forward, we will talk to the alaska senator and the chances of a deal coming soon. once upon a time, there was a house speaker and a president who could dine together and cut deals. it wasn't that long ago. today's leaders can learn from tip and the beginner. welcome to washington. today we recognize columbus day. it's "the daily rundown" and let's get to the first read of the morning. three days until the country hits the borrowing limit and we had another wasted weekend. just as difficult as knowing when it surrender. republicans are frustrated because they believe democrats are not ready to accept their conditions. the senate talks broke down after they rejettinged a plan drafted by susan collins gaining a bit of momentum. >> susan colins is one of my favorite senators, democrat or republican. the plan she suggested and i have seen in writing is not going to go anyplace at this stage. >> i was very surprised when senator reid said that. i don't know why he said it and the fact is we have a responsibility to govern. we are continuing to talk. >> collins' proposal would have funded the government at sequestration levels and required former negotiations to extend the debt ceiling through the end of march and move back to january. it included a few sweeteners. the repeal of the tax. they wanted to tighten income verification rules for the health care exchanges. they suggested for the timeline for funding that moens the second round of sequestration cuts would have gone into effect. they want the sequestration to last through mid-november and before they give the gop anything on health care, they expect a larger spending number. after mitch mcconnell made it clear he would accept the plan, he blamed reid for walking away. they all pushed back this a statement disputing a bipartisan deal was accepted if reid would accept it. the minimum demand with no strings attached should not be counted as concession. >> they are not doing us a favor by opening the government. they are not doing us a favor by the debt ceiling. this is not a concession. >> senate republicans believe democrats could threaten a deal by getting greedy with the terms of surrender. >> our democratic friends keep moving the goal post thinking they are winning and saying what they thought was weakness also moved to the place. they tried to humiliate republicans and things change in american politics and i know what it's like to be in the minority and majority and it won't be forgotten. >> one, the senate does come to the rescue with the proposal the most likely vehicle for a deal. but changed around quite a bit or two, if negotiations in the senate collapse say by the end of tomorrow, speaker boehner simply puts a clean debt ceiling extension and attaches it to the bill he has from the senate and puts it on the house floor and allows them to pass them. those are the two realistic ways out. the only certain way is default. boehner and congressman ryan might have been offering democrats a better deal than collins put on the table, getting rid of spending levels in exchange for entitlement changes and cuts, but they have house republicans that fell apart because of trust issues. the white house doesn't trust boehner to deliver the vote and reid won't accept anything they offer. frankly even if it's a mother's day resolution. that's how bad things are between boehner and reid. any deal they cut with house republicans won't be acceptable to their own base. while the non-tea party republicans are trying to end the standoff, the tea party republicans are doing everything they can to keep it alive. ted cruz and former alaska governor sarah palin decided to go to a rally at the world war ii memorial. feuding protesters clashed with police every time non-tea party republicans explain, they may have these folks to blame. >> our vets have proven that they have not been timid. so we will not be timid in calling out any who have used our military, our vets as pawns in the political gain. >> why is the federal government spending money to erect barricades to keep veterans out of this memorial? our veterans should be above politics. enough games. >> you have to laugh when you hear him say enough games considering how we got into this mess. the idea that they created the shut down by demanning the health care law be delayed are sparking outrage. that's not the definition of irony, i don't know what is. ted is calling for the end of games. a rich solution to the standoff. the spending victories of the last two years are victories for the gop and should declare that and move on. the pressure from is not going to give boehner or connell any cover from it's one more example of how the tea party has been a net negative for the republicans post 2010. gave them the enthusiasm to win the house and what's it done since. members of the senate manage to make a deal or should the country default on the debt for the first time in history? he serves on the appropriations committee. good morning to you. >> thank you very much. that was great analysis and it seems like 48 hours. >> is it as wasted as it looks to me? >> i don't think so and here's why. a lot of people were talking even though it was an up and down weekend. a lot of discussion and what's the right move. the fact is that democrats and republicans are talking. americans would love to see it resolved and discussions run back and forth. the discussions are respectful and we need to keep that in mind. it's an important part of getting them back to work. >> what part of the plan can you accept? >> the biggest challenge is you look at the dates. it seems like and i know you have been watching politics for a long time, it seems like all we do is start and go, start and go and stop and then we stop and never get going on a long-term deal. we just extend to january, we will be back in the middle of this. why don't we bring forward all the appropriations bills and let's have the knock down debate over that and lose the bills and be done with the year's budget. i have concern over the short-term aspects. it is disrupting the markets and small business people. think about it. every day you came in. >> i understand it, but let me stop you there. you can't work out a large budget deal in the next 48 hours. you have to avoid default. >> i agree, but if you sit here and say well, we are going to come up with another plan to keep it for a few more weeks without a long-term decision saying we are going to have a decision for the long-term budget and appropriation bills, we will never get it done. the fact is i had a hearing last friday. i had crabber who is can't get the firm in. this is ridiculous. i hear what you are saying. not that we had since early spring. we had a budget proposal. this whole idea that i heard, i couldn't see the visual. thinking there will be pay back and let's get over the politics and get on with the show. all of us have to give a little. short-term doles are destructive. >> i get it, but you passed a short-term deal already. >> i understand that, but that's a short-term deal. the white house wants to get this past the holiday because of concern of economic and consumer confidence into the holiday shopping season. that's one part of the plan they liked that it takes you into january. do you think january is too short? >> think about it. in january we are off at the end of the year for christmas and don't get back to the 6th or 7th or 11th. martin luther king day. it gets messed up into that process of time. i think we need to extend it out further so there is a better process here. this again is a ridiculous way to do the business. i hear you, chuck. can you not get a long-term deal here? the answer is you could. if people sit down and will have to give a little. that's the way it works in alaska. >> there was an article in national journal about how ted cruz never reached out to you. he never reached out and sat down. let me ask you. are you open to delaying the individual mandate as to thatting among the proposals that mike and ted cruz are pushing? are you open to delaying the individual mandate a year? >> no, i'm not, but i have four or five proposals about how to deal with the health care law that z imperfectihave imperfect need to be fixed. after all those hours on the floor, coming from a red state democrat, i work with a lot of republicans are many issues. for some reason they didn't want to walk across the aisle and saying here's ideas for you. let's open the government and get the nation to default and i'm happy to do it. look at the imperfections and see where they can fix it. >> thanks for coming on this morning. coming up, things from the other side of the aisle. roger wicker will be here to talk about what he sees as the sticking point and what he is willing to do to get it done. how senator connell's tea party trouble and battle in kentucky is changing the game on capitol hill. first a lock at the politics planner. a big columbus day parade is a political fest. everybody is going to make sure they march carefully in that. at some point will we stop celebrating columbus day? 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[ female announcer ] only aveeno daily moisturizing lotion has an active naturals oat formula that creates a moisture reserve so skin can replenish itself. aveeno® naturally beautiful results. if washington can't reach a deal on the debt ceiling, wall street might force the issue. features are down triple-digits and the closer we get to thursday without an agreement, the more pressure the markets are like low to put on washington. roger wicker is the republican deputy and a member of the budget committee. good morning to you. >> happy columbus day to you, chuck. >> let me start with the status of the talks. what part of the plan do you not like and what part do you think you can accept? >> i like the collins plan, but i'm reluctant to negotiate in public. i think we have a process going between the senate leaders and i'm hopeful we can have something meaningful by the end of the day. i like repeal of the medical device tax better than delay. i think we are in the ballpark. it's real iistic and involves snag is worked from. what is unrealistic is this idea of exceeding the spending caps. if that is part of what harry reid is asking for, we are in for a long seat. if defunding obama care is an overreach for republicans, exceeding the spending caps that have lowered spending for the first time since the korean war. that is a non-starter. >> explain this to me. explain to me about january. you have 988 which the senate democrats agreed to. my guess is the white house it sounds like are part of the collins plan. they wanted to stop it before sequestration kicked in. they wanted to see if there was room to negotiate. why not do this until mid-january and use that to negotiate what you top the do on spending. why is there a health care thing on the laws stuck to them? >> let me turn that around. we have fine votes in the united states and to repeal the medical device tax and not delay, 79 senators, republicans and democrats voted to repeal the tax. it is not going to work. it is not popular. >> where do you get the money you lose on the medical device tax? >> there a number of revenue enhancers and papers that can come out of the budget exitee. that's not a problem. the problem is that there seems to be giving anything on obama care even something 79 senators have voted for on a test basis. >> do you understand why democrats think why should they give into anything for something that is temporary and wait to negotiate on a larger deal? >> i can understand as the debating point or negotiating point, i understand that. the fact is the government has been shut down for almost two weeks and people are hurting. there sweet spots. the republicans and democrats agree on. we need to get past this. let me reiterate a clean cr. a spending cr that reopens the government and that means keeping current law. that's the sequestration budget caps. we want to move that around. i'm all for going to the budget conference, but we will not agree to anything that has been those hard-earned savings we got in 2011. >> it's the minimum to you. if that's all that got out of that and clean lebt limit while you had the larger negotiation, sounds like you support that. >> i am a deputy and i want to give the leader all the room he needs and i am declining at this point to negotiate with chuck todd on that. i like the out lines of the collins plan. i think she is headed in the right direction and i appreciate the senator helping with that. >> sorry this going to happen before wednesday? >> i hope so, but listen. if we go past wednesday, it's not a default. -it is going past a deadline. we will not default any time soon on the debt. >> republican. senator roger wicker, thank you for coming on this morning. more first read up next. the deadline. what does it actually mean? the u.s. may run out of money to pay their bills. when will we feel the default fallout? we will explain. our friends simpson and bowles are back. they have a new ad out. wait until you hear this running in kentucky. how many current senators were serving in the senate the last time there was a government shut down. the first person to tweet the correct answer will get the on air shout out. bl who are we? we are the thinkers. the job jugglers. the up all-nighters. and the ones who turn ideas into action. we've made our passions our life's work. we strive for the moments where we can say, "i did it!" ♪ we are entrepreneurs who started it all... with a signature. legalzoom has helped start over 1 million businesses, turning dreamers into business owners. and we're here to help start yours. back with a little more first read. we are three days away from the unprecedented and potentially catastrophic default. the biggest impact will not come on october 17th, but unfold over the coming days and weeks. let's make this clear. thursday is not the day the u.s. defalls, but the day after the u.s. will have just $30 billion left in the cover to pay bills with no ability to borrow more. the government's daily spending to be as high as 60 billion $ and what's more, some big bills are coming due. wednesday the u.s. will host $12 billion. the first three such payments over the next month. you have federal employees owed $3 billion in salary. those kinds of payments would amount to a technical default. on october 31st, $6 billion in interest payments are due on debt, failing to pay off creditors is that could do major damage to america's financial standing in the world. the u.s. might be able to pay that if it gives the other payments. as the senator said, even if we pass the deadline, it's not a technical default. >> we bring in $250 billion a month and have $20 billion in interest payments. there is no reason ever to default and a good leader would say we will never default. we should never miss a payment. not raising the debt ceiling means you have to balance your budget and not default. >> jack lew said picking and choosing what bills to pay is default by another name. on "meet the press," the managing director said it won't prevent damage to america's good name. >> creative accounting is not the solution. markets know that. the counterparts to the united states know that. you have to honor the signature. you have to give sovereignty to the rest of the world. >> whether or not you can last until november 1st, the u.s. seeps certain to run out of money at that point. period. $67 billion of bills are due from the military salaries as well as social security. 12 billion more is due on november 13th and we will owe another 30 billion november 15th. a payment so large it would likely be impossible to cover. while we should point out there is a reason it's hard to pin down, because of the amount of money varies by the day. the president may be as low as $3 billion one day and higher another. that's the reason it's hard to nail down. it never happens. analyst and political editor for the grio. the chief correspondent for "the washington post." welcome, all. we have a little tv ad i want to play. is a tv ad and first with simpson bowles. let me play a little of that ad. >> for crying out loud, who is not fed up for what's going on in washington. >> these politicians are playing games and jerking our country from crisis to crisis. it's going to take real political courage to focus and work together. >> they are not the only ones who are angry. let me play this radio ad. >> angry with washington? so am i. this is mitch mcconnell. we all agree this government shut down is a disgrace and it's hurting our country. >> everybody is angry. >> maybe somebody will do something. >> obviously mitch mcconnell has his book of a primary and a general. that message could play with both audiences, but it's clear the politics turned pretty big against the republicans. the question now is what is the deal looking like and do democrats know how to declare victory? >> that's the question of the morning. we spent the weekend talking about the damage this has done to the republican party. it's clear they would like to figure out a way out of this. the question is, will the democrats figure out a harsh way out for the republicans or give them a little bit of a soft landing and over the weekend everything we saw was that the democrats are trying to extract the maximum gains. >> what was interesting and i'm sure you had the same sort of push back from the white house that i did. confiscating momentum and all of a sudden the white house will sit there going to harry reid and accept things there we had not accepted. the house republicans are offering us a better dole. what are you doing? >> absolutely. i think for the white house, you can understand why they are taking this hard line. we will get short-term deals and you are looking at the spending levels and we don't know what it is for democrats. they are at maximum leverage and get as muchs they can. they don't feel like they need to give away things. if you look at the polling, you can understand why they feel like they will stick to the hard lineup until the deadline. >> there is confusion about where republicans united. senate republicans seem to be united on the issue about the sequestration number and what their line in the sand is. it was about health care. they admitted we overreach on that. don't overreach on the spending caps. >> republicans want something. they want a big leap on the health care law. they went from repeal to a two-year delay. they want something out of the health care law. the view that the law should stay as it is. with the ceiling with the health care law. >> watching the senate work, we assumed it would come up with something, but why am i less confident now? something is not sticking together. >> in part because i think the senate republicans think they moved the goal post and it's difficult when the relationship between harry reid and mitch mcconnell think they will easily get to a deal. everybody does this and what senator reid said is they will get to it, but it's a rocky road. >> what do house republican dos right now? paul ryan is defiant this morning. you hear him saying anything that -- no part of the deal does he think is acceptable. that's a recipe for potential disaster. >> this is where the huge unknown is. you can get the deal and that is possibly going to be difficult to fuel over the next three days. if you don't get a large number of republicans that back that deal, does boehner feel any incentive to put it on the floor. they will be facing a lot of pressure. >> got it. >> to see what the deal is with president obama and the house republicans are. >> president obama and mitch connell are agreeing to the same deal, how does boehner walk away. >> the majority will not be there. >> you guys are sticking around and will talk about the first place this impacted big time. the market is just opened. it is down. red arrows almost down 100 points. we talked to a lot of market people and they say tomorrow could be the day that the markets start expressing their disdain for what's going on here. we will see if the markets are open for the holiday. if not, tomorrow is a full operating day. we will take a deep dive into the day when deals could get done on the hill. it is another era. you are watching "the daily rundown" only on msnbc. [ mom ] with my little girl, every food is finger food. so i can't afford to have germy surfaces. but a fresh sheet of bounty duratowel leaves this surface cleaner than a germy dishcloth. it's durable. and it's 3 times cleaner. so ditch your dishcloth and switch to bounty duratowel. >> we are delving into the inner workings of a friendship and how leaders from different parties got things done. the vibe is chilly between president obama and speaker boehner with a debt deadline looping. it's a contrast between the warmth of two irish guys in the early 80s. reagan and o'neal managed to make a deal on a controversial bill when they had a 30 rail and spent hours on loud negotiations. they got the president to agree to a job in the process. with all of that going on, watch how they handle the bill signing ceremony. >> bob claude pepper and dip o'neal. they date back to the beginning of the world trade center to celebrate his 69th birthday and even gave him a gag gift. >> when we have any moments when you really would like to use that on me, lots of golf balls with my name on it. >> even on tax cuts and so-called reaganomics, o'neal tried to give the president the benefit of the doubt saying he doesn't realize the severity of his cuts. if he knew, he wouldn't go that far. he managed to make political headway. what's missing between john boehner today? author of the new book. >> this is the one i kept. your own diary. >> this is just that one year. let's start this off with the picture you tried to paint of reagan and o'neal and how they decided they invited him to the white house. they went to the theater today and even though tip o'neal is there. that in itself, the boehners and the obamas having dinner alone at it is white house. >> after the fighting, they were in it together. in many ways, the choef strategist said always ready to talk. you have to deal with your kids and be able to talk. the st. patrick's day party and the joke trading. reagan would get on the phone and say can you reset your watch? he said we were friends. there was a lot of patriotism involved. >> i always thought that the one true big difference twoon that era and this one, we had this debate on the air with two parties that were diverse. one of the reasons i could argue and you essentially are writing and you make this argument in this book, tip o'neal had to work with reagan. tip oneill lost badly and he had no choice. you didn't have that between boehner and obama. >> there is one principal which is respect the voter. he lost massachusetts to reagan. he took that seriously. he thought we had president at a time and decided when reagan came into office, he would give him the schedule. he decided to have all votes of the tax cuts and spending cuts and said no gains. you get your schedule. he wanted to put them back. >> he saw it and i'm surprised when it comes to health care. this is his agenda. let him have it and see what the voters think of it in a year. he thought the voters would reject it. >> 26 of the 33 seats he lost with back by the strategy and letting reagan have the responsibility. a lot of it was a sense of arguing about the facts on the table. is there a debt default coming? they accept it. >> they were debating the facts. >> now we don't have the same page. i think in the old days there was a fight and a deal and happiness. you saw this wonderful picture. >> the signing ceremony. >> i don't think there will be a signing ceremony all smiles like this sitting behind president obama. maybe a manager's day resolution and i'm convinced of that. >> each of these guys look better. that's interesting. he looked better and oneill looked better for taking on reagan. what are the job ratings? 8%? >> the presidency try to beat 50% or 60% presidents. you want to win the approval of people who won't vote for you. let me go back to this issue. ronald reagan needed democrats to win reelection. he needed those folks on his side. he had incentive to work with them. >> he was a liberal republican. >> if tip oneill didn't want to lose too many, he didn't want a lot of phil grants. they switched parties. he wanted to keep it southern democrats. he had that. >> one thing in north and south besides thomas jefferson. they did in the south. there were conservatives on fiscal policy and a war. they believed the same thing. they believed the meals on wheels and social security and medicare. >> there is so much about this book that says more about you than anything else. my favorite chapter was chapter 7 when you spent so much time about reagan's movies. you are such a movie buff from that era. it was pouring out. ronald reagan, what kind of actor do you think he was? >> i saw success in theater more than an actor. the big thing about the moves is the notre dame subway alumni. my uncle charles and aunt kathleen got married and neither went to college through notre dame, but that's the underground. they were called reagan democrats. >> my other favorite thing was not reagan, but the man who recommended chuck coleson was who? >> tip onei, well l. . >> you have to read the book. tip oneill. so much fun to read. the book is tip and the beginner. he is killing it right now. still to come, how this can cost them the governor's race. the white house soup of the day, we are still sitting in turkey chili. 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[ hans ] warm, flakey, gooey. toaster strudel! >> just 17 of the current u.s. senators are serving in the u.s. senate today that were there for the last government shut down. 83 of the sitting senators are first-timers when it comes to shut down politics. congratulations to today's winner. send your suggests to msnbc.com. this was the top song in 1995. of providing a free world-class education for anyone, anywhere. if you look at a khan academy video, they cover everything from basic arithmetic to calculus, trigonometry, finance. you can really just get what you need at your own pace. and so, bank of america came and reached out to us and said, "we are really interested in making sure that everyone really understands personal finance." we're like, "well, we're already doing that." and so it was kind of a perfect match. well, in virginia, ken cuccinelli's team insists the governor's race isn't over yet. he seems to sense the race is slipping away launching what's really a scorched earth ad at his democratic opponent, terry mcauliffe. >> court documents revealed terry mcauliffe invested in an insurance scam that preyed on dying people. they stole the identities of the terminally ill, then cashed in when they passed away, profiting off the terminally ill, is that the kind of man you want as your governor? >> that's got a lot of air time over the weekend and gotten so bad for cuccinelli that the entire democratic ticket is running against him. here's the attorney general candidate, who is trying to tie his republican opponent to the cuccinelli brand. >> the if you think ken cuccinelli would take virginia in the wrong direction, wait until you meet his attorney general candidate, senator obenshain. together, a dangerously wrong turn for virginia. >> let's bring back my gaggle, perry make on, julie pace, dan balz. not surprising. i think ken cuccinelli had -- he has a whole bunch of outside events going against him. he was starting off ideologically against him. now you see this stuff republicans is piling on. >> the shutdown is not helping him. the demographics of virginia are moving to where it's almost a blue state and now, yes, you have republicans sort of signaling he's going to lose before he's even lost which never helps you when you're trying to turn out your base in a race that you might lose. >> what struck me was that attorney general ad. you know your polls aren't incorrect when you start seeing that. the democratic candidate, these down ticket guys are always trying to stand out, if they want to stand out on their own, do think their nominee is popular or run against the other nominee. clearly this guy thinks there is gold to be panned by running against cuccinelli. >> this race does have national implications because of the profile of ken cuccinelli and what republicans can do or not do in terms of trying to win swing states, purple states and the nominees they have and there are implications for that with 2016. >> julie, the "washington post" story did a good job showing this tea party/nontea party divide in the republican party. john boehner is trying to prevent a civil war from breaking out inside his own party. then you understand his decisions. this is what happened in virginia. they nominated a ticket that was too conservative for the state and they may go down and go 0 for 3 for the first time since 1989. >> and the question will be what does the republican party take away from that outcome? >> they know what it is. >> they do. >> but are they willing to confront it. >> to do anything to change that. i was struck in the "post" piece, there were so many lines in there that reminded me of mitt romney's election. it just feels like maybe the lessons haven't been learned and we'll see what happens in 2014. >> if you look at this tea party divide, this all took place -- republican primaries created this mess, right, their inability to deal with this in the primary. the david dewhurst beaten ted cruz and had bob bennett held off mike lee, let's just look at those two, they are the architects of this strategy. do we think bob bennett and david dewhurst would be shutting down the government? >> bob bennett, of course not. david dewhurst, we don't know. but you saw ted cruz yesterday during that protest, you saw he's saying the shutdown is about politics and other people are driving the shutdown as opposed to him. very rich statement that he made and that shows where we are right now. >> no government shutdown would have been focused on what, dan balz? >> the affordable care act. you can't write the plot and hollywood would have turned it down. here's a crazy way republicans will snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. >> shameless plug, my sister and new brother-in-law just got married, back from their honeymoon. wishing them a lot of luck in their marriage. >> change in your family. >> yeah. julie, jill and jim. >> great piece in the "washington post" on reid and mcconnell and it told you about a lot of why congress doesn't work. >> i was going to say if those two senate leaders aren't getting along, we have a problem. congratulations to taylor brownstein, my young friend who just finished army ranger school. >> no kidding? very impress ichlt that's it for this edition of "the daily rundown." tomorrow on the show a journey to the center of the political universe. we've got some ground-breaking date on the american electorate. the whole show will be dedicated and you will understand how this washington doesn't represent the american public. coming up next, chris jansing. bye-bye. 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