Republicans that would say they would join democrats. Speaker boehner said it is not true and its open to interpretation if it went on floor. A lot on capitol hill think it would be true and the president offering that challenge. Where you see the both sides now, toure, they are staking out positions, president obama says he will not negotiate on a grand bargain or large scale compromise until the government is funded and debt limit is raised and Speaker Boehner saying thats not a position to have. Take a listen to what he said on the house floor. The president s refusal to negotiate is hurting our economy and putting our country at risk. American people expect when their leaders have differences, were in a time of crisis, that well sit down and at least have a conversation. Really, mr. President , its time to have that conversation before our economy is put further at risk. So here we are on monday, toure and back to where we started last week. Both sides holding firm in their positions. Whats going to be interesting as we move forward, harry reid wants to put a clean debt limit extension as later in week. How many votes that will get. And john boehner has said repeatedly to his colleagues that he wants to avoid a debt limit catastrophe that would cause a default. They dont want to go down that road by any means. The question becomes is john boehner extract any concession from the white house in order to extend the debt limit and fund the government . So far democrats are saying they dont want to engage in that because it sets a precedent for House Republicans to use government funding to extract things. Thats where it is. Where it ends, nobody knows. If anybody says they know, they are full of it. Weve had millions of theories, i can tell you from talking to the rank in file republicans, they do not see any way forward to get the government funded or to get the debt limit extended in to solely republican votes. Its unclear from president obama will get Speaker Boehner to do that. Its a gloomy monday here and gloom y prospect. You talk about how gloomy things are on the hill. One last quick question, what do you think youll see first, an end to the shutdown or Buffalo Bills winning another Football Game . The Buffalo Bills play october 13th against the bengals with a quarterback whos a duke graduate bengals are way better. Luke russert, thanks again. Harry reid calling senator cruz, the new quote, joint speaker of the house, saying elehelecheleh the house on occasion and saying hes hooking for obama care leverage in any debt ceiling deal. In my view the debt ceiling, we should look for three things. Number one, we should look for some significant structural plan to reduce government spending. Number two, we should avoid new taxes and number three, look for ways to mitigate the harms from obama care. You think that some facet of the president S Health Care plan should be attached to an increase in the debt ceiling . The debt ceiling historically has been among the best leverage that congress has to reign in the executives so, yes . Yes, yes. Wow. Cruz was backed up by fellow shutdown supporter florida congressman ted yoho, youre seeing the tremor before the tsunami here, im not going to raise the debt ceiling and added, i think personally think it would bring stability to the world markets. Wow. A check on the markets show they are all down. Jonathan allen at the Washington Post, the Washington Post bureau chief at politico is up right now. Ted cruz seems to be doubling down in the insanity and telling us this thing is nowhere near over . Your words not mine, toure. But i believe this is nowhere near over. You mentioned ted yoho and yolo, hes taking a risk that republicans will only live once in terms of political fates if theres a debt ceiling crisis. And they are blamed by the american public. Similarly for the president if he ends taking the blame, that could hurt his legacy. Omg, i love seeing you use yolo in your political analysis. Its a rainy monday in washington, what can i do . You have to find the freshness where you can get it. What i want to ask you about specifically is john cornyn who is the whip of the republicans in the senate. And take a look at what he just said, ill read to you, on the question of a clean debt ceiling he said never has happened and never is going to happen. That was just this week. Earlier this year in january he said well raise the debt ceiling, were not going to default on our debt. I will tell you unequivocally were not going to default. How do we go from this republican senator in january unequivocally saying were not going to default and now saying not only the opposite, the opposite plus the word never, which is not something youre supposed to use in reasonable negotiations. Youre seeing a Senate Republican leader who earlier believed the best strategy for his party was to raise the debt ceiling without actually going into default. Then transitioning as he found out his caucus wasnt with him on that. There are a lot of republican senators that at least want to attach something to a debt ceiling increase. I dont think there are very many people in the capitol if any who want to see a default. That said where they prioritize raising debt ceiling behind other issues is another question. And i think for some of them defunding obama care in particular is a more important issue. Getting something as one congressman said last week without defining what the something was is more important. So they dont want to be disrespected, jonathan, you can get that, right . Why not hold the whole country hostage and credit rating, its all about respect at the end of the day. You were writing about the conventional shutdown wisdom that wasnt. A lot of people were very confident how this was going to play out and youre pointing out it hasnt played out the way many predicted. One piece of that is conventional wisdom was the house gop is ruled by wall street, once wall street got upset they would have to make a deal. We havent seen that yet, but do you think the dynamic might change. The Washington Post is reporting Tea Party Congressman could be potentially facing a primary not from the right, not from the further right tea party but from a governance establishment that actually wants to see the country function . Do you think thats a broader trend we could see . I think democrats and some republicans have wanted to see that for a long time funded moderate candidates against conservatives. That said, im not sure its going to work and its a Small Laboratory in one particular district with the congressman whose voting record is unique to say the least. He votes present a lot. I do think theres a situation that washington has failed to grasp, both democrats and republicans. For the longest time it was considered obvious that the republicans were close to wall street and big business and that would drive their party. What you saw i think from the day that t. A. R. P. Vote failed on house floor in 2008 on is a stronger vein of populism that rejects big institutions, wall street or the government here in washington. Jonathan, the question is, what price will republicans have to pay for this come 2014 . A new polling does suggest that the Government Shutdown may be hurting the gop and some of these republican controlled districts as we know until now safe districts. Democrats need to pick up 17 of those and its based on these results if the election were held today, a pickup is actually within reach for democrats. Jonathan, shouldnt the possibility of losing the house be of serious concern for republicans . I think its something that should be of concern to republicans or any party that holds control of the chamber. But one of the reasons were seeing this fight play out now instead of at the end of the year last year 2012 or before then in the same terms, i think more than a year removed from an election. There will be a lot of politics to play out before 2014. As far as the polling goes, it maybe the republicans are more vulnerable than they would have been otherwise however they are being matched against generic opposition candidates. If in fact that happened, maybe things would move more smoothly. That would be nice. I dont think youll see republican punished for this, well see them rewarded but well dig into that more in the next blog can i clarify, i meant it would be smoother if generic congressional candidates were elected period, not that set in the 17th district. A plus hit from you as usual. Well take a trip across town to get the view from the white house and talk inside the beltway manual, the options to work all of this out as i wonder what is going on. Whats going on 20 years with the company. Thousands of presentations. And one hard earned partnership. It took a lot of work to get this far. So now im supposed to take a back seat when it comes to my investments . Theres zero chance of that happening. Avo when you work with a schwab financial consultant, youll get the guidance you need with the control you want. Talk to us today. [ male announcer ] lets go places. But lets be ready. Lets do our homework. Lets look out for each other. Lets look both ways before crossing. Lets remember whats important. Lets be optimistic. But just in case lets be ready. Toyota. Lets go places, safely. And zero heartburn is awesome. Just like zero cutlery. And you cant beat zero. [ male announcer ] prilosec otc is the number one doctor recommended frequent heartburn medicine for 8 straight years. One pill each morning. 24 hours. Zero heartburn. President was supposed to be in asia today for the apec meeting but hes stuck in washington as Congress Holds the economy hostage. Chief without correspondent and daily rundown Host Chuck Todd is with us. The president is putting pressure on congress to act. Usually the closer you get to the deadline you start to see some cracks and cooler heads prevail. But it seems were moving in the opposite direction this time. Re. Reporter rea torically it does feel that way at times. If you read between the lines of what the president said and you combine that and couple with it what jay carney said at the briefing, you start to see what the white house is basically offering boehner a get out of jail free card in this whole shutdown mess that were in right now. First of all, let me play a little bit of what the president said today at fema. Take a listen. Theres not a subject that im not willing to engage in. What ive said is that i cannot do that under the threat that if republicans dont get 100 of their way their going to shut down the government or they are going to default on americas debt. What were not willing to do is create a permanent pattern in which unless you get your way, the government is shut down or america defaults. Reporter so they are in intractable positions. Boehner is not reopening the government until the president is willing to negotiate and white house says they are not going to negotiate anything until the republicans reopen government and raise the debt ceiling. Well, we tried to pin jay carney down and ask him how long . What is it you want . You want it to be clean but is there a period of time . Is it six weeks, a year, three months . What is it youre looking for. Carney would not be pinned down on a specific time period. What does that mean . The cooling off period you can see the compromise is sitting there waiting to be had. You do a six, eightweek clean spending bill and clean raise in the debt ceiling. After this period you have a forced conversation that everybody claims they want to have. If does feel as if boehner wanted to find a way out that allowed him to keep his claim that he stuck to his guns and that the white house would feel as if they stuck to their guns, its all sitting right there. Nobody seems to want to grab it. Let me get you to weigh in. Do you think out of this the house will end upturning blue . Reporter its hard to figure it out how it happens but i wouldnt rule it out. The map is a mess as far as how its gerrymandered and how selfinsulated some of these members are. But it isnt it wouldnt take much, right . They only need they dont need 35 seats, 40 seats. I think they only need 15 or 16 when all is said and done. Could you see that scenario . I think you could. If if things really went off the cliff and the economy went down and the republicans are bearing the brunt, look, i think there are more swing voters than we sometimes give voters credit for. It would mean democrats would have to win the quote unquote generic ballot by eight or nine or ten points but that happens in wave elections. Its more possible than some people give it credit for. Chuck todd with the depressing message that the solution may be rescheduling this mess for six weeks down the road. I want to bring in time magazines mike grun wald, the new new deal, now out in paperback. Mike, i want to start with your book. Sort of the central these sis is that the Obama Presidency and stimulus act was transformational than its being given credit for. Are republicans undermining the progress with their hamstringing of the Obama Presidency, under mining the progress that you saw made in the first term . Remember in the book i described how even before Obama Took Office there was secret meetings where Congressional Republicans on the house side led by eric cantor and senate side by Mitch Mcconnell were plotting their conspiracy to be this party of no. Were going to fight everything this guy does, even though at the time that took a lot of guts, at the time he was pretty popular. Few Million People on the mall saying yes we can. They realized most americans dont follow the day to day what happens in washington. They see are they getting along or are they kind of still the same old dysfunctional mess . And one party can make sure its still a same old dysfunctional mess. And thats happened again and again with the lame duck deal and the fiscal cliff and the sequester and the shutdown and now the default. Its it happens again and again. Theres no reason to think its going to change. As they say, dont write a tweet you wouldnt want read on national tv. As the old saying goes. I created myself. You tweet, obama is so on stin at he wont even discuss underscoring the absurdity of this. There are a number of people asking where is the white house, theres been a real lack of leadership and lack of involvement from the president. We heard Chris Matthews speak on our show last week and heres Chris Matthews back in august. The key political asset is the ability to sit in a room with four or five other people and accept the leadership. He doesnt have that. He never developed, a love, thats the right word, love of politics and other politicians to sit around and play cards and get to know them. Nuances and how to get to them, their hooks and triggers and buttons and figure out how to work with some of them. Obama is good at golf, but maybe he needs to get better at playing cards . Its probably a correct analysis of obama but im not sure how this gets fixed over cards. This is obama has already given in on the funding levels from the sequester . The reason that the United States isnt europe right now is because we didnt adopt the extreme austerity that you saw abroad in 2009 and 2010. But now hes kind of giving in on the absolute spending levels. The idea that at a time when the republicans saying, we want to keep the government open and not default on our debt and obama is saying, i want to keep the government open and not default on debt. Why should he say, what do you want in exchange for doing that . Its hard to see how that could be a really productive discussion. Mike, obviously Chris Matthews has forgotten about politics than i will ever know. I cant stand when anybody brings about if only obama were more charming or played month are golf with them. Ari did a fantastic piece, obama has played golf with many people and govelfing is not the proble. He play eed poker with folks in chicago. Everyone knows the answer is to play twister together. Have they tried that yet . Tell me, mike, have they tried that yet . The real problem is the idealogical polarization in this country is higher than any time than the civil war. Theres almost no intersection between the coalition that elected the president and the one that elected the majority in the house. We only have 17 representatives in the house in districts that obama won. And most of those are still in safe red districts. So that is the problem here really. Thats right. Most of the republicans in congress, right, they are readi reading on the 2012 election is we won, im still here. They have to worry about a tea Party Challenge from the right. That makes it very difficult. After theyve spent the last four or five years running around talking about this crazy socialist in the white house who is a monster and tyrant, its hard to say ive done this wonderful deal and it will move the country forward. It makes it very difficult, ultimately i think probably obama will have to offer some kind of fake concession. Boehner will have to accept it and pretend hes actually won something. And then well like krystal said come back and do it again in a couple of months. You cant get to a deal without a clear policy goal, you cant negotiate a contract unless both know what they want. Let me read you a quote. Enactment of a cr would contain 64 billion in less spending compared to the current funding levels president obama signed into law a mere five months ago, he would be endorsing a level of spending that wipes away all of the increases he and democrats made while in charge and returns us to pre2008 levels of discretionary spending. Take a guess. Its probably a republican leader because theyve been saying this all along. Its just like during the 2012 election, when they ran against obamas medicare cuts then two weeks later they were arguing in the fiscal cliff it was eric cantor one month ago, a republican leader in the house. What do you do this is our last question. What do you do with someone like that, i want x and we give you x and then he says, no i want Something Else . How do you know the next thing you g