implications and then the domestic, political side of it here in america. for that we have two people who know. former white house mideast adviser, ambassador mark ginsburg. for the politics of it all, dana millbank. first to you, ambassador. american aid to egypt is about $1.5 billion a year, but $1.3 billion of that goes immediately back into american private corporations defense contractors for egypt to buy weapons. just cutting off aid to egypt isn't exactly the answer because that would have a negative impact on america. >> toure, there's so much naval gazing going on with this foreign policy issue it seems we're getting totally lost in the weeds here. the fact of the matter is that the egyptian generals do not need this $1.3 billion or $1.5 billion. whatever is left in the pipeline for the rest of this fiscal year is about $300 million. the saudis and others have said they will step in and fill the gap in. let me tell you, it's just a matter of time before vladimir putin says to the egyptians, guess what, russia will step in and fill whatever the americans don't provide here. we have to stand up for our values. if we want to suspend aid, that's the main reason. it will have no bearing on the decision making of the generals who have already dismissed what the obama administration has to say to them. >> dana, strong comments from the ambassador there. the washington side from you if we stop giving aid to egypt, then, yes, vladimir putin might come in. then we lose a key ally or change a key ally in that important region. so what has washington got to consider here? >> well, the ambassador was talking about how it all is naval gazing. that, of course, is the great national past time here in the capital. i've just left today's white house briefing that was dominated by that very question of what will happen to that aid. as you would expect, they're making no commitment one way or the other. found many ways to deflect that over the hour. the good news, perhaps, is that congress is still out of session for another few weeks, so no decision actually needs to be made. they won't be forcing anybody's hand. they can wait and see how things develop here. there was no appetite for suspending aid before this most recent crackdown, as we saw on the hill before they left town. obviously, this could change. it seems to me that the administration is saying, all right, we've got a little breathing room, not in terms of the violence, but in terms it of the political calculation not to do anything right now. >> well, and speaking of cutting aid, ambassador, richard engel spoke about this, about the implications of cutting aid on "meet the press" on sunday. let's take a listen. >> the camp david accord's brokered by the united states. the peace agreement between israel and egypt says in principle that u.s. aid should be commensurate between israel and -- from washington to israel and from washington to egypt. does the united states really want to be the first country that breaks the spirit of the camp david accords, whether it is breaking the law or not, it would certainly be seen here as breaking the spirit. >> well, ambassador, you mentioned earlier that they actually don't need the aid, but aren't there other political implications here snr i mean, if you cut off the aid, wouldn't that suggest we are supporting the muslim brotherhood? is that what we want? >> that's exactly the bind we got ourselves into because there was great consternation within egypt that we seem to have made our bed with the muslim brotherhood and we've lost that bet. the muslim brotherhood, for whatever may have been the reasons why we supported them, at least when i say supported them, involved politically with them, they afterall had the presidency. now the presidency has changed again. there will be new elections inevitably in the future. the israels, the saudi, and all of our key middle east allies are besieging washington to encourage us to stay close to it the military as the only institution in egypt that can restore some degree of stability in egypt. fact of the matter is, when you play all this out, we're going to turn the clock back to see where egypt was in the ely '80s after the assassination of the president. there will be an unfortunate tendency of the brotherhood to go underground and report to terrorism. the military will crackdown and we'll see a period of violence in egypt, but we'll nevertheless place our bets once again with the egyptian military. >> you mentioned the role of israel in all this, an important american ally. "the new york times" today reporting that israeli ambassadors -- i'm going to read from the article -- in washington, london, paris, berlin, and other capitals are lobbying foreign ministers arguing that rule by the egyptian military is the only hope to prevent further chaos in cairo and concerns about democracy and human rights should take a backseat to stability and security. dana, thinking about that role there, why is it that the sort of foreign policy and national security thimperatives there in congress that often cares a lot about what israel thinks are currently taking a backseat to what seems like some posturing on the funding? >> well, there's posturing on the funding, and it's coming from different spots. you know, i mean, all along we've heard rand paul sort of the neo isolationist part of the party wanting to cut off aid long before any of this happened. now you have sort of the human rights camp within the republican party doing that as well. but at least until this point you still had the internationalists prevailing there. in fact, they were reading out a letter from apac, the israel lobby, on the floor of the senate when they were beating back an effort by rand paul to spend aid just last month. now, that will theoretically change now because there's more and more pressure. that's why basically the administration is trying to, you know, play for time here and hope that what appears to be this monstrous military regime now will get elections going and give them some excuse not to withdraw aid. >> and ambassador, as you know, about 10% of the egyptian population is christian, coptic christians. they've really been targeted since the military came in to break up those camps of the muslim brotherhood. about 60-plus churches and mo monestaries have been attacked. >> it's a terrible dilemma. after all, you said the cops make up 9% of the population. they've been targeted, whether rightly or wrongly, for their political position and support of the military against the brotherhood and the president. unfortunately, the tendency to go after the coptic christian churches and jclergymen had occurred under morsi. it wasn't just the muslim brotherhood, but many of their more radical islamist allies who always viewed the christian cops as infidels. they were protected under the mubarak regime. now they lack that protection, and they're desperately in need of not being targeted. we have to understand how divided egypt now is sectarianwise and why it's important in the long run to basically give the military the chance to restore order. in the end, without restoring order, we're going to see a lot more deaths. >> ambassador, before we let you go, walk us through what happens if you do have mubarak released. this was a man who was, for most of his tenure, actually relatively popular, both within egypt and seen as a steady partner throughout the region. not your usual dictator, if you will. what happens if he's out there? >> well, ari, he still was convicted of crimes. he was convicted of a crime for, in effect, condoning the attacks on demonstrators in tahrir square. this being released is only temporary, at least right now, as i understand it, pending a new trial on other charges. so he may get out of hospital and be removed to some sort of safe house, but this doesn't mean he's going to be walking down the streets of cairo, unfettered to the accolades or to the jeers of people who clearly have very strong animosities towards him, no matter what side of the political divide you are. he is not a unifying figure by any stretch of the imagination. >> and ambassador, you've talked about how essentially impotent the u.s. is to exert influence in this conflict. if we remove military aid, it will be more of a symbolic gesture than an actual meaningful exertion of leverage. is there a possibility for any sort of sanctions to be a point of leverage here? >> well, there's a lot of things that apply to egypt that we have influence of, including their international economic aid that comes from multilateral institutions as well as our european allies. but egypt's economy is totally dependent on tourism. this is the third year that they have lost almost all their tourism. no matter what happens here, the replacement of tourism cannot be happening as a result of additional foreign assistance. so the united states really has only one important role to play here, as i see it. that's to send secretary kerry to galvanize political support with the political leadership of egypt right now that is the difference between a military that stands alone and the facade of dealing with a new political equation in egypt. that's the best thing we can do right now, to invest our time and effort with that political civilian leadership in egypt that the military is so dependent upon for its own survivability and longevity insofar as its relationship with the american people. >> thank you for your time. the president is back from vacation and he already wants to get out on the road. we're going to spin on that. it's monday, august 19th. 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[ male announcer ] new alka seltzer fruits chews. enjoy the relief! summertime has never been too kind to president obama, at least pollwise. summer 2013 is no exception. every summer his approval ratings take a dive in july, july, and august. right now his numbers have sunk to 45% approval. his rating on the economy is even worse, 35% approve. that's down seven points from june. might be one reason why the president back from vacation is heading out on a multistate bus tour this week where he'll discuss the economy and education and lay the battle lines for the fall budget fights. you know, i think the truth of the matter is at this point there's not a whole lot more than the president could be doing than taking executive actions that he can to help the economy and help the country. he's planning on taking a few executive actions regarding education to help expand pre-k and help provide internet access to schools. that's important. other than what he can do with his executive power, it's not like he'll be able to actually negotiate with this republican congress when this republican can't even negotiate with itself. so i think his best move right now is to go out and talk to people about exactly who it is that's gumming up the works because maybe the american people could put some pressure on the republicans. he certainly hasn't been able to. >> but part of this bus tour we're going to see is playing the blame game, going out and blaming republicans for getting nothing done. >> because they deserve the blame. >> okay. i think people are tired it of hearing this message. i think they're tired of hearing the blame game. i really think they're tired of just the nonsense in washington. ultimately, that's not going to make them feel better when they wake up in the morning. you know, the reason you're seeing his number down at 35% is because people are out of a job still. this is the slowest economic recovery for a recession we've ever seen. the facts are the facts. i think what you're seeing is here is people saying, i get up in the morning, i don't see a positive future for myself. i don't see a positive future for my family. the group i continue to focus on are the millennials, those 20 to 25. if you look at those that are graduating college, i mean, it's really -- you look here. 44% of recent college grads are underemployed. you talk about the unemployed, but we're not even focused on the underemployed and how many of those that graduate get a job that you don't need a college degree for. which is a really sad statistic. >> i think the millennial thing is interesting. you're a millennial. we have two gen x'ers. >> i'm a gen x'er, you jerk. >> there are also some boomers on the show. >> at least one. >> the two of you really just pile on. really? wow. >> i sort of hear you. i sort of don't. i was watching the newsroom last night. sorry, not sorry. >> you're using the newsroom to back up your argument. >> wait for it. >> okay. >> they had this whole thing you hear a lot. the sort of liberal angry complaint about the do-nothing congress. that's certainly true by the number of bills passed. that analysis holds up to a point. i'm worried that in popular culture and in politics it's now become this sort of mythology that absolutely nothing will ever get done in congress, ergo, the president shouldn't give speeches. they passed the violence against women act that they didn't want to pass. why did they do that? i can show you the numbers where they went many weeks ducking it, not saying we're against it, just trying not to get a vote scheduled. eventually they had to schedule the vote. then it pass overwhelmingly. i thank the republicans who did finally come around. but the strategy like on so many things was make this go away, distract, duck, obstruct. so faced with that strategy, one of the key tools of presidential leadership is getting out there, repeating the point until they can't duck. in those cases sometimes you can force a vote. >> i'm just saying he could speak every day for the next two months, but i don't think that's what people are wanting. i think people are sick and tired of this blame game. >> i think a lot of americans don't perhaps understand that republicans are the reason why we're getting nothing done, so they think that washington in general is broken. when the president goes out and explains, at least to his base, this is what's going on, they might start to understand. >> and here's how you can apply pressure to actually get something done. >> yeah, and i mean, some things have gotten done. violence against women. the farm bill, the immigration situation, guns. lots of important things not getting done. we're doing a fraction of what the do-nothing congress got done. what i also want to see him talk about, because the president is going to speak on the march on washington this week. i want to see him talk about what's going on for black people. we saw last week he's dealing with criminal injustice relief. now we can deal with maybe some economic injustice relief. unemployment for black people is twice what it is for white people. over the last 30 years, we've gone from the average white family having five times the wealth of the average black family to 6 1/2 times. so the gap is getting larger. >> i taught racism was over. >> oh, yeah, right. black people are twice as likely to not have health insurance as white people. these gaps are getting larger. any measure he can impose that would help both can only increase the gap. we need help, not because he's black, but because we are a community that's struggling economically. >> i'm just saying actions speak louder than words. i agree with what you're saying. wee ne we need to see the economic numbers change. >> but he can't take any action because of the congress. >> well, i hope he marches up there and gets people together to start having conversations. that's what a commander in chief does. you lead. many argue he could still do more. >> the more he tells them what he wants, the more they say that's the thing we will not do because that will help you. he can only work as eisenhower, the invisible hand behind the scenes trying to let them know what he wants from behind the scenes. >> i'm just saying the numbers speak for themselves. 35% approval on the economy. that's all i'm saying. >> this is certainly a conversation that will continue. >> have you ever heard eisenhower called the invisible hand before? i like that. >> she's heard that because she's been on the show for a year and a half. >> i'm moving this along. up next, hey, sheryl sandberg. you know your whole leaning in theory? i have a little stat for you. ♪ turn around ♪ every now and then i get a little bit hungry ♪ ♪ and there's nothing good around ♪ ♪ turn around barry ♪ i finally found the right snack ♪ ♪ and experience the connectivity of the available lexus enform, including the es and rx. ♪ this is the pursuit of perfection. if you have high cholesterol, here's some information that may be worth looking into. in a clinical trial versus lipitor, crestor got more high-risk patients' bad cholesterol to a goal of under 100. getting to goal is important, especially if you have high cholesterol plus any of these risk factors because you could be at increased risk for plaque buildup in your arteries over time. and that's why when diet and exercise alone aren't enough to lower cholesterol i prescribe crestor. 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[ female announcer ] if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. a talking car. but i'll tell you what impresses me. a talking train. this ge locomotive can tell you exactly where it is, what it's carrying, while using less fuel. delivering whatever the world needs, when it needs it. ♪ after all, what's the point of talking if you don't have something important to say? ♪ we begin the news cycle of course with the showdown in boston. ryan dempster in one corner. in the other corner, alex rodriguez. second inning last night in fenway park. the first pitch from dempster, a little inside. dempster said he was establishing his inside fastball. uh-huh. after the count went to 3-0, boom, off the elbow and into the ribs of a-rod. the umpire warned both benches and yankee manager joe girardi goes nuts, yelling that dempster should be ejected. he was absolutely right, but he got tossed. but a-rod got the last laugh, homering off of dempster in the sixth. my yankees won 9-6. >> i totally should have gotten to read that story instead. oscar pistorius was indicted today on the charge of premeditated murder in the death of his girlfriend reeva steenkamp. pistorius will remain free until his trial starts march 3rd next year. meanwhile, the massive wildfire burning in idaho is being described as angry. it's been burning for 12 days with no reprieve in site. 100,000 acres are charred right now. 1200 firefighters are on the ground. despite their best efforts, the fire is only about 9% contained. all right. that's your news cycle. now some interesting new numbers that caught our eye. "elle" magazine is out with a new survey of young professionals all about power in the work force. who's got it, who wants it, and what people really think about their bosses. uh-oh. a bright spot, though, something men, women, republicans, and dems can all agree on. they all support mandatory paid maternity leave, when the u.s. doesn't currently have. lawmake lawmakers, please take note. so the timeless editor and chief of "elle" magazine joins us now. your survey has a lot of people talking. in a lot of ways, it goes against conventional wisdom that women are to blame for being held back in the work force. i want to get back to women not being on the top as compared to men. in the study it shows that men and women both think, number one, that they're not in top jobs because, a, they're not tough enough, b, family takes up too much of their time, and, three, they're discriminated against. i was surprised both men and women feel this way. could this be the reason that, you know, we've plateaued here? until this changes, i feel like we're not going to get much further. >> well, isn't it interesting? i mean, we talk about progress that both men and women are reporting these things equally, where you would sort of assume it would be women who would feel that they're not progressing because they're not getting enough attention or they're not being given enough work. men in some ways feel they're also being held back by family responsibilities. so we were surprised by that statistic. to your point, so many more women and women said we're not getting ahead because we're not tough enough. i think that, you know, certainly i look at the panel and the women are every bit as tough as the men, right? >> absolutely. >> or tougher, i would argue, in this specific panel. >> ari brings down the average. >> i thought you were going to make more of a joke there. >> that's a family quarrel. i'm not getting into that. >> great to have you here. i definitely agree with the cover choice to have kate upton. not something we get to do at the nation magazine. i'm down with it. the question i want to ask is about policy. in the piece you look at the map of the world, and americans like to think we're exceptional and in the lead. you point out we're one of only eight countries that doesn't actually require paid maternity leave. >> there we are with liberia. >> tell us about how that policy dynamic plays into this. >> well, the interesting thing from our survey is equal numbers of men and women, republicans and democrats, all above 80% said that they felt that paid maternity leave should be federally mandated. what does that mean? that means everybody supports women working and working full time and having the full support of our government and of the institutions that support women working. why don't we have it? why are we sort of dead last in both emerging markets as well as in mature societies? >> well, no conversation of women in the workplace can be complete these days without talking about sheryl sandberg. she famously encouraged women, particularly women starting families, to make sure they're leaning in to their work. but women in your survey said they're already leaning in. >> we were happily surprised at that. only 7% of women said they did not take a promotion or additional work because they were preparing to have families. so either sheryl sandberg has gotten through at warp speed or women sort of have already been doing this and already, you know, are very involved with their careers and very much wanted to take on more responsibility and leadership positions. this is really what we were trying to examine with the whole survey. why aren't there more leaders? how do more women and men perceive women in leadership positions, and what are the things that are keeping us back? >> can you share some of the things you've learned from your own life, from your own journey about how you got to the top that could translate to the women who are listening? >> it's interesting. it's a great question. i've worked for both men and women. i do find, not to be sexist about it, but there are different qualities in working for each i have an amazing boss right now. an interesting thing from our survey showed that men are now considered 36% -- i'm sorry, almost 50% more likely than women to be considered emotional at work. now, either this is progress or men have been hiding something for far too long. and women, of course, are thought to be more compassionate and more of a team player. the one that really jumped out at us, that men are considered to be more lazy, by 233%. what's that about? that's an interesting thing to analyze. >> that was the stat i was actually least shocked about in the entire survey. nothing new there. >> you work with more men than women. >> thanks so much for joining us. really a fascinating survey. >> thank you. up next, new questions surrounding the death of princess diana. was she murdered by u.k. special forces? we'll tell you what british police are saying and doing about the latest allegations up next. 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[ clears his throat ] [ softly ] she's right ♪ehind me isn't she? even superheroes need superheroes, and some superheroes need complete and balanced meals with 23 vitamins and minerals. purina dog chow. help keep him strong. dog chow strong. it has been 16 years since princess diana died in a paris car crash, an incident that shocked the world and did leave some unanswered questions. this weekend, a british publication reported an allegation that a british special forces unit might have secretly worked to cause diana's death. the police are not reopening the investigation, but they are looking into the new allegation. let's bring in nbc's mandy clark in london to fill us in. >> well, scotland yard are tight lipped on the details of the claims, but many newspapers are reporting that the allegations are diana and her boyfriend were murdered by a special forces soldier. now, last night britain's channel 4 news reported that this new information actually stems from the soldier's former in-laws who wrote a letter complaining about his erratic behavior. they claimed the soldier threatened their lives and then he went on to say diana's death had been arranged by the special forces, then the military covered it up. now, police sources have described the allegations as being without any supporting evidence, but they have a duty to investigate every tip. they're currently assessing it for reliability and credibility. scotland yard has stressed it's not reopening the investigation. look, conspiracy theories surrounding diana's death have always been around it. her boyfriend's father is convinced the british establishment was involved. the driver was drunk with he lost control of the car and hit a cement pillar. whether or not these latest allegation will lead to new information, it's already furthered the mystery that still surrounds her death 16 years on. >> all right. thank you for that context, mandy. now, we are going to turn to a novelist and royal air force veteran who knows a lot about espionage, intrigue, and national security. you may know him best from "the day of the jackyll." he's out with a new book "the kill list" about a u.s. marine hunt to find home grown terrorists who are living in the u.s. and the u.k. welcome to the guest spot. >> thank you. >> your thoughts briefly on the princess diana story. >> i think the new allegation is rubbish, as indeed are are the 20 or 30 previous allegations. come on. it was a drunk driver, driving a big limousine twice the speed he should have been driving in a narrow corridor of steel and lost control. there are just people who will not have it that way, particularly the owner of the hotel, the paris ritz, which was responsible for putting a drunk driver in charge of a princess. >> yeah, i mean, that's an important point. looking to the book, "the kill list," you have a story in here that's a little different than some of your most famous work in that a lot of this discusses the sort of cyber internet coding aspect. how did you research that or get up to speed on that, and how important is that in sort of today's espionage and terrorism? >> personally, i'm a cyber du dumbo. i don't understand it. i had to go to the guys who really do understand it because it's now inescapable in counterterrorism. the fact is that the national security agency out in maryland, they listen, they listen, they listen, they intercept, they eavesdrop, they translate, they break codes, they're doing it all the time. and, yeah, in cyberspace and in realtime. and there are the drones. they're mainly american. i think we have a few in britain, but not many. you can blacken the sky with drones. they are technically amazing creatures. they look down 50,000 feet and see your face fill a screen in a bunker in the middle of nevada. so all that had to be in if you're going to describe counterterrorism today, not what it was. >> you obviously did a lot of research for this recruiting devices, on how terrorists radicalize young muslims. i'm curious how similar that is to reality. >> well, the only american citizen actually who's ever been assassinated, if that's the word, having been on the kill list was anwar al alawki. he did exactly that. he summarized online and convinced some susceptible, not very bright, perhaps, young muslims to convert. >> how did he do that? >> well, how does anybody do anything? there was a guy once who brainwashed an entire nation. if you can do that to a nation, you can certainly do it to a few stupid boys. that's what he did. so this story is about the success successor, because he's dead. he was killed, i think, two years ago by a drone in north yemen. this suggests a successor who also preaches online. it's not so much would it be possible, it's how do -- how does the american counterterrorist machine hunt down these terrorists one after the other. they've taken out just about the entire cream of al qaeda, the leadership, one after the other. they've been killed mainly by drones. of course, the biggest of all was a personal visit to osama bin laden. >> i've heard of him once or twice. part of the interest in a book like this, other than it bag great read, is the sort of fear and fascination with terrorism. do you feel like that fear is still as great in the population today as it was, say, ten years ago? >> it seems to be because we're seeing a new kind. they call it the clean skins. these are young men who the counterterrorist forces have never heard of, like the ones who did the boston bombing and the two nigerians who butchered that off-duty soldier in london. these are guys who seem to convert to insane, perhaps, certainly homicidal extremism, where even the drone can't penetrate. they are dangerous because there's no reported of them. they're just not on file. if they're on file, then, yes, usually if there's some big conspiracy involving chemicals and things, then yes, the counterterrorism forces intercept them, get a whisper, someone talks or sneaks. they have agents. when it's just one guy deciding, i am going to go and kill for allah, you can't do anything about it until he strikes. >> when you imagine your reader, do you imagine your reader being scared throughout, being relieved? what is the emotional va lance you want to achieve? >> i don't want to scare him. the idea is -- him or her -- is to try and explain with a story, hopefully an interesting story, how it is done. the it is how do you track them down. see, i was just looking at newspapers and seeing two-paragraph stories of someone who was killed last night by a drone in some shack in a valley in pakistan. end of story. i thought, that's great, but they're not walking around with a post-it on their forehead saying, i'm al qaeda. so how did they find him there? i thought, there's a story there. of course, there is. there's a machine a huge man hunting machine paid for by your tax dollars. it's at workday and night. so i thought we'll invent a guy they want. it's a story of a man hundredt. it starts with a bad guy and a good guy. the good guy is assigned to find the bad guy and kill him. that's putting it in half a page. but it took a lot of research to find out what really is going on out there. >> well, you feel that a lot of that comes through because of the texture of the piece. thank you for being with us. it's "the kill list." people can find it online and in bookstores. up next, is it high time for reform? that's a tease for a segment about pot. we'll get an update on a place where you actually can smoke pot without getting in much trouble. what you wear to bed is your business. so, if you're sleeping in your contact lenses, ask about the air optix® contacts so breathable they're approved for up to 30 nights of continuous wear. serious eye problems may occur. ask your doctor and visit airoptix.com for safety information and a free one-month trial. to prove to you that aleve is the better choice for her, she's agreed to give it up. that's today? 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[ male announcer ] look for the easy-open red arthritis cap. you've heard of new orleans' jazz fest. i've been there. it's amazing. and germany's oktoberfest. but seattle's hemp fest? yeah, that's a thing. and the national review's roaming reporter betsy woodrouf is back with us after spending the weekend at the world's largest event advocating pot reform. she writes about her experience in her lest article "quick hits from hemp fest." cute title. welcome back to the show. the question is, how high did you get? no, no, that's not the real question. >> you don't have to answer that. >> but the purpose, of course, of cannabis reform is not for more people to get high. people in america can get high pretty much any time anywhere they want in terms of being able to acquire drugs. the point is to not have people go to jail for nonviolent public health choices. so the lens is going to have to be long term whether this is working out, but you've been to washington. you see how things are going, where they're experimenting with legalization there. how's it going? >> you know, the funniest thing i heard at hemp fest over and over was that as far as the amount of consumption, there was really no change. like you said, if people want to smoke pot, they're pretty much going to smoke pot. whether or not a state legalizes it or bans it isn't a huge contributing factor. so it seems to be pretty normal. >> betsy, the other thing you talk about is how surprisingly tense and adversarial hemp fest was. talk to me about the break down between the recreational marijuana smokers and the medical marijuana community. >> yeah, well, hemp fest is an organization never actually endorsed by the ballot initiative that legalized recreational marijuana use. there was concern within the medical marijuana community that allowing for these recreational stores to open would be problematic for them and it would be advantageous because the tax benefits to the state are greater. we have yet to see those concerns get played out. it seems to be largely resolved. there was sort of some undercurrents of discomfort and animosity. to an extent, i think a lot of what happened at this year's hemp fest is everyone getting together under one big tent and sort of doing the whole don't worry, be happy thing. >> all the while, the feds have remained pretty much silent. the last time we heard from attorney general eric holder, he said this, quote, we are, i think, in our last stages of that review and are trying to make a determination as to what the policy ramifications are going to be, what our international obligations are, but the people in colorado and washington deserve that answer, and we will have that, as i said, relatively soon. betsy, that was nearly six months ago. what's going on here? >> i mean p relative to what? when you say soon, that's the big question for everyone. it actually is really problemic for a lot of the owners. a huge concern is a lot of these guys have a lot of trouble opening bank accounts because the banks are worried they could be charged with money laundering or that the funds could be seized. especially in colorado and also in washington, you see these guys just having to go through, you know, regulatory gymnastics to find ways to keep their money safe. a lot of dispensary owners have to resort to just having vaults within their grow ops that are practically biometrically seale biometrically sealed and filling it up with cash. that's something where all eyes are on washington as far as regulatory reform. >> abby raises an person point. this is a legal limbo with huge consequences. if you look at the actual federal punishment for pot use it, remains incredibly severe because it is a schedule one substance. you can get up to a year in jail for a first time use. a man doer to 90 days in jail as the minimum sentence if you've used it three times. if you grow plants, you can get up to five years in jail. just to stress for the audience here, all of that is still good federal law. so it's still in conflict as you mentioned not only on the money laundering and regulatory side but also on the criminal code. you write for national review, it seems appropriate to note several conservatives have been outspoken about the need to change this. holder had a great first step on the prosecutorial side. do you think there's any hope to get in and change the federal laws? >> i think the odds of seeing legislation happen in congress anytime regarding this is fairly slim. i think what's more likely, we'll see regulatory changes that will keep pace with what's going on in the states. when we talk about the federal, state level law discord, it's important to bear in mind for all practical purposes, it's incredibly difficult for the federal government to enforce marijuana loss without state's help. if states op out of enforcing them, for all practical purposes it's legal. you don't hear about anyone going to jail for smoking even at hemp fest. there were countless people smoking and nobody was subtle about it. >> people were smoking at hech fest? >> i know, crazy, right? >> way to bury the lead there, betsy. >> i don't know. >> acting like we're -- what's going on? all right. betsy woodruff, thank you for coming on. taking this seriously, unlike ari naftali, check out betsy's piece at the national review line and the cycle.msnbc.com. while you're doing all that, head over to our facebook and riddle me this should other states follow the evergreen's lead in decriminalizing weed? stephen says absolutely. this happen in any location where the people are serious about american freedom and do not just take such sfon freedom for granted. josh winston agrees saying the whole country should legalize it, peter tosh would agree, as always, like us on the facebook. up next, the absurdity of the nypd and stop and frisk. >> throughout the case, we didn't believe that we were getting a fair trial. and this decision confirms that suspicion. we will be presenting evidence of that unfairness to the appeals court. >> hold on. let me get this straight. you think this program is being unfairly stopped and scrutinized even though it's done nothing wrong? i think i know millions of blacks and latinos in the city who know exactly how you feel. oe and you know what i walked out with? 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[ doorbell rings ] ...and let the good life in. you got to laugh to keep from crying when you move into the land of stop and frick which the bloomberg administration is defending in force. if only they cared as much about my rights. yesterday ray kelly told david gregory this. >> preventive aspect to this and people say that's not the appropriate word. >> wait, now i'm confused. if someone's not breaking the law, how are they not innocent? perhaps there's a gray area if you're black or brown. that preventive aspect we heard about when new york state senator eric he said during a meeting with the kelly he said he wanted to instill fear in them that every time they left home they could be targeted by police. kelly officially denies having said that. some black and brown men say they're more afraid of the cops than muggers who can't throw them in jail on a whim. >> the stark reality is that violence is happening disproportionately in minority communities, and that unfortunately is in big cities throughout america. we have record low numbers if of murders in new york city it, record low numbers of shootings. we're doing something right to save lives. those lives saved are largely the lives of young men of color. >> wow. so much top impact there. he's saying lots of crimes are committed in black and brown neighborhoods so it's going to treat everyone in those neighborhoods like criminals. that is a justification for racial profying which the mayor says in stis "washington post" editorial today he has zero tolerance for. in 2004 i signed a law banning racial profile. we have zero tolerance for it. police officers have told me it stop and frisk involves is racial profiling. white dpeem suspicious things and officers were discouraged from stopping them. do you see how policing blacks via the presumption of evidence -- >> apparently he cares so much about black and brown men they're willing to treat all of them as criminals in order to scare the minority who are criminals and thus save black and brown lives. how did i not understand that? it's for our own good. we should be thanking them for this. >> if a program like stop and frisk is abandoned, will people die? >> well, i think no question about it, violent crime will go up. >> and there's your fear mongering. ignore other large cities have decreased crime without stop and frick, ignore new york had a steep dedplees homicides before stop and frisk and it's seizure rate for guns is 1/15 of a percent. bloomberg concludes his "washington post" editorial saying every american has a right to walk down the street without being targeted by the police because of his or her race or ethnicity. at the same time, every american has a right to walk down the sfrooet street without getting mugged or killed. don't black americans have a right to walk down the street without getting mugged by police? aren't we citizens too?

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