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[inaudible] [noise] >> after the unlawful assembly was declared, it was literally manifested. it felt like we won. that is when we heard this loud bang. [noise] one car got pushed into the intersection. another car got pushed in right behind it. it was just utter chaos. >> it is hard to imagine that such a big moment happened in this little space. but that is common in america. these big moments happen in little spaces. >> absolutely. this is what we learn. we learned that these small spaces can set the stage for huge explosions. >> the battle in charlottesville seem to be over a single statue. and it is a battle that has been repeated in cities across the country. but more than 1500 monuments to the confederacy remain. honoring those who fought and died to keep black america, like my ancestors, in bondage. so i decided to travel the south to learn for myself just how deep these roots are buried. i'm looking for understanding. for something that will make sense in this moment. along the way, i visited monuments. those are that are not so easily removed. artifacts, small enough for some to ignore. landmarks, too large to take down. that reside in our memory, and in our blood. because the fight was always about more than just a statue. beautiful morning in fredericksburg, virginia. i didn't want to take this journey alone, so i asked my friend, a reporter from the new york times to join me. to help me process what it all means. >> what is going on, man? >> good to see you. >> we talked about race in history, how his people came from trinidad. and mine from the slave trade. in 2017, the city council of fredericksburg, took up the question whether to remove a slave auction block that stands in the corner of downtown. >> we're about to see an auction block where people were sold. what's crazy is when you look at the old advertisements, several strong negroes for sale! but the idea that we're not just talking about what we considered as manual labor, we are talking about artists and professionals. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> when my uncle was young, he took a picture on the slave block. they wanted him to take a picture. for him, it was about getting the money because he paid him. and when my grandfather realized that he had sit on that block and had his picture taken. my grandfather whipped him and threw the money away. and he told him what that block was. and why he was never to go on that block again. that story has been with us since we were little children. this says, not only did we not want you here. but we still do not want you here. >> the lone black councilman pushed to remove the auction block. the six white people in the council said they voted to keep it in place to educate future generations. >> i heard you say that fredericksburg maybe the most famous city in america. >> indeed, our city's most famous. when i walk by city hall, i walk by -- i walk by the home that my mother was born in. >> you also walked by an auction block, didn't you? >> i did. >> what does that mean in terms of the history? at some point, you arrived at a point in history where people were bought and sold in this community. >> that is an artifact. the very fact that you can stand where somebody was treated as property, and where families were separated, is very moving. it's like what germany did when they kept auschwitz and all. it's like, don't ever forget. you can't ever forget how horrible that was. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> councilman chuck proposed removing the block. >> the auction block has been on my mind for a long time, since i was a kid. i used to see people spit on it, and i saw a mock auction. their lives were so depart. and my thing was all always that it needs to go. it was a 61 vote with city council. >> do you think there is a way to do the block in a respectful way and keep it there? >> i can't change my view. it tells a story that is a more full in-depth story. >> when you walk by there, with your children, with your people. what is the message that you are sending? >> there is a possibility that you're great grandfather was sold here. >> it seems the fight over the auction block is what's in our history book? what it represents has a rippling effect of what it represents. >> that is america. >> the black barbershop has always been a place of community. where wisdom is passed, and stories are traded. today is no different. >> so what was it like growing up with that auction block right there on the corner? >> it was an embarrassment. i do not need to see that block to see what the past was. >> it made you mad because i could sit there with my great grandmother, my great-grandfather. you bring them there and then you tell them. how are you trying to memorialize something like that? >> it is completely unfair and unreal that people can sit there and say that, oh well, we are just saving history. no, what you are doing is spitting in our faces! that is what you are doing! >> just across the river from downtown is the chattel plantation. where hundreds of slaves toiled for a century. >> you imagine the conversation that happened here, the idea that fear was in the family. torture. but the flipside is, the fear that you could be sold at the auction block. >> yeah, can you imagine from down here, looking up here. you see this nice brick house. but you're not thinking that, you're in the haunted house. >> but the only thing you're serving is the servitude, or death. but is something running away? the union army arrived here, for the white folks, it says the children would respond. and there's terror. but thousands of black folks went across the river to join the union army. could you imagine that moment? -- in kentucky, the birthplace of jefferson davis, they are struggling with telling a story among these memorials. including [inaudible] dedicated to the only president of the confederacy. >> look at that, my goodness! that is huge! when you're thinking about the conversation and debate especially over the last year, what are the effects that cannot be turned down by this statue? how can they go into this debate. we are talking about a obelisk at 350 feet tall. >> that's why we're moving into, within the past few years it is talking about the construction of confederate memory in kentucky. routed specifically in the routes that are raising money to create this audience of landscape today. to sell it back to not only the south, but the entire nation. and with the south in the civil war, recognizing that this history comes much later. it is situated with the story of the jim crow south. >> during the early 20th century, groups in the confederacy started promoting a revisionist spin on the war. this lost cause was about more than memorializing dead confederates. it was about painting the north as an occupying force. and the south as noble defenders of virtue. all while minimizing the role of slavery. the influence would have -- the united daughters of the confederacy were especially horrific. starting in the 1890s, they put out many memorials to the confederacy. symbols of the confederacy aren't all copper and stone. for decades, descendants of veterans have connected through the path through these. jeff has been living through this for 25 years. he compares dozens of soldiers to his family tree. when we're looking at here? >> this is a six pounder model, my brother and i've built this, we looked it over and he said, yeah, i can make those so that's first what we thought, why not? , that was a hot day. >> when you're out there and you're in your uniform and you see the flags, is there a connection to the past? is that what hinges -- >> yes, there is a connection to the past. yes. if you're interested in history, it's ten time better than reading about it in the book. so, i guess it gives you a greater appreciation of your forebears and the suffering they went through. >> is that appreciate dampened at all for you by the fact that they were fighting for the cause of the slavery states? >> have to get into the mind of what the 19th century mind. or get into the 18th century mind. it is pretty hard to do. you have to do a lot of reading. >> the library is full of reading about why people decided that it was worth fighting and dying to own people and send people. i don't know if -- that's >> and again, one of the topics -- >> it's a big topic. that's a big topic! >> we'll, if you didn't own slaves, it's not such a big topic. >> do you think the veteran at all and how we should view these monuments, there's a large population of americans who those monuments represent them not being human? >> so, should we squash it? do we rewrite history? if you don't have some type of proof, generations from now, you have people arguing it and it may just vanish. >> considering that for a great number of people, those things represent deep trauma and great violence against people. >> haven't we got beyond that? >> have we? >> well, how many people living in america today were slaves? how many people living in america today own slaves? it's roughly zero, so we should've gotten beyond. >> but we don't have, myself for example, we don't have our last names, a religion, my native tongues. >> this language is not my language either. >> right, but you benefit. >> everybody in america has a benefit. it's the greatest country in the world. >> but not everyone has a benefit of slavery. >> everybody living in america today has a great benefit. >> the people of african descent in this country, people descendants of slaves, what benefit do they get from slavery? >> they're here. >> what's amazing is you get such a sense of place. this could be any town, usa, but you're surrounded by momentos from the past, including momentos and monuments of the confederacy. >> how do you grapple with that? >> there is as much division because different things -- there is a lack of consideration of how this might make us as americans feel. black americans feel. there seems to be this lock on the idea that we can't throw away history. >> but you're not telling the whole truth history. >> coming up, my conversation with a descendant of the president of the confederacy. jefferson davis. that's ahead when "stone ghosts in the south" continues after this. i love it when he strips for me. we strip as a pack. i don't care who sees me strip. josh, you strip? breathe right opens your nose for nasal congestion relief you can feel right away. helping you breathe better day or night, here or there. breathe right. strip on. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. with the money we saved, we tried electric unicycles. i think i've got it! doggy-paddle! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ my asthma felt anything but normal. a blood test helped show my asthma is driven by eosinophils, which nucala helps reduce. nucala is a once-monthly add-on injection for severe eosinophilic asthma. nucala is not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. ask your asthma specialist about a nunormal with nucala. 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>> to me, yes, absolutely. because everything that's handed down this chair has reverence to me. a confederate statue, when those first put it up, it had reference to them. >> how do you balance or reconcile or wrestle with the dual americans around jefferson davis? one, that we've all heard is the first and only president of the confederacy. on the other hand, there's 52 years of his life before the civil war. >> i don't know, i reconcile almost as much as i try to bring them together to have a complete understanding. and when you put that four years of his life, which is 5% in total perspective, is it what it is that we want to remember? or do we want to have a complete understanding of the entire four years of his life? >> but that four years is pretty big four years, right? >> pretty big four years because it was the most dramatic part of american history and a lot of respect. but they let that country in the position that he was appointed to. not one that he wanted. >> since we're dealing with the facts who do a lot of jefferson davis is that he supported the expansions of slavery even before the civil war before he came the president of the confederacy. he did believe that black people were inferior to white people. in your mind, does that tarnish his legacy at all? >> what bothers me the most is exactly what you just said. the statements he made and reference to the slaves were his own feelings about their status. and i cannot say that i support that. but, again, it's the link the perspective of the time in the place that he lived. it is not the most favorable aspect. but it is part of his character and we have to understand that. >> i have to wonder, are you welcomed in those groups that are so staunchly pro confederate? they don't want to see anything happen to any statues, they don't to see anymore plaques, are you welcomed in those spaces? >> in the pro confederate folks, i would say that i'm probably not. >> before leaving town, we hear that there is one more stop we should make if we really want to understand what keep so many southern whites rooted to the confederacy. >> first, could you do -- you mind spelling and saying your first and last name for us? >> my first name is gordon, g o r d o, and and cotton, co tio, and just like you pick. >> so, with all the confederate statues and the, flag is it time for us to move forward? >> no, because if we move forward, we're going to leave everything else out of our history. are we going to be selective in what we are going to keep and what we are gonna forget? >> but, what about this idea that these men were fighting to maintain that system of slavery? >> that was not it all, they were fighting because our homes were invaded. >> the whole thing was based on money. most things are. >> going back to the charlottesville, someone was killed -- someone was shot and someone else was beaten up. does it surprise you to see that some people are beloved to but their support in defense of robert e. lee and the rest? >> well, they aren't the ones that started it. defending it, yes, i can understand that. but they are not the ones who started it. had the people not wanted to tear down a beautiful monument, it would've not happened. >> perhaps they should be moved to somewhere where they can be respected, not in a place of public display where it's doing nothing but sending us a certain kind of message. >> i totally disagree with you. it happened right here, we commemorate it right here. >> what do you think of jefferson davis? >> he is my personal hero. i think he is one of the greatest men in american history. >> what about him, obviously, being someone who supported slavery? should that diminish or tarnish his legacy? >> no, because he was not the only one. i think growing up in this community seven miles from briers feel, going to a school named jefferson davis, they can destroy what they can, but they can never destroy the legacy of the man. >> how much trans do you get to the idea that these are men of their time. >> certainly that they were men of their time, but that it's exactly what we, say that we forget? they're >> having this conversation is kind of weird with people who are able, somehow, to separate, you know, african slavery and the inferiority of black people. let's, say they are great guys who had a lot of accomplishments. that's hard to square. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> can you imagine this filled with people and tear gas, police on horseback's, baton beaten bloody out here? but this is stone cold history. alabama play such a crucial role in some of the most infamous periods of violence, right? but also of civil rights of progress. and so, this place here, it plays a dual role. it is significant one side of history because and then pettus was famed as a come for the reds leader and as a grand dragon. but, also associated him with the bridge with the fight for black civil rights. >> throughout this whole trip, we have heard people talking about history, you can't lose history. this is one of those cases where i think if someone says that, it kind of makes sense to me. i don't know. >> in this old section -- many notable citizens really tourist. senator admin winston, a congressman. >> there's that guy again. jefferson davis. grandmaster of the klan. this monument was erected october 7th, 2007. this is how they describe this man. this man stands out of testament and devotion and respect. one of the finest heroes. >> up next, the southern history that is not told in these monuments, the horrors of slavery and of lynchings. you will meet a woman whose fathers was lynched and erected her own plaque to memorialize the place where he was murdered just 20 miles from the alabama capital. stone ghost in the south continues right after this. power e*trade's award-winning trading app makes trading easier. with its customizable options chain, easy-to-use tools, and paper trading to help sharpen your skills, you can stay on top of the market from wherever you are. detect this: living with hiv, i learned i can stay undetectable with fewer medicines. that's why i switched to dovato. dovato is for some adults who are starting hiv-1 treatment or replacing their current hiv-1 regimen. detect this: no other complete hiv pill uses fewer medicines to help keep you undetectable than dovato. detect this: most hiv pills contain 3 or 4 medicines. dovato is as effective with just 2. research shows people who take hiv treatment as prescribed and get to and stay undetectable can no longer transmit hiv through sex. don't take dovato if you're allergic to its ingredients, or if you take dofetilide. taking dovato with dofetilide can cause serious or life-threatening side effects. hepatitis b can become harder to treat while on dovato. don't stop dovato without talking to your doctor, as your hepatitis b may worsen or become life-threatening. serious or life-threatening side effects can occur, including allergic reactions, lactic acid buildup, and liver problems. if you have a rash or other allergic reaction symptoms, stop dovato and get medical help right away. tell your doctor if you have kidney or liver problems, or if you are, may be, or plan to be pregnant. dovato may harm your unborn baby. use effective birth control while on dovato. do not breastfeed while taking dovato. most common side effects are headache, nausea, diarrhea, trouble sleeping, tiredness, and anxiety. detect this: i stay undetectable with fewer medicines. ask your doctor about switching to dovato. people remember ads with a catchy song. so to help you remember that liberty mutual customizes your home insurance, here's a little number you'll never forget. ♪ customize and save. ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ y'all wayfair's got just what you need for your home. only pay for what you need. do they have stylish beds at great prices? 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>> very much so. the articles that described my father's death say enraged white jealous of the success of a black man. you acquire more than they think you should, they have to put you back in your place. >> enraged? >> enraged. >> josephine says she paid for her father's marker herself after the state refused to allow her to place it in public land. >> when you think about what you missed in life from not having him -- >> my mom went from prosperity to poverty almost overnight. sometimes i've wondered what my life could've been had he lived. what my life could've been. >> elmore's name was included among the thousands of lynching victims at the national memorial for peace and justice. the memorials director, brian stevenson, hopes the collected names will help change the narrative of a country still grappling with how to tell its own story. >> when i moved to montgomery, this was a city that had 59 markers and monuments for the confederacy and you couldn't find the words slave and slaves freed anywhere? >> how is that possible? >> people had been intentional about denying that part of our history. so this memorial, this site, this is intended to be an intentional response to our silence. >> we talked to folks around the country about what the confederacy stood for, the monuments, they say black people own slaves to, there were white slaves. >> there are many reasons beyond slavery. >> these are all things that are designed to deracialized what happened. and they are aberrations. we've allowed that to happen because we were fighting these other struggles, right? this site is designed to help people understand that you can't ignore this any longer. >> you see one county with one name and then one county with two names and then you see a county like this with over a dozen names. >> do you have any dodge county georgia? >> my great-grandfather, they were farmers in dodge county georgia, there was some issue with a white man, and at the end of the year, he sent his son, cornelius, into town, they shot him, put him on a horse and sent him back. and we have the death certificate says aged 12, 12 gunshots. >> people who engaged in these terror lynchings, they could've buried the body in the ground, could've tried to hide the violence, that's what you would imagine people would do. they did the opposite, they were proud to engage in this kind of racial terror. that's why hanging was so common. the whole idea was to taunt and to terrorize and to torment african americans. that's why you have to think about this as terrorism. there are thousands who get killed, but there are millions who are victimized. seven black people lynched in screamer alabama in 1888 for drinking from a white man's well. dozens in louisiana because they were protesting their low wages. >> am i crazy for -- when i read these things, i'm scared, i feel like that's could've been last week. >> it could've been. >> one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine. it weighs on you. >> there are so many more, i know from my family story what happened, and he is not here. >> there is so much more. >> some say these monuments are about heritage and heroes, but if anything, they are also reminders of america's unsettled war with itself. i started this journey looking for light and understanding, to examine what these monuments mean to those who honor them. but it was never really about the monuments, the large, looming stone facades. or the grotesque stumbling blocks. or what lives inside the man who is grappling with history had been shaped by the myths they hold its truths. if anything, it was about a reckoning and a time of american terror. i'm not sure where we go from here, but the road through history is lon and winding, with markers along the way. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> there's lots of definition of evil, but it's hard to pin point and tell you actually experience it. she was evil. >> we called her the black

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