Transcripts For MSNBC News Nation 20131008

Have to be able to die just washington lingo to get what that means, especially as relates to the stalemate. Absolutely, tamron. Theres one other part of the debate outside of that personal helm. We just had a president ial election over these issues less than a year ago. Republicans are calling for a repeal or budget balanced amendment for any type of hike in the debt ceiling, we have this debate. One of the more prominent House Republican members was on the republican president ial ticket, paul ryan. One of the reasons why president obama doesnt want to negotiate when it comes to the debt ceiling or shutdown, wants them taken off the table then move to the negotiations, is because they think this is already been litigated and all of a sudden if youre able to use these things and extract to end up losing the president ial contest, that creates a constitutional crisis. Also, misinformation and posturing. When im referring to mark, in the last hour, Andrea Mitchell interview interviewed sean duffy, he wants to keep obama care on the table, mean something that can be changed despite it being law and what the Supreme Court has said. In his point during his interview with andrea, he must enroll in obama care and that the president does not and what he referred to as gold plated health care. That conversation can be i think categorized as inaccurate and disingenuous, when we know it was a republican senator who included legislation that required the obama Care Exchange to be a part of the Congress Health care. Its difficult to get in sound bites. Congressman duffy, that they have to enroll in obama Care Exchanges due to Chuck Grassley of iowa who added that as an amendment to the Health Care Legislation which later became law. Bottom line, going on the exchanges and members of congress and their staff will continue to have health insurance, very good health insurance. They will what became a big issue, whether the federal government would continue to subsidize that. Obama administration ruled of course they would, like they do for other workers and big corporations like the one that owns us is able to subsidize our own health care. That gets to the essence of this entire conversation and one which republicans have used the talking point here. Just quickly here, as it relates to how both sides can move forward, what is the likely next step . Were waiting to hear from the president. Hes made it quite clear but we also know theres dissension within the republican ranks, who feel they are being held down by Tea Party Members within the caucus. Reporter its not just them, the poll is proving that with republicans taking brunt of the Government Shutdown. The way they move forward is they still feel at least in the leadership side they need to be able to get something in return for bringing the country into shutdown. They just cant simply let a clean government bill go on the floor. This has become about political posturing ahead of the debt limit. They believe as long as they have that position they cant relinquish the shutdown fight. You make the point, why do people have to suffer in order tore this political ploy . They are fighting for equality under the Health Care Law. The reason why that widow was not able to get the money because her husband was killed in afghanistan, that wasnt because of a Government Shutdown, but because of a Government Shutdown brought on by a debate about the Health Care Law which the president was reelected back in november. Thats why were here now, the Health Care Law. Thank you, both. Quts news nation is following this growing outrage over whats become a devastating effect of the Government Shutdown. It is now preventing families of Fallen Soldiers from collecting death benefits used to help with funerals and even flights for families to meet their loved ones who died. A Senior Defense official tells nbc news, 17 Service Members have died since the Government Shutdown on october 1st. And that none of their families have received those benefits, among them the family of 19yearold marine larns corporal Jeremiah Collins, killed on saturday. His grieving mother spoke with our nbc affiliate in milwaukee. Theres nothing like this pain. For the sacrifice that our kids are making and at the age they are making them, i dont understand how this can be a benefit thats withheld. I will not ip wont ever understand it. Joining me now pentagon correspondent jim miklaszewski. Theres been back and forth whether it was made by the pentagon or something required for the Government Shutdown. Clear this us for us. It is not a call by the pentagon. The lawyers here in the pentagon went to every possible length to figure out how to get around the law that shut the government down. And tried to work it into the pay the military now act and looked at every possible loophole and couldnt make it work. At least temporarily, the benefits will not be paid. Its 100,000 benefit, which is meant to cover the travel, burial and the like and it applies not only to Service Members killed in action, but any Service Member who dies. If a Service Member were to walk out of the pentagon today and get hit by a car, god forbid and get killed, they would be paid the same 100,000 benefit. Now, of course because its suspended. But once the Government Shutdown is lifted, pentagon Officials Say that the benefit will in fact be paid, that the 100,000 is being allocated as we speak for those who are killed in action or in accident or died naturally as a matter of fact. And then once the shutdown is over, those funds should be made immediately available to the families of those Service Members. Thank you very much. Let me bring in a. M. Mee miller, for Tragedy Assistance Program for survivors, provides emotional help for anyone who suffered the loss of a military loved one and iraq war vet, chairman and cofunder of vote vets. Org. Amy, you know this tragedy all too well. Before i get your reaction, four our u. S. Soldiers killed over weekend, joseph peters, 24, Cody Patterson age 24. Your reaction to this fallout from the shutdown only being discussed now after an excellent report from Andrea Mitchell. I think people think it is sickening to be honest with you. I think it is heart wrenching to know newly we reefd families will not have benefits when they need to bring Families Together to grief. John, we talk with you often and youre a passionate guy and my team told me this is something you would really wanted to speak out about and we wanted to get your voice. What are vets telling you . Ive gotten a lot of calls today, obviously. One of my buddies called me and did a couple of tours in iraq and called it the ultimate disgrace. Im embarrassed today standing in front of the capitol. This 100,000 is important, supposed to come with the casualty assistance, 1200 of indem knit for the families. I can imagine, its absolutely a shame and i think its the absolute example why we need to completely fund the government. When we try to piecemeal this thing, its an absolute slap in the face to those who died and certainly our organization, to continue to hold the gop accountable, specifically members of the house who have led us to this point. Amy, we watched world war ii vets attempt to see the memorial and were not initially able to go in. The Government Shutdown here, this raises the states of emotion to the next level. I want to play with Patrick Leahy of vermont, he was addressing the presiding officer of the senate. Lets play what he said. We dont have it but basically he said we send our soldiers to war and tell them were there if something happens to their families and now just because of a small group of Tea Party Republicans we say we cant even take care of your family when you die in the service. I dont want you to get into the politics of this or what side do you blame, but again, what message would you send to members of congress as we look at families grieving and left in the cold . We have fortunately a number of organizations has stood up, including the Army Relief Society and Navy Marine Corps sew side and others, trying to Fund Emergency travel for these families and help families with immediate needs. We are at taps are ready to support these families, our role is providing bereefment care and support and providing a list of resources that are available so we can be there to assist these families. There is a community here that is ready to embrace and support these families. Amy, thank you very much. John, thank you as well. We are awaiting the president , but meanwhile, let me bring in Democratic Congresswoman gwen more of wisconsin. Is mark murray still with us . Mark, let me bring you back in. Were talking about benefits for military families, obviously my father served this country, 30 years in the army. I cannot pretend it doesnt hurt when you hear Something Like this. This is not the only impact that needs to be discussed. Whats happened for example with head start programs where now youre looking at an individual that will donate some funds to help kids go to head start as well. Assistance as we pointed out, single mother, capital police, bravely protected members ever congress and we did not know what was playing out in that tragic scene last week, who also were not receiving the list goes on and on and depending on what your interests are or passions, you might get a little heated here. But the reality is there are innocent people who are the victims of the Government Shutdown. Tamron, the federal government is the nailg nations largest employer. Theres always big debates on how big the government should be, republicans want to make it small enand democrats want to expand the social safety net and things like that. But it does have very big consequences. Just what happened at general electric, always been seen as one of the nations largest employer went belly up all of a sudden this has been a partial Government Shutdown. Still parts that are working and president showing up today. He has his essential staff working, same thing on capitol hill. But there have been so Many Services that arent taking place and paychecks that arent going out and websites and job reports that arent going out. All of that has an impact. The question is what goes on if this goes on another week . Let me bring in ill get you to stand by. Lets bring in Democratic Congresswoman gwen moore of wisconsin. Her district includes milwaukee where Lance Corporal Jeremiah Collins is from. Were waiting for the president , but your reaction to this story that these family members will not get this money even to go retrieve the body of their loved one . Tamron, this is just so heartbreaking to hear. Im so sorry this brave young man the intelligence Lance Corporal Jeremiah Collins has lost his life in afghanistan. My heart goes out to the family. Theres nothing that we can do to really relief the grief and pain that his brother and sister and mother and father are feeling, but at least, at least we could not add to this grief but now providing the ability of this family to bury him decently. Usually these resources are provided to the family within 36 hours of someone like marine Lance Corporal collins passing. Because of the shutdown, despite passing the military bill and despite all of these antics with veterans bills, it really shows the problem of trying to cobble together and piece together a government. It is maam, let me interrupt you really quickly. The president is starting now. Lets listen in. Thank you. Ill try to be brief at the top. This morning i had a chance to speak with Speaker Boehner and i told him what ive been saying publicly, im happy to talk with him and other republicans about anything. Not just issues i think are important but also issues that they think are important. But, i also told him that having such a conversation talks, negotiations, shouldnt require hanging the threats of a Government Shutdown or economic chaos over the heads of the American People. Think about it this way, the American People do not get to demand a ransom for doing their jobs. You dont get a chance to call your bank and say im not going to pay my mortgage this month unless you throw in a new car and xbox. If youre in negotiations around buying somebodys house, you dont get to say, well lets talk about the price im going to pay and you dont give me price, im going to burn down your house. Thats not how negotiations work and how it happens in business, not how it happens in private life. In the same way, members of congress and the House Republicans in particular dont get to demand ransom in change for doing their jobs. Two of their very basic jobs are passing a budget and making sure america is paying its bills. They dont also get to say, you know, unless you get me what the voters rejected in the last election, im going to cause a recession. Thats not how it works. No american president would deal with a foreign leader like this. Most of you would not deal with either a coworker or Business Associates in this fashion, and we shouldnt be dealing this way here in washington. And ive heard republicans suggest that this is reasonable, this is entirely appropriate but as ive said before, imagine if a Democratic Congress threatened to crash the local economy unless a republican president agreed to gun background checks or immigration reform. Its fair to say republicans would not think that was appropriate. So lets let these threats from our families and businesses and lets get down to work. Its not like this is a new position im taking here. I had Speaker Boehner and the other leaders in just last week. Either my chief of staff or i have had serious conversations on budget with republicans more than 20 times since march. So weve been talking all kinds of business. What we havent been able to get are serious positions from the republicans that would allow us to resolve core differences. And they have decided to run out the clock until theres a Government Shutdown or the possibility of default thinking it will give them more leverage. Thats not my characterization. They said it themselves. That was their strategy from the start. And that is not how our government is supposed to run. Its not just me by the way, who has taken the position that were willing to have conversations about anything. Senate democrats have asked to sit down with House Republicans and hash out a budget but have been rejected by the House Republicans 19 times. At the beginning of this year, Speaker Boehner said, what we want is regular order and a serious budget process. So senate should pass a bill and house should pass a bill and then a Committee Comes together and they hash out differences and send the bill to the president. Thats exactly what democrats did. Except somewhere along the way, House Republicans decided they wouldnt appoint people to the committee to try to negotiate. And 19 times they rejected that. So even after all of that, the democrats in the senate still passed a budget that effectively reflects republican priorities at republican budget levels. Just to keep the government open. And the House Republicans couldnt do that either. The point is, i think not only the white house but also democrats in the senate and democrats in the house, have shown more than ample willingness to talk about any issues that the republicans are concerned about. But we cant do it if the entire basis of the republican strategy is were going to shut down government or cause economic chaos if we dont get 100 of what we want. My suggestion to the speaker has been and will continue to be, lets stop the excuses, lets take a vote in the house and lets end the shutdown right now. Lets put people back to work. There are enough Reasonable Republicans and democrats in the house who are willing to vote yes on a budget that the senate has already passed. That vote could take place today, shutdown would be over. Then serious negotiations could proceed around every item in the budget. Now, sps Congress Votes to reopen the government, its also got to vote to meet our countrys commitments and pay our bills and raise the debt ceiling. Because as reckless as a Government Shutdown is, the economic shutdown caused by america defaulting, would be dramatically worse. I want to talk about this for a minute because even though people can see and feel the effects of a Government Shutdown, they are already experiencing it right now, there are still some people out there who dont believe that default is a real thing. Weve been hearing that from some republicans in congress that default would not be a big deal. Let me explain this. If congress refuses to raise whats called the debt ceiling, america would not be able to meet all of our financial obligations for the first time in 225 years. And because its called raising the debt ceiling, i think a lot of americans think, its raising our debt. It is not raising our debt. This does not add a dime to our debt. It simply says, you paid for what congress has already authorized america to purchase, whether thats the greatest military in the world or Veterans Benefits or Social Security, whatever it is that congress has already authorized, what this does is make sure we can pay those bills. Now, the last time that the Tea Party Republicans flirted with the idea of default two years ago, markets plunged and business and Consumer Confidence plunged. And americas Credit Rating was downgraded for the first time and a decision to actually go through with it, to actually permit default, according to many ceos would be, insane, catastroph catastrophic, chaos, these are more polite words. Warren buffett likened to a nuclear bomb, a weapon too horrible to use. It would undermine the worlds confidence in america as the bedrock of the Global Economy and might permanently increase our borrowing costs. Which, of course, ironically would mean it would be more expensive for us to service what debt we do have and add to our deficits and debt, not decrease them. Theres nothing fiscally responsible about that. Now, preventing this should be simple. As i said, raising the debt ceiling is a lousy name why members in both parties dont like to vote on it. It does not allow for a single dime of increased spending. All it does is allow the Treasury Department to pay for what congress has already spent. But, as i said, its always a tough vote. People dont like doing it. Although it has been done 45 times since Ronald Reagan took office. Nobody in the past has ever seriously threatened to breach the debt ceiling until the last two years. And this is the creditworthiness of the United States were talking about. This is our word. This is our good name. This is real. And the Government Shutdown millions of americans faced convenience or outright hardship, in an economic shutdown, every american could see their 401 k s and home values fall, borrowing costs for mortgages and Student Loans rise, and there would be a significant risk of a very deep recession at a time when were still climbing our way out of the worst recession in our lifetimes. The American People have fought too hard and too long to come back from one crisis, only to see a handful of more extreme republicans in the house of representatives precipitate another one. The good news is over the past three and a half years, our business created 7. 5 million more jobs, we cut the deficit in half since i took office. The deficit is coming down faster than any time in the last 50 years. Americas poised to become the Number One Energy producer in the world this year. This year for first time in a very long time were producing more oil than were importing. We got a lot of good things going for us, but the uncertainty caused by one week of this nonsense has caused businesses to reconsider spending and hiring and consumer evidence plunge to the lowest level since 2008. Youve seen held up by thousands of home buyers who werent sure about the Economic Situation out there. It adds to the deficit, doesnt subtract from it. We cant afford these manufactured crises every few months. As i said, this one isnt even about deficits or spending or budgets. Our deficits are falling at the fastest pace in 60 years. The budget that the Senate Passed is at republican spending levels. Its their budget. The democrats want to put votes on to make sure the government was open while negotiations took place for a longer term budget. Whats happened, the way we got to this point was one thing and one thing only and that was republican obsession with dismantling the Affordable Care act and denying health care to millions of people. That law ironically is moving forward. So most americans, democrats and republicans agree that health care should not have anything to do with keeping our government open or paying our bills on time. Which is why i will sit down and work with anyone of any party, not only to talk about the budget. Ill talk about ways to improve the health care system. Ill talk about ways that we can shrink our long term deficits. Ill also want to talk about how were going to help the middle class and strengthen Early Childhood education and improve inf infrastructure and research and development. All kinds of things i want to talk about in terms of making sure everybody is getting a fair shake in this economy and building our middle class. By the way, if anybody doubts my sincerity about that, i put forward proposals in my budget to reform entitlement programs for long haul and reform the tax code that close loopholes for the wealthiest and help us invest in new jobs and reduce our deficits. Some of these were originally republican proposals. Because i dont believe any party has a monopoly on good ideas. Ive shown myself willing to go more than halfway in these conversations. And if Reasonable Republicans want to talk about these things again, im ready to head to the hill and try. Ill even spring for dinner again. Im not going to do it until the more extreme parts of the Republican Party stop forcing john boehner to issue threats about our economy. We cant make extortion routine as part of our democracy. Democracy doesnt function this way. And this is not just for me, its also for my successors in office, whatever party they are from, they shouldnt have to pay r ransom for congress doing its job. Already this week i had to miss critical meetings in asia, promote american jobs and businesses. As long as we get this fixed, thats not long term damage. Whenever we do these things, it hurts our credibility around the world. It makes it look like we dont have our act together. Thats not something we should welcome. The greatest nation on earth shouldnt have to get permission from a few irresponsible members of Congress Every month to keep our government open to prevent and economic catastrophe. Lets pass a budget and end the Government Shutdown and pay our bills and lets avert an economic shutdown. Lets drop the gimmicks and put aside whats good for any particular party and lets focus on whats good for the American People because they know weve got a lot of work to do. With that, let me take a couple of questions and ill start with julie of ap. Obviously if congress does pass a clean cr those may just be short term measures. If that happens, does injure offer to negotiate with them on issues Like Health Care and spending still stand in the intervening weeks they pass a budget that perhaps six weeks or absolutely. What ive said is that i will talk about anything. What will happen is we wont agree on everything. The truth is that the parties are pretty divided on a whole bunch of big issues right now. Everybody understands that. By the way, voters are divided on a lot of issues too. I recognize theres some house members, Republican House members where i got clobbered in the last election. And they dont get politically rewarded a lot for being seen as negotiating with me. And that makes it harder for divided government to come together. But im willing to work through all of those issues. The only thing that our democracy cant afford is a situation where one side says unless i get my way and only my way, unless i get concessions before we even start having a serious give and take, ill threaten to shut down the government or i will threaten to not pay americas bills. So you know, i will not eliminate any topic of conversation. Ive shown myself willing to engage all of the parties involved, every leading, on any issue. That applies no matter how long the time frame is on the bills they would pass . The only thing i will say is that were not going to pay a ransom for america paying its bills. Thats something that should be nonnegotiable and everybody should agree on that. Everybody should say, one of the most valuable things we have is americas creditworthiness. This is not something we should even come close to fooling around with. When i read people saying, this wouldnt be a big deal, we should test it out. But lets take default out for a spin and see how it rides. I say imagine in your private life if you decided that im not going to pay my mortgage for a month or two, first of all youre not saving money by not paying your mortgage. Youre just a dead beat. And you can anticipate that will hurt your credit. Which means that in addition to debt collectors calling, youre going to have trouble borrowing in the future. In youre able to borrow in future, it will be a higher rate. Whats true for individuals is also true for nations, even the most powerful nation on earth. And if we are creating an atmosphere in which people are not sure whether or not we pay our bills on time, then that will have a severe longterm impact on our economy and on americas standard of living. And thats not something that we should even be in a conversation about. That is not something that we should be using as leverage. You laid out the economic consequences of the default, but if we were to get to that point, would you prioritize and pay bond holders first to maintain ass assem ambulance of and how would you go ahead and make that determination . Im going to continue to be very hopeful that congress does not put us in that position. And i think if people understand what the consequences are, they will set that potential scenario aside. I do know there have been some who have said that if we just pay bond holders, just pay people who bought treasury bills, that we really wont be in default because those Interest Payments will be made and to them what i have to remind them is, we have a lot of other obligations, not just people who pay treasury bills. We have Senior Citizens counting on their Social Security arriving on time. We have veterans who are disabled who are counting on their benefits. We have companies who are doing business for our government and for our military that have payrolls that they have to meet. And if they do get not get paid on time, they may have to layoff workers. All of those folks are potentially affected if we are not able to pay all of our bills on time. Whats also true if the markets are seeing were not paying all of our bills on time, that will affect our credit worthiness, even if some people are being paid on time. So again, just to boil this down to personal examples, if you got a mortgagor car note and a student loan you have to pay, and you say, im going to make sure i pay my mortgage but not going to pay my student loan or car note, thats going to have an impact on your credit. Everybody is still going to look at that and say, you know what, im not sure that person is this trust worthy. At minimum, presumably they are going to charge a higher interest rate. Thats what would happen to you if you made those decisions. The same is true for the federal government. So we are exploring all contingencies. I know the secretary lew, the secretary of treasury will be appearing before congress on thursday and can address some of the Additional Details about this. Let me be clear. No option is good in that scenario. Theres no silver bullet, theres no magic wand that allows us to wish away the chaos that could result if for first time in our history we dont pay our bills on time. When i hear people trying to down play the consequences of that, i think thats really irresponsible. Im happy to talk to any of them individually and walk them through exactly why its irresponsible. Its particularly funny coming from republicans who claim to be champions of business. Theres no business person out here who thinks this wouldnt be a big deal, not one. You go to anywhere from wall street to main street and ask a ceo of a company or Small Business person whether it would be a big deal if the United States government isnt paying its bills on time. Theyll tell you its a big deal, it would hurt. And its unnecessary, thats the worst part of it. And this is not a complicated piece of business. And theres no reason why if in fact republicans are serious about wanting to negotiate, want to have a conversation or talk, no reason why you have to have the threat looming over the conversations. I mean, think about it, the only reason that the republicans have held out on negotiations up until last week or so, is because they thought it was big enough deal they would force unilateral concessions out of democrats and out of me. They said so. They basically said, you know what, the president is so responsible that if we just hold our breath and say were going to threaten default, then hell give us what we want and we wont have to give anything in return. Again, thats not my account of the situation. You can read statements from republicans over the last several months of who said this explicitly. And so for them now to say it wouldnt be a big deal if it happens, thats not how theyve been acting over the last couple of months. If its not a big deal, why would i give concessions now to avoid it . It is a big deal and nobody should be getting concessions for making sure that the full faith and credit of the United States is retained. Sam stein. Thank you, mr. President. What assurances can you give to those affected by the shutdown who are concerned about and how worried are you personally that your preferred solution to this is clean cr and sequestration levels may do harm to the economy and second term . Youre making an important point, which is what were asking of the republicans right now is to keep the government open at funding levels that democrats think are very harmful to the economy and inadequate to make sure that the economy is growing faster and more people are put back to work and middle class is growing. Were willing to pass at least a shortterm budget that opens up the government at current funding levels. It doesnt even address the harm thats been done because of sequestration. Now, the democrats have a budget that would eliminate sequestration, this meat cleefr approach to deficit funding and basic medical research and head start programs and va programs and whole range of things that have been really hard hit this year. We recognize there are going to be compromises between the democratic position and republican position, and in the meantime we shouldnt hurt the economy worse by shutting down the government. Let me just give you an example, very specific. Because of sequestration, because of the meat cleaver cuts over the course of this year, thousands of families have lost head start slots for their children. Youve got parents all across the country who have been scrambling trying to figure out how can i find some decent quality child care for my kids. And now the Government Shutdown means several thousand more are going to be losing their slots. If we vote today or tomorrow or the next day, in the house of representatives to go ahead and reopen government, at least those additional several thousand people will be spared the difficulties of trying to scramble and figure out where your kids are going to be when youre going to work. But it doesnt solve the broader problems. If we were going to real negotiations, the democrats would say, lets solve the bigger problem. What about the thousands who have been hurt by sequester . The democrats arent making that demand right now, we understand theres going to have to be give and take. Were saying dont hurt more people while were trying to resolve these differences. Lets just at least make sure that we keep the lights on while were having these conversations. [ inaudible ] absolutely. How weve always done it. Roberta. Youve talked about the hint to credibility around the world that the impasse has caused. Im wondering what you and your administration are telling foreign competitors, china and japan calling and asking about whether the United States is going to avoid defaulting on its debt. I Wont Disclose specific conversations but obviously my message to the world is the United States always has paid its bills and it will do so again. But i think they are not just looking at what they but what congress does. And that ultimately is up to Speaker Boehner. This will not get resolved. Were not going to calm creditors until they see Speaker Boehner call up a bill that reopens the government and authorizes the secretary of treasury to pay bills on time. Until they see that, theres going to be a cloud over u. S. Economic credibility. But it is not one from which we cant recover. Weve been through this before. You know, every country, every democracy in particular, has tousles over the budget and most World Leaders understand it, they themselves have been through it if they are in a democracy. What you havent seen before, i think from the Vantage Point of a lot of World Leaders, is the notion that one party in Congress Might blow the whole thing up if they dont get their way. Theyve never seen that before. And that does make them nervous. Particularly given what happened in 2011. Keep in mind, weve been here before. We saw what happened in 2011. I think the assumption was that the americans must have learned their lesson, that there would be budget conflicts but nobody again would threaten the possibility that we would default. And when they hear members of the senate and members of congress saying maybe default wouldnt be that bad, ill bet that makes them nervous, it makes me nervous. It should make the American People nervous because thats irresponsible. It is out of touch with reality. It is based on a flawed analysis of how our economy works. You cannot pay some bills and not others and think somehow that the fact that youre paying some bills protects you from a loss of credit worthiness, thats not what happens in our own personal lives, i dont know why people think thats how it works for the United States government we have used a lot of Emergency Powers, jack lew has used extraordinary measures to keep paying our bills over the last several months. But at a certain point those Emergency Powers run out and the clock ticks. And i do worry that republicans but also some democrats may think weve got a bunch of other rab bits in our hat. There comes a point in which if the treasury cannot hold options to sell treasury bills, we do not have enough money coming in to pay all of our bills on time. Its very straightforward. I know theres been some discussion, for example, about my powers under the 14th amendment to go ahead and ignore the debt ceiling law, sitting aside the legal analysis, what matters is that if you start having a situation in which theres legal controversy about the u. S. Treasurys authority to issue debt, the damage will have be done even if that were constitutional because people wouldnt be sure. It would be tied up in litigation for a long time. Thats going to make people nervous. So a lot of the strategies that the people have talked about, well, the president can roll out a big coin and he can resort to some other constitutional measure, what people ignore is that ultimately what matters is what are the people who are buying treasury bills think . Ill boil it down if very personal terms. If youre buying a house and youre not sure whether the seller has title to the house, youre going to be pretty nervous about buying it. And at minimum, you would want to a much to buy that house because you wouldnt be sure if youre going to own it. Most would walk away, no matter how much we like the house, the last theng i want is to find out after i bought it that i dont actually own it. The same thing is true if im buying treasury bills from the u. S. Government and here i am sitting here what if theres a spring court case deciding that these arent valid, these arent valid legal instruments oblig e obligating the u. S. Government to pay me. Im going to be stressed. Which means i may not purchase them. If i do purchase them, im going to ask for a big premium. There are no magic bullets here. Theres one simple way of doing it and that is Congress Going ahead and voting. The fact that right now there are votes, i believe, to go ahead and take this drama off the table should at least be tested. Speaker boehner keeps on saying he doesnt have the votes for it. What ive said is, put it on the floor, see what happens. At minimum, let every member of congress be on record. Let them vote to keep the government open or not. And they can determine where they stand and defend the vote to their constituencies and let them vote on whether or not america should pay its bills or not. And if in fact some of the these folks really believe that its not that big of a deal, they can vote no. And that will be useful information for voters to have. If it fails and we do end up defaulting, i think voters should know exactly who voted not to pay our bills. So they can be responsible for the consequences that come with it. Harry shapiro. You mentioned the Supreme Court and term started with the Campaign Finance case. With Citizens United devastating to the public interest, i wouldnt der if you can weigh in on the latest case . It would go even further than Citizens United. Essentially would say anything goes. There are no rules in terms of how to finance campaigns. There arent a lot of functioning democracies around the world that work this way, where you can basically have millionaires and billionaires bank rolling whoever they want, however they want and in some cases undisclosed. And what it means is ordinary americans are shut out of the process. And democrats arent entirely innocent of this in the past. And i had to raise a lot of money for my campaign. So i theres nobody who operates in politics that has perfectly clean hands on this issue. But what is also true is that all of us should bind ourselves to some rules that say the people who vote for us should be more important than somebody who is spending a million dollars, 10 million or 100 million to help us get ee leked. We dont know what their agendas are or interests are. And i continue to believe that Citizens United contributed to some of the problems were having in washington right now. You have an extremist with a big bank roll, they can skew our politics and there are a whole bunch of members of congress rit now who privately will tell you i know our positions are unreasonable but were scared that if we dont go along with the Tea Party Agenda or some particularly extremist agenda that well be challenged from the right explicit and toe the line. Normal routine Business Done here in washington on behalf of the American People. All of you know it. Im not telling you anything you dont know because its very explicit, you report on it. Big chunk of the Republican Party right now is are in gerrymandered districts where theres no competition and those folks are much more worried about a Tea Party Challenger than they are about a general election where they are going to compete against a democrat or go after independent votes. And that environment its a lot harder for them to compromise. Mark . Thank you, mr. President. This week the president of china visited several of the Asian Countries that you were going to visit and had to skip because of the shutdown. Hes also taken a big role at the two regional sum mits, both of which your administration has made a pretty big priority of as part of the broader asian does china benefit from the chaos in washington . More broadly you said in general this hurts the reputation of the United States overseas, are there specific things you can point to where you already have seen some damage and one that occurs to me is the trade deal in asia, the leaders today announce they still want to wrap it up but no longer want to wrap it up by the end of the year. Had you been there, do you think you could have gotten that additional push . I think thats a great example. And we dont know but it didnt help that i wasnt there to make sure that we went ahead and closed a trade deal that would open up markets and create jobs for the United States and make sure that countries were trading fairly with us in the most dynamic Fastest Growing market in the world. I should have been there. But i can tell you because i had to apologize to the host countries that they understood that the most important thing i can do for them and most important thing i can do for bilateral relationship in americas reputation is making sure we reopen our government and dont default. So i dont think its going to be lasting damage. As i said, if we deal with this the way we should, then you know, folks around the world will attribute this to the usual messy process of american democracy. But it doesnt do lasting damage. In the short term, ill characterize it as missed opportunities. We continue to be the one indispensable nation, there are countries across asia who have welcomed our pivot because they want to do business with us. They admire our economy and admire our entrepreneurs and know that their growth is going to be contingent on working with us, they care about the security environment that we maintain, helped maintain and freedom of navigation and commerce that is so important to them. So its not as if theyve got our places to go. They want us to be there and they want to work with us. But you know, in each of these big meetings that we have arp the world, a lot of business gets done. In the same way that ceo of a company, if they want to close a deal, arent going to do it by phone. They want to show up and look at somebody eye to eye and tell them why its important and shake hands on a deal. The same thing is true with respect to World Leaders. And irony is, that our teams probably do more to organize a lot of multilateral forums and set the agenda than anybody. We end up being engaged much more than china for example, in setting the agenda and moving this stuff forward. So when its almost like me not throwing a not showing up to my own party. I think it creates a sense of concern on the part of other leaders but as long as we get through this, theyll understand it and well be able to i believe still get these deals done. The last point i would make though is, we cant do it every three months. Right . I mean, back in the 90s, we had a Government Shutdown, happened one time. Then after that, the Republican Party and mr. Gingrich realized this suspect a sensible way to do business. We shouldnt engage in brinkzsmanship like this and started to have a serious conversation with president clinton about a whole range of issues and got things they wanted. They had to give the democrats some things that the democrats wanted. But it took on a a sense of normal democratic process. So here we already went through this back in 2011. Then last year, right after my election, we went through something similar with the socalled fiscal cliff where republicans wont negotiate about taxes despite the fact the taxes went up anyway, and even though they refused to negotiate, some things from us that they wanted if they had been willing to engage in negotiations. Weve got to stop repeating this pattern. I know the American People are tired. I apologize that you have to go through this stuff every three months it seems like. And lord knows im tired of it. But at some point weve got to kind of break these habits. And get back to the point where everybody understands that in negotiations there is give and there is take. You do not hold people hostage or engage in ransom taking to get 100 of your way. You dont you dont suggest that somehow a Health Care Bill that you dont agree with is destroying the republic or is a grand socialist scheme. If you disagree with certain aspects, tell us what you disagree with and lets work on it. If youre concerned about long term debt, thats a good thing to be concerned about. But. N dont pretend that americ is going bankrupt at a time when the deficits have been cut in half. Thats what the American People expect, just civility, common sense, give a take and compromise. Those arent dirty words, theres nothing wrong with them. And you know, i think the American People understand, i may i have flaws. Michelle will tell you. One of them is not that im unwilling to compromise. Ive been willing to compromise my entire political career. And i dont believe that i have the answers to everything and its my way or the highway. But im not going to breach a basic principle that would weaken the presidency, change our democracy and do great damage to ordinary people just in order to go along with what the House Republicans are talking about. Okay. Ask specifically about china and im wondering what it says our loss, their gain. Im sure the chinese dont mind that im not there right now. In the sense that there are areas where we have differences and they can present their point of view and not get as much of push back if i were there. Although secretary of state kerry is there and im sure hes doing a great job. Ive also said that our cooperation with china