♪ welcome back to "morning joe." great to have you with us. john mcdonogh high school, we learned a lot. we learned what could happen when you get partnerships with companies like starbucks. we want to thank you, cliff. thank you, arthur and the school. >> we can talk about what we learned or what we earned, today. how much so far for this school? >> over $200,000 so far. the donations keep coming in. and that's what is happening in the "morning joe" starbucks community. and also of course other people chipping in, too. we are grateful. this is a great start. guys, thank you so much. >> thank you. >> we want to thank everybody here. the volunteers, very inspirat n inspirational. we are going to do cgreat. >> by the way, digger is a crazy old man. when he decided he needed a basketball floor, he googled companies and called them out on the air, and we apologize. >> we have to get a full service hospital. please, we have to get a hospital. >> and then julia, thank you so much. we appreciate you being here. >> where is barnicle? >> he is already over at the liquid lounge. >> he is looking at the honeybees. >> what is your name? >> hugo? >> you go home, joe. >> okay. very good. willie geist, if it's way too early what time is it? >> "morning joe" live from john mcdoan yoe high school. and it's time for the morning meeting. shocking news, brady went head to head with tim geithner, and he will be our guest. and arlen specter will be here. how heated does he think it's getting on health care this saturday night. and now democrats are scrambling on the jobs front as 1 in 7 mortgages in the country delinquent or in foreclosure. happy friday to you. with that said, i am dylan ratigan, and this is the "morning meeting." and former new york governor, eliot spitzer, and jonathan capehart, and then nbc's mike viqueira, and kevin tibles. all 60 of the democrats, vick, how do we look here? is there anything, any last-minute tricks that can be pulled? >> a lot of winking and nodding going up along the democratic leadership. nelson, and landrieu and lincoln, they think will come onboard at the last minute. >> governor? >> harry reid will cut any deal to get to the 60. this is the initiation point. this is fire to the starting gun. and then they will duty serious bargaining, and then the house and the senate gets together months to go but will happen on saturday night. >> to the growing chorus of lawmakers questioning why tim geithner still has a job. brady calling for the secretary to resign just yesterday. and brady's fellow congressman asking why he was hired. >>ed president just got back from the 10-day trip from overseas last night. and the white house is defending geithner. and when he was nominated, he was the man that knew what needed to be done, and now he is getting criticism from both sides as you point out. the white house says look, there are miss steps. >> the question is what brought us back from the brink is the bush policy of throwing trillions at the banks. and so i think they are in a very dicey situation. they have to come up with something different. >> did the treasury secretary think he works to preserve the banks and not the future of the economy? >> well, this is what is coming through, on whose behalf is he negotiating. i am not sure he understands he is there to protect citizens and taxpayers instead of the banks. that is a major problem. >> thank you, governor. talk show queen oprah wintry says she is done. in less than an hour, she will announce she is ending her show after 25 years. and then it will not end until 2011. and this is quite the bombshell, kevin. >> well, she may be done, but she is not quite done just yet. it's going to be over a year before she actually gets on the bus and starts to head towards the west coast where she will have the oprah network. with all the big fancy beltway names with regards to politics and health care and everything else, only one real person in the nation wit matters when it comes to the subjects, and she is right here in chicago and she will pull a plug on the venture that has been here for 25 years. >> fans don't have to worry that much. she will be going to the network. who is going to be taking over that big spot, the coveted spot. >> we both looked at each other. and moving along, democrats getting nervous. my question, should not the we figure out where the money went from the first stimulus package before we allocate more, and should not the we fix the system before we dumped the money into it. you understand the dynamics around job creation. are the democrats in trouble here? >> of course we are in trouble. if we don't get jobs back in the economy, the public will say we have not succeeded. and we need to cut back on payroll taxes, which will stimulate medium taxes or have a government jobs program, a direct employment program, and those are the options, and a lot of debates within economic circles which is a combination of if those options will work. none of this is easy. >> vick? >> well, here is an idea. how about repurposing the second half of the stimulus towards the infrastructure programs the governor is talking about, and not only the intellectual inf infrastructu infrastructure, but the roads and the rest. we don't need more evidence to see that than what we saw yesterday in the finance committee and the brady set with geithner. >> not to mention a single circuit blew out in the aviation system, and it grounded the aviation system. meanwhile, when the president goes over to china, it's like a high school kid is being told by the parents, you are miss spending your allowance. >> i have a movie for you. we cannot run through the headlines on a friday without talking about the "twilight" n sequel. does anybody on this panel know anything about "twilight." raise your hand. nothing. >> this is a big deal. unless you have been living under a rock, i think everybody knows what "twilight" is. and you know that there is a "twilight" craze going on right now. >> is that you, kevin? >> yeah, i did this story last year when this phase first came out with "twilight" and they had lineups around the block, and kids were sleeping on the street. i used the same line last year and i hope it's not old and i went home and asked my daughter, what in heaven's name was that, and her response was dad you are not going to get it, you are too old. but it's out again. >> all right. thank you all for a bit of fun at the top. more important than that getting through the rundown in fine fashion. and we just started here at the "morning meeting." planes, trains and auto mobile structure. we ask, is america's infrastructure crumbling and sho should the stimulus money to go to that? we are are joined live by texas republican, kevin brady, our first news maker of the day right after this. ♪ a long-awaited journey in aisle 10? ♪ yeah. because when you save money on the little things, it adds up to life's more amazing things. walmart saves the average family $3,100 a year no matter where you shop. what will you do with your savings? 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>> we are in emerald city right now. toto just ran underneath the curtain, and we are about to see the man behind the curtain and what he is up to? >> what do you think is behind the curtain? >> being a bank no longer pays money to pay money. so the government legalized much higher profit ways to do it in secret, and basically the federal reserve is their back end. are we on our way to restoring laws for lending in this country? >> capitalism requires rewarding success and punishing failure. that was said almost a century ago. and we have seen reward on wall street, but nothing for failure, not when the fed is handing out blank checks. elliott spencer is with us. share with everybody what you just said to me, we are in a high stake situation where we are playing deal with the truth or continue to run? >> yeah, and i think the congressman's metaphor was great, and we saw tim geithner who was behind the curtain, and we need to protect individual institutions, and still bare to the world what went wrong. greenspan got it wrong over and over and over. and until we put this on the table we cannot correct it. >> the solution has been the graphic here. it's to print as much money as humanly possible. and when the chickens came home to roost last year, they turned on the printer. >> the cost of money to the big banks is zero. you can play in the casino, and they don't lend to businesses to make money, and they lend overseas. and nothing something lending to job growth. >> so the u.s. taxpayer is giving money to the government, both the treasury and federal reserve, and those institutions are giving that to the banks and are using it to gamble or take offshore? >> yeah, that's right. this model is broken. this is the model that they have been perpetrating, socializing risk and privatizing is not what works. >> i will take a break. next up on the agenda, congressman brady, another man confused for reasons the governor and myself and the democratic congressman were just discussing. why does tim geithner still have a job? we will find out why he is asking and what the white house thinks about it. if obama was captured today, how would u.s. treat him? would he be treated like any other criminal, or have we created too dangerous to prosecute? we will talk about how we deal with all the issues right after this. olay professional pro-x wrinkle protocol is as effective as the leading wrinkle prescription brand at reducing the look of wrinkles. that's because olay has teamed with a highly specialized group of dermatologists and created a wrinkle protocol that gives you the results of the leading wrinkle prescription brand, without a prescription. olay professional pro-x. this is a guarantee you're guaranteed to love. i thought i was in great shape. so i was surprised when my doctor told me i still had high cholesterol. that really hit me, and got me thinking about my health. i knew i had to get my cholesterol under control. but exercise and eating healthy weren't enough for me. now i trust my heart to lipitor. 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(announcer) have a heart to heart with your doctor about your cholesterol. and about lipitor. for the sake of our jobs will you step down? >> congressman, it was a great pref linlg for me to serve the president. i think almost nothing you said is representing a accurate look. >> gentlemen, time expired. >> well, another top news maker joins the "morning meeting" right now. that was congressman brady yesterday calling for tim geithner to step down during a hearing before the joint economic hearing. congressman brady thank you for joining us. the white house defending geithn geithner. and they said he is staering us back from the brink. how do you look at that? >> i look at the growing job loss and the stimulus which is a comedy joke, and the business community, staying away from making decisions and frightened about what is happening in washington. new reports about the sweetest deal aig counter parties got. and it's just not me. it's a growing number of democrats, and a growing number of republicans and now the american public is saying they don't have confidence in the president's ability to handle the economy, and that's because of secretary geithner. >> add to it the collapse in small business lending, 1 in 7 mortgages in foreclosure or delinquent. we know it's a disaster. i guess i am trying to get a sense of the tension that exists between not just you but the entire congress or at least parts of the congress and the white house, because it feels like the congress is getting this, and now finding itself in opposition to the white house. both republicans and democrats. >> yeah, really a disconnect between the white house on this issue. i think the fact that you have 10 months in a job summit, when jobs are the number one issue on everybody's mind, when you keep defending a stimulus that has gone from the embarrassing to now the bizarre in the reporting and then when the debt is so deep, i mean, we are getting lecture from france and china about the financial house being in disorder and other countries looking at replacing us as a reserve currency, all of those are red flags. for the president's sake, as peter defauzo said, he needs a new economic team, and i agree. >> brady, you already made yourself clear. and then defozio, and michael bur jis, another texas republican, and then another on the show saying she did not know why geithner has a job. we are heading to a core of bipartisan calls for the white house to do something about the people that have custody over america's wealth. >> yeah, and i think if the job numbers continue to go south, which they are, and the deficit continues to rise, i think the poll numbers again for the president will continue to go south. i think it's time for a new change. i will tell you what really piqued by interest, i compared the job performance this year versus the major counterparts from asia, and europe and australia and canada, and we are the worse performing jobs economy of any of the major competitors, bar none. >> but you can make a lot of money on wall street, congressman? >> apparently so. apparently so. >> thank you for your time. a republican out of texas. governor spitzer still with me. this is the most important issue in this country which is what are the rules for the way our current and future wealth will be deployed by the government. right now it's given to the banks. >> yeah, tim geithner has a model -- >> what does that mean? >> everything is run through the insurance companies and the big banks they control the assets. >> the cars and everything, the houses. >> and what they are doing with the currently flow is shipping it overseas or playing games with it. >> basically, the banks and insurance companies get control of all assets, and then they lease or loan houses, cars to human beings, and then they trade -- >> yeah, and they are not lending to the small, medium sized businesses that will create the jobs. that's where the smaller banks used to provide a critical measure? >> why should they lend to those small businesses when it's not profitable not to? >> yeah, when we gave the money to them without requiring them lend we made an egregious mistake, and tim geithner doesn't believe he should ask them to do anything. >> do you think tim geithner works on behalf of the banking system or on behalf of america? >> he thinks the two go together and they don't go together. he says they were there on behalf of aig, negotiating on behalf of aig, and i read that and thought he should be representing the taxpayer and citizens, and this dichotomy makes me wonder, he represented the banks and that's what he thought he was doing. >> enjoy "twilight" or whatever it may be. >> that's for my kids. one of the masterminds of the 9/11 terror attacks, enough with the banks, will they try him here in the u.s.? they say they will. what would happen if we were to capture the ultimate terrorists in bin laden? is there anybody, and how many of them are there, too dangerous to prosecute? we are back after this. has better highway mileage than a comparable honda civic. this chevy traverse has better mileage than honda pilot. the all-new chevy equinox has better mileage than honda cr-v. and chevy malibu has better mileage than accord. however, honda does make something that we just can't compete with. it's self propelled. chevy. compare us to anyone and may the best car win. i just want fewer pills and relief that lasts all day. take 2 extra strength tylenol every 4 to 6 hours?!? 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>> if you captured bin laden and told him he could remain silence, he would not remain silent. when you are dealing with the military, of course, they don't know miranda, and they are not in that game. as a matter of fact, they will conduct battlefield interrogations immediately, individual rights are out the door in an attempt to get act n actionable intelligence, and so that's not a possibility. the possibility that bin laden would be taken down by the military is also very remote. here is the problem. and it even existed with khalid shaikh mohammed. even a year or two after the first water boarding would not be admissible under court, because there would be an expectation on his part he would be waterboarded again. but the authorities believe they have enough evidence aside from anything that he said during interrogations to convict him on the charges surrounding 9/11. the same would probably hold true on osama bin laden. i understand lindsay graham's point, but when you are talking about these characters, it probably doesn't matter. >> let's not forget, bin laden has been indicted in civilian court. right here in the southern district of new york. if erp going to make a motion to put him in any other jurisdiction, we would have to with draw that indictment. there is evidence proving his role in al qaeda and acknowledged his role on 9/11, and bin laden before was directly involved in picking individuals who were going to carry out terrorists attacks against the united states. does he have this kind of information for future terrorists attacks? will he provide that? is it worth going down the road of enhanced interrogation techniques to just get at what he might have or may have versus what we know we can already prosecute him for? >> let's deal with the concept of too dangerous to prosecute or the third class of prisoner. how do you begin and what is your respective thought? >> well, on the field of battle you have one set of rules and then capturing somebody and bringing them back here and prosecute them in a court. i think that's the model for how you handle these types of dangerous war criminals. but the fact of a trail it elevates at every level every principle we believe in. >> it creates a terrorists threat -- >> yeah, always a risk of that. but the reality is either they will be taken overseas in the military context or if we capture them we can bring them back here and handle it and win the verdict. >> and the evidence after waterboarding? >> it will not be suppressed. they will say this type of interrogation may not have been proper, but the evidence will be weighed by the jury as to the credibility. >> pentagon thoughts a couple days in to how this trial debate is proceeding? >> well, as far as the pentagon -- i can tell you some people in the pentagon are glad to get rid of the five guys. the 9/11 coconspirators and turn them over to civilian court. and president obama himself has told the american people that there probably are a handful of these detainees at guantanamo that will never be able to try in court because of the information was obtained from them but will never be set free either. >> you have a bunch of guys sitting down there from yemen, who we know little about and have little background on. the only information we have on is collected in the field, and how do you prosecute these guys and present the evidence? it's troubling. >> we don't know what those cases are. but that's where the white house will have the toughest time with their liberal friends. they are saying are you saying permanent detention without a trial and evidence, and i am sure the white house is correct as a matter of secure they will have to figure out a legal strategy. >> anything on that subject? >> not yet, but i will make a call and tell you on monday. well, do they feel holder is going down the right road? >> i think the white house is going to support the attorney general and the decision that he has made. after all, the white house put it all on the department of justice to handle this, but i do think that the hearings -- the attorney general has been sitting through that question from lindsay graham, and i think it's going to be a flash point for, if indeed, they do capture bin laden. these are tricky legal questions as governor spitzer pointed out, and we are in the murky area of putting our principles and our legal traditions on the one hand and then facing people who really want to do the nation harm on the other. can the system handle it? i think it can. >> and as a political matter, if we capture him, the only thing that president obama would have to say, eight years of president bush we did not capture him, and we did, and president obama will win that and rightly so. >> it's a pleasure to see you, governor. i mean it this time, see you later, but not right after this. a suicide bomber on a motorcycle detonated explosives in a crowded square in afghanistan this morning. at least 16 people were killed including two children and a policeman. the attack comes a day after karzai promised to put reconciliation of insurgency at the top of the national agenda. parts of england are under water now. massive flooding in a tourists region. britains air force rescued people stranded in the water. severe thunderstorm warnings are still in place. and texas sized thunderstorms could cause problems for the state today. let's get to bill karins. we are looking at some folks traveling, and this is going to be the bad spot in the nation? >> yeah, some people have all of next week off. we are looking ahead towards the big travel week. today, houston airport, san antonio and dallas ft. worth. everybody wake up with us out there, wet weather through oreg oregon, and washington state, and areas of northern california. san francisco airport already delays of an hour and a half as you start your morning commute. as far as friday forecast, anybody traveling through texas, we mentioned the rain there. and boston, thunderstorms currently but it will get better as you go throughout the day. and then the weekend here, heavy rain spreads along the gulf and then we have the storm system dealing with in the north west, and then the storm will head up the eastern seaboard. and contessa, dylan likes to go on the limb a lot and i will too, your wednesday travel day for next week, looks really, really nice. and the turkey day forecast, nothing like being wrong eight days ahead -- >> did you say dylan likes to go out on the limb? is that the underestimate of the century! dylan -- >> i have a firm grip. i am excited that thanksgiving will be nice. lots more coming up here on the "morning meeting." shut up and deal. that's the new catchphrase in the country, but is it a talker or legitimate trend? we will discuss that after this. ♪ sometimes it's the little things, like the rich, creamy taste of cool whip, that turns a moment into a memory. the one and only cool whip. make the moment. make it cool whip. i switched to a complete multivitamin with more. only one a day women's 50+ advantage... has gingko for memory and concentration. plus support for bone and breast health. just what i need! one a day women's. welcome back to a special edition of the break room "morning joe," as you likely know in new orleans raising hundreds of thousands of dollars for a high school. and joe scarborough joins us and digger phelps has a story to share. what is going on? >> it's amazing stuff. we teamed up with starbucks, brewing together to come to john mcdonogh high school, and starbucks saw a hole in the auditorium, and it has been damaged since katrina. now kids will go into the auditorium when it rains again. there was an embarrassing moment, also. digger phelps, former notre dame coach, president crazy man, he decided that he wanted a new floor. he saw the floor and said it's hard as a rock and kids will get injured here and it's messed up, and so he went -- he went on google and he found a company to call out, and never talked to them. but he demand and said come out here and fix this floor in a crazy way, and we learned this morning, digger phelps, you don't need the government, but you need google. willie, tell us the story. >> we were celebrating the facts that there were basketballs donated, and digger said we need a floor. and we got on google. and robin sports services. and we go on the air, and digger says, robin put a floor in the gym, and we will tell you what happened next. joe? >> you are lying in bed in new orleans. >> yes, i am in bed in new orleans, and my ceo said hey you need to go over to mcdonogh, and they just called us out, a robins dealer, and then an e-mail saying can you get over there, and i said yeah, i think i am a mile away. i went to the car and went to mcdonogh 35 first, and then i got over here, and i called robins, and between the sports system and the flooring company, we will get a new floor in here. >> that's fantastic. >> so at the time digger called them out on the air, it was two hours when he was in the door measuring the floor. >> you made a promise to cornelius today, they need a new floor he would get a new floor, and you need google, right? >> yeah, you give the kids the facilitie facilities, the right people around them, a great principal and faculties and teachers, and i said the court the lakers won on a court built by robins. this kid is a freshman, and i want a floor here so when he is a senior, this school wins the state championship. >> principal, i want to say this quickly, and everybody is important, dylan, and everybody talks about the tragedy of katrina. a lot of hope coming out of this. this school last year, devastated by hurricane katrina, for people that started your senior year, over 90% gradua graduatation rate. you are doing something right. >> yeah, and it's a positive learning environment, and this helps the environment that we are trying to create for the kids. and it's important not only in the classroom, but the environment in which these donations are helping us to create. >> and joe, a new member of the "morning joe" extended family. >> yeah, dylan, that's the real "morning joe." >> yeah, thank you for coming forward. thank you, author and starbucks, and digger, and everybody. robins, thank you so much. we appreciate it. >> dylan, very exciting times down here. a lot of things happening and we are excited about it. >> it's very exciting. who needs google for government, when you have google and guts. thank you for the update, joe. we will see you on monday on "morning joe." trend or talker is next here. lots more coming up here on the "morning meeting" as a house committee postponing the key vote on regulating the banks because of double digits unemployment, and rising foreclosures, and collapsing small business lending and record bank profits. more and more democrats demanding the white house fix the money money and stop with the fuzzy math. job losses throwing the they do? we'll talk about it later in the show. the ability to gracefully accept compliments this is onstar reporting a stolen blue chevy tahoe, south on i-75, near exit 5. we're on it. onstar, we may have that tahoe. ok, i'll flash the lights. we got it. it's in the clear. i'm sending a signal to cut the power. we got him. mr. ross, the police have recovered your tahoe. try it!! now, that's what i'm talking about!! 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( cluck, cluck, cluck ) oh, wowww ! that's fun ! you didn't say could have a real one. well, you didn't ask. even kids know when it's wrong to hold out on somebody. why don't banks ? we're ally, a new bank that alerts you when your money could be worki harder d earning more. it's just the right thing to do. all right. time for a little trend or talker. joining the conversation is christi -- chrystia freeland. unemployment, mortgages, plenty to worry about these days. some people say stop the wining. time for today's trend or talker? is shut up and deal the new american mantra? joining the meeting with answers is chrystia freeland and tailback. one is present ago proposal to the house of representatives emmanuel cleaver wants to declare the day before thanksgiving complaint-free wednesday. chrystia is already nodding. on wednesday, cleaver says put a sock in it! i'll take him up on that. worthy proposition? >> absolutely. a two-fer. no complaints on wednesday and thursday gives you something you're grateful for a day you can complain about everything. >> two good days. at&t loses a legal battle with verizon. there is a map for that ads yanked off the air. >> and if you want to know why some people have spotty 3g coverage there is a map for that, too. >> well, at issue the map showing verizon has much wired coverage than at&t and at&t says they are false. don't shoot the messenger. the map is true. truth in advertising? >> well, i think it's a matter of fact. >> it is. >> so shut up and deal. >> and i think the no wining day is a fabulous idea. every mother in the country will agree with it. what they say in preschools, you get what you get and don't get upset. >> you get what you get, don't get upset. >> that's what they say! it's the mantra for preschool! >> finally, this week, a former republican tells his former colleagues to quit complaining about the guantanamo detainees come to the u.s. for trial. bob barr supports the decision to transport the terror suspects to federal prisons and says the gop needs to stop scare mongering. david keene and grover norqist say they should stop wining over dangerous terrorists will end up on american soil. >> it's a talker. >> yes, we can. it is a trend and it's related to your favorite subject, the economy. just as the depression generation was a lot tougher than kids of ainfluence like us who are winers, maybe the recession will make us tougher. >> who are you calling a winer? >> calling me a winer. >> guilty. i'm just wining about the massive generational theft, mind you but i'm going to shut up and deal. >> that is reasoning politics. >> i'm going to spend time with chrystia so i can figure out what is okay and what is not. she is good with us. chrystia is staying for the dal bal of the show. the health care vote in critical condition. arlen specter is one-on-one with us at the meeting to talk about the big showdown tomorrow night in washington, d.c. will they do whatever they need to do to get this out and down to the floor for a debate? what's a good gift for a family? ♪ how 'bout three computers ♪ ♪ complete with windows seven ♪ ♪ and a wireless router ♪ set up by geek squad? wow. three? ♪ when everyone can get online ♪ ♪ all at once, at the same time ♪ ♪ you won't have to fight ♪ ♪ you won't have to bite ♪ ♪ and you won't act like a bunch of animals ♪ [ male announcer ] get a desktop, laptop, and netbook with windows 7 networked together by geek squad. the best gifts come from best buy. with windows 7 networked together by geek squad. green shoots. recovery. they say with fingers crossed that the worst is behind us. mae it's time to get back in the market. but different this time. mae it's time to get with more control.. and more freedom. why not sit td ameritrade? online, over the phoneor in. get a feel for their straightforward, objective approach. try out their tools, their research, their help. try out their tools, it's time to take advantage of new opportunities. it's time for td ameritrade. welcome back to the "morning meeting." i'm dylan ratigan. stories topping our agenda. the senate health bill in critical condition. a major procedural vote scheduled for tomorrow night. will harry reid get the 60 votes he needs to move the health care debate forward? we'll ask republican, turned democrat, senator arlen specter, if this bill will make it out and down to debate. then cooking the books on stimulus spending. for instance taking credit for saving jobs that were never in jeopardy in the first place and now some democrats are calling for a second stimulus when we don't know where the first stimulus money is. it's not like we don't have infrastructure problems the money couldn't fix. that was evident yesterday when a single computer glitch grounded planes over the country. we will talk about our infrastructure in this country. then having some fun. if you consider being chased by dangerous animals fun, that is. jeff corwin does and i love him for it. from animal planet he joins us to talk about his new msnbc documentary premiering this weekend and what it's like to lead a life on the run from animals that want to eat you. it's 10:00 a.m. pull up a chair and join the "morning meeting." all right. the big story this friday morning, debate set to begin this hour in the senate and not a debate on the senate health care bill, a debate on whether or not to begin the debate. the deal is majority leader harry reid needs 60 votes, all of the democrats and both independents to back a motion just to allow debate on the bill itself to begin. there are three senators, however, ben nelson, marry landrieu, and lanch lincoln blanche lincoln refused to say they will support that move and we may not know until a procedural vote is held tomorrow night. signs of suffering among the uninsured. a thousand people at a free clinic in new orleans some walked in only rushed to the hospital with life-threatening illnesses they did not even know they had. tomorrow, hundreds more expected at a free clinic in arkansas being held at the same time local senator blanche lincoln decides to let this bill move forward. nbc's meredith vieira joins us at the white house. what is going on, sir? >> oh, yeah. . the question will the body be able to deliberate on the health care bill. they vote tomorrow at 8:00 and need 60 votes. those three senators including blanche lincoln, ben nelson and mary landrieu from red states. here is the pitch, come aboard here and allow this debate to go forward. there are three weeks, four weeks, who knows how many weeks of debate on the senate floor. you will have an opportunity to change this. we know you don't like the public option. joe lieberman said the public option isn't leaving the senate because he, one among 60, will not vote for it in the end although he will vote to allow the debate to go forward tomorrow night. a rare saturday session tomorrow. 49 billion dollar bill, costs a little bit less than the house bill but kicks in one year later. one way to save money. all coming to a head as you said this weekend. right now they are talking about whether to deliberate tomorrow night the vote at 8:00. >> joining us now, pennsylvania's democratic senator, arlen specter. he has been a strong supporter of health care reform and said the recent senate bill has a pretty good chance of passing. how do you see this debate about tomorrow? in other words, will this be quite an event or will this be much to do about nothing? >> well, it's a major event to get started, getting 60 votes is never easy, but i believe we'll get the 60 votes. frequently, senators will vote to start the debate and reserve judgment, depending upon how the amendments go. i think we'll get it started. >> what, if anything, are there any particular holdouts you are worried about or even not to try to force you into a pundit type of position, but issues anyway whether it's abortion, or antitrust? where are the flash points? >> well, the public option, of course, is a flash point. i think we'll get the abortion issue worked out. i think we will allow women to pay for their own medical coverage to have abortions. the cost savings are important. i believe it is really vital that we have annual exams to catch breast cancer at an early stage, other ailments which could develop into debill dating debilitating and costly lifestyles and smoking and accounting for lower premiums. one thing i'd like to see done, i'd like to see mandatory jail sentences for people who cheat on welfare fraud and medicare and medicaid fraud. >> what kind of deal-making are you seeing? in other words, the idea that you just had or others that would say i want something in louisiana for health care for senator landrieu, senator nelson on antitrust and senator wyden on choice. everybody has a version that is theirs that is not necessarily in this bill. >> we try to advance our ideas to get them in the bill, but i don't think it's advisable to draw lines in the sand, to say that i won't do it unless i get my way. there are a hundred senators, 435 in the house, and the politics saying if you can't work it out and have accommodation and a compromise. usually, we are able to do that and i think, ultimately, we will here, too. i'm optimistic about getting a health care bill at a pretty good one. >> put this in the context of your own political fight and the political fight that will emerge across the congress coming into next year. >> well, fountain party in power controlling both houses and the white house can't get something done, then it's going to be a big black mark politically. the american people are really fed up with the bickering and with the partisanship which is so heavy in washington. and the american people want to see something done. the republican party, regrettably, has been the party of no. not one member of the house voted for the stimulus package. only three republicans would even talk to democrats in the senate. only one republican voted for health care reform in the house. only one republican on the committee voted to send the floor to the floor. so i think the american people do not like the negativisms of republicans, but they expect democrats to produce and we better do that. >> if you were to look at the objections, both from democrats and republicans to the health care debate up to this point, setting aside some of the issues anyway, one of the sort of echoes in the middle has been a lot of health care, not enough reform. that there is not enough being done on the reforming of the system and too much being done on the addition of the coverage, addition of the coverage admirable but without reform, it doesn't do anything for the economic stability, future, cost, et cetera. how do you reconcile that? >> well, the facts are that we're going to cut the budget by some $130 billion in ten years. if you have a package which costs about $850 billion but we're having savings of close to a trillion dollars. and projecting in the second decade, it will produce savings on the deficit of $650 billion. now, these are projections but the president is committed to not sign a bill that is adding to the deficit and i'm concerned not to vote on a bill that will add to the deficit. the congressional budget office, they are pretty good and impartial, is that there are savings and it is a step forward. >> yeah. my last question for you, senator, you've, obviously, been at this a long time. put tomorrow night in context in the scope of votes and debates that you've been witnessed to and participated in, how do you look at tomorrow night? >> it's a historic vote. this is an historic bill. there have been efforts since president theodore roosevelt to have comprehensive health care coverage. i think it's a big deal. >> senator, a lot of people groo agree with you one way or the other. thank you for the time. >> glad to be with you. >> thank you, senator. talk show queen oprah winfrey announcing this hour her long-running television show will end its run in 2011 after 25 years on the air. it airs in 145 countries worldwide and is watched by an estimated 42 million viewers a week in the united states alone. oprah is expected to start up a new talk show on her cable network which will expectedly debut in 2011. the homeland security department wants to speed up the screening process for low risk air travelers arriving in the united states. the goal is to bring the global entry program to most international airports. program is tested at seven airports around the country and it's expected to cut the average waiting time for passengers to be screened from ten minutes to three. we're keeping our eye on kennet, missouri. the trial of a 24-year-old teacher accused of cutting in line in walmart three years ago. she refused to leave the store after managers asked her to leave. she claims she was called racial slurs by police officers who aher. the jury got to see this tape showing ellis -- that's not it. showing another customer's merchandise. ellis faces up to 15 years in prison if convicted of assaulting officers or resisting arrest and disturbing the peace. okay. space shuttle "atlantis" sfraunts getting practice moving time. the crew won't have to conduct another detailed inspection of the ship until after they leave the international space station. the extra time will be filled by more moving. they have to get those supplies to the outpost here. a second space walk is scheduled for tomorrow. >> thank you very much, contessa. up next, panicked over unemployment. a key house committee delaying a vote on financial regulation because of double digit unemployment numbers. but is a broken financial system the reason there's so much unemployment? how do the democrats plan to fix the job market and do they have to fix the banks to do it? or can they simply throw more money into a bucket even if it has holes in it with a second stimulus? democratic congressman chris van hollen joins the meeting after this. some pharmacists only dispense prescriptions. your walgreens pharmacist also dispenses wisdom... to help you make the right health care decisions. like understanding medicare part d. we'll walk you through a free plan comparison report... to guide you to the most cost-effective... and comprehensive plan, whether you're new to medicare part d... or you've been covered for a while. so stop in and stay well. cheese! walgreens. there's a way to stay well. powerful anti-aging therapies that reduce the look of lines and pores, even tone, brighten, smooth, hydrate, and lock-in moisture, all in one clever little package of total effects. we all know that unemployment now over 10% in this country. the real unemployment rate recorded as high as 17% or 18% as some democrats are starting to worry about their own jobs for next year. as a result talks about a second stimulus package even as government wash dogs report gross exaggerations with the first jobs bill. here are just some of the findings. california state university officials said 268 million dollars of stimulus money created or saved and 26,000 jobs. the reality? those jobs never in jeopardy. another one. the texas housing authority said 450 jobs were saved by a 26,000 dollar roofing project. do the math. the reality -- maybe six jobs. anyway. how about this doozie? a school district in illinois reporting 650 jobs were saved by the stimulus. just one problem. the district only employs 6 hundred people! vice president biden tried to explain it all to jon stewart. take a listen. >> people got on it and they made up districts and others. one district is like we made 30,000 jobs. you're like but you don't exist. they were like, oh, right. how do you keep track? can you keep track? >> you can't keep track. the bottom line is that we do check it be, but what happens is the initial report comes in cold. we don't -- of the 130,000 reports that come in as to what they did with the money, we're now going through it. >> chrystia freeland, managing editor with "the financial times" is with us. what does this do for the war, the health care, the financial reform in process and now bring jobs through the soup to the top? >> well, i think the unemployment number right now is the single biggest political fact in america and i think that it is shaping all of the other debates. >> how so? >> starting with afghanistan. i think it's going to be terrifically hard for this white house to say, let's spend -- it's a million dollars per soldier per year. let's spend a million dollars per soldier per year at the time when more than 10% of americans don't have jobs. that's a very difficult argument to make and that sort of logic, i think, is going to color everything that we see the president trying to do. >> representative chris van holl hollen, chairman of the congressional campaign committee, first off, welcome back. >> good to be with you. >> what does this do for the stakes, for the ruling party or the majority party in this country as chrystia laid it out the 10% unemployment number blinking in everybody's face and rising? >> we have to improve on the jobs front. we have seen improvements since the beginning of the year. we had 700,000 americans a month losing their jobs in january. last month, it was under 200,000. obviously, the trend is in the right direction but it is not acceptable until we turn that corner and see positive job growth and that is what we've been working on. but it is important to keep in mind that last january, our economy was in total free-fall. things had begun to stabilize. now we need to turn that corner. >> congressman, are you in favor of a second stimulus bill? >> i'm not in favor of a second stimulus bill because if you look at the magnitude of the last stimulus bill it was 787 billion over two-year period only some of which has been invested. we need to give that time. that doesn't mean there aren't more targeted measures we can take, for example, in the area of infrastructure where many of us believe that we need to do more. we've got even apart from the fact that we're in a recession, we have huge infrastructure investment needs in this country and we should move forward on those sooner, rather than later. so i think there is room for additional measures. >> put on your hat as chairman of the congressional campaign committee. you know there is an election next year. you know the issues as well or better than anybody in this country. how do you create a coalition, a political coalition for the democratic party going into next year, knowing these variables and knowing the jobsish, particularly i fit sustains itself will be hung around the democrat's neck? >> two things. number one, we need to continue to push on the jobs effort. and, again, we have made progress. i mean people should not underestimate we are in a better situation than last january when we inherited a mess. also, so in addition to additional measures, i mentioned infrastructure investment. there is look at job creation tax credit and a menu of things we may be able to look out out there. i think it's important to remember that elections are about choices and, unfortunately, the position the republicans have taken in this debate is to walk off the playing field entirely. i mean, we've been a.w.o.l. and i think a lot of americans think they have developed a cynical strategy of trying to oppose every effort of this president, so it's hard to say you know, vote for us, even though they haven't put forward any constructive alternatives that will get us out of the mess. >> yeah. no. i think that is also -- i'd be interested in your analysis but if you look look at the off-year election which skewed toward independents and away from democrats or republicans because there is a dissatisfaction with the republicans for the reasons you just described, and a dissatisfaction with the democrats for the reasons i just described. how do you deal with that? >> well, first, the two elections you know where the issues were debating in congress were front and center and part of the debate where the two congressional elections where we won in california and we won for the first time since the civil war in new york 23 and both members came to congress. but i agree with you this is a big battle for the independent vote. on that matter, there are two issues. one is jobs and the other, we need to absolutely make it clear that we're going to get the deficit under control in the long run. we need to put in place now measures that show that we're on a path toward much greater fiscal discipline in the years ahead. >> the last thing i want to draw your attention to. bank profits at a record and small business lending off a a cliff. if you and i ran a bank it's far more profitable not to lend but take the money offshore or some sort of speculation chamber of some kind than it is to lend. i don't understand how it is, as long as the government makes it more profitable for a bank to do anything other than lend money. how is it do you expect to get job creation? in this country? >> two ways to do that. right? one is find greater incentives for banks to lend but that will also hinge on their perception on whether the economy is turning around. >> it also hinges on whether they can go to a dark market and get 40% a year and hang out on a boat. as long as i do that i'm not lending any money. it's more fun on the boat and i make more money. >> no doubt we need to put in more measures and incentives to get them to do exactly that. in the meantime, there are things like this infrastructure investment where we can have more of a direct impact in terms of economic activity right here in the united states. so i do think we need to pursue both of those approaches, but look. i agree with your assessment. we have to turn the corner and see positive job growth. that is what we're working toward and again, we'd like to have a little bit more help from our colleagues in that effort as opposed to just say no to everything approach. >> understood. without lending, you don't have business and without -- if i can make more money on the boat, i'm not lending money. representative, a pleasure. >> thank you. >> plugging into politics here with contessa after this. first lady michelle obama getting a new look. you can get in on the action. i have no idea how but we'll find out together after this. (announcer) sleep can help lighten your mood... ...and improve your concentratio tylenol pm quiets the pain and helps you sleep. because the better you sleep, the better you feel. sheryl crow: because millions of people believe it will make a better future for our children. general brent snowcroft: because climate change threatens our national security. rev. c. douglas smith: we have a responsibility to protect god's creation. ted turner: because i want jobs that are made in america. indra nooyi: because some of america's most trusted companies know clean energy will create new industries and new jobs. mike bloomberg: because i want america to lead the way. woman: so add your voice. man: add your voice. (announcer) add your voice at repoweramerica.org/wall there's crest pro-health multi-protection rinse. it provides all these benefits... without the burn of alcohol. crest pro-health multi-protection rinse. ♪ [ male announcer ] we're cutting the cost of yuletide. taking the bah-humbug out of your budget. and amping up the merry in your christmas. we're lowering prices on everything you need to make your home -- and the season -- more festive. adding more jingle to your pockets, and more happy... to your holidays. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot. stock up on 100-count light sets, now at the new lower price of $1.88 each. what is going on, plugging into politics? >> remember, i told you, dylan, that doug hoffman wants officially to unconcede on that race in upstate? the new york congressional race that he lost. now the watertown daily times reported it is impossible for him to win the 23rd district mathematically. he is accusing the labor unions of fraud. they are wondering if he is trying to recoup the personal money he put up for the campaign but conclude that hoffman panicked election night when he sxeed conceded and he is trying to undo that mistake which you cannot do officially. drew brees, demarcus ware, a trial polamalu. did sna right? it is to encourage kids to play 60 minutes each day hoping to cut down on childhood obesity. what a place to play touch football, right? >> i thought you said it was tackle, though? >> now we have to wait and see if he gets tackled. >> tackling the competition. >> oh, a metaphor? got it. jail break toys. that seems like a incongruous name. it is releasing a michelle obama action figure in three different outfits. they can be bought for $12.99. i can't even see them. >> good thing you showed that! because now i can really tell! >> available for purchase on this particular website. jailbreak is the same company that came out with barack obama and john mccain action figures about the time of the election. >> msnbc, turn us on and bring your microscope! >> jailbreak toys, who thinks that is a good idea to name your toys -- >> if you can't read, bring your magnifying glarks you'll be fine. next up, millions. people heading out for the thanksgiving day holiday but can our infrastructure handle the load? we know the questions and we saw what happened just yesterday with a single circuit in a single computer router that grounded every plane or nearly every play in this country for a quarter of the day. a big old mess. what else is in store? what else lurks, i should say, in inside of our infrastructure? we're back after this. things seem to be getting back to normal at airports around the country to do. big difference from yesterday at this time when 3,000 flights were delayed. not all all of the flights but a huge percentage of the flights in this country yesterday morning. tens of thousands of passengers not able to fly because of a failure of a single circuit board inside the faa's giant communication system. the glitch was fixed but you can expect more delays in the coming weeks for obvious reasons as the holidays get closer. when you're talking about fewer flights and more crowded planes. tom costello covers transportation and puts yesterday in context and the future in context as well like houdini almost. you can see he knows the problems. what happened yesterday? is it indicative of things that lurk in the future? >> well, listen. do you mind? i got to set the record straight. >> please. >> you're a stickler for details and i think we overstated this. >> please. >> you earlier said that a quarter of the flights in this country were grounded for a period of time. >> yeah. >> that's absolutely not true. >> thank you. good. >> planes were delayed and on average the delay was only 45 minutes to an hour. i mean, that's significant. it went on for four hours, but the system still did churn and its system worked. in fact, they went back to the old way of doing things and they got planes off the ground. this was all isolated to a specific telecom router in salt lake city and when it went down, it brought down the computer that essentially handles all of the flight plans for this country and so airlines literally were having to fax their flight plans to air traffic control. that became a very laborious process. we may have a graphic to show you how many delays across the system yesterday. if you count the main line and regional carriers 23, -- 3,048 flights delayed and so that is resolved and hope it's not going to come back but we are now gearing up for the thanksgiving day travel period. by car, 32 million people are going to be traveling this people, up 2% from last year. 2.3 approximately million by air is down 6% from last year. so you say why are more people going by car? the economy stinks as you well know. second of all, what is fascinating is despite this bad economy with unemployment in double digits, people simply need to maintain these american traditions. it's part of the american fabric to be there at thanksgiving and people are going to do that, regardless of the cost it appears but they are going to choose driving over flying. >> yeah. tom, thank you very much, particularly for the clarification. my last question, though, before i let gu, is there any way to know how many more of these little glitches, little circuits are out there? >> no. >> we don't have redunnedsiredu? what is the issue? >> this is outsourced telecom piece and believe this networking piece failed before about 15 months ago and the union believes if that was under faa control rather than outsourced to a private company they would have it up and running in a matter of minutes. the faa is doing a flow investigation of this right now and dissecting the problem and clearly want to prevent this from happening again. >> tom, i have a question for you. dylan has been talking a lot about unemployment and the stimulus package. would this be a good target for infrastructure sim stimulus stenged? if you had more money could you fix the system? >> the faa is screaming for years about the need to update the infrastructure at the faa and this goes to a whole system. air traffic control and et cetera, et cetera. that is going to cost somewhere between 20 and 30 billion to make that functional. the problem is congress hasn't given the money for the faa to do that. they are starting to roll this out in pieces but in order for this upgrade to happen, congress has to step up to the plate and spend the money. i'm not sure you're going to get the bang for the buck in terms of jobs with that kind of a spending spree. it's more likely going all towards technology. >> tom, thank you very much. air travel in this country obviously not as good, certainly as it could be if you fly, you knew that before you turned our tv or heard me open my loud mouth. the american society of civil engineers graded if it for us and gave american air travel a d and said it will cost in their estimation 87 billion to make it better and may include what tom was just describing. you say okay, we'll take the train. forget it. only marginally better. the american rail system gets a c minus. the same assessment that the american society of civil engineers, $63 billion required to get the train system fixed up and not clear whether that includes any plans for high-speed rail in this country. no problem, you say, i'll drive my car. go to grandma's say the way tom just described. good luck. america's roads a d minus and cost almost a trillion they say to fix those. steven wallace, 32 years with the faa, now a senior aviation adviser for o'neal and associates and a commercial pilot to boot, chrystia freeland, managing editor for the financial times and not a airline pilot. >> how do you know that? >> i'm guessing. this is rinse, wash, and repeat conversation every once in a while. what has to happen for there to be real action in investment on american transportation infrastructure? >> well, it already is happening. in fact, we run 32,000 scheduled commercial flights in this country every single day, 11 million a year. it's about half the aviation all the world happens in the united states. very, very successfully. when is there a glitch like this yesterday, which is a very serious matter and i would just like to point out. a serious matter from the standpoint of delays and inconvenience and costs. not a serious matter for safety, because the safety is always the pop trirt priority top priority. they basically averted to the way of handling old flight plans and caused a large delay. >> i'm confused, though. you say we're doing -- you say we're doing a goob with our infrastructure right now and we we shouldn't be interested in investing in it? >> we should be and we are. as tom costello mentioned, we are moving to a next generation, a complete change in the way we develop the picture of air traffic by having airplanes identify their positions through gps and send it down to the ground, satellite-based system. but you cannot just put the money on the table, buy the system, and throw the switch on, for two reasons. one is you can't stop this system for a minute. you can't -- and, two, you can't put a system in place until it has been so thoroughly tested that there can be no question that it is going to improve safety and not degrade safety. >> when you look at the american society of civil engineers and their assessment giving america a d saying we need $2.2 trillion in investment in planes, trains and automobiles to get our systems up to sort of modern capabilities, are they wrong? >> i have never heard that of assessment. there's no question that the next gen system is going to be costly. ultimately, it will probably cost less to operate because we are be getting rid of a lot of costly aides. so i can't comment on that system. i can comment though, as far as the various grades that i just saw on your show here for the first time, we lose something over a hundred people every day on the highways, the two worst accidents in the last several years in commercial aviation lost half that many. >> no. no one is suggesting that there is some mortality danger in commercial aviation whatsoever. let me be very clear. i'm saying the failure to invest in the road, trains and modern aviation is kauf causing a weakening infrastructure across the board and i was trying to get a sense from you, because of your body of expertise, whether, in fact, you believe the american infrastructure is intact and is not in need of any investment? >> it's clearly in need of investment. we had a terrible bridge collapse in minneapolis. i personally worry more about roads and bridges than about aviation probably, but i'm very much aware of the efforts to move forward with aviation. in fact, this system that broke, i would actually say is part of the improvement. it's part of an electronic flight plan filing system that has -- that is a tremendous improvement in both safety and efficiency. >> new efficiency they had adopted for flying failed and they went back to how it was before they had the router, basically? >> that's exactly right. >> thank you, steven. we'll take a break. contessa has the balance of the news first. end of an era for oprah winfrey. she is expected to announce her long running show will come to an end in 2012. what is the story here? >> hi there, contessa! how are you? you know, we have been hearing rumblings about oprah planning to end her show and she is going to making the announcement today that we know. her last show on the oprah show will end september 9th, 2011. all of a sudden, contessa, the world has come to an end. now oprah just tweeted this to her twitter followers. big day. tune in, my tweet friends. we know oprah winfrey is going to make the decision she will end her show, as we know it, on september 9th, 2011. >> shaun, is it because of sagging ratings? >> you know, contessa, a lot of people have pointed out that oprah's ratings have been sagging the last couple of years but let's put it in perspective. all television ratings have been sagging and oprah just did an interview with sarah palin that you probably saw and that gave her her biggest ratings in the last couple of years. and people who know oprah say that she is just burnt out. she is burnt out. when she ends her show, it will have been 25 seasons and that she just wants to do something a little different. she said she has this beautiful home in california she hasn't been able to enjoy and always said chicago is one of the greatest cities in the world but they would like to enjoy her home and maybe a little warm weather. >> already the speculation about a show on her own cable network. we will wait and see what happens there. shaun, thanks. a developing situation this morning involving singer miley cyrus and her tour bus that crashed in north carolina and killed the driver. we have a picture of the scene from wwbt. miley cyrus was not on the bus when it crashed. nine other people who were on the bus, however, were hurt in the crush crash and they have minor injuries and taken care of there. the task force that loosened guidelines for breast cancer screening this week said the conclusions were misinterpreted. members are not against women having mammograms in their 40s but instead the group believes women in that age range should decide on their own after consulting doctors. the guidelines now recommend annual mammograms begin at age 50 instead of 40. now today another new change in guidelines. this one for pap smears. it's what the american college of object take strirkss and gynecologists are recommending. women should get pap smears at the age of 21. women in 20s should get a pap smear every two years instead of annually and women older than 30 should wait three years after three consecutive clear tests. that's a big change. they were explaining that women should start getting a pap smear when they become sexual active. "twilight" sequel premiered this morning and look at the crowds turning out. the film opens at more than 3,000 theaters today and expected to be a smash at the box office this weekend. perhaps earning more than $100 million. come on! "new moon" is easily surpassing "twilight" at the international box office. dylan, i know you're so excited! do you know even know what it is? >> i want to go back to oprah. she is ending her show and oprah is expanding her empire and to do that she is going to take her tv world from the world to her own tv network. this is oprah imperial not oprah going away. >> she is not burnt out. she is launching her own cable network and taking her best asset which is herself to her cable network. >> dylan, obviously, is brilliant but so is oprah. the fact she got it on the nont page of the "the new york times" is the least surprising story in the world. her show is not ending. >> no. >> she is just -- talk about her and not until 2012. >> both you and oprah look good in red, i noticed. >> thank you very much. coming up next on the "morning meeting," lie lions and tigers and snakes, oh, my. jeff cord win who spends his life on the run from critters with four legs and sometimes many more than that. he joins the meeting to talk about conservation efforts in this country and around the world, especially keeping so many of the animal species on this planet on the verge of extinction from completing that event. sometimes, the little things in life feel like our biggest enemies. ribbon of refuge. you have plastic baby shoes and i feel things touching up against me. there's glass, plastic bags, human refuge. just imagine the impact that all this weighs, the hundreds and hundreds of tons of it floating behind me, how this waste impacts the ecosystem and the wildlife. >> that is a clip from jeff corwin's documentary that debuts this sunday on msnbc. jeff joins us live as we continue green is universal week here on msnbc. 100 heartbeats is the title of jeff's new book as well. i happen to be a big fan and a nature lover myself on a real pleasure and honor. >> fly fish is my passion. when i'm really stressed out i want my fly line in my hand and it all goes away. >> people love to get a sense of what they can do around their own lives to sort of take control. >> right. >> we talk about so many things here. with something like this, where you're able to show people the impact of pollution, the piece of video alone, how do people sort of respond to this and how can they help you do what you're trying to do which is to raise awareness and do something about it? >> i find people have been incredibly responsive. i've been doing this stuff for almost 15 years now. i wouldn't have a job if people didn't care about this stuff. this project, one of the heartbeats from the book and the documentary there, this project really has been a mission for mine for my entire career. so i just feel, right now i'm just trying to enjoy this moment. it's so hard because this business, you're constantly moving. i'm trying to take stock of this moment that i've had a chance, because of msnbc and the book, to travel around the world to tell these stories. this footage we're looking at right here, all of this gash af we are racing out to film the poaching, illegal harvesting of sea turtles and discovered this ribbon of trash in gentleman car tar around indiana snee sha. you see the trash on the surface. this is a bright idea that kind of goes awry. we're in the boat and my film crew is like, what are you doing? i'm jumping in there because i want to show what it's like to be a sea turtle swimming through that stuff. as we got closer and the smells of human refuge became more extreme we realized it was a bad idea. >> that was toxic. >> it was toxic but it perfectly illustrates why we are in the state we are with our planet. a lot of people don't realize when you think of extinction, what sort of animals do you think of when you reflect on extinction some. >> dinosaurs. >> dinosaurs and dusty dodo birds and extinction happens once every 20 minutes. we lose enough trees, plants and animals from our planet every year the size of england. >> why? what do you think is the variable? >> well, we have what i call a perfect storm of extinction and made up of elements. first element is the destruction of habitat. 3,000 acres of rain forest, example, destroyed every hour. species exploitation and climate change. >> it's all human beings? it's the humans? >> extinction is not new for this planet. we lost the dinosaurs and it wasn't because of people but because of an asteroid. we lost mammoth and other creatures because of an ice age event but now we are the climate change. >> we're the asteroid? >> that is exactly it. we are the asteroid and impacting our planet and a lot of people don't believe me when i tell them this but this isn't from me, from the icun and international union for conservation of nature, from united nations research fund that we will lose potentially 50% of our planet's life halfway through this century. i mean, that's shocking. >> i'm listening to this this morning or reading the book or watch the documentary on sunday night, the first thing i can change as human being to try to impact this problem for the better? >> it comes down to consumption. we're consumers. we eat and we use natural resources every day and our challenge is to find a sustainable way to use natural resources. this footage we're looking at right now was incredible for story for us. rearang. these aorangutan were orphans and cut down and wildlife exposed and what i'm trying to show here all of this works together. >> a single system? >> habitat loss doesn't work in a vacuum. it works in tandem with climate change. >> all of a sudden, they are dead? >> look at this. 77 billion tons of carbon is locked up in the am sewn alone so there is a solution to help dealing and alleviate climate change but when you cut down that rain forest and you burn it, what do you do? you lose your carbon storage and you increase climate change and contribute to it. the biggest thing we learn from this is we're not without hope. you know, i've been so lucky. i love adventure and wildlife and had a blast in my career but this was really sobering and it changed my view on who we are and our relationship with the world. we looked at the black market trade of wildlife, exploitation of species but i left it with hope and i'm actually very proud of our species because while many things we failed at, there are species we looked like the california condor and bald eagle that have recovered because of what we're doing. >> and they brought wolves up to my hometown in adirondack and moose for that matter it is. i'm a huge fan of yours and couldn't support what you're doing more. >> thank you. >> congratulations. >> you see what i wrote in your book? it says, "hi, dylan. thanks. you want my job but you can't have it." >> i want it. >> let's do a special. >> any time you want. >> is it true if a bear chases you you have to outrun whoever you're with? >> true. work with a good cameraman who is 30 pounds overweight. >> tricks of the trade. thank you, jeff. again, congratulations. the book "100 heartbeats." the documentary "100 heartbeats" this sunday on msnbc at 8:00 p.m. eastern. this is jim. he returns everything. keep your friends close and your receipts closer. and this is his new chevy, what sold you? i can return it. of course, now on top of chevy's 5-year/100,000 mile powertrain warranty, they're offering their 60-day satisfaction guarantee. now, when i buy a new chevy i can return it within . ed. just one problem... what's that? i'm thrilled. change is good jim. the 60-day satisfaction guarantee. from chevy. thanks for spending a part of your morning with us. msnbc live picks up right now. now, the president and congress are moving forward... with reform that includes the best ideas. backed by america's physicians. nurse leaders and nurse practitioners. america's hospitals. prohibiting cuts to medicare benefits. protecting your choice of health care professional. covering preventive care, and closing the prescription gap, to reduce out-of-pocket costs. ♪ pothole:h no...your tire's all flat and junk. oh, did i do that? 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