. a . a little bit under women and seniors and still under performing among women and trump is doing well among black, hispanic and young compared to previous campaigns and you are right, absolutely the movement is among independent and they have moved in recent polls roughly 9 points towards biden at 21% of independent in a survey shortly after the conviction said that they were the less likely to vet for donald trump as a result of the conviction. >> you know, john, in close elections where michigan wisconsin will probably be decided for under a point. that fluctuation really mat matters. one thing he didn't did donald trump ■çwill tell you is he has the joan rivers vote locked away. >> okayings my god. >> just like he has in the past. so he's at least got that on the side bit. independent have broken away, and again, we hear it every four years, donald trump is going to get 20% of the black vote, 25% of the black vote. it doesn't happen. >> well, as i will, you know, begin by saying my usual song. margin of error race will be close and it will be a margin of error race through election day and we are in the margin of error. but, in the same way we talk about how like any individual poll doesn't mat are but trend lines matter. you know i sat down with jenna and talked about the numbers. and you looked at the fact trump in this calendar year, trump's peak ■çlead in the polling averages was at its peak in january about four points. last week, within the way inside the marge error for the first time all year, in the 538 polling average biden moved ahead by a trifleian number, but it's a 4 point over the course not just the last month, i would say. karl knows the unless but it's not just the last month. it's a six month very gradual trend line heading to joe biden's direction and joe to your point, closing a 4 point gap over six months that's a race of margin of error race is meaningful. and i asked jenna about whether they are seeing the numbers not just the national level but battleground states and whether the vergedth is playing a part and the ■çanswer is yes. they are paying attention to and seeing on the margins, small, but meaningful appreciable but measurable. and inching towards joe biden in a consistent way across the trend lines and verdict seems to have made a difference to that again we are so far inside the margin of error you couldn't be more inside it. but it is meaningful, i think, and that's what karl is picking up on a in the clip and both sides know it and another reason that explain part of why the pressure on trump is mounting around the debate as much as biden. pressure is high on both but the trump campaign sees the numbers because they are not dumb about reading polls. >> no question trend lines moving toward biden even if in a small way. it's margin ofaror race so the role of third party candidates will play a big key ■çfactor here. robert f. kennedy jr. didn't qualify and it will be trump and biden but he looms large and we heard over the weekend, trump actively talking about jill stine saying he likes them stay in the race, stay in the race because he knows even drawing a sliver from the biden electorate could be the difference in race this tight. >> so jonathan, has he figured out whether he likes rfk jr. because the last time he attacked him because rfk may take more finance trump than biden. >> he is doing a weird dance. adviceers are trying to figure this out how to handle this. one hand he is very critical of rfk jr. and sort of compliments him and put out a video when rfk jr. didn't qualify for the debates being sympathetic. the trump át0lkitearrecognizes rfk draws from both men maybe a little more ■çfrom trump but trump at the same time is anxious about i'll ating the rfk jr. voters because i think if he goes after rfk too hard he may turn off the antisacks types. that's what i've been told they are trying to navigate this where they are critical but don't want to overdo it for now. >> joining the conversation now we have senior national political correspondent for the washington post ashley parker. ashley, your latest reporting, you traveled to a town in western wisconsin last month to discuss this fall's election. with so-called double haters. voters who dislike both of this election's candidates and you conducted more than 60 interviews. and found, "sentiments from resignation, ■çand dismay, to disbelief and anger over an election in which both the democratic and republican parties served up the same two deeply unpopular candidates. what more can you tell us? >> so, i went to hudson wisconsin very far western wisconsin basically a river town on the river that divides wisconsin from minnesota. and i chose hudson because in 2020 we knew something was at stake, the margin between trump and biden who won there, was 155 votes. a smaller than the margin of people who took the time to show up to the polls and vote for someone else a protest vote. and it's emably matic of the state where the same thing haápened where biden won but the people who voted for someone other than trump or biden chose the election could have swung. so these are the voters who are going to in many ways decide the election. and it was fascinating to talk to them. a couple things i learned one was age was concern for both men that came up constantly. but concerns were more acute for biden. they talk about both men as too old but really had concerns fairly or unfairly of biden's ability to do the job. even those who plan to vote for him. and than it broke down it was fascinating, the people who didn't like biden or had concerns were really beyond the age. it was policy and they mentioned to me the economy how they personally feel it has not gotten better and israel-gaza war. for trump it really, and this may not surprise you, it ■çwas not about policy but personality. some thought he did a fine job as president. but they didn't like how boreish or crash he was or tweets or who he was as a person. so really different reasons they don't like the two guys. but at the end of the day, they don't like the two guys and they are sort of desperately trying to figure out what they are going to do in november. >> ashley, from your just giving us that snapshot of what you got on both candidates, would you think it wise that the biden people give more emphasis on how the economy was under donald trump because we do have four years to look at he was president and he did serve, i know unemployment went way up under ■çhis mismanagemen of the covid-19 crisis, and they are not emphasizing that enough. and do you think in terms of trump, if he becomes more reserved and measured, in his public appearance, would that help his campaign since that seems to be his personality and his kind of over the top type of behavior seems to be what you are saying voters are concerned about. >> so i will answer the second question first because that's the easier one. yes, absolutely. if donald trump became untrump like, that would absolutely help him with the voters. the question is, that sort of core to who he is. we have seen he can sort of control himself become as you said more reserved, for a day, for a couple days, for a week. he hasn't ■çreally been able to maintain that per se in election cycle or until november. if they can wave a magic wand his team would love that and that would absolutely help him. biden calculation is trickier because the economy is incredibly difficult for them to message on and there's a ton of indicators right now that the economy by a lot of metrics is doing quite well. but it has not trickled down to the way voters feel on interest rates, on grocery prices, even on gas. all right. the washington post ashley parker, thank you very much for your reporting this morning. you're watching morning joe weekend. we will be right back. d. we will be right back. it's still not under control. but now i have rinvoq. a once-daily pill that reduces the itch and helps clear the rash of eczema —fast. some taking rinvoq felt significant itch relief as early as 2 days— and some achieved dramatic skin clearance as early as 2 weeks. many saw clear or almost-clear skin. plus, many had clearer skin and less itch, even at 3 years. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal, cancers including lymphoma and skin, heart attack, stroke, and gi tears occurred. people 50 and older with a heart disease risk factor have an increased risk of death. serious allergic reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. disrupt the itch & rash of eczema. talk to your dermatologist about rinvoq. learn how abbvie can help you save. liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. with all the money i saved i thought i'd buy stilts. hi honey. ahhh...ooh. look, no line at the hot dog stand. yes! only pay for what you need. ♪liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty.♪ you know what's brilliant? 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[panting] dave's company just scored the ge comcast business 5-yearon del price lock guarantee. or. high five! high five... -i'm on a call. it's 5 years of reliable, gig speed internet... five years of advanced security... five years of a great rate that won't change. yep, dave's feeling it. yes. but it's only for a limited time. five years? -five years. introducing the comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. powering 5 years of savings. powering possibilities. exactly exactly how long the trial might last. his next hearing is set for august 13th. joining us now dow jones ceo and publisher of the wall street journal and president ameritis of the council relation. good morning. i will start with you, front page above the fold this morning in the wall street journal is evan's trial. and just below that, a chilling image of evan in court first day of the trial with the shaved head. what's your reaction to the beginning of the trial? >> well, unfortunately it's playing out in as grand a fashion as we anticipated ■çand it's a farce cal proceedings with sham trial and based on a lie. evan looks emaciated in the photo. they shaved hits head and he is moved into a new facility because court proceedings moved from moscow to yekateringburg and we believe he has one cell mate and the trial itself it is a mystery to proceedings themselves are a mystery. you are not -- the lawyers are not allowed to talk to us. very lawyers we retained cannot share anything about the trial or they will be charged with espionage. so all of this is a fiction all of this is part of the if he is found guilty, as we noted more than 90% of the cases in this court they do reach a guilty verdict, he faces up to 20 years in prison. i want to respect your private negotiations and conversations behind the scenes because it is so sensitive, but to the extent you can share are there glimmers of hope when you talk to intermediate aries and have direct discussions and negotiation was russian authorities. >> not once have we lost hope. there has been ups and downs, and i can't speak to the very specific developments right now, but people are work around the clock not just u.s. officials, but allied nations as well. so we feel very supported, family feels supported. and evan feels the support as well. we will get him out. >> so, joe, the!çstatement from evan's family yesterday talking about the just excruciating last 15 months since he was snatched and put in prison on a sham charges of espionage. >> it is. it is heart breaking, heart breaking for the family and obviously heart breaking for the family of journalists at the wall street journal who have for years, provided americans and the world some of the greatest reporting across the world. mika's one of mika's relatives on the show yesterday was a wall street journal reporter, and similar beat. how is this impacting your news gathering? obviously, it is breaks everybody's ■çheart but what tough decisions are you all having to make about how you cover the world and shine -- continue shining a light on darkness in russia. >> well, thank you first of all. we have a relatively new editor who led with grace throughout this whole ordeal. i believe this is really a moment for our particular journalism coming close to our purpose to really double down on that purpose of bringing reliable information to a world in which information is hard to come by. i think everyone is extra motivçue). q procarouse right now to be a reporter in ■çhot spots around the world and so we proceed with caution. we have a security protocol in place that we have tightened up even more, but we are doubling down on our mission. >> yeah. >> and, we have said on the show i certainly have said many times, even if we had problems with a-- an observation ordinary job we think emma is doing at the wall street journal breath life into the publication in the past six month, and is highlighted this issue time and begin richard, which is what the family has to be heartened by how the wall street journal has stood shoulder to shoulder. i am curious, though, how ■çdo deal with a superpower. or at least a country that considers itself still to be a superpower when they keep kidnapping our journalists, our athletes, and just american citizens that are kidnapped by vladimir putin and exchanged later for international fugitives, international thugs like weapons dealers, merchants of death? >> joe i wish i could give you a good answer. i was involved in trying to get american hostages out of lebanon years ago when i worked at the white house. and it's just one of the most frustrating things. the more you talk about it, the more you try. and some ways it's a real deliciousa because it signals this is really viable. what else can we get from you americans. so it's just ■ça dilemma for th government and, you know, it's also the question is what's motivating russia. in your sense to what extent do you think it's to intimidate and to basically teach -- show all journalists you cover us in certain ways we will get you. to what extent have you gleaned from the contacts this is potentially a way to set up a trade. that and you know, again, i don't want to go too far, but, what you think is motivating. >> well, so, traditionally, the types of cases have led to a trade of some sort and that's definitely one of the motivations that we discern. and that's, i think a level of effort that's going into a trade from the u.s. side and allies from around the world. that's one ■çthing. i think the motivation is also to humiliate the west and to humiliate free press, and to serve as an example, to say, hey, do not write about us in any unfavorable manner. >> the negotiations for evan's release are sensitive. much of it, probably all of it are behind the scenes much we don't know what's going on in public nor should we know. but the insertion of domestic politics propped up yesterday former president donald trump on his truth social platform said ," wrote, fear not evan, i will get you home soon and you will be safe while there. ". what's your reaction when you see that? >> i am not going to comment on specific ■çposting, but we have seen bipartisan support throughout this past 15 months. and so that's continuing in some form. we hope that evan can come home sooner than the election. and we are working towards that and putting a spotlight on evan for that very purpose to try to get him home now and i know a the lo of work is taking place. i do think it's important per your comments just now that there is a debate on how we are going to end the hostage taking industry by auto kratts. and that's putting pressure on journalists all over the world. and you see this behavior being mirrored in other nations as well. and so, think that's a legitimate debate but it's apart from the particular posting. >> and what ■çcan americans watching right now, watching this show, watching other shows, that want to help, what can they do? >> well, first of all, join in the discussion. start conversations around this. wear a button like the one i am wearing right now. why is that important? it may not feel at an individual level you are contributing but you are because there needs to be an awareness free press is under assault. and without free press, there's no free society. this is something we hold very dear. if we let this slip out of control, it will be high price to pay not just in russia, but potentially elsewhere as well. i think this is one of the most important discussions that we should have in this country and around the world. >> reading from that ■çstatemen from evan's family, yesterday, quote, we miss our son and just want him home. we hope he comes home soon and we stand with evan and you and we will stay on this story. dow jones ceo and publisher of the wall street journal almar latower. >> thank you for your support. secretary of homeland security joins because update on crossings at southern border since president biden's executive order restricting asylum requests. we will be right back. sts. we will be right back. the only migraine medication that helps treat and prevent, all in one. to those with migraine, i see you. for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults. don't take if allergic to nurtec odt. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. it's time we all shine. talk to a healthcare provider about nurtec odt from pfizer. smile! you found it. the feeling of finding psoriasis can't filter out the real you. so go ahead, live unfiltered with the one and only sotyktu, a once-daily pill for moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, and the chance at clear or almost clear skin. it's like the feeling of finding you're so ready for your close-up. or finding you don't have to hide your skin just your background. once-daily sotyktu was proven better, getting more people clearer skin than the leading pill. don't take if you're allergic to sotyktu; serious reactions can occur. sotyktu can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections, cancers including lymphoma, muscle problems, and changes in certain labs have occurred. tell your doctor if you have an infection, liver or kidney problems, high triglycerides, or had a vaccine or plan to. sotyktu is a tyk2 inhibitor. tyk2 is part of the jak family. it's not known if sotyktu has the same risks as jak inhibitors. find what plaque psoriasis has been hiding. there's only one sotyktu, so ask for it by name. so clearly you. sotyktu. ok y'all we got ten orders coming in.. big orders! starting a business is never easy, but starting it eight months pregnant.. that's a different story. i couldn't slow down. we were starting a business from the ground up. people were showing up left and right. and so did our business needs. the chase ink card made it easy. when you go for something big like this, your kids see that. and they believe they can do the same. earn unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase with the chase ink business unlimited card from chase for business. make more of what's yours. this summer. snacking. just. got. serious. introducing new $3 footlong dippers. the world might not be ready for them... ...but at $3 a pop? your wallet definitely is. president biden's president biden's recent executive actions aimed at making illegal border crossers ineligible for asylum appear to be deterring some migrants from crossing the southern border. in the three weeks since those new actions went into effect, new figures released show a reduction in the number of encounters at ■çthe southwest border down 40%. to just under 2400 per day. before the president's actions went into effect encounters at the u.s. mexico boarder were averaging more than 4,000 each day. joining us now homeland security secretary aland dry mayorkas. we see there is definitely a decrease in the encounters. what is it taking to put the executive action in practice. what are the challenges that you all have confronted, and are you close to reaching the intended goal? is it moving in the right direction fast enough? >> thank you so much for having me. it is indeed moving in the right direction. you correctly note that the number of encounters at the southwest border have decreased in the three weeks that we have been implementing the president's ■çproclamation by more than 40%. it's remarkable implementation effort by the men and women of the department of homeland security in u.s. customs and border protection and immigration and customs enforcement and u.s. citizenship and immigration services. we are conducting more removal flights than ever before. we are moving people through the system and those who do not qualify are being removed or returned more rapidly. it's a remarkable feat our personnel accomplished in a short period of time. it's important to remember, though, that the president executive action is being challenged in the court. we cannot fully through executive action resource the departme%t of homeland security and senate bipartisan legislation would have provide relief that executive actions cannot. we need congress to act and the failure of congress to act the president led and took action. >> okay. and in this action, you say it's moving in the right direction. the two issues here i want to ask you about. the first is nbc news reporting that the department of homeland security has identified over 400 immigrants who have come to the u.s. from central asia and elsewhere as subjects of concern, and some even affiliated potentially with the isis affiliated human smuggling network. that's number one. and then number two, reporting from nbc news, the administration is releasing illegal crossers inside the ■ç u.s. to live while they pursue asylum claims but it's not officially really working and it's still -- there's a lot of folks coming through here the way they shouldn't. >> well, if i may correct you in number of regards. number one with respect to the people from central asia, we have no evidence that they are individuals plotting to harm the united states. that is inaccurate. it's very important to note that the safety and security of the american people are our highest priority and we scene and vet individuals at the time of encounter. if we learn of derogatory information, we take enforcement action. enforcement action. we are caution here. in the service of the security and safety of the ■çamerican people. number one. number two, the number of individuals whom we have released into immigration enforcement proceedings, subsequent to the president's proclamation has dropped significantly. but remember that our detention capacity and this is not specific to our administration, this has been historic. ever since the '90s when i was a federal prosecutor, our detention capacity is not sufficient to meet the number of people we encounter. and therefore we have to release people into the united states when they are in immigration enforcement proceedings. and we put them on alternatives to detention when that is necessary from an enforcement perspective. and so we have a number of procedures to ensure the safety and security of ■çthe american people. fundamentally, we are operating within a broken immigration system. we need congress to fix it. and everyone agrees with that. it has not been fixed since 1996. >> mr. secretary, the flows of people across the border caused the president a huge amount of political trouble. if this executive order has worked as well as you are saying it worked this morning, why not do it a year and a half ago and save the democrats all a push back they have had on the border? >> well, let's remember that the chronology. on day one of the president's administration he presented congress with a legislative proposal to fix our immigration system. up until may of last year, title 42 the public health order was in place. that prevented people from entering the ■çunited states wi some exceptions. it provided the government with the authority to expel people from the united states. essentially the border was closed. everyone expecteded pandemonium to break out when title 42 was lifted. it did not. the president went to congress and requested supplemental funding. the funding that we and in the department of homeland security and other departments administered the immigration system so desperately need. and went to the funding to congress in august, did not receive it. he went again in october, did not receive it. and we then went into very difficult but ultimately successful bipartisan negotiations, for a legislative solution. that would have delivered the fixes that ■çour system have lo needed. it would have provided the immigration system with the resources we have long needed. 1500 border patrol and officer field operations personnel, 1200 immigration and customs enforcement officers and agents, 4300 asylum officers more than 100 immigration judges. that was a bipartisan practical solution that involved difficult compromises but compromises that deliver success congress failed to act. the president has acted. >> mr. secretary, you outlined some of the challenges the republicans in congress presented to the administration. but talk to us about the latest in some of the battles you faced with some republican led states who are trying to take immigration ■çmatters into thei own hands. >> immigration is as a matter of law, the exclusive province of the federal government. one compelling reason why that is so is that it has very significant foreign policy implications. i work with counterparts from countries in our region and around the world every day to address what is a global migration challenge. i worked with the foreign minister of ecuador just two days ago. as one example. and what is important is that if governors of states are concerned with what they have before them, then it is imperative and incumbent upon them to work with the federal government to address a challenge that not only our and throughout the world are facing. it is not acceptable. it is not good government for one governor to take unilateral action and deliberately not communicate, coordinate, with the federal government on what is the federal government responsibility. next, the pod save america guys will be here with a new book how people can get involved in the political process and make a real difference. s and make a real difference. nexium 24hr prevents heartburn acid for twice as long as pepcid. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium. 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[mind blown explosion noise] . i . i want to throw this up into the whole table here, because you guys just have so many interactions with so many people through throughout the course of are day and the week, it's really kind of a two-part question. when you have people that come to you and they are could taft row if iizing that donald trump could be reelected after all the madness. what do you tell them and then what happens when you get to where i get rarely, but i do get there, where i start to da taft roofiesing and say wait a second you've got this guy that trieded to overthree american democracy, wanted -- said vice president deserved hanging. 34 felony counts and you go down the list says he wants ■çt execute generals. and it's a 50-50 race in those dark moments, what do you say to yourself about this country and how we get through this? >> well, when people say, you know, could donald trump win, yes of course he could win. and that's why you should get involved. because like we are going to be a bunch of nervous democrats watching the debate thursday night nervous a lot of americans. and we can't really at the end of the day control what joe biden does but we can control the outcome of the election because the upside of the fact joe biden only won by 40,000 votes across three swing states in 2020 is that every single person can have a bigger impact in a closer race and the reason we wrote democracy rails was to let people know following politics can be terrifying but getting involved in politics doesn't have to be terrifying and ■çcan be fun and impactful. there's lot of people who don't follow the news most americans don't follow the news as we all do. joe to your point about how could it be so close, for lot of people, they have not paid attention to all the horrible things donald trump has done or forgot because they have busy lives. you know, that can depress us or embolden us to persuade people to remind them what donald trump is, and also tell them what another four years of donald trump would be like, and what biden has been doing to fight for people and what biden will continue to do. so, it's frustrating but it's democracy. and that's the way we say that. >> the point of your book is the old line from the former boss president obama said don't boo vote get involved and do something. >> that's part of why we think the book is helpful in this moment. there are a ■çlot of very good reasons to be cynical, angry, frustrated, worried about politics. a lot had to go wrong for someone like donald trump to get within 100 miles of the oval office. lot. and all of those problems they didn't turn on the day donald trump won. they didn't turn off the day joe biden won. there's a lot we don't have control of. i was in north carolina this weekend, there was a race for state representative turned by 500 votes. if they had kept that seat, they might have been able to protect abortion in the state of north carolina. if you are in that district, the news may be depressing, you may be worried about what's happening nationally. about but if you knocked on doors you could reach a number of people that could change a policy as big as that in a state like north carolina. and i think more people need to understand once you ■çget out a participate, you discover politics outsighted of internet and what you see on line is much more additive and positive than what you tend to see if you look at your phone. >> looking at 2020 times margins were so thin in georgia and pennsylvania or wisconsin, pick your swing state, that a few people getting involved or not getting involved as john said, could be the difference. >> literally thousands of people. i think listen, i think we have the moments where we sit and spiral about politics. for me they are sunday evenings. and so what i say in the moment take an edible and go to bed and next day wake up and talk to friends who live in a swing state and see who they are voting for talk about what they care about get past the personalities of the two candidates and talk about what does this vote mean for you? do you believe climate change is real. one candidate did something about it and one person who thinks ■çit is not man-made. did you think women should make their own decision about their health care then joe biden is pro choice, and donald trump sap different vision for the future for women a he reproductive care. >> what he at answer in this dynamic polls suggest some americans don't like either candidate. the double haters. and we know that group has sort of decided last come elections. how do we see that going this time and how does biden win those back to people who don't like him. >> you have to remind the double haters of what they really hated about donald trump. and he is benefited i think from being off twitter from being out of the limelight sickos like us watch the rallies for 90 minutes on youtube. most people do not. and i uzó[■■ithink highlighting things will be a part of it. and then joe biden has to tell them here's what i will do if you give me another ■çfour year to fight for you. these are the obstacles standing in my way and this is how it i will overcome it. >> this is how they describe the thesis of the book, democracy or else is an effort to put down on paper lessons we learned along the way. lessons that will hopefully transform you into a savvier saner well armed citizen well armed with knowledge. we gathered advice from some of the best organizers and least annoying politicians around. thank god for that, because if the roller coaster ride of doom and hope we have been on for the past few years taught us anything, it's that no one has all the answers. we have a role to play in figuring this stuff out. and doing it together is actually the fun part. jon, the fun part. so for people who do dooms scroll on social media or perhaps watch cable news and fret every morning or night about where the country is headed, what are some of the things toget out. do you lay them out in the book volunteer, organize on a practical level, what can people do to perhaps change the course of the race? >> yeah, look, i think getting involved in politics and start in your community, your own state like everyone we are following national politic. and that can depress us. but you can have bigger impact on some of the local races. and so, you know you can join your local democratic committee, you can join plenty of groups that have sprung up since donald trump won grass roots groups trying to get people to vote register to vote, and just talk to people in your neighborhood in your community. you're going to be more persuasive with someone who knows you, who trust you, than you are just you know tweeting at strangers online. and it's going to make you feel better about politics, too, because you will realize that people in ■çreal life are much more understanding and open than they seem just following this online. >> the thing you always say, joe, get out there and knock on doors, put in the yard sign and you will get the feel of the race and perhaps influence a couple votes along the way. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> george santos. >> nothing like that knock on doors, exactly. knock on doors, and it is pretty remarkable what happens when you get out and start talking to people that are going to decide elections. up next, a preview of the latest installment of the smash hit a quiet place film series. we will speak with the movie star and director ahead on morning joe weekend. morning joe weekend. an alternative to pills, voltaren is a clinically proven arthritis pain relief gel, which penetrates deep to target the source of pain with nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory medicine directly at the source. voltaren, the joy of movement. 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[ screams ] if we stay here, we die. >> i have a plan. >> it's the end of days. no more people. no more new york. no more nothing. >> run. >> that was a look at the new movie, titled, a quiet place day one. the film is a prequel to the first two smash hit a quiet place movies. those fell ms followed a ■çfami living and remote farm struggling to survive after the earth was taken over by aliens. quiet place day one descends on new york city and is not exactly known for being quiet. join us now two-time academy award nominated actor and the film's director and writer michael sarnoski. congrats on the fillp. thanks for being here. michael set the stage. day one, but what do the people, what are they getting into? >> they get into a lot. we start with the character of sam played by lupita nyong 'o coming into the city for a day trip, and then thousands of creatures rain down on the city and they have to deal with that. >> so the creatures here are much more visible and present than the original ■çtwo films. why make that choice. >> we upped the scale on the film so we need more excitement in that way, but we sort of parched them out a little bit so they are not overdone. we still keep them in the shadows enough it stays creepy. but, yeah, i mean, you are in new york city before the movie and in a real environment so you want to up it accordingly. >> so the first two, obviously, massive hits. you know, what drew you to that story? >> well, the success of the first one and i was offered to be in the second one but the accomplishment is having michael keeping the story character driven narrative as the first one and second one but this ■çis a horrific terror taking place. the stage is new york city. the loudest city in the world, the city that never sleeps and so, it's quite, yeah, it's quite an amazing. >> if we stepped out on 49th street we would be doomed considering how loud it is. let's look at the clip where the film's characters navigate the silent reality. ers navigate the silent reality. >> so djimon i >> so djimon i confessed i am not one for horror films but you say it's a different horror movie. >> for me, as a character, in a story, i played these, you know, characters similar to the one i am ■çplaying here, but th is an environment and what you are dealing with here, it's so much more challenging almost like hopeless. you know, this idea of surviving is almost hopeless. >> michael, give us the final word here as audience members who have such fond memories of the first two people are to see this one. >> i think for audience members if you loved the scares of the first two we dialed that up more and if you love the character drama, the first was a human drama about a family, you will have that in a different way with a unique character. and it becomes intimate and moving. >> we have a second hour of morning joe weekend on this sunday morning. coming up, after a quick break. nothing dims my light like a migraine. with nurtec odt, i found relief. the only migraine medication that helps treat and prevent, all in one. to those with migraine, i see you. for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults. don't take if allergic to nurtec odt. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. it's time we all shine. talk to a healthcare provider about nurtec odt from pfizer. i'm a rusty old boat hitch, and i am barely hanging on... ha ha ha. and while we're still miles from the lake, i'm gonna launch this boat right here. see ya. 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"new york times" point out he lied 26 times big lies. >> welcome to the fourth hour of morning joe. that was president biden first speaking to reporters after the debate and then with that answer to reporters about his performance. it was quite a night. i will tell you. and nbc news senior washington correspondent hallie jackson takes ■çus inside last night's debate room. >> reporter: on stage in the presidential debate, missteps from the current president and misleading attacks from the previous one. from president biden, who is battle voter concerns about his age a shaky start with a raspy voice he supped to lose his train of thought when asked about the national debt. >> making sure we are able to make every personnel jill for what i have been able to do with the -- with the covid -- excuse me, with dealing with everything we have to do with -- look, if we finally beat medicare. >> reporter: later, mixing up former president trump's name in comment about russia before correcting himself. >> if you take a look at what chum trump did in ukraine, he -- this guy ■çtold ukraine -- told trump, do whatever you want. do whatever you want. and that's exactly what trump did. to put un encourage him to do what you want. >> reporter: at the end, first lady jill biden escorting him off stage. two sources telling nbc news president biden had a cold. former president trump pouncing on rival's slipups. >> i really don't know what he said at the end of this, and i don't think he knows what he said. >> reporter: from mr. trump a series of dodges and lies about the 2020 election refusing to deliver a clear answer when asked if we accept the results. >> if it's a fair and legal and good election, absolutely. >> i doubt whether you will accept it because you were whiner. >> reporter: halfway through bringing up the convict. >> the only person on stage that's a convicted felon is the man ■çright now. >> reporter: and getting personal. >> how many billions do you owe in civil penalties for molesting a woman in public and doing a range of things of having sec sex with porn star on the night -- while your wife was pregnant. what are you talking about? you have a morals of an alley cat. >> reporter: into you going to answer. >> i didn't have sex with a porn star. >> reporter: and slamming mr. trump for calling veterans suckers and losers referencing his son with mr. trump denying he said it. >> my son was not loser or a sucker. you are the sucker is and loser. >> reporter: regard january 6th mr. trump down playing what happened during the attack on the capitol. >> on january 6th, we were respected all over the world all over the world we were respected. and then he comes in and we are laughed at. we are like ■ça bunch of stupid people. >> reporter: both candidates trying to make their case on issues key to the voters. >> he decimated the economy. >> reporter: and abortions. >> they. >> reporter: president biden pivoting to immigration in the answer on abortion one of his strongest issues according to polls. >> the idea that states are able to do this is a like saying we are going to turn civil rights back to the states. look, there's so many young women who have been included in the young woman who just was murdered and he went to the funeral. the idea that she h■ywas murder by an immigrant coming in and talk about that. >> reporter: afterwards, trump surrogates flooding the spin room to tout what they saw as decisive win. >> i ■çthought president trump was calm, strong, and thoughtful tonight. >> reporter: vice president kamala harris hitting airwaves to tee fend the president. >> there was a slow start but it was a strong finish. >> reporter: democratic lawmakers telling nbc news they are concerned about the president's performance with some wondering anonymously whether he should remain on the ticket. should you panic. >> do more and worry less. >> okay. so, clearly we will talk a lot about joe biden a perform and last night, his inability to land a thought, and put words together at times. but also, about donald trump. cnn daniel dale fact checked all the lies from the former president that he told throughout the night. take a look. >> what stood out was the staggering number of false claims from former president trump. on first count ■çi counted at least 30, 30 false claims. he said democratic states allow people to execute babies after birth. a lie that's illegal and he said everybody even tem kratts wanted roe v. wade. roe was supported by 2/3 of americans and said every legal scholar wanted abortion returned to the states. legal scholars have told me directly this is in the true. and he said the u.s. currently has the biggest budget deficit ever. that happened under trump in 2020 and he said the u.s. has a record trade deficit with china that happened under trump in 2018. and he said biden gets a lot of money from china zero evidence and he said there were no terror attacks during his presidency in fact there were multiple attacks. he said iran didn't fight hamas and iran did and said biden wants to quadruple people's taxes and that's fiction and said the u.s. ■çprovided way mo aid to ukraine than europe and it is the opposite and said the u.s. mass huhs provided $200 billion and it's closer to 110 billion. and he said 18 or 19 million people across the border under biden and that's millions too high and said many of the migrants are from prisons or mental institution and his campaign can't corroborate this. he said biden created jobs for illegal immigrants nonsense and nancy pelosi turned down his office of 10,000 guard troops. the president not pelosi who had the power to deployed the d.c. guard and said pelosi acknowledges that and it is a. >> i. saying he deployed the national guard to minneapolis and this was the democratic governor. and he smoke about fraud in the 202 election and said nato was going ■çout of business and clearly absurd and said the u.s. was paying 100% of nato. he came along. u.s. made up 71% of nato defense spending not 100. he said he not biden is the one who lowered insulin prices in medicare and he did it for some seniors but biden did it for more. he said biden indicted him no evidence biden what personal role any of the prosecution and says europe takes u.s. cars and spoke of food prices quadrupling under biden they are up. he said biden made up the idea he called dead service members the atlantic magazine reported that and former trump chief of staff john kelly corroborated. he said biden called black people super predators and biden never once deployed that phrase let alone for ten years and he did one speak of predators without specifying about black people. he said his trump tax cut was the largest in ■çu.s. history n true though in fairness biden said this. trump said china and others stopped buying from iran under him and china never stopped and revived his pet lie i don't know he signed the veterans choice program into law barack obama did that in 2014 trump signed an expanded version in 2018 and he said biden got rid of that veterans program biden has not done that. >> so, with that, joe, the candidate last night candidate trump literally has to be fact checked every second every time he opens his mouth. and he's a convicted felon. but, how did joe biden do last night. >> he didn't answer any of the lies in realtime. he didn't do it effectively. he had trouble finishing sentences and trouble delivering basically the punch lines. everything uot jumbled. listen joe biden shall we said it here, joe biden, i believe is an has been an exceptional president and the u.s. economy jobs more created than any time in 40 years. and you look at nato stronger than it has been since creation. more powerful since the creation. and you look at what the united states has done around china, there's finally been a pivot to asia. i can go down the long list but if you knew anything about international affairs and you are a donald trump supporter you wouldn't lie about china and understand china feels more him in than ever before because of what joe biden has done. i can go down the list. he's an effective president. he was not an effective candidate and gave democrats good reason to be conc¡ed. that he is up to the task of being president of the united states, but he may not be up to the task of defeating donald trump. >> we will see. i think joe biden had a terrible night last night and he's come back from worst in his life. multiple times. and he's also at his best when everybody counts him out. that's been the pattern with joe biden. willie, what do you think? >> well, as we have been saying this morning, there's the substance which we ran through, which is donald trump began lying and he ended the debate lying about just about anything you can go down the list and check off. these are the core issues of the campaign. economy he claims who have the strongest economy and we detailed many times on the showp. that is not true. he tried to rewrite the history about how he led the country during the pandemic. the covid, ■çall the things he said and did and did not do during the time when more than a million americans died. and, of course, about his role in the attack on the capitol on january 6th. he turned january 6th into a conversation about joe biden. and as joe has been pointing out, those were the moments when president biden could have stepped in and answered back with facts and pushed back. and the fact that the exchange we showed this, abortion a cornerstone issue for this campaign for joe biden, that he kind of went into a rambling answer that took left turn into immigration. did not bold well for how the night would go. there's no sugar coating but the question is what to do ■9 is this and being among democrats, and not just among donors and elected officials, but among voting democrats. how long does it last? because there's çsomething that joe biden can do to reassure them he is up to the task because this morning they are not feeling it right now. and if they don't think he is, what's the plan. that's the question that no one is answering right now. he's got to it aside and say a lot of people, okay, then what? what comes next? >> we have lots more to get to this hour. morning joe weekend continues after a short break. s after a short break. well, with your home, auto, boat and rv all bundled with progressive you've got the peace of mind to really wander. yeah. yeah, i just hope it stays this way. once word gets out about these places they tend to -- -are you done? -aaand there it is. well, at least your vehicles are protected. let's hit the road. hey fam! i'm just at this beautiful lake that i just discovered. practicing gratitude, manifesting abundance. nexium 24hr prevents heartburn acid before it begins. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium. hi, i'm greg. i live in bloomington, 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comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. high five! high five... -i'm on a call. it's 5 years of reliable, gig speed internet... five years of advanced security... five years of a great rate that won't change. yep, dave's feeling it. yes. but it's only for a limited time. five years? -five years. introducing the comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. powering 5 years of savings. powering possibilities. jen jen and simone i will start with you as two people who worked in the bide pen administration. jen as white house press secretary, what are your thoughts this morning? and what do you make of some of the calls from people who like joe biden, who think he is a good man, who has been a good president, and a great public servant that perhaps after what they saw last night, he does not give democrats the best chance to win in november. >> we are all getting them. and i ■çthink it's important to acknowledge that. and as you said, will i don't think anyone should sugar kate the debate performance especially the first half was not what the biden campaign wanted or needed out of that debate. i think it's important to remember they wanted this debate and wanted it early to change the dynamics right to reassure members of the party who were on the fence who were not quite coming home yet to the president that he was strong, that he could punch back at donald trump. he was exactly the person who be the nominee for this presidential race. they didn't accomplish that last night and it's important to state and acknowledge that. at the same time we are getting calls. people are freaking out. the campaign will be consumed whether ■çit's high level donor or down ticket candidates running for office. or just simply people running different groups and interest groups shall they work with or need to get across the finish line. it's going to be a very rocky couple weeks for them. but to your point, think the question is what now? joe biden needed this debate to do better than he did last night by a lot more than past presidents have. but i think it's important to remind people, and we have a historian so that's good, that president obama bombed the first debate. president bush bombed the first debate. and they still won a second term. and so what they need to do in the next couple days is show strength. he is going to be in north carolina. how does he do, áodand how does the fund raising numbers go. what are they doing to reassure down ballot ticket numbers pithy the vice president was excellent and ■çi would put her everywhere she could go this weekend he's wall he's governors. come back and come back strong in fighting because the challenge we don't know what voters think across the country. we don't know. >> and that's the important point. jen's point about the vote sets most important point. the what we are hearing from we are hearing from elected officials, we are hearing from political professionals operatives, people keyed in and expected a better joe biden last night. i am not surprised the people are like i don't know if he is the president on the ticket. that is very different than are we hearing from president's orbit and i asked campaign folks is first lady tapping the president on the shoulder telling him to get out. they are like no. i called up the folks at democratic national convention committee and said are you looking for a new nominee and they said no. i said i have to ask because ■ç that's what some people are saying. and they said that's not where they are yet, but the performance was not great. just what the voters thing the regular folks not keyed in and the folks in many soft focus groups. watching last night, i am interesting to hear what they think. the people this will see joe biden at whatever off the record stops he does in north carolina. people who talk to him in the photo lines he is in, what are they going to say? are they going to say, i don't know if joe biden is all the way there i or will they say, the man i saw today is different from the man on the debate stage last night. those things matter and we need time to hear those out. i will say this, though, about the elected officials, particularly house democrats. the house democrats particularly have the opportunity to really take back the house this ■çcycle. they are in the best -- some house democrats and front line members are running 10 points ahead of the president. looking at senate races like bob casey in pens jane, he is ahead of the president in pennsylvania. those faction last night particularly in the house were so concerned they called their own meetings. not to say oh can we get joe biden out of the race we need to speak amongst ourself front line members, new dems about how do we message going forward? what do we want to ask? how will we go back to the districts and talk about. i lastly i will note governors out on television this morning, the vice president out last night. i didn't see as many members of congress. so the biden campaign has to shore up the members of congress because they are some of the best ambassadors. >> yep. i also ■ç-- go ahead. i also hope have them watch it the president needs to watch because afterwards when he did the rally and event he was a new person. >> it was like hey now. >> who is that guy and where was the state of the union guy? and in the beginning he was so muted and he also did what we all seen him do a number of times. i talk about this before the debate which is really rely on and lean into statistics and data. right? and what happened there is he started to list statistics and data correct himself and he got lost and he seemed to lose his point and it made him seem confused and it was reiterating what people have concerns about. i hope he watches it and hopes someone. >> someone needs to tell him he didn't do well, sorry. >> yes. and it is the important for them to not only walk through part every only walk through answer and see what happened. and you know, you guys brought up a great point about the other democrats that are running. one of the surprises talking to pollsters is the cycle for all of joe biden's struggles, actually democratic senate candidates are doing better than expected. they are doing better than -- and they are running far ahead of joe biden in so many states right now. i suspect if that gulf widens more or if he starts becoming a drag on those senate candidates and, of course, the house members who have better than 50% chance of taking back the house next year, then the pressure may grow. jonathan you are in atlanta. get us caught up from down there about what you heard last night what you are hearing ■çth morning. >> that's right, joe. certainly there was stunned disbelief among democrats here last night. many of whom had fairly high hopes for the president. thinking this would be a moment to answer the doubts about his age and about his fitness for the job as when the debate ended, it was held across the street from the media file on the campus of georgia tech. and in downtown atlanta. it was striking. and within 30 seconds or less, all the trump surrogates campaign aides and vice presidential picks flooded to talk to the media in the basketball arena doubling as the media file to spin the race and say their guy won. it took 15, 20 minutes or so for any democrats any biden aides to come out and when they did the mood was rather subdued. and they dent stay ■çlong befor leaving. yet in the campaign put out a statement the campaign chair, gave a forceful defense of the president's performance last night saying he still has shop contrast with donald trump, we have heard from other democrats make that same case, but, others are really worried. some of that saying the public view and a lot in private wondering if he can issue a course correction in the days ahead. wondering if there would be active consideration for him to step aside if so who would do it? would it be the family or obamas or senate majority leader schumer leading the charge to nudge president biden to the door. all people with great affection for the president who say he has done a tremendous job in the first term but wonder if he is up for the next four months of this campaign. >> you're watching morning joe weekend. we will be right back. ■ç d. we will be right back. to me, harlem is home. but home is also your body. i asked myself, why doesn't pilates exist in harlem? so i started my own studio. getting a brick and mortar in new york is not easy. chase ink has supported us from studio one to studio three. when you start small, you need some big help. and chase ink was that for me. earn up to 5% cash back on business essentials with the chase ink business cash card from chase for business. make more of what's yours. 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( ♪ ♪ ) start your day with nature made. the #1 pharmacist recommended vitamin and supplement brand. this summer. snacking. just. got. serious. introducing new $3 footlong dippers. the world might not be ready for them... ...but at $3 a pop? your wallet definitely is. joining us resident scholar at american enterprise institute for public policy research. the dough nice of the commission of presidential debates. good morning. we can talk about the commission on presidential debates in a second, but we spent the last four hours or so cataloging all the lies that donald trump told last night, right out of the gate, all the way up until the end. pick your issue and he told a lie about it. recognizable lie the problem was that president biden was not there in the breach to push back on some pretty low hanging fruit. so, what is your sense of the damage that may have been done to the president last night and where we go from here? >> so, let's put this in the context of history. we have had three other performances by incumbent presidents. we had gerald ford who said poland was free we knew what he meant but it reenforced the stereotype of a president who doesn't quite up to the task. we had really barack obama, who had a really bad debate the first one with mitt romney. and i think perhaps the worst example of all was ronald reagan who demonstrated some mental fallout in his first debate with walter mondale. he came back in a second debate, and so did barack obama. and the question for joe biden is whether this will be the same as it was ■çwith jerry for where it reinforces a stereotype and you can't get out of it. and that hurt plenty in a election that was very close or whether he can pivot now. he can't pivot with a second debate very soon. the question is i think over next three or four days if he can get out not at fund raising events, but doing in-depth interviews that show that this was a one off, that can reassure people, including that democratic base and the funders, and that's where the analogies come in with the past. but, you know, performance was not helped by the moderators of the debate but it was his task to carry ford and he didn't. >> yeah, and the difference in some of the instances that norm rightly brings up is take barack obama in 2012, with mitt romney. that by most analysis was a ■ç case of overconfidence or lack of confidence he was 51. president biden 81 last night and a lot of people were tuning in yes for the substance and lies we cataloged this morning donald trump told but they wanted to see visually stylistically is joe biden up to defeating donald trump. and for many the answer was no. >> yeah, after that first debate with mitt romney i don't remember any democrats saying barack obomba should step down and the level of concern is not like because of age and competence as you suggested. but norm, if -- do you think one democrats s: a serious conversation at the moment about replacing joe biden? and two, if they are thinking of doing thp, and having the conversations, how would it work in practice? >> and that's, i think one of the real problems here. there are a lot of people who think in that you can snap your fingers and end up in a candidate that's perfect. there's no mechanism for doing this unless biden both decided he wasn't going to run, and had almost every figure in the democratic party, including all of the other potential nominees, rally behind kamala harris, otherwise you end up with a zoo at a convention and a divided party that is not going to be very helpful to them. so they are not in a good place right now, and we have to watch for the next three or four days, and see also see whether there's a cratering in the polls. if that happens, ■çif his standing, which was not great going into the debate, is significantly worse, you're going to see a real drum beat to get him to step back and they will have to come with up a different mechanism. i am not sure it will work that way. i think he will soldier through. but there's not a lot of great options right now. >> resident scholar at american enterprise institute for public policy research, thank you very much, norm. next, new york magazine is out with new reporting on the role former president obama is playing in this year's election. those details are next. ection. those details are next. oooh! i can't wait for this family getaway! shingles doesn't care. shingles is a painful, blistering rash that can last for weeks. ahhh, there's nothing like a day out with friends. that's nice, but shingles doesn't care! 99% of adults 50 years or older already have the virus that causes shingles inside them, and it can reactivate at any time. a perfect day for a family outing! guess what? 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[ screams ] in. in. former president barack obama expected to join president biden on the campaign trail in the coming months. this comes after the pair recently reunited at a number of fund raisers. one in new york city, and one in los angeles. let's bring in national correspondent for new york magazine gabe, the latest piece is about that relationship. entitled what obama is whispering to biden. so tell us, gabe, what is it? >> well, it's a whole lot these days. and a lot more than it was even a few months ago. as we talked about before, the relationship has shifted a lot over ■çthe multiple decades. and they didn't -- the two presidents were not talking a ton especially not about politics late last year. that all changed last december when biden invited obama to the white house for wide ranging conversation but touched on the state of the reelection campaign. and obama basically tried to explain to biden this is how we did things in 2012 with our reelection, you might be wise to look at lessons from how we set that campaign up. ever since then obama has been talking a lot to a number of people in the bideened orbit including the aides biden sent to run the campaign in wilmington after the conversation in obama. and obama has raised a lot of money for biden but there are he things he's interested in is how the campaign is reaching out to young people, and how the campaign is engaging with black voters, particularly, these are things he watched ■çvery closel even as behind the scenes he is doing things like as you pointed out raising money in the short run. the question now is what's the role going to look like over the next few months. >> gabe, one of the things that strikes me, i remember in '08, biden and obama ran against each other and the interaction i had in the white house was with biden he was key in the affordable care and they came from different places they worked together. how much of this does -- in your eye do you think president obama sees the protection of his legacy and the things that he was able to get done? >> yeah, i don't think ■çthat's something he explicitly talks about when the two talks or when obama is talking to biden aides but there's no doubt that's the subtext to a lot of what's going on here. because of the basic question, you know, are they going to be basically facing the destruction of their legacy both joint and individual if trump comes back. one of the things that obama has repeatedly encouraged some of the top biden aides running the campaign to do is focus on the contrast when it comes to, for example, the affordable care act. that's something that democrats have been doing pretty effectively for a long time now ever since the passage you know over a decade and a -- almost a decade and a half ago. but now it's something that is a very popular legacy of obama's. no one doubts if trump comes back mainly parts of it would probably see destruction. so obama has over and over said, this is a positive thing you guys should be ■çfocusing o >> the new pieces online right now for new york magazine. national correspondent, thanks so much for your reporting this morning. next, yale's jeff the so- called cea whisperer reports on top business executives reacted to the recent meeting with donald trump. ing with donald trump. the itch and rash of moderate to severe eczema disrupts my skin, night and day. despite treatment, it's still not under control. but now i have rinvoq. rinvoq is a once-daily pill that reduces the itch and helps clear the rash of eczema - fast. some rinvoq patients felt significant itch relief as early as 2 days. some achieved dramatic skin clearance as early as 2 weeks. and many taking rinvoq saw clear or almost-clear skin. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal, cancers, including lymphoma and skin; heart attack, stroke, and gi tears occurred. people 50 and older with a heart disease risk factor have an increased risk of death. serious allergic reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. help heal your painful skin - disrupt the itch and rash of eczema. talk to your doctor about rinvoq. learn how abbvie can help you save. everybody wants super straight, super white teeth. they want that hollywood white smile. new sensodyne clinical white provides 2 shades whiter teeth and 24/7 sensitivity protection. i think it's a great product. it's going to help a lot of patients. the cockroach. resilient creatures. true miracles of evolution. where there is one, others aren't far behind. always scavenging for food, the cockroach... well that's horrifying. ortho home defense max indoor insect barrier. one application kills and prevents bugs for 365 days. not in my house you don't. nature is wild. your home doesn't have to be. this is remington. ...he's a member of the family, for sure. we always fed them kibble— it just seemed like the thing to do. but ...he was getting picky we heard about the farmer's dog... and it was a complete transformation. his coat was so soft, he had amazing energy. he was a completely different dog. it's a no-brainer that (remi) should have the most nutritious and delicious food possible. i'm investing in my dog's health and happiness. let's talk about these billionaires and ceos. to speak out if someone's loyalty is pretty clear. but what are they saying behind closed doors? you have a pipeline. >> no one came to meet with president trump. that was quarterly meeting and as actually in gene italy at the time for the g7 meetings. and the chief of staff went and did a very ■çgood job. in his place. the ceos, historically, not to question what andrew said but historically, this group has been 60 to 70% republican leaning throughout history. there were tom watsons of ibm and they were the exception that were democrats. and in fact, going back to william howard taft, to calvin coolidge and reagan and bushs, the group is 40 to 60% openly financially publically supporting the gop and starting with trump 0. 2016, 0, 2020 just 2 and now it's none again. that's a profound break in historic pattern that ceos don't want to be identified with the republican candidate. that's profound and they hate his position. his economic positions which we could talk about. but the way he ■çtears apart th social fabric of society. tokefield when he came to the country in 1840 more important than financial capital is social capital. and the way trump goes for the wedge issues, you know, many times of course, especially around charlottesville when we had these antiracial bias peaceful protesters, equated with the white supremacist, the ceo stepped away. first time in american history. wave after wave pulled away from the president's advisory councils at our own events after january 6th in 2021, the ceos and 100, 70, 75% republican voted for him to be impeached. that was shocking. i didn't expect that outcome. they left him. they are not flocking to him. and to tell you a secret, they never flocked to him. some ■çof the people whose name we talk about on the shows as supporting him, in 2005 i brought them to one of the ceo summits, and those exact people said if he walks in the room we are walking out and that top tier did all walk out. >> let me ask you this, one of the issues that a lot of ceos are dealing with is dei. diversity, equity and inclusion. many of the people that have been leading the battle to erase dei or stop dei. steven miller, bill ac kman all of which supported trump and how are ceos reacting to that because they are getting pressure from civil rights group like mine, that they can't back out of dei with consumers. on the other hand trump ■çis an- dei supreme court went against affirmative action. how do they mitigate this or is that part of why they are staying silent one of the issues they don't want to get into the middle of is dei. >> one of the things -- it's a fantastic question because it's new how they handle it. we at the university world had our hand slapped trying to figure out how to navigate. the coes wants to weave together the tapestry of society to make it equill and worry about the language from time to time. so they try to weave around the language. but the ceos are not xenophobics on immigration issues and are not isolationist or protectionists and they believe in the rule of law and the. >> the law of rulers. and they are trying to find a way to make this work. and what they would like to find right now is they would like to find something ■çthat y tap into but not an enough of colleagues do that interlocket arms and trade aprofessional and ama and aba institutional investors. they need to support the ceos when they take the stands if they are not on a limb. these are the people who only companies and ceos are hired hands and need the support of other civic leaders. but you are right, as they work their way through us, and those companies are out performing. the companies that didn't give up on dei, microsoft, or i don't know whoever you think of, apple, they are doing extremely well. it's the alt-right economy that's doing table. conditions that disparage dei are doing terribly. ■;á school systems across the country are voting to ban students from using cell phones in class. sighologist and oughtor jonathan hiet explains why the move is critical to children's brain development. to childrens brain development. citi's industry leading global payments solutions help their clients move money around the world seamlessly in over 180 countries... and help a partner like the world food programme as they provide more than food to people in need. together, citi and the world food programme empower families across the globe. ♪♪ an alternative to pills, voltaren is a clinically proven arthritis pain relief gel, which penetrates deep to target the source of pain with nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory medicine directly at the source. voltaren, the joy of movement. ( ♪ ♪ ) start your day with nature made. the #1 pharmacist recommended vitamin and supplement brand. a a growing number of school districts across the country are now considering banning cell phones and social media. this comes after the second largest school district ■çin lo angeles voted last week to prohibit students from using cell phones and social media during day. a survey found 72% of high schoolteachers said cell phone distraction is major problem in the classroom. the problem is it's a major problem outside of the classroom. joining us now social psychologist jonathan haidt author of the book entitled the anxious generation. how the great rewiring of childhood is causing an epidemic of mental illness. i think obviously, this is a step in the right direction. but i don't even think it begins to address the problem as kids are up all night with their phones. they are completely addicted, and the impact is being seen across the nation. where is this headed, do ■çyou think? >> well, i think in the last year, since covid receded the kids are in bad shape and we are seeing it. there's growing awareness, the phones and basically the phone based childhood, is causing all kinds of developmental problems. and so i think the surgeon general's request there be warning labels. i think we are turning the corner on recognizing that we don't just have to accept this. well, the kids are going to be on the phones for the rest of their live. we don't have to accept that. teachers, in particular have been begging us to take phones out of schools. they are incredible distraction. so i am excited by the speed which schools and school districts and states are moving towards phone free schools. >> mú■think it's headed to a clash action lawsuit like tobacco. i could be. >> i really do. >> it could be extreme i have been saying -- okay. so i think this is also not just for kids. i definitely struggle with the distraction of the phone, and the blending of work and family across the country. joe's off his completely. except for his ipad while on the show. he's completely off. >> yes. >> the smart phones and has a flip. so he comes up in my phone as joe flip. >> i -- you know i have been trying to do it for several years. the quality of life. >> it changes. >> it changes to so-called smart phone and iphone. it is just dismal. i spend, you know, i will send a text, and i will spend the o next, you know, half a day with text flooding in, and so, yeah. >> answering 20 others. >> yeah. so my kids have my flip phone and that's about it. but, you know, there -- i've done it in part because of the studies not only about anxiety and depression, and everything else for kids, but also the way it requires all of our brains. it is just -- it is just like when i have to work, i have to work. and i have to do this and i have to do that and i understand that. but away from work, this rewires our brain to look at people in restaurants with families who look at them constantly looking at their phones every 14 seconds. it is madness. >> that's right. so, we adults all see it. you've seen it. people who go off for ■çthree weeks find benefit. now you say it's rewiring our brains. as adults, we went through puberty with normal childhood and had lot of face-to-face contact and adventures and free play. millennials didn't get smart phones a or social media until later. p we adult, phone based life is sledding our attention and makes us feel overwhelmed but it's not exaly rewiring our brains in a major way. let's look at a 10-year-old. 10-year-old is about to go into puberty and 10-year-old is about to experience the most massive brain rewiring since the first year of life. and that's going to be guided by the inputs through the eyes and ears. and this is roughly the age which we give our kids a phone, they get instagram and tiktok and now they are going to have massive stimulation of a very strange variety. some of which ■çis going to encourage eating disorders, suicide, and anxiety. so, i think the evidence for adolescents is greater that, yeah, it's rewiring the way their brains are developing in this really critical sensitive period of puberty. that's my main point. we have to get all this stuff out of middle school, and we have got to delay social media until at least age 16 should be the minimum. >> jonathan, we know it's particularly bad for girls and it had detrimental and you sound a little objects mistic when you look at school district and the states new m;>% york, florida, california. you know these very different states. you sound a little optimistic that we ■çare get fog a getting to a stage in society we are doing what we need to do to protect ourself from the overload of information. >> i am wildly optimistic we will roll this back because i spent a lot of my life advocating for change and work on issues about democracy. those are really hard and always partisan issues and i don't know how to solve this. this issue, our kids are addicted and our kids are their lives are governor by a few giant companies, we see it. parents all over the world see it, legislators, most of them have kids. so, we are seeing a wave of legislation not just in the u.s., but in europe and australia and new zealand and most exciting to me is pcr9qm are coming together saying we have to solve this collectively. that's what i advocate. this is a collective action problem. nonech us want none of us want to say you are the only one that don't have a phone and social media no if we delay giving them a smart phone until 14 and if we delay social media until 16 we can get them through puberty before we turn on garbage hose. >> all right. it sounds like a great plan. social psychologist and author jonathan haidt, thanks so much. greatly appreciated. the book out is a must-read. titled the anxious generation. how the great rewiring of childhood is causing an epidemic of mental illness. and that's it for us this weekend. thanks for spending your sunday morning joe is back for a brand new week tomorrow starting at 6:00 a.m. eastern four hours a day. until then, enjoy the rest of your weekend. f your weekend.