An excuse for inaction. Right there, i feel better. That cant be excuse for inactions. That means he is committed and going on the recognize, some kind of action. Good morning, its tuesday, december 18th. With us, we have mike barnicle, author of thomas jefferson, willie, joe and me as well. That was fascinating, wasnt it . That was. That was dead serious. He was not feeling anything else at that point, i think. I tell you, yesterday really did touch americans in a way, this whole weekend, and the president s speech and people like joe manchin stepping forward, really, i think i think its got americans talking, for the first time, on this issue, in a really surprising way. I was i was struck not by how Many Democrats or liberals called after the show and said, boy, we really liked what you guys did and the conversation was needed. I was struck by how many friends of mine from First Baptist church in pensacola, florida, that are lifetime members of the nra, who went out hunting across northwest florida and alabama and georgia and mississippi, from the time they were 9, 10. Jon meacham, you were raised in a similar culture. Although you were wearing white gloves during your formative years. Im sorry. I was struck that the most passionate people that said what you always want to hear, thank you for saying what i wanted to say. Thank you for putting into words. They were they were, my friends from First Baptist church, they were hunters, they were people that said, im not going to have somebody im not going to have extremists take my right to keep and bear a arms, protect my family, and go hunting with my kids. I think thats the key word. Gun owners who think this through realize that the Second Amendment culture has bone totally captured by extremists since before really, but i think the marker is when, in 1994, i think, the phrase, jack booted thugs, remember, was used about the atf and people like george h. W. Bush and norman schwartzcof resigned from the nra. With every horrible act that happens, its taken too long, but the story of the country in many ways is of coming to a consciousness that is overdue. Lets also talk, mika, about the financial incentives of the gun trade. Well theyre out there as well. This is not just about politics, its not just about liberty, about a lot of money, too. The big thing thats happening here and you see that in the people who are speaking out and those who are not, theres a shift in attitudes, as the New York Times puts in their headline today, i think will be lasting. I dont know how any there are several networks, not just ours, having trouble finding pro gun advocates to speak out because theres really nothing to say at this point. Can you think of anything in your political career, where something has happened and you realize you just cant take 9 11. 9 11 happened and there were a lot of conservatives after 9 11 very wary, very suspicious of federal government expansion, expansion of powers. And im one of them. That afterwards, youre like, okay, if the tsa wants to be intrusive, let the tsa be intrusive. If we have to do things that make me uncomfortable, as a small government conservative. Fine. This is really, this is a domestic version of 9 11, where everything changed. Everything did change. One thing joe manchin said yesterday, after he talked about his transformation and the way he thinks about guns and gun rights, was that the president needs to move quickly on this if theyre going to do something significant, talking about in the next week, the next couple of weeks before unfortunately this moment to some degree will pass, will move out of the news cycle a little bit and we wont focus on it as we are. Joe manchin, not youve been talking about guns such a long time. It does need to be comprehensive. There are hollywood interests. Its so fascinating, very few criticism, almost none from the right, of what we said yesterday. Almost none. A couple critiques from the far left, say iing, i didnt get ho dare you talking about infringing on our rights. I actually gotsome leftists talking about how dare you talk about infringing on our rights. Were all going to have to meet in the middle to save our children, leftists, extreme right wingers and they have to know the old rules dont apply. Quinton tarantino said something call lou call callous yesterday who made millions of dollars making violent movies he sells to teenage boys, ah, these things happen. Im not going to cancel anything. I will promote this. I think harvey stepped in, you are, we are going to cancel some of this stuff. Everybody has to give. Everybody has to realize there are extreme ideologies and no matter what happens, as we progress here, were always going to have the fringe. The fringe on the left and the fringe on the right. This is one of those unique events, i would submit, as in life, it will happen in politics, where emotion will pull the logic train. The emotion of what happened in newtown, connecticut, the emotion contained in a week of funerals, were at the front of a church or synagogue or a mosque, youre going to be very small there are going to be very small caskets. T. J. , if we still have the picture of jack pinto buried yesterday in newtown, connecticut, buried in his Little League uniform, that right there is what is going to change the dialogue for this. People carry around for years pictures of their children in Little League uniforms, hockey uniforms, first and second grade school picture. Thats the picture, the emotion that will pull this thing. If it doesnt, theres a serious problem. I understand the president does has a lot to do, when it comes to making sure that our economy doesnt fall off the cliff. There are tens of millions of working americans that know that the fiscal cliff situation needs to be addressed. Isnt human nature funny, though, how we need to get moving on this . Those Critical Issues you just mentioned, they seem so insignificant. I mean, if they cant figure that out i think thats one of the reasons give us something. Why the president moved, john boehner moved. It would look ridiculous at this point in light of everything. They need to get this taken care of. Then the president does, as David Letterman was saying, the president needs to do something. My friends in the Republican Party need to do something and i know they will. I really believe, they will listen, jon meacham, to their friends in the church, enough is enough. Protect our children. I keep thinking about bloody sunday through the Voting Rights act. March to august of 65, where john lewis and Isaiah Williams are nearly beaten to death. That film from selma, is in a newsbreak, as abc is showing judgment at nurenburg. Suddenly americans are watching this movie about the third rite and realizing there are still storm troopers in the United States beating people for fundamental rights and they were themselves martyrs. Johnson went to congress that week and by august the bill was signed. It requires that kind of president ial leadership. To harness this emotion before it dissipates. So lets take it to newtown, connecticut, which is a community attempting to move forward after the events that killed 20 children and six adults. Classes resume today in several schools with additional security. The town will also say its final goodbyes to 6yearold jessica rekos. M services were held yesterday and 6yearold noah pozner and jack pinto. Pintos family vowed to celebrate jacks life remembering the gift we were given and will forever cherish. Several other Services Planned throughout the week including two private funerals for tomorrow including one for sandy School Elementary school principal, dawn hochsprung, after she confronted the killer, lanza. And hoping his computer will provide more information about the shooting. That drive however was removed from the computer and severely damaged by the shooter. So far, police have been unsuccessful in attempts to retrieve any of the drives data. Officials are also reporting the guns used in the massacre were purchased legally by his mother, nancy lanza and shorts verified she and her son had visited local shooting ranges. We have to be very careful. I will be very careful. We have to be very careful. I do not understand. I dont get it. By all accounts, he i dont understand this part of the story. Was a challenged child that needed support. I dont understand this part of the story. Actually, my husband covered the story yesterday. That exact angle, why she had guns, why she went with him. What that was about. Jim is obviously an Investigative Reporter at wabc. A couple people came to her defense. It still is a huge question. What did he conclude in this story . Its just a question. Why would you have those guns . You can have them legally, and if you have a child that is challen challenging, that perhaps has a disorder of some sort, by all accounts he had asbergers or Something Else, just what was the reason for the connection and the exposure to assault weapons. There was something connected obviously, we apparently she took him to these shooting ranges. Im just saying on the asbergers front, there are obviously a lot of children with asbergers that dont present problems but this child presented obvious challenges for a very long time. Im curious, was there an answer as to why she collected she was a gun enthusiast. According to people in the area, that is something that is quite popular there. There is a shooting range nearby. There is obviously the foundation that supports gun owners, about three miles from the school. Its part of the culture. Certainly, that should be taken into consideration. There is absolutely no data that links asbergers to violent acts. No. The question is as a parent look, im a parent and i wouldnt want guns in my house. I just wouldnt. Id be too nervous about it. I dont understand how that can happen and im going to say that. I dont have a problem. You say that as somebody that might be a little judgmental. I grew up around guns and they always made me incredibly nervous. Your family had guns. Family of hunters, they still do. My brothers hunt and i usually come home to a pickup truck with a deer in the back when i come home for christmas. From my perspective, which is not completely separate from the gun culture, it doesnt make any sense to me. Of course, its easy to say that in retrospect, but it doesnt make any sense. We dont know the whole story there, we may never because theyre both deceased. The reason you go to the gun range, you teach them how to use guns safely. You go to a gun range so he knows how to operate them and use them safely. That doesnt answer the question whether or not she should have had them in the house at all with a child like that. A glock. Guess what . Were never going to know. Is it okay to ask the question . A lot of people will jump all over this. You just wonder jon, you wanted to say something. The room in my grandparents house where i spent my childhood was called the gun room. Right. It was shotguns, it w was the safest place to be a quail in the 1980s was anywhere near me because i was going to miss. But its there was never any question about bushmasters and right. Thats the thing. Hundreds of rounds what senator manchin said yesterday so important about he never had more than three shells in a rifle. Thats where this cultural thing. People say, oh, well, people on the Upper Eastside dont understand tennessee or georgia or alabama. I dont think thats true. Thats nonsense. I was born in northwest florida. I mean, i was born in georgia, i moved to meridian, mississippi. I lived in the outskirts of meridian mississippi. I grew up with i mean the Bedroom Community of briar wood, i mean, we im dead serious. There were woods all around us. We spent our summer days outside. Everybody had guns. Everybody had guns. Everybody hunted. I went to school, university of alabama. I lived in tuscaloosa for four years. I lived in northwest florida. All my friends at church, hunters, my friends at school, hunters, ive never ever talked to one, never talked to one that said, you know what, i need a 10 millimeter glock. I need a bushmaster. If i dont have those, then you know what, my culture is being infringed upon. Its nonsense. These weapons are part of a culture. But theyre not part of my culture and theyre not part of your culture, theyre not part of my northwest florida culture or tus sca loose sa, alabama culture or meridian, mississippi culture or georgia culture or Central Florida culture where i went to law school. I spent my entire life growing up around people who hunted all the time. Hunting and fishing. Its like boo weekley, after he won the ryder cup, hes from florida where my dad group. The outskirts of pensacola florida. Bedroom community. Bedroom community. The attitude is, where im from, after he won the ryder cup. You have to be excited. He said, well, i cant hunt or fish, this is a nice third. He was dead serious. Those are the people i represented. And i tell you what, 95 of them that i sat in the church pews with, 99 of them, they wouldnt tell you this morning that a 10 millimeter glock is a sacred part of their culture they had to protect. If they didnt have a bushmaster in their house is with 300 rounds of ammunition. Is bushmaster and ammunition, thats family time, to go to a shoot range and blow up things . Come on. Jon, you grew up like i grew up, really, you lived in tennessee for four years, i cant tell you how many homes ive been in across the south and there were shotguns and the shotguns were in the cabinets. Yeah. Everywhere. Nothing wrong with that. No. Thats our way of life. Not only the south, i mean, all over the country. Please, i wish i could say i wish i could say the worse because ive said much worse. This b. S. This is a sacred part of the American Culture is, willie, b. S. Even mayor Michael Bloomberg as tough as can be on guns doesnt want to take away the Second Amendment. You can have guns, you just cant have assault rifles. I dont think he grew up in the south. No, i dont think so either. South medford, massachusetts. N near tufts. As we sit here in new york, you cant discount the sentiment that is out there that is a slippery slope. If i begin to take a way afew things they will come for everything else. Youre exactly right. Its not a sensible argument, because nobody that i know, and including me and my family, needed this kind of assault weapon culture. I think what changed, i go back to early 90s thing, the rise of the glock, about which books have been written, the phrase assault weapon itself is a post vietnam phrase. Something happened in the 80s, early 90s, that militarized, that su ddsudomilitarized the ce and the capture of the nra. What was the nra in the 1950s . Where you learned how to shoot a target. Do you remember, im sure you do, at the start of the first gulf war, millions of americans sat around and watched, on tv, a video game, in ee feffect, of w being conducted in the middle east. Startling pictures. General schwartz corkoff get up we have the video games on the ground, that may have been the psyche of too Many Americans that war, assault weapons is a video game. That is certainly what we have going on today. If you see the advertisements for some of these video games you were speaking to yesterday. There was no concept of the reality of what a gunshot looks like on a human being. There is no concept of the actual noise of gunfire or the damage that a glock or certainly a bushmaster or assault weapon can do because you have a video game mentality. By the way, a lot of the people that are reflexively supporting the right of people to have semiautomatic weapons, they have no idea. They just have no idea. Its reflexive. Enough is enough. Thats where culture and Political Leadership comes in. People do believe this is a munich. If you get one thing, theyre coming for the next. Its not true and that argument has to be made in a convincing way. We have people like joe manchin coming out, lifetime member of the nra, governor of West Virginia, grew up in the hunting culture. Thats the key. You have to have more people. With all due respect to Michael Bloomberg, he aint going to convince anybody in america that its not a slippery slope. Hes just not but joe manchin will. Other conservatives from the south, out west. People that grew up in a hunting culture, where you walk around the gun room, you sat at night with cases around, with fathers that taught you how to use guns safely, those are the people that will sway this debate. Heres what i will say about bloomberg that there is now, because of how much time hes served, real data in new york city, as to what he has been able to do, that shows certain important numbers going down. Hell talk more about that when he comes on the show. Understand what im i know. Understand what im saying about mike. Mike has been out front on this for a very long time. Im just talking about willies concern and the concern of all of us that some law abiding nra members are not going to be moved and swayed by what Michael Bloomberg says, whereas a guy like joe manchin that grew up in this culture, that understands this culture. Yeah. Will be able to say, hey, listen, heres the deal. Theyre not coming for our guns. Ill be the first to stand in the way of my door and not let the government come for my guns or your guns. But you know what, i dont have a 10 millimeter glock because when i take my kids and grandkids out deer hunting, i dont need a glock or a bushmaster to take them down or to protect my house more importantly. Coming up, we will talk to new york city mayor Michael Bloomberg and senator elect chris murphy and tom brokaw and eugene robinson. First, bill karins with a check on the forecast. Bill. Rainy morning, mika. Yesterday, fog problems, baltimores airport was shut down last night. Have to make up a lot of flights this morning. The rain will be moving out. If youre traveling in northern new england, thats the only place we have snow and other places green, rainy in providence. And New York Tim