Separate arab and jewish states. Fighting broke out between the two groups and israel declared independence in may 1948. The next day, israel was invaded by jordan, egypt, lebanon, syria and iraq. But the fledgling country survived. The u. N. Passed resolution 194 in december 1948 which allowed ref are geez who wished to live peacefully the right to return home at the earliest practical date. Nearly 20 years later in 1967, israel pre em tifl struck Egyptian Forces after the access was blocked to the port. Israel gained control over areas including the west bank and gaza strip and east jerusalem. For arabs, this was the beginning of a period of occupation by israel which remains at the center of todays conflict. Now, there would be another air rob israeli war in 1973. Before that, theres the formation of the plo or the Palestinian Liberation Organization which would be defined by the likes of yasir arafat. In 1978, u. S. President jimmy carter helped to broker the peace accords between saadat of egypt and Prime Minister ba begin of israel which paved the way for the 1979 peace treaty between those two countries. The lalt 80s saw the formation of hamas in the west bank and gaza erasing hopes. The oslo accords signed establishing recognition of each side between israel and the plo. Years of talks followed and marred by disagreement. Mahmoud abbas is elected as arafats successor by the palestinian people. In the same year, israel withdraws from all settlements in gaz in. Hamas then wins big in the elections sending a ripple of worry around the world. Since then, the back and forth continued with no definitive end to the conflict. Lets be clear, this cribbed version of history doesnt begin to explore the complexity. In fact, i sort of picked and chose which moments of the timeline to highlight, which sa i controversial approach to the story of the middle east. Even the starting point that i chose can be deemed controversial. Others may begin at britains involvement or in the 1917 balance for declaration. There are those that have gone all the way back to the biblical era. The very language that we use when talking about the middle east can be a mine field with certain words carrying hidden meanings, indicating sympathy for one side or the other. Accurately and fairly and comprehend hence civilly selling the story of the middle east region is impossible in this setting. What i can tell you is whats going on right now. On wednesday, Israeli Defense forces launched operation pillar of defense which a strike that killed the head of the hamas military wing. That was the idfs answer after months of attacks on Israeli Soldiers and cities. Hundreds of rockets have been launched into southern israel this year to the point of being nearly commonplace. But on thursday, warning sirens went off in tel aviv for the First Time Since 1991s gulf war. Israel, for its part, has been carrying out hundreds of air strikes in gaza and the current death toll from the latest escalation includes at least 49 palestinians half civilians and at least three israeli civilians. Hamas militants have continued with rocket attacks and israel lined up thousands of troops on the gaza border while more reservist. General ban kimoon is set to head to the region next week and reports from last night indicate multiparty talks are taking place in egypt. Even the nature of the meetings is unclear. President obama who is traveling in asia, had this to say about the ongoing conflict. Theres no country on earth that would tolerate missiles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders. So we are fully supportive of israels right to defend itself from missiles landing on peoples homes. Firm word from president obama. But president obama knows that any mandate he can claim after reelection is one focusing on domestic concerns. Does he have the Political Capital to more deeply engage the United States in a seemingly neverending conflict, possibly with no foreseeable end. At the table, rule a gentleman bril, chris hayes, my friend and host of up with chris hayes here on msnbc and jane eisner, the editor in chief of the jewish daily forward and mark quarterman, Research Director at the enough project. Thank you all for being here. So this is as i was saying earlier this morning, this is going to be a pretty sober conversation. I want to be clear that sometimes the topics we take on, on mhp are my wheelhouse and the things that i sort of have my fundamental point to make. Today i feel more like the audience in that i feel overwhelmed by this these developments. I feel distressed by them. I feel, chris, like we dont have necessarily even the common vocabulary to have a conversation about what is happening. As you sort of are observing this from your chair at up from your position, what is it we need to know . Oh, gosh. I thought you did a good job in the intro. I think let me say this. Part of the theres two things we need to know. One is that pal sinnians and the folks that live in gaza and the west bank exist even when there isnt violence and theyre in the news and israelis and they who live, both arab and ju thats a primary fact that we tend to lose sight of in the American Press in which we only Pay Attention when there is violence. The second thing to understand is that the context of this is that there are internal politics in israel that are driving Strategic Decisions being made by politicians and by military commanders and there are internal politics in gaza and in the west bank and those internal products are different, there are two groups that control the areas that are driving those Strategic Decisions that we have a tendency to say this is the intractable conflict between these peoples and theyre subject to constituency and press and things do for domestic purposes as much as president obama and the congress. This is, in part, jane, i think what happens if i begin to sort of walking back to tell the story and like if we sort of all the way back, it feels like incompetent tractable and its about peoples. It is about politics. It is. You brought up a really good point. That theres been tremendous amount of Division Within the palestinian people. The Palestinian Authority in the west bank, hamas in gaza. There was a brutal civil war some years ago. Its not just that hamas won an election. They also then many hundreds of people died in that civil war to enable hamas to establish control in gaza. While palestinians i have spoken to wish fervently for a reconciliation or unity, it hasnt yet. Its because theres so many internal divisions within the Palestinian Community that have made this kind of unity very difficult to achieve. Mark, why then chris makes a good point that we tend to Pay Attention when the violence erupts. This becomes the moment that it takes over news shows that we start making the phone calls, all of this sort of thing. Why is the u. S. Necessarily such a player in this story . What is it about in that story that i told, i didnt tell much about our policy positions. Yet, we are a critical player in all of this going on. Thats absolutely right. The u. S. Is probably the one country in the world that israel feels closest to that, to the extent that any country has influence over it, the u. S. Has it. American president s feel a need often in second terms to take on middle east peace. Yep. Often to their sorrow. There havent been many successes. No. U. S. President s and u. S. Government feel the need to intervene. Theres a story of clinton on january 2nd or 3nd just before hes going out of office waiting for yasir arafat in the oval office because hes hoping that the last thing he can do in those final 15 days is to address this. Which is an incredible miscalculation because israelis were calculating on a new government of bill clinton being replaced. No. Its also something that domestic constituencies drive u. S. President s to participate in. But it doesnt just come from that. I mean, it really comes from a deep u. S. Involvement from the start in the creation of israel. A deep concern about wanting to help israel secure itself. But also bring about peace in the middle east. Id like to complicate this story more by bringing in a regional context. Yes, there is internal politics that drives this, theres history that drives it. Israel and hamas are dealing with a different regional context as well. Hamas had been tolerated by but not really liked by the mubarak government in israel which is in many ways the patron of palestinians in the middle east. The morsi government is more supportive of hamas. They used to be based in damascus, syria. They moved out pretty much just in time as the assad regime begins to crumble there and have found new friend in the region as they distance themselves from syria. Israel is finding a region in which it has fewer friend and hamas is in a region in which it has fewer allies. Growing arab frustration over lack of progress in the Peace Process has also driven countries in the region to hamas as well. This is where i wanted you to weigh in. In a post arab spring dee mock rah advertising of this region, also u. S. Interests shift here. How does that new context impact what were seeing . Should the interest interest shift here and include actually take in consideration how the middle east changed radically, with this operation in gaza it shows you that israels strategy didnt change. Take into consideration whatever take place in the middle east. And egypt. They dont have mubarak to broker any deal with them. They dont have any more even the jordanian king, he cannot afford to be seen in this moment with up rising in his country as the guy who speaks to israel. They have to negotiate directly and that guy is the guy they already killed. You know, i was interviewing the head of internal secret service and he said a year ago when there was a case in the public domain, he said were negotiating with hamas today, when nathaniel said he would never negotiate with hamas, because they want i said what do you mean. Netanyahu doesnt want any political settlement with the palestinians and he will try to throw this under train whatever it will take. Hes trying to take the Public Opinion empowering hamas. Releasing 1,000 prisoners a year ago, you actually handed hamas publicity that will never end. Were going to stay on this and were going to talk about the president s chile relationship with netanyahu may impact whats happening here. Well stay on this topic when we come back. You, too oh, cloudy glasses. You didnt have to come over actually, honey, i think i did. Oh . You did . Whoa, ladies, easy. Hi. Cascade kitchen counselor. We can help avoid this with cascade complete pacs. Over time, the other premium pac can leave cloudy, hard water deposits, but cascade complete pacs help leave glasses sparkling. Shiny too bad it doesnt work on windows. Okay, im outta here. More dishwasher brands in north america recommend cascade. But when i was in an accident. 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Those who champion the cause of the palestinians should recognize that, if we see a further escalation of the situation in gaza, then the likelihood of us getting back on any kind of peace track that leads to a twostate solution is going to be pushed off way into the future. Im back with my panel talking about the escalating violence between israel and hamas and how president obama can address these issues. Chris, do you buy that . Is this moving us away from a twostate solution which the president has been clear . Heres what i would say. Sure. Yes. The hot war and people dying on both sides, i think, tends it a fundamental truth about politics, i think, its true in american and the middle east. Violence and war and fear empowers the most conservative reactionary elements in a society. Pretty much always true. That part of your brain see post 9 11 u. S. The part of your brain says my kid is going to get killed is the part of your brain is not going to be into sorts of liberal pie he at thises and deals. Whenever theres violence, thats imperilling the peace pro american policy they have done the thing that has been asked which is there havent been terrorist attacks. They have built the institutions of the palestinian state and nothing happened. From where they sit, what they have seen are increased settlement activity and no move toward peace. What are you talking about . There was no Peace Process beforehand despite the fact we were doing what you told us to do. Which is a different read from netanyahu. Listen to this and i promise ill come around. Im glad to see that most of the governments of the world dont fall into the false symmetry of equating the terrorist aggressors with their civilian victims. Of course, israel will continue to exercise this prudence and selfrestraint while defending our citizens against terrorism. I am going to get both of your responses to that. I think its really important to distinguish the west bank and gaza. I think Many American jews, many israelis believe there should be a twostate solution and one of the biggest stumbling blocks to that is increased settlement. Thats true. Its a lot more difficult to see the future in gaza when youre dealing with hamas, which has sworn continually to never recognize israel ordeal with it. Our news editor went to cairo in april. Amazing interview. Everyone should read this interview. Thank you, chris. Was able to interview abu march zuk which was extraordinary. We have to say that on the one hand fact that he sat down with the editor of a jewish newspaper was amazing. However, his position didnt change. You know what, im sorry, we need to understand now that netanyahu has been in government for seven years and before him and arab countries met two, three times. In 2006, they told israel were ready to recognize you. The only condition, please withdraw from the west bank, from the occupied territories. Were all ready, all of us together. The broker of that deal was actually King Abdullah from the saudi. They went on and they told ariel sharon before and the israeli response, no thank you, we dont want this. We want the status quo. Netanyahu himself carried the status quo building settlements. Im surprised to hear that Jewish Americans want a twostate solution. Its not its not 22 . Were not giving them anything. That will lead to empowering more and more hamas. Hamas is the winner of this war, even if you kill 8,000, 10,000, they will get out winners. Theyre the only ones trying to get a reaction out of israel. Its a bad reaction. First of all x im not speaking for the israeli government, but we have to acknowledge that they unilate l unilaterally withdrew if you are a fisherman in gaza, they control electricity, water, the space. They control everything. You know, you have tunnels that goes to egypt, hundreds of miles, go all the way to egypt and smuggle all kinds of things. These missiles, they were smuggled in the tunnels together and other things. Let me let chris when you have one government doing everything you want and you ignore them and one is in prison. You have to have a leader. The leader is there. Theres two things. Theres essentially a right wing challenge to hamas in gaza from islamic jihad, other sa laugh i groups. So theres a certain dreeg to which this war consolidates their power. Theyre firing the rockets as opposed to not enforcing a ceasefire with the israelis. Even with hamas, the outside and the inside. This goes to your fundamental point, chris. Theres a politics occurring that if we see it only as a question of the peoples, then we get we have a two flat view of what is happening in terms of the internal contestation. When you talk about gaza, right, the withdrawal from gaza, if i think the israeli perspective is we withdrew, we were rewarded with rocket fire. Thats what you hear from israelis. The other side is that floif gaza is horrible. I dont think this is a political statement. You have 1. 7 Million People living in a population squeezed into three boroughs in new york. The borders are not controlled. Only certain things get through. Because of the blockade, you have a very flourishing black market tunnel economy which essentially means that everything that comes in is contra brand. Were going to go straight to this question of both of human life questions on the ground but also sort of what the west or what sort of these american viewers start to feel about how we impact this through our own domestic politics when we come back. [ female announcer ] the humana walmartpreferred rx plan pdp gives you a low National Plan premium. So you can focus on what really matters. 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