>> i don't object to being outspent. i object to lies. i object to negative smear campaigns. and i object to things that the candidate himself refuses to support. his comments today are palpably misleading. clearly false. and politics in its worst form. >> well, newt knows all about that. but up in new hampshire this morning, mitt romney told msnbc's chuck todd that his rival better learn to take the heat. >> i know that the speaker would like to say, look, we shouldn't have any negativity. look, if you can't handle the heat in this little kitchen, the heat that is going to come from obama's hell's kitchen will be a heck of a lot hotter. we have to show that we as a republican party and as a candidate, that we can stand up to the barrage that will come from the obama world. >> did you hear that? mitt romney just dropped the h-e-l-l-hockey sticks. and poor newt, he guess he wishes romney would put his oven mitts back on. guess what else. the little sioux chef in the corner is beating them both. ron paul up top with 28%. gingrich falling to second. romney now in third. folks, this goose is far from cooked. let's bring in our panel right now. democratic strategist julian epstein in miami and in washington, republican strategist sherry jacobyist. good afternoon to both of you. >> the very latest polling has ron paul running away from both romney and gingrich in iowa. but given that few expected romney romney to win iowa, isn't this in effect the next best thing for him? >> well, i think it is probably relatively good news for mitt romney because it puts some distance between him and newt gingrich. but ron paul is never going to be a republican nominee. and i think that his supporters would, if they don't get ron paul, they would vote for barack obama which means they have no business operating in a republican primary. if they support him being a spoiler running as a third party candidate. so also you have to remember the caucus voters are very small percentage of republican voters in iowa. so it is a strange situation. it makes it difficult. but in no way, shape or form shows that ron paul is a threat in materials of the nomination but he is a threat in material of being a spoiler. >> you've repeatedly made the point that newt gingrich has more baggage than the airlines. now your brilliant phraseology is being used in a romney ad. take a look at this. >> do you know what makes barack obama happy? newt gingrich's baggage. newt has more baggage than the airlines. >> how do you react to newt now playing the victim and crying about all these horrible ads? i thought it was newt gingrich who was the originator of bringing poison into politics. >> yeah, well, at thanksgiving time we talked about him as a stuffed bird. i think at christmas time what we want to say is these are the ghosts of christmas past for newt. whether it was kissy face with nancy pelosi, whether it was the cry baby antics when he couldn't get off air force one with president clinton from the front door. the fact that everybody who worked closely with him in the leadership when he was speaker now pretty much detests him. i think the one ghost that is really going to cook this bird is the dishonesty issue. i'm not talking about how he spun the fannie mae/freddie mac issue. he claims to have laid the ground work for the major budget deals in the '90s that led to surpluses and economic growth. there were three budget deals as you remember. i hope reporters start to dig on this. three budget deals. 'knee 93, '95, '97. in '95, gingrich tried to shut down the congress. he lost that fight. in '97, the final deal, that's when gingrich was talking about letting medicare and medicaid wither on the vine. every sim report showed that clinton won that as well. so the three deals that gave us prosperity in the 1990s and which led to record surpluses were all fights that gingrich lost and clinton won. >> it never would have happened without a republican led congress sfwhx the press pulls that string -- >> there is a problem though, isn't there? with the great historian. he is something of a revisionist on just about everything, isn't he? >> no, he's not, martin. and i think that just saying it, having the of two you say it over and over again doesn't make it so. >> sorry, it's not me just saying that. >> we never would have had balanced budgets or welfare reform had it been been for a republican majority congress in the '90s. it was newt gingrich that brought us that. in many of the cases we had to have bill clinton kicking and screaming and coming to the table. then he took credit for it because he had the big mega phone. i was there. i remember it. i'm wondering why my party wasn't doing a better job taking credit for these surpluses. it was because bill clinton was a master at taking that big mega phone and standing on the stage and taking credit. it never would have happened without the republican congress led by newt gingrich. >> according to sherry, bill clinton had nothing to do with any of this. >> it's silly. and i don't think anybody really takes that history that seriously. '93, not a single republican vote. that led to surpluses. '95, everybody knows newt tried to shut down the government and he lost that fight. he went after medicaid and medicare. remember clinton's famous speech. save social security first. the fact of the matter is that newt gingrich is such a revisionary historian that he doesn't even see that the major issues that occurred in the 1990s in materials of setting the budget are budgetary house in order, getting economic prosperity going, getting us back into surpluses. he lost all those major fights. it is not just me. these are republicans. there is a reason the senior republicans and the leadership are publicly saying they not only dislike him but many are saying they detest him. this isn't an argument. this is historical fact. >> let's agree to disagree on the history. but now bringing things forward to what's happening in washington, the candidates are still trying to stay above all of this. romney romney would hardly touch it this morning. newt gingrich, he is throwing everyone under the bus. here's what he said earlier today. >> obama is so inept as a president and the congress is so dysfunctional as an institute. we are lurching from failure to failure to failure in a way that i think the american people find very, very disheartening. >> i'm sorry, but isn't this the man who let the government shut down completely for something like 23 days? >> i guess i don't know what your point is. we're addressing what's happening now. >> my point is this. that newt gingrich said just now that congress is so dysfunctional as an institution that we're lurminging from failure to failure. what i'm asking you, does that not sound a little bit rich coming from a man who single handedly shut down the government? >> what i would say is that i would disagree with him somewhat on that point. >> you would. schlep. >> i think congress is work have the way it is supposed to. there was some missed communication between mitch mcconnell and john boehner. however, the house is a little bit unruly. it is supposed to be that way. the fact is, they won't pass a bill that the senate wanted. whether senate democrats or senate republicans. they have to go to conference. now republicans because they didn't have this big unified voice themselves didn't get the message out there. i don't think it is unreasonable. i think the public will realize that. to expect congress to stay in a conference. that's not unreasonable at all. our founders designed it this way so that the senate could be aloof and arrogant. they have to get reelected every six years and it is supposed to be the house that's very connected to their constituents. >> i have to get to you comment though on the richness of newt gingrich condemning the congress. please. >> it is the pot calling the kettle black. newt doesn't see the bigger picture here. don't take my word for it. every poll has shown obama has won this debate. they think that the house republicans are letting a tax cut expire is absolutely unacceptable. the senate republicans, it is not democrats. senate republicans are saying that as far as the house goes, the inmates are in charge of the asyl asylum. we don't need family and friends to give us gifts when we have republicans handing us these huge christmas gifts the way they are. thank you, republicans. >> cheri, the "washington post" -- the "washington post" is running -- cheri, the "washington post" is running a poll. it shows that 94% think that john boehner is to blame for the impasse. only 6% blame the president. clearly the president, according to this poll at least, he is beginning to win on this. isn't he? >> until he takes off for his $4 million vacation so he can get in touch with his inner 1%. then he might lose it. i think that this fight is not over. and republicans have lost the message because they weren't speaking with this huge unified voice. it is like herding cats. this is one time whenner they aren't just going to answer to their leadership. if they did, they would be accused of just falling in line and doing what john boehner ordered them to do. so this is the way the institution works. we're watching the sausage be made. they have to come to conference. it is not unreasonable to expect a small group of republicans and democrats from the house and senate to get together and hammer out an agreement over the next few days. they can do that. and it is -- >> that's all -- >> cheri -- >> it's all inside baseball. the big picture. >> to stay here and work it out? >> if i can finish my point. it is inside baseball. the big picture is the public overwhelmingly and the senate republicans blame the house republicans for letting the pay roll tax holiday expire because they want to pursue special interests riders on this legislation. >> julian epstein and cheri, i wish we had so much more time. but as you know, the 160 million americans wait with baited breath. thanks so much for joining us. next, even john mccain has seen enough of boehner. >> it is harming the republican party. it is harming the view, if it is possible any more of the american people about congress. 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because at one motel, speaker boehner appears to agree with mitch mcconnell that a deal can be arranged with harry reid. the next minute he appears to have a second head or a second face. and he is going and with these extremists within the congress. who is this man? who is the speaker? >> look. just look at the clip that you showed at the outset of this interview. steny hoyer, the minority whip was trying on the floor today as the session opened to simply introduce the senate bill so that we could take it up and pass it. and they wouldn't even let him speak. the republican speaker pro temperature pointed by speaker boehner walk off. wouldn't even acknowledge there was a member asking for floor time. trying to introduce a bill to fight for the middle class. they clearly showed the callous indifference to the middle class today. and then over the last day or so, to add insult to injury, mitt romney, one of the leading candidates for president, refuses to even say whether or not he thinks that the republicans in the house are doing the right thing. where is the leadership? this is a guy running for president. >> you know with romney romney his mind will change over the next 24 hours. >> still, if you're running for president. >> let's talk about what chuck schumer pointed out. he said something interesting to rachel maddow. the committee put together by speaker boehner. take a listen to this. >> of the eight members of this conference committee, the sham conference committee that speaker boehner appointed, five have issued statements against any pay roll tax cut. >> this is a ludicrous sham. five have already made up their minds on the issue. and there is no one else at the table. >> it's a total sham. the house republicans have opposed a pay roll tax cut extension all year. they have had all year to bring the bill up. try to make sure we can extend it and not allow this 11th hour down to the wire nail biter to occur for the 160 million working families that are going to have a thousand dollars come out of their paycheck if we don't take up this bill. we need to do what our leader nancy pelosi and the democratic caucus did when she sent the letter to speaker boehner urging him to call the house back into session so that we can take up the senate bill which passed 89-10. senator dean heller from nevada has said the house republicans are doing the wrong thing. senator snow has said the same thing. >> scott brown. >> senator scott brown said the same thing. senator richard lugar from indiana. these are all conservative republicans who say that we need to pass that two-month extension so that we can sit down and negotiate and make sure that we don't put 160 million americans in jeopardy. >> we'll speak to one of the happened picked gang of eight for their story. stay with us. we'll have much more ahead. 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