Cannon made regarding the maralago search. She told d. O. J. She would not honor the request to get access to the 100 classified documents so it could continue its investigation. Which it says has National Security implications. The court does not find it appropriate to accept the governments conclusions on these important and disputed issues without further review by a neutral third party. And that there are ongoing factual and legal disputes. She also cited media links as part of her basis for rejecting d. O. J. s request. Now if youre asking, with the ongoing and factual legal disputes, we will discuss that. A Special Master was appointed, Raymond Dearie, a former chief judge of the Eastern District of new york and the only candidate that the sides agreed on. Who is he . And why would both sides want him . And joins me is Julie Ainsley who is covering the Justice Department, National Reporter for the washington post, carol leonig, executive ron Line Director for the new yorker, david road, and all msnbc contributors. So julia, when you read through the decision, from judge cannon, she makes a lot of statements like you cant, that basically say i cant entirely trust d. O. J. , when it says these documents are classified and i cant entirely Truss Treasure Trust d. O. J. When it says there are National Security issues at play and oh, by the way im worried about media leaks. Walk through this decision and how the dorj might respond. Well, we do expect them to respond today, with very likely that we will soon see an appeal to the 11th circuit basically going above this district judge, saying they need an Emergency Stay on that order. Her order, as you pointed out, goes through all of the reasons that she doesnt trust the Justice Department, to handle these materials. And she thinks that Raymond Dearie, the neutral third party, that she has now appointed is the man to go through these documents and decide what is attorneyclient privilege, what might fall under Executive Privilege, although it is hard to see what if any that would fall into, and to see what exactly should stay in the hands of the government. Now this comes at point in the case where the fbi filterer team has already gone through pages and pages of documents, taking them almost a month to do. And hand it over to investigators who also have a separate intelligence Damage Assessment that judge cannon has allowed to keep going. But basically, the Justice Department has said thats not enough to just have the assessment of damage to our intelligence. You cant split the baby here. We have people working on both teams and we have an ongoing investigation. To stop this now, when theyre cultivating witnesses, sources trying to get to the bottom of what is in the documents but low it was handled which is a very sweet piece of this, to see what National Security implications this may have, they are really going to put a Chilling Effect on this investigation. And shes given Raymond Dearie until november 30th. So thats over two months, to hit the pause button, on what theyre able to do, and go through, in these assessments. David, i think its really important that, and really dangerous, to label people trump judges or obama judges or clinton judges or bush judges, the Justice Department is supposed to be above all that, but when you read a decision like this, its lard hard not to worry about the motivation. Am i wrong about that . No, i dont think youre wrong but i really want to blame donald trump for this, and this is, im concerned that this is, this shows the impact hes had on the judiciary. All of the tweets, all of the talk of obama judges, he is the one who started this. Hes the one who started the idea of locking up your political opponents by saying lock her up. And so im afraid that judge cannon is somehow afraid of offending donald trump, and ruling against him. She just goes out of her way, basically to punt this decision to judge dearie. She is a judge, she should be a neutral third party themselves. So thats what is so, what worries me, and more broadly, for the American Public, and in a positive note, half, about half of the 80 judges who rejected Donald Trumps claim that the 2020 election was stolen were republican appointed. Many of them were trump appointed. The Judicial Branch stood up to his attempted coup. So judge dearie was appointed by ronald reagan, a fair judge, a great reputation, so i think the system works, i think dearie will do the right thing, but its just a really sort of sad moment i think for the judiciary. Lets talk about who dearie is and i want to go to you on that, carolyn, and this is the one person who the trump team ability d. O. J. Team agreed on, walk us who he is and the open question is how do they find somebody that they both agree on . Well, you know, hes a denizen of new york, so President Trump has a predilection for that and may have had some interactions with him, i dont mean anything inappropriate but may have run into the person through the Eastern District of new york where donald trump had a lot of business interests, and development. But judge dearies reputation is really completely top notch. Adoubledouble plusplus in the bond market. And what is interesting about it, he served on the fisa court. For those of you viewers who dont know, the foreign sejs surveillance court, it makes secret decisions with nobody looking and all ex parte, based on prosecutors presentation, about whether or not the secret surveillance, potential spies, potential suspected terrorists. And this kind of judge is chosen ever so carefully by the u. S. Supreme court Chief Justice normally. Theyre recommended by their peers. For their care. Their rigor. I dont know if this is a word, kay but their cerebrality, but thats the word that fits. And i think one of the dangers that david pointed out well is that the impression is left that judge cannon is in the tank for judge, forgive me, donald trump, there is no way that judge dearie is going to be seen that way. But the real problem is, the stall of the investigation, and the stall of the National Security prosecutors ability to assess, along with intel sources, and intel officials, are there people we need to pull out of the field . Are there secret operations and methods and Human Sources as alleged in some of governments filings that are now, you know, compromised . That we now have to basically moth ball or retrieve from their foreign assignments . And stopping this midway, and deciding that you dont trust the government about what is classified, strikes me as kind of bizarre. The business of The Department of justice, and the National Security position thats running in operation made a probable cause showing to a federal judge that they were likely to find classified information when they searched maralago in august, and guess what . They were right. The probable cause was on the money. And a federal judge ruled that. So this finding that she doesnt trust them on that score is odd. How much more authority does she have as this goes on, paul . She declared herself the sole arbiter, and any challenges to dearies decision. And im trying to understand this. Does that mean any objection to dearies recommendations will come back to her and she will be the one to be able to decide it and thats the way it will be . What is de novo mean . De novo means it is her position. So the Special Master will be a recommendation to judge cannon, and shell take it from there. The decision she made is so unorthodox, i think shes got to be worried about getting reversed on appeal, so she did throw the Justice Department a couple of bones. She said that the Special Master can adjust her order after he rfbs the reviews the documents and the prosecutors cant present the seized materials to the grand jury or ask witnesses about them, but they can investigate how these materials were stored. And of course, The Departments position is thats not good enough for an urgent National Security investigation, and thats why it is appealing that aspect of the judges decision. So it goes to the 11th circuit. Correct me if im wrong on that. And how long might it take to get decided, paul . As long as the 11th circuit must take. Again, i hope that the judge understands the National Security implications. Katy, weve learned that there were folders marked classified, 50, that were empty. What happened to those materials . Again, thats got to be the highest priority. Of course there is a concern that the 11th Circuit Consists primarily of judges who were appointed by donald trump, but as weve heard, just because trump appointed a judge doesnt mean that she or he doesnt believe in the rule of law. David, what about judge cannon said, that you need to maintain at least the appearance of fairness here. And this is a special case. This is a unique case. It is against a former president of the United States who has been railing against the justice system. Is there any merit to that . You do want to appear fair. You want people to believe in our judicial system. But whats strange is that shes basically arguing that donald trump gets, you know, extra treatment, compared to another american, because hes a former president. And i believe that donald trump, and hes been doing there for years, but he is running id say a campaign again to try to discredit the judiciary. Hes kind of mocked obama judges. When judges ruled against him, he dismissed them. He talked in one of the new revelations is that he somehow wanted congress to pass a bill to get rid of, you know, a group of Appeals Court judges, which just is improper, but these are the tactics used by authoritarian leaders. Victor orban would sideline and overrule judges that were against him in hungary. And when you look at the 2020 election, he is trying to discredit the Judicial Branch to americans, and thats very dangerous. Used to have a lot of trust in the American Public and that trust has gone down remarkably. Carol, when she talks about the ongoing fact uable disputes here, it appears she is talking about the classified documents and whether theyre classified and the government has put forth a lot of information about the Classification Levels that they found there, including some of the most sensitive documents that the government says it has, and your paper has been reporting about information regarding the Nuclear Capabilities of a foreign country. The trump teem has said that he declassified the documents but the trump team lass not offered any proof of that. So can you decipher what exactly she is saying in terms of a dispute when one side is not offering the evidence . Well, you have to really, you asked a good set of questions and i want to take one at a time, one is trump and one is detrump. And donald trump said on the other day, i declassified all of this, and in Court Filings where lawyers are much more serious about what you claim in a court filing, or claim with your name in any court proceeding, you can be punished for misleading or lying in those settings, lose your bar license, those lawyers for the former president have said some of this stuff may not currently be classified, may not be currently classified, i remember when i read that, and i kept waiting for some element or example, and none were provided, and no evidence was provided. As for the dispute, it is kind of like in the air about whether or not things are classified. How can you distrust the photographs of what all high level National Security officials recognize right off the bat about an orange border, which is the key code for top secret secure compartmented information. How can that be fabricated . The other thing again, i would just go back to is, another judge has already found probable cause that this is what they would find, and then they found it. There has been no really substantial debate or argument made by team trump in court, in the filings, where it matters, that this stuff is not classified. Now on the Executive Privilege, katy, also really interesting, because most of the records the government has been seeking have been initially at least, when the National Archives was Begging Trump and his lawyers to turn over the records so they wouldnt have to make a referral to the fbi, before they basically got shown the door, when they were asking for these records, they were saying these are president ial records, theyre not your property, and the response that donald trump gave to his aides was, you know, theyre mine. So Executive Privilege . I can understand why people are concerned about. That but The Department of justice is ang Executive Branch that often helps president s sort out what is Executive Privilege. The Previous Department of justice helped donald trump sort out what was covered by Executive Privilege. So it is being in the Executive Branchs hands, it doesnt strike me as a massive catastrophe. Carol leonig, thank you very much for walking us through that so clearly. David road, paul butler and julia ainsley, thank you so much for starring us off. Still ahead 11,000 Asylum Seekers were bussed to new york city from texas. The backlash the gop effort to make a political point on immigration. And 24 hours in line. A much different type of story here. What its like to pull an allnighter to wait for the queen. Plus, the little boy who read her letter and the Marmalade Sandwiches that filled the city. The most memorable moments in a week of mourning for Queen Elizabeth. En elizetabh. You see, son, with a e elbow grease, you can do just about anything. 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