>> donald trump convicted of these crimes. >> -- be able to make a commitment, the same justice esteemed that was -- >> there's a difference between you and me. >> i'm not a professional politician, that's the difference -- >> i was actually giving pardons when i was governor of indiana, usually involved a finding of guilt and contrition by the individual that has been convicted. >> joining us now is our? colleague and friend jen psaki, who served as white house press secretary under president biden. she's now the host of inside with jen psaki. jen, i have to ask you, if you think we are bunch of pikers up here, if you -- vivek ramaswamy took up most of the oxygen in the room, he didn't necessarily make people like him and, in fact, the palpable disdain and maybe even loathing of all his fellow debate participants might have sort of, i don't know, stained the water a little bit in terms of how people are going to think about him coming out of this. >> first of all, no one on that table is a piker. so, let me start there. i want to say, look, it depends on who you are talking about when you say people. because republican primary voters, i would guess, watch