saying i went to him on this debunked ukraine theory and i tried to disavow him of it. it really does underscore, the people that testify that described his mind as poisoned. it does sort of describe a totally contaminated universe of people who are immune from facts. >> also, the president himself imp sui am sure you could make a case he probably spends more time watching fox than talking with tom bosser. >> it goes to show you it's not so much about facts as it is about the messenger. and so you trust donald trump to fight for you. or you trust fox news. or you trust your pastor. whoever it is. in this case, it's definitely fox news, right? but so it's -- it's not about the facts and i think for the democrats and not just dem kratds bkrat krats but anybody who cares about the rule of law and the constitution at this point. the question is, how do you fight that? there are some historical lessons we can look at but that's a trick yes question the democrats have yet to address. >> all right. we have to sneak in our very last break. we'll be right back. last break