look, at the time we were worried about this, as you were saying, drug deal and the like. so the evidence here is really suggestive of the real problem, and new reporting this week in "the washington post" suggests that other people who we haven't even heard from yet were all trying to come up with a justification, like chief of staff mulvaney when the whistle-blower allegations happened they tried to almost backdate and try and come up post hoc with a rationalization kind of when the president did when he'd pick someone and it turned out to be wrong they would just edit that out, reverse the tape, do something else to make it look like he knew all along the right answer. they are trying to do that here. i don't think it's going to work. >> one of the most stunning things, jeremy, is that with some white house scandals you try to figure out how high up it went, what did the president know and when did he know it. one of the things that came through, really most dramatically, from gordon sondland's testimony, was that