senate, i've got bill barr at the justice department, and as long as i've got those things, i can act basically with impunity. >> i think, though, what the president has done, what he's finally been caught doing, because we don't know that he hasn't been doing this all along, is to really ensnare his top human shields in this. i mean, the whistle-blower names bill barr and rudy as the president's accomplices in this wrongdoing. we know from jeanne's reporting that mike pompeo was on the call, so mike pompeo either thought there was nothing wrong with eight requests to investigate hunter biden, or he'd seen something worse and i'm not sure -- i think both make him an even more important witness to be responsive to subpoenas. >> it's interesting, the thug culture. if you probably -- saw a tape of bill barr 10, 15 years ago, saw a tape of mike pompeo 10, 15 years ago, different. it's amazing that transformation that happens in trump's orbit, and to your point, to your point earlier, i do not think the invincibility translates down.