can you think of a cultural footprint of this today, where the south gets sort of fetishized? >> grades second through fifth, we used to go every year to the destry plantation. >> and what does that tour include? >> it included a tour of the plantation. they also had a little show put on. people dressed up and stuff. and they sang songs, played music. it was like -- it was almost like a little party. >> are the tours in any way engaging enslavement? >> they don't really talk about the slavery part. you want to have a good time. i used to look forward to going to the plantation. it was a big deal. >> i mean, can we even think about these plantations as spaces of violence? we think about things like confederate monuments or symbols and flags, all of these remembrances are in white visions. those are renewals of white