remove members of the gas company's advisory board and replace them with other candidates, including a former campaign donor. joining me now, one of the reporters on this story, desmond butler and julia yaffe. desmond, let me begin with you. great piece of reporting. what did we learn about what giuliani and his associates were up to from a business state department -- state department in ukraine? >> what we did learn is that giuliani was pushing for a removal of people at the national gas company at the very time he was also, you know, trying to keep -- keep them -- to get them to investigate biden. >> right. but my understanding is that the reporting indicated there was