Transcripts For MSNBC All In With Chris Hayes 20131105 : com

Well, we here at all in can help. Heres our viewers guide to watching obama care coverage. When you see a report about someone being dropped from their insurance and not able to afford a replacement policy youve got millions of people being kicked off their plan. Katherine says she found a plan on the Health Insurance marketplace that would cost them 178 a month, which she still considers a stretch for their budget. The question you should be asking is, does the person in this report qualify for subsidies on the newly created Health Exchange . Someone like deborah cavalaro. Id be paying more for the Exchange Plans that i am currently paying by a wide margin. The report did not mention that deborah qualifies for a hefty federal premium subsidy as reported later by the l. A. Times. If you are watching a report that doesnt say whether or not the subject qualifies for subsidies, the story is incomplete. Next, when you watch a report about someone losing insurance they liked for tens of thousands are being notified their Insurance Plan is being canceled. That includes 56yearold diane barrett. Last month, she received a letter from Blue Cross Blue Shield informing her that as of january 2014, she would lose her current plan. She pays 54 a month. The new plan shes being offered would run 591 a month. These are people that love their plan, they want to keep their plan, and theyre not able to get a plan. You should be asking yourself, just what kind of policy is this . Does it cover the things you would want insurance to cover . Does it cover hospitalization or doctors visits or prescriptions, or is the insurance being dropped insurance in name only, also known as a junk policy . If the report doesnt say, youre not getting the whole story. Next, and this is important, you will see story after story featuring a letter from an Insurance Company bearing bad news. Letters in the mail alerting people they or their doctors are being dropped by their Insurance Company. Individual policyholders getting letters from their Insurance Companies. Letters are hitting mailboxes. This is the letter florida blue customers are receiving in the mail thats basically telling them, due to the Affordable Care act, their health plans will be canceled. While watching these reports, you should be asking, is the reporter taking the Insurance Company at face value . Today, dylan scott at talking points memo reports that across the country, Insurance Companies have sent misleading letters to consumers, trying to lock them into the companys own, sometimes more expensive, Health Insurance. Tpm has confirmed two specific examples where companies contacted their customers and pushed them to renew their Health Coverage at a higher price than they would pay through the marketplace. And finally, when you watch these individual stories, remember, there are over a Million People in texas alone who are not getting insurance under obama care because republicans in texas blocked the medicaid expansion. There are over 700,000 people in florida, over 400,000 people in georgia who will not get coverage because they live in a state that blocked the medicaid expansion. Have you heard their stories . Do you know their name . Just because they didnt get a letter doesnt mean they arent getting screwed. Joining me now is dylan scott who reported that great piece for talking points memo and Nancy Metcalf, Senior Editor at Consumer Reports, where she covers health care reform. Dylan, ill start with you. Great piece of reporting, and one of the things i found amazing is the way in which the letter from the Insurance Company announcing the cancellation of coverage is designed to essentially very quickly and slyly roll someone over into a much more expensive plan without actually communicating what their options are. Exactly. I mean, there are two problems here as far as consumer advocates and state regulators are concerned, and that is, the letters from insurers are leaving out two critical pieces of information. One, that people have the option to go to the marketplace and shop for insurance, both from these insurers and from other insurers. And two, that if they take these kind of default options that these insurers are presenting in the letters, theyre not going to be able to take advantage of the Financial Assistance that obama care has to offer. So, for example, the woman that we reported on today in washington, the difference between what her insurer tried to funnel her into and what she was able to find on the marketplace was the difference between night and day. Outside of the marketplace, her company would have put her in a plan that costs more than 1,000 a month, had a more than 6,000 deductible. But inside the exchange, she was able to find a plan with a 250 deductible that cost her 80 a month after the obama cares Financial Assistance was applied. Wait a second, you are saying that her current insurer sent her a letter and said, well, were canceling your current plan, but comparable plan, 1,000 bucks a month. When she actually goes to the exchange, shops around, she finds something that when all in after the subsidies, shes paying 80 as opposed to 1,000 a month . Exactly. And i think what is riling up consumer advocates and state regulators is that the plan that she got from her insurer said if you like this plan, which is the most comparable plan, we can offer you under obama care compared to what you had before, just do nothing. Dont worry about it. Youll be covered. Yeah, thats like the old record of the month club move, right . Its like, dont do anything. Well just bill you. Do not worry about it. Nancy, is this an isolated incident or are you seeing this from your perch at Consumer Reports as a kind of widespread practice right now . Ive seen i was looking at a bunch of letters today, and theyre all pretty much as dylan describes. Hey, we have to cancel your plan. Obama care made us do it. Were going to give you a better plan. Its going to be really expensive, but you dont have to do anything. And somewhere way down in the letter, it will say, oh, by the way, you can go on your marketplace. I saw a letter today from missouri. It didnt even bother telling anybody where to find the market place. And i think it just the way that people are reacting to this really brings home the point that a lot of people who will benefit from this law still dont know it, and we need to do a much better job of educating them. Do you think is there any way to cash this out a little bit . I guess the question, is how will these practices change, nancy . Is it just a question of these insurers being called out on this . Are they cynically using the excuse of obama care in the letter to deflect blame so that they can kind of get away with what used to be called panic selling folks . Well, i think two things are going on. One, they really do have to get rid of these plans because theyre no longer going to be allowed to be sold or renewed after the beginning of the year, but i think the other thing is, they want to keep these people as customers. Right. One of the big deals for Insurance Companies is market share. And now that a lot more people are going to be able to get insurance, theyre nervous because they want to keep as many Healthy People in these plans as they can. And remember, most of the people who are being canceled are healthy or they wouldnt have the insurance at all. Theyre really trying to keep hold of them as customers. Dylan, you talked to some state insurance regulators who are starting to raise some red flags about this. What did you hear from them . Well, it sort of depends on the state, for starters. In the case of kentucky, the commissioner was able to levy a 65,000 fine. The company had to send out a new letter, and anybody who had committed to the misleading letter was free to shop for insurance under obama care. But, like, out in washington, technically, the insurer was following the letter of the law, so the best that the insurance commissioner could do was put out a consumer alert and try to inform people that they have other options. But in some cases, their hands are tied. In some places, they are able to take some disciplinary action, so it depends. Whats striking to me about the reporting in your piece is the woman whos the subject of that, who receives the letter in washington, donna, strikes me as quite selfpossessed and quite educated, and she essentially has to do all this Due Diligence to go out and realize shes having the wool pulled over her eyes. But you can imagine thousands and hundreds of thousands of people who are in similar circumstances not being necessarily equipped to do that. Dylan scott from talking points memo, Nancy Metcalf from Consumer Reports. Thank you so much. David axelrod, former Senior Adviser with president barack obama, now an nbc news analyst and director of the Chicago Institute of politics. David, what is your feeling about this, the coverage that the Health Care Law has gotten in the last few weeks . Well, look, some of it is selfinflicted because the website hasnt functioned properly. And you know, part of the problem here is that people havent been able to go on to the website and learn that they could get a better deal. On the other hand, many of these people arent even being informed in these letters that they have that opportunity or that its buried in the fine print, and that, you know, thats unacceptable. Thats deceptive. And i do think that, you know, there is you know, chris, youre an experienced journalist there tends to be kind of a herd mentality in coverage. Yep. And now the story is, well, the websites not working, now the letters are out there. And i have no doubt that the opponents are fanning this. I dont think this is all original reporting going on, but i dont think people are digging deep enough. I think the piece you did at the front end was a service in terms of demystifying some of this, but it is problematical. And you know, my strong feeling is that they need to get this website up and running and they need to remarket the whole program so that people will go on. And what theyll find is a very competitive marketplace, good subsidies. And lets remember, these insurers were talking about here and the market were talking about here, this small market, individual market, and the people who are being impacted by this are people who have poor insurance policies. Right. And you know, i said ive been saying throughout this period that i have a very personal perspective on this, because when i was a young person, i got insurance that i thought was adequate. I had a child when i was 26 years old. When she was 7 months old, she started having seizures, epilepsy, and my coverage had no prescription coverage, and her medications to keep her alive she had uncontrolled seizures 1,000 a month. We couldnt shift her to another insurance policy because she had a preexisting condition. Right. And i thought i had great insurance, and it was great as long as we were all healthy. So, im glad you raise that, because it seems to me when were talking about, theres the first wave of coverage, which is about the website, and i think basically, the website was not working, and that was the problem there. The second wave of coverage is deeper and its more about this, the cancellation letters. And to me it strikes me, theres two issues here. Theres the issue on the merits, which is, there are changes happening to this market that was a very broken market for some of the reasons youre saying, testifying to personally, right . Very broken market. I also participated in this very broken market at times in my life. Those changes on the policy merits are different than the other critique youre hearing from conservatives, and like you hear from mitt romney this weekend, that its fundamentally that the president misled or lied to the American People. I want you to take a listen to what mitt romney had to say this weekend. Perhaps the most important lesson the president i think failed to learn was, you have to tell the American People the truth. And when he told the American People that you could keep your Health Insurance if you wanted to keep that plan, period. He said that time and again. Right. He wasnt telling the truth. But governor on that point i think that fundamental dishonesty has really put in peril the whole foundation of his second term. Fundamental dishonesty. Whats your thought on that . First of all, i regret that governor romney felt a need to engage in that way. The campaigns a year old. Get over it. The fact of the matter is, the president went out and he said i think what he believed to be the fact and what was substantially was the fact, because 95 , 96 , whatever it was, 97 of americans are in the position where they can keep the insurance they have and theyre going to see no changes. There is this small group of people who werent grandfathered in because they got insurance after the law was signed in the individual market who bought substandard policies that dont protect them, and by the way, dont protect us, because when their coverage isnt adequate, we end up footing the bill as taxpayers, and so, you know, there is this small group there that has to be dealt with. Many of them will get better insurance for less money. Right. The issue that strikes me is the phrasing here, and the president used this phrase a lot, and it was a powerful phrase politically, which was you. It was addressing the listener. You can keep your plan, you can keep your doctor. And theres always going to be someone on the other side of that you, sitting on the other side of the Television Screen for whom that is not true. Nbc news analyst david axelrod, thank you so much. Good to be with you. Coming up a more important reason to support this legislation and popular support, its the right thing to do. All americans, regardless of what they look like where they live or who they choose to love deserve to be treated with the same respect and dignity while they earn a living. A recent study found that eight out of ten voters thought lbgt people were already protected from work sdmimsion by law. That is not true and the Republican House wants to keep it that way. [ ship horn blows ] no, no, no stop humans. One day were coming up with the theory of relativity, the next. Not so much. But thats okay. Youre covered with great ideas like optional better car replacement from Liberty Mutual insurance. Total your car, and we give you the money to buy one a model year newer. Learn about it at libertymutual. Com. Liberty mutual insurance. Responsibility. Whats your policy . Peace of mind is important when so we provide it services you bucan rely on. With centurylink as your trusted it partner, youll experience reliable uptime for the network and services you depend on. Multilayered Security Solutions keep your information safe, and secure. And responsive dedicated support meets your needs, and eases your mind. Centurylink. Your link to whats next. Fortunately for senator rand paul when you type his name into google, plus the letters p and l, this is what comes up for now, but i bet it wont be that way for long. More on the senators plagiarism problem, ahead. Avo the volkswagen sign then drive sales event is back. Which means its never been easier to get a new passat, awarded j. D. Powers most appealing midsize car, two years in a row. And right now you can drive one home for practically just your signature. Get zero due at signing, zero down, zero deposit, and zero first months payment on any new 2014 volkswagen. Hurry, this offer ends december 2nd. For details, visit vwdealer. Com today the ayes are 61, the nays are 30. Threefifths of the senate duly chosen and sworn, having voted in the affirmative, the motion is agreed to. Today was a historic day in the United States senate, where 61 senators, more than enough to break a filibuster, voted to advance the employment non discrimination act or nda, legislation that would make it illegal for employers with at least 15 workers to discriminate based on Sexual Orientation and gender identity. Right now, in 29 states in this country, your boss can in many cases fire you simply because he does not like the fact that you are gay. Thats in 2013, and that is insane. Democrats and a handful of republicans have been pushing to change this, and the senate is now poised to pass nda for the First Time Ever and throw its support behind the notion that it should be illegal to discriminate in the workplace based on sexuality just as it is illegal to discriminate based on race, religion, gender, age and disability. But on the same day the senate moved toward greater equality for lgbt americans, a spokesman announced that House Speaker john boehner would not support the law and signaled boehner will not bring it up on the house floor for a vote. Now, republicans are smart enough to realize they cant just come out and say they favor discrimination against gay people in the workplace, but it wasnt that long ago they would say just that. The new tactic is to argue that nda will increase frivolous litigation and cost american jobs. We asked boehners spokesman if that means the speaker wants to roll back civil rights protections for other groups that can now sue over discrimination. He said no. Apparently, frivolous lawsuits are only a concern when it comes to gay people. In march, the Health Insurance<\/a> marketplace that would cost them 178 a month, which she still considers a stretch for their budget. The question you should be asking is, does the person in this report qualify for subsidies on the newly created Health Exchange<\/a> . Someone like deborah cavalaro. Id be paying more for the Exchange Plans<\/a> that i am currently paying by a wide margin. The report did not mention that deborah qualifies for a hefty federal premium subsidy as reported later by the l. A. Times. If you are watching a report that doesnt say whether or not the subject qualifies for subsidies, the story is incomplete. Next, when you watch a report about someone losing insurance they liked for tens of thousands are being notified their Insurance Plan<\/a> is being canceled. That includes 56yearold diane barrett. Last month, she received a letter from Blue Cross Blue Shield<\/a> informing her that as of january 2014, she would lose her current plan. She pays 54 a month. The new plan shes being offered would run 591 a month. These are people that love their plan, they want to keep their plan, and theyre not able to get a plan. You should be asking yourself, just what kind of policy is this . Does it cover the things you would want insurance to cover . Does it cover hospitalization or doctors visits or prescriptions, or is the insurance being dropped insurance in name only, also known as a junk policy . If the report doesnt say, youre not getting the whole story. Next, and this is important, you will see story after story featuring a letter from an Insurance Company<\/a> bearing bad news. Letters in the mail alerting people they or their doctors are being dropped by their Insurance Company<\/a>. Individual policyholders getting letters from their Insurance Companies<\/a>. Letters are hitting mailboxes. This is the letter florida blue customers are receiving in the mail thats basically telling them, due to the Affordable Care<\/a> act, their health plans will be canceled. While watching these reports, you should be asking, is the reporter taking the Insurance Company<\/a> at face value . Today, dylan scott at talking points memo reports that across the country, Insurance Companies<\/a> have sent misleading letters to consumers, trying to lock them into the companys own, sometimes more expensive, Health Insurance<\/a>. Tpm has confirmed two specific examples where companies contacted their customers and pushed them to renew their Health Coverage<\/a> at a higher price than they would pay through the marketplace. And finally, when you watch these individual stories, remember, there are over a Million People<\/a> in texas alone who are not getting insurance under obama care because republicans in texas blocked the medicaid expansion. There are over 700,000 people in florida, over 400,000 people in georgia who will not get coverage because they live in a state that blocked the medicaid expansion. Have you heard their stories . Do you know their name . Just because they didnt get a letter doesnt mean they arent getting screwed. Joining me now is dylan scott who reported that great piece for talking points memo and Nancy Metcalf<\/a>, Senior Editor<\/a> at Consumer Reports<\/a>, where she covers health care reform. Dylan, ill start with you. Great piece of reporting, and one of the things i found amazing is the way in which the letter from the Insurance Company<\/a> announcing the cancellation of coverage is designed to essentially very quickly and slyly roll someone over into a much more expensive plan without actually communicating what their options are. Exactly. I mean, there are two problems here as far as consumer advocates and state regulators are concerned, and that is, the letters from insurers are leaving out two critical pieces of information. One, that people have the option to go to the marketplace and shop for insurance, both from these insurers and from other insurers. And two, that if they take these kind of default options that these insurers are presenting in the letters, theyre not going to be able to take advantage of the Financial Assistance<\/a> that obama care has to offer. So, for example, the woman that we reported on today in washington, the difference between what her insurer tried to funnel her into and what she was able to find on the marketplace was the difference between night and day. Outside of the marketplace, her company would have put her in a plan that costs more than 1,000 a month, had a more than 6,000 deductible. But inside the exchange, she was able to find a plan with a 250 deductible that cost her 80 a month after the obama cares Financial Assistance<\/a> was applied. Wait a second, you are saying that her current insurer sent her a letter and said, well, were canceling your current plan, but comparable plan, 1,000 bucks a month. When she actually goes to the exchange, shops around, she finds something that when all in after the subsidies, shes paying 80 as opposed to 1,000 a month . Exactly. And i think what is riling up consumer advocates and state regulators is that the plan that she got from her insurer said if you like this plan, which is the most comparable plan, we can offer you under obama care compared to what you had before, just do nothing. Dont worry about it. Youll be covered. Yeah, thats like the old record of the month club move, right . Its like, dont do anything. Well just bill you. Do not worry about it. Nancy, is this an isolated incident or are you seeing this from your perch at Consumer Reports<\/a> as a kind of widespread practice right now . Ive seen i was looking at a bunch of letters today, and theyre all pretty much as dylan describes. Hey, we have to cancel your plan. Obama care made us do it. Were going to give you a better plan. Its going to be really expensive, but you dont have to do anything. And somewhere way down in the letter, it will say, oh, by the way, you can go on your marketplace. I saw a letter today from missouri. It didnt even bother telling anybody where to find the market place. And i think it just the way that people are reacting to this really brings home the point that a lot of people who will benefit from this law still dont know it, and we need to do a much better job of educating them. Do you think is there any way to cash this out a little bit . I guess the question, is how will these practices change, nancy . Is it just a question of these insurers being called out on this . Are they cynically using the excuse of obama care in the letter to deflect blame so that they can kind of get away with what used to be called panic selling folks . Well, i think two things are going on. One, they really do have to get rid of these plans because theyre no longer going to be allowed to be sold or renewed after the beginning of the year, but i think the other thing is, they want to keep these people as customers. Right. One of the big deals for Insurance Companies<\/a> is market share. And now that a lot more people are going to be able to get insurance, theyre nervous because they want to keep as many Healthy People<\/a> in these plans as they can. And remember, most of the people who are being canceled are healthy or they wouldnt have the insurance at all. Theyre really trying to keep hold of them as customers. Dylan, you talked to some state insurance regulators who are starting to raise some red flags about this. What did you hear from them . Well, it sort of depends on the state, for starters. In the case of kentucky, the commissioner was able to levy a 65,000 fine. The company had to send out a new letter, and anybody who had committed to the misleading letter was free to shop for insurance under obama care. But, like, out in washington, technically, the insurer was following the letter of the law, so the best that the insurance commissioner could do was put out a consumer alert and try to inform people that they have other options. But in some cases, their hands are tied. In some places, they are able to take some disciplinary action, so it depends. Whats striking to me about the reporting in your piece is the woman whos the subject of that, who receives the letter in washington, donna, strikes me as quite selfpossessed and quite educated, and she essentially has to do all this Due Diligence<\/a> to go out and realize shes having the wool pulled over her eyes. But you can imagine thousands and hundreds of thousands of people who are in similar circumstances not being necessarily equipped to do that. Dylan scott from talking points memo, Nancy Metcalf<\/a> from Consumer Reports<\/a>. Thank you so much. David axelrod, former Senior Adviser<\/a> with president barack obama, now an nbc news analyst and director of the Chicago Institute<\/a> of politics. David, what is your feeling about this, the coverage that the Health Care Law<\/a> has gotten in the last few weeks . Well, look, some of it is selfinflicted because the website hasnt functioned properly. And you know, part of the problem here is that people havent been able to go on to the website and learn that they could get a better deal. On the other hand, many of these people arent even being informed in these letters that they have that opportunity or that its buried in the fine print, and that, you know, thats unacceptable. Thats deceptive. And i do think that, you know, there is you know, chris, youre an experienced journalist there tends to be kind of a herd mentality in coverage. Yep. And now the story is, well, the websites not working, now the letters are out there. And i have no doubt that the opponents are fanning this. I dont think this is all original reporting going on, but i dont think people are digging deep enough. I think the piece you did at the front end was a service in terms of demystifying some of this, but it is problematical. And you know, my strong feeling is that they need to get this website up and running and they need to remarket the whole program so that people will go on. And what theyll find is a very competitive marketplace, good subsidies. And lets remember, these insurers were talking about here and the market were talking about here, this small market, individual market, and the people who are being impacted by this are people who have poor insurance policies. Right. And you know, i said ive been saying throughout this period that i have a very personal perspective on this, because when i was a young person, i got insurance that i thought was adequate. I had a child when i was 26 years old. When she was 7 months old, she started having seizures, epilepsy, and my coverage had no prescription coverage, and her medications to keep her alive she had uncontrolled seizures 1,000 a month. We couldnt shift her to another insurance policy because she had a preexisting condition. Right. And i thought i had great insurance, and it was great as long as we were all healthy. So, im glad you raise that, because it seems to me when were talking about, theres the first wave of coverage, which is about the website, and i think basically, the website was not working, and that was the problem there. The second wave of coverage is deeper and its more about this, the cancellation letters. And to me it strikes me, theres two issues here. Theres the issue on the merits, which is, there are changes happening to this market that was a very broken market for some of the reasons youre saying, testifying to personally, right . Very broken market. I also participated in this very broken market at times in my life. Those changes on the policy merits are different than the other critique youre hearing from conservatives, and like you hear from mitt romney this weekend, that its fundamentally that the president misled or lied to the American People<\/a>. I want you to take a listen to what mitt romney had to say this weekend. Perhaps the most important lesson the president i think failed to learn was, you have to tell the American People<\/a> the truth. And when he told the American People<\/a> that you could keep your Health Insurance<\/a> if you wanted to keep that plan, period. He said that time and again. Right. He wasnt telling the truth. But governor on that point i think that fundamental dishonesty has really put in peril the whole foundation of his second term. Fundamental dishonesty. Whats your thought on that . First of all, i regret that governor romney felt a need to engage in that way. The campaigns a year old. Get over it. The fact of the matter is, the president went out and he said i think what he believed to be the fact and what was substantially was the fact, because 95 , 96 , whatever it was, 97 of americans are in the position where they can keep the insurance they have and theyre going to see no changes. There is this small group of people who werent grandfathered in because they got insurance after the law was signed in the individual market who bought substandard policies that dont protect them, and by the way, dont protect us, because when their coverage isnt adequate, we end up footing the bill as taxpayers, and so, you know, there is this small group there that has to be dealt with. Many of them will get better insurance for less money. Right. The issue that strikes me is the phrasing here, and the president used this phrase a lot, and it was a powerful phrase politically, which was you. It was addressing the listener. You can keep your plan, you can keep your doctor. And theres always going to be someone on the other side of that you, sitting on the other side of the Television Screen<\/a> for whom that is not true. Nbc news analyst david axelrod, thank you so much. Good to be with you. Coming up a more important reason to support this legislation and popular support, its the right thing to do. All americans, regardless of what they look like where they live or who they choose to love deserve to be treated with the same respect and dignity while they earn a living. A recent study found that eight out of ten voters thought lbgt people were already protected from work sdmimsion by law. That is not true and the Republican House<\/a> wants to keep it that way. [ ship horn blows ] no, no, no stop humans. One day were coming up with the theory of relativity, the next. Not so much. But thats okay. Youre covered with great ideas like optional better car replacement from Liberty Mutual<\/a> insurance. Total your car, and we give you the money to buy one a model year newer. Learn about it at libertymutual. Com. Liberty mutual insurance. Responsibility. Whats your policy . Peace of mind is important when so we provide it services you bucan rely on. With centurylink as your trusted it partner, youll experience reliable uptime for the network and services you depend on. Multilayered Security Solutions<\/a> keep your information safe, and secure. And responsive dedicated support meets your needs, and eases your mind. Centurylink. Your link to whats next. Fortunately for senator rand paul when you type his name into google, plus the letters p and l, this is what comes up for now, but i bet it wont be that way for long. More on the senators plagiarism problem, ahead. Avo the volkswagen sign then drive sales event is back. Which means its never been easier to get a new passat, awarded j. D. Powers most appealing midsize car, two years in a row. And right now you can drive one home for practically just your signature. Get zero due at signing, zero down, zero deposit, and zero first months payment on any new 2014 volkswagen. Hurry, this offer ends december 2nd. For details, visit vwdealer. Com today the ayes are 61, the nays are 30. Threefifths of the senate duly chosen and sworn, having voted in the affirmative, the motion is agreed to. Today was a historic day in the United States<\/a> senate, where 61 senators, more than enough to break a filibuster, voted to advance the employment non discrimination act or nda, legislation that would make it illegal for employers with at least 15 workers to discriminate based on Sexual Orientation<\/a> and gender identity. Right now, in 29 states in this country, your boss can in many cases fire you simply because he does not like the fact that you are gay. Thats in 2013, and that is insane. Democrats and a handful of republicans have been pushing to change this, and the senate is now poised to pass nda for the First Time Ever<\/a> and throw its support behind the notion that it should be illegal to discriminate in the workplace based on sexuality just as it is illegal to discriminate based on race, religion, gender, age and disability. But on the same day the senate moved toward greater equality for lgbt americans, a spokesman announced that House Speaker<\/a> john boehner would not support the law and signaled boehner will not bring it up on the house floor for a vote. Now, republicans are smart enough to realize they cant just come out and say they favor discrimination against gay people in the workplace, but it wasnt that long ago they would say just that. The new tactic is to argue that nda will increase frivolous litigation and cost american jobs. We asked boehners spokesman if that means the speaker wants to roll back civil rights protections for other groups that can now sue over discrimination. He said no. Apparently, frivolous lawsuits are only a concern when it comes to gay people. In march, the National Republican<\/a> committee under Reince Priebus<\/a> said if they want to win the election we must change our tone, especially on certain social issues that are turning off young voters. It would be hard to find a republican strategist who would disagree, saying the gop should be the party of intolerance against bay people, but particularly House Republicans<\/a> cant stop taking stances that alienate large swaths of the population, they did it on immigration, on the shutdown and now again. They cant help themselves. Michael steele, msnbc contributor and former chairman of the rnc. If you got in a room with six or ten strategists who are trying to plot a political path forward for the gop post 2012, i think theres three things that you wouldnt want to its not the hill youd want to die on. Right. If youre the Republican Party<\/a>. The shutdown, which was disastrous. Absolutely. Right. I think you dont want to be seen as the party that kills comprehensive immigration reform. True. And i think you dont want to be the party thats seen as sticking up, as we see today, sticking up for essentially the right to discriminate against gay people in the workplace. And yet, we see the Senate Passing<\/a> all three of those things, right . Clean cr, comprehensive immigration reform, and today it comes out of the senate, breaking the filibuster. The house, though, we just got nothing. I will give you two of those hills, not the third. I think in terms of the first two, absolutely, because youre saying the shutdown and immigration. The shutdown and immigration. I think that the political ramifications of that are long term, particularly when you see for hispanics, for example, you know, 50,000 hispanics turn 15 every month. Thats a big number after a while. I think on this other hill, this third hill on nda and its progeny, and it will be, i think, other federal legislation as well as state legislation in this regard. The party tends to look at that as something that its more socially oriented, its going to be more communitybased, and therefore, theres no need for this broad swath of federal regulation or legislation. But doesnt it which is inconsistent when you look at our history in terms of civil rights legislation that we promoted from the 13th, 14th amendment, et cetera. So, im a little confused. Do you yourself, michael steele, favor nda . I would vote for it, yes. You would vote for it. I would support it, yeah. But you think theyre not going to see political backlash for killing it. Right. See, i disagree for the following reason. I agree it wont be the same as the backlash they faced for immigration reform, but i think there is a deep branding problem around tolerance, around openness, around the accessiblity and cultural infinity, particularly generationally. That was the Reince Priebus<\/a> line coming out of the big postmortem in 2012, and i think so, you think there will be a youth push in a sense. There is a case to be made, if you go to your median voter at age 30 or 35 and say, you know, the government right now, you can be fired for being gay, and do you think thats a good idea . Overwhelmingly, theyre going to say no. First off, youve got to get that message to that medium voter. Yes. And so, whos going to deliver that message . How does it get delivered through the system . And keep in mind ill tell you well, keep in mind, chris, that youre talking about members of the house who are dealing with a much smaller subset of the voting population in which nine out of ten heads would nod in agreement with them in not pursuing an nda agenda. Well done. Well done. And in fact, what do we have, ndas game . I actually was going to say weve avoided any enda puns, but actually, we havent. The thing i would say is, you know, that first question of whos going to message this. I mean, this was the thing that the Obama Campaign<\/a> did well, ma masterfully in 2008 and again in 2012, essentially stitching together this ascending coalition. And these steps to me, and i agree, this is not a makeorbreak issue for the gop in the long run like comprehensive immigration reform, probably not, but it speaks to the deep inability of the republican caucus, the governing institution of the Republican Party<\/a> right now, because they own part of the government, their inability to make Strategic Decisions<\/a> en masse that can respond to precisely the branding problems the party has. Ah. And thats where i think the rub will ultimately wind up. Maybe not right now, but when you get into 2014, i think individual members are going to revisit this issue in their own way. I think that, certainly, by the time we get to the president ial, this issue will have a broader platform and more voices attendant to it. So, i think this is going to be more incremental than just coming out of the box. That to me is the question, right . The 2016 republican president ial nominee, do they come out in favor of nda . Yeah. Thats a really good question. Msnbc contributor michael steele, thanks so much. Thank you. Good to see you, man. All right. All right, coming up eight months ago, i applied for the job of governor of virginia. Tonight you have hired me. Thank you. And i am so glad to be going to work with someone that every governor needs. Thats a good lawyer. Thank you for attorney general ken cuccinello. What a difference four years makes. Well preview this years governors race in virginia where its not looking so good for rightwing darling Ken Cuccinelli<\/a>. Stay with us. Asional have constipation, diarrhea, gas, bloating . Yes one Phillips Colon Health<\/a> probiotic cap each day helps defend against these digestive issues. With three strains of good bacteria. [ Phillips Lady<\/a> ] live the regular life. Phillips. [ Phillips Lady<\/a> ] live the regular life. But with less energy, moodiness, and a low sex drive,y first. I saw my doctor. A blood test showed it was low testosterone, not age. We talked about axiron. The only underarm low t treatment that can restore t levels to normal in about 2 weeks in most men. Axiron is not for use in women or anyone younger than 18 or men with prostate or breast cancer. Women especially those who are or who may become pregnant and children should avoid contact where axiron is applied as unexpected signs of puberty in children or changes in body hair or increased acne in women may occur. Report these symptoms to your doctor. Tell your doctor about all medical conditions and medications. Serious side effects could include increased risk of prostate cancer; worsening prostate symptoms; decreased sperm count; ankle, feet or body swelling; enlarged or painful breasts; problems breathing while sleeping; and blood clots in the legs. Common side effects include skin redness or irritation where applied, increased red blood cell count, headache, diarrhea, vomiting and increase in psa. Ask your doctor about axiron. Here is what wikipedia says about plagiarism. Plagiarism is the wrongful appropriation and purloining and publication of another authors language, thoughts, ideas or expressions and representation of them as ones own original work. You will notice i cited wikipedia as i read from it, and you know why . Because im not a plagiarist. I communicate to people for a Living Association<\/a> its pretty damn essential that people know when the words im saying are mine and when im quoting someone else. Something im noticing in the series of plagiarism scandals that tend to pop up from time to time in american pop culture is its hard to find examples of people who just plagiarize once, because you either are a person who cares about citing correctly and giving credit where credit is due, or youre not. Remember former the New York Times<\/a> journalist david blair, accused of deception and just making things up, snowballed into one of the biggest scandals in the papers his. It didnt take long for people to pull the thread on jason blairs work, as one the New York Times<\/a> reporter was quoted there has never been a systemic effort to lie and cheat as a reporter comparable to what jayson blair seems to have done. I think once you realize you can get away with something, once you cross over that line, you somehow have to rationalize how im a good person and i did this, so somehow, this has got to be okay. Ive got to make this okay. So, then it becomes a lot easier to do it. Republican senator rand paul of kentucky now has a jayson blair problem, as my colleague, rachel maddow, first pointed out last week. From wikipedia, ethan hawkes character assumes the character who had been iron jurd in a car accident, leaving him paralyzed. Hit it, senator. He assumes the identity of Jerome Eugene<\/a> morrow, swimming star second to none, but hes been paralyzed in a car accident. Then buzzfeed pointed on out that senator paul lifted another parts of wikipedia verb tum, this time from stand and deliver. Buzzfeed says you borrowed several lines from wikipedia for a speech in i think once again this case, the movie stand and deliver. And once again, its a disagreement on how you footnote things. And i think people footnote things different in an academic paper than they do in a public speech. Oh, you didnt see me footnoting with my hand as i made my speech . Perhaps even more damning is this latest revelation that pauls book government bullies, copied more than 1,300 words from a 2003 Heritage Foundation<\/a> study. And now words that they are removing speeches from pauls website. If the internet makes it easier to plagiarize it also makes it easier to get caught. Michael waldman is a former director of speechwriter and assistant to bill clinton, author of my fellow americans, famous speeches from George Washington<\/a> to barack obama. All right, michael, lets just say, authorship in a speech is a complicated thing. Thats right. Speeches really are a little bit different from an academic paper or anything else written down. Its an oral tradition, and the Martin Luther<\/a> kings great paration at the Lincoln Memorial<\/a> borrowed lines from different speakers. Right. But having said that, going to wikipedia and lifting things in full paragraph form probably takes it to a different level. Well, in your day, you didnt have wikipedia, so you had to go to the britannica, right and sort of copy word for word. I mean, did you do this as a speech writer . Well, no. Well, first of all, with bill clinton, he didnt really read the speeches. Right. So, even if somebody had plagiarized, and there were always when you have a deluge of facts coming in and information, you know, there can be slipups. We now know how rand pauls speechwriter wrote his term papers in college, right . Control well, multiple speech writers. I think thats part of whats weird here. When i was working for president clinton, and it was a different era before there was such a ubiquitous internet, but also it was harder to get caught. We at one point had a line from the communist manifesto accidentally went into the 1996 state of the Union Address<\/a> there is a specter haunting america all in solid melts into air, which is the same speech where he claimed the end of the era of Big Government<\/a>. [ laughter ] the era of Big Government<\/a> is over, semicolon, all that is solid melts into the air. I would have been the first speech writer deported in american history, but you know, that kind of thing happens, but you really do want to be careful, because the words that a political leader says are not just vapor, theyre policy, theyre politics, theyre supposed to be taken seriously. And the thing that is troubling here is the kind of slap dash nature of all of this, especially with the book. Theres two things that i find. Its, a, the slap dash nature, particularly the book. Thats just sloppiness or i dont even know what the motivation is, but also the reaction. I mean, the reaction, this is him reacting to jorge ramos in that interview, gives you a taste of the high dungeon were seeing from rand paul. Take a listen. Do you write your own speeches, senator, or is someone else helping you with that . A lot of people participate in writing the speeches, so theyre not really attributable to one person, but the thing is, is that if you look at any of my speeches, theres never been any indication that im trying to take credit for someone elses work. So, really, this is really about information and attacks coming from haters. Attacks from haters. There is him challenging, it seemed, amounted to a duel this weekend, which my bet is rachel will have something to say about that later this evening, but the reaction is unhinged. Well, the level of insecurity that comes through in the way hes reacting to this should really give pause. Theres almost, you know, sometimes people talk about the impost er syndrome, and its lie hes got a little bit of a cold sweat breaking out here. You know, i really think that if politicians just get handed a speech and they read it, even somebody with as distinct an ideological makeup as rand paul, theres something wrong with that. I mean, i really want the people to at least play a major role in writing their own speeches. They cant do it all, but this comes from it makes you think what kind of operation is being run here. Finally, this, joe biden famously, you know, was essentially knocked out of a president ial primary in 1988 for delivering a speech that was actually delivered by a british politician. It was about sort of a boyhood story, uncredited. The Dukakis Campaign<\/a> circulated a video of him doing it uncredited. Should rand paul go in a time machine back to 1988 and like apologize to joe biden . You know, is that what are the rules here . Whats a misdemeanor, whats a felony . Look, i do think that some of the rules are in flux because there is greater ability to look at videotapes, theres greater ability to cut and paste. Biden got in trouble in particular because it was a first person story about his coal miner ancestors and neil kinnicks coal miner ancestors, too. I think if i were rand paul, i would just say, yeah, this has been sloppy and i would make darn sure not to have it happen again. His reaction of threatening a duel and the haters as if his honor has been questioned when he has been caught redhanded. That strikes me as bizarre. Well, plus, he is seen even by democrats as something of a fresh face. Right. With a not so orthodox, heterodox mix of libertarian, drug legalization and foreign policy. But i think part of the freshness is data that hes not just the product of a committee. Right, or just, you know, stealing think tank papers and putting them in his book. Former speech writer michael waldman. Thank you. My pleasure. Well be right back. Like the last three weekends. Asthma doesnt affect my job. You missed the meeting again last week it doesnt affect my family. Your coughing woke me up again. I wish youd take me to the park. I dont use my rescue inhaler a lot. Depends on what you mean by a lot. Coping with asthma isnt controlling it. Test your level of control at asthma. Com, then talk to your doctor. There may be more you could do for your asthma. Excuse me . Glacier point . Follow me follow me keep up, keep up, keep up. Look hes right there follow me [ male announcer ] the nissan pathfinder. Wow follow me [ male announcer ] nissan. Innovation that excites. Now get a 279 per month lease on a 2014 nissan pathfinder. To tostore and essentially they just get sold something. We provide the exact individualization that your body needs. 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Love, love is strange just another way we put members first. Because we dont have shareholders. Join the nation. Baby. Nationwide is on your side coming up, theres a lot to look forward to tomorrow night, results from three big races that will say a lot about the wretched state of the Republican Party<\/a>. We will preview them ahead. First, the three awesomest things on the internet today, beginning with 26. 2 miles of triumph. Congratulations to everyone who ran in the new york city marathon, which returned after being cancer yellled last year hurricane sandy. And spectators showed their creativity and encouragement with signs, signs cheering on random strangers, there was no time for walkin, a classic, one promising an extra boost of power to across the finish line, and of course, no new york event is complete without a healthy dose of sarcasm. But it wasnt only spectators having fun. As new York Magazine<\/a> pointed out, plenty of runners were still in the halloween spirit. Heres a banana costume, another is elmo, captain america crossing the finish line and one is wearing the costume of all in producer cary fox. Wait a minute, that is cary fox, who finished in 4 01 and outpaced banana guy, captain america and elmo. That steady, steady performance from mr. Fox is almost certainly the result of seeing this ins operational sign along the sidelines. Congrats, cary. The second awesomest thing on the internet today, a power surge north of the border. This mysterious video was taken from inside a house in quebec, canada. What is lurking around the bend . The clover field monster . The Northern Lights<\/a> . Nobody, this. [ bleep ] oh, my god. Oh, my god. That is not cool. We beg to differ. That was way cool the website io9 says the fireball was a result of a highimpotence electrical arcing fault. Sure. We just know its so cool to look at, we can disregard the fact that the camera is held vertically. Stop that, everyone, seriously thirdly, everyones a critic. Jeff bezos is the subject of jeff bezos and the age of amazon, and youll find a onestar review by mckenzie bezos, slamming the book. The wall street journal confirmed this harsh critic was, indeed, jeff bezoss wife, mckenzie, meaning it joins ours list of the favorite reviews ever, including this one for a socalled ufo detector. One star is too much for this product. I dont know if this was a scam or isnt working. Im still getting abducted on a regular basis. And then how to avoid huge ships. I bought it as a companion to captain trimmers other excellent titles, how to avoid a train and how to avoid the empire state building. After reading them, i havent been hit by anything bigger tan a diesel bus. Customer erin swenson ordered shoes from us online but they didnt fit. Customers not happy, im not happy. Sales go down, im not happy. Merch comes back, im not happy. Use ups. They make returns easy. Unhappy customer becomes happy customer. Then, repeat customer. Easy returns, im happy. 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There are republican candidates on the ballot in three big races tomorrow in three quite different elect rates, but their fates say a lot about the political moment. In virginia, the attorney general, Ken Cuccinelli<\/a>, the pro transvaginal ultrasound tea party candidate, is limping his way towards an embarrassing defeat in a state that is reliably republican at the state house level, where the current governor, Bob Mcdonnell<\/a>, won handily three years ago. In new york city, which hasnt elected a democrat in 20 years, republican candidate jim loada is about to get trounced most likely with loyalists referring to 1950 charges of communism against bill de blasio. And in new jersey, governor Chris Christie<\/a> is a study in contrast, particularly compared to Ken Cuccinelli<\/a>. Christie appears to be waltzing into an easy reelection, having successfully mastered the atmospherics, if not the substance, of going after the tea party strain of his own party. Heres christies sermon to his own faithful yesterday. Folks dont care if you agree with them on everything, because let me tell you, if youre looking for the candidate you agree with 100 of the time, then i want you to do something for me tonight, go home and look in the mirror. Youre the only person you agree with 100 of the time. But sometimes we make political candidates feel like thats what you want, like you want us to agree with you 100 of the time or you wont vote for us. Thats why we have the political system we have in washington now, because we have people who have become convinced that they have to be 100 percenters. Joining me now, msnbc contributor goldie taylor, josh barrel, politics editor at Business Insider<\/a> and richard kim, executive editor at thenation. Com. Josh, you wrote about that speech and i thought it was a fascinating study in contrast. David wilde did a great piece about the last days of the Ken Cuccinelli<\/a> campaign and a little color in his report was that the person before cuccinelli updated the crowd on the latest benghazi stuff, and thats like the perfect difference. Heres that christie sermon to his own faithful i thought was an interesting moment. And that speech was in toms river, new jersey, which is, if you can call anything a republican stronghold in new jersey, thats it. Christie won that county 21 in 2009, and hes going there and telling these people, look, we have to compromise with democrats. When i spoke to people in the crowd at that rally, they agreed with that. They repeatedly said that the things he liked about christie was his record of bipartisan achievement. And i think the the national level, people tend to look at this, especially people from the left, and say this is just spin and really hes another republican like everybody else. Yes, correct, go on. But in new jersey, youve had politics for four years with a lot of achievements between christie and the democratcontrolled legislature. They did a reform of Public Employee<\/a> pensions and benefits, a bipartisan reform, four budgets in a fairly non acrimoniousway, including the last time. The democratic candidate was up sett set that democrats in the Legislature Everything<\/a> youre saying is why the current tea Party Domination<\/a> of washington creates a counternarrative about bipartisanship being beautiful and wonderful thats completely bankrupt as well, which i would like to talk about right after we take this quick break. Today. I put in the hours and built a strong reputation in the industry. I set goals and worked hard to meet them. Ive made my success happen. So when it comes to my investments, im supposed to just hand it over to a broker and back away . Thats not gonna happen. 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Post shredded wheat is made with only one ingredient one hundred percent whole grain wheat, with no added sugar or salt. Try adding fruit for more Health Benefits<\/a> and more taste in your bowl. Its the ideal way to start your heart healthy day. Try post shredded wheat. This has been medifacts for post shredded wheat. This is the first election in america since the full impact of obama care has been felt. This is the first chance that people have in this country to speak clearly at the ballot box about the impact that this law is having on their lives and on our economy. And this race is a very clear choice between a strong supporter of it and the first attorney general in america who stood up against it. Thats marco rubio in virginia making the case the virginia elections a referendum on obama care, which i dont think the republicans necessarily want to do. Im here with goldie taylor, josh and richard kim. Josh made the argument about Chris Christie<\/a> and democrats working together, and thats done wonders for christies image, but democrats i think might regret how close they work with him. I think they will regret it. I dont think theres that much difference between Chris Christie<\/a> and Tea Party People<\/a> like rand paul or ted cruz. He has moved to the right on gun control, abortion, aausterity. Hes pretty much a maximalist when it comes to what hes done to unions. The difference is situational, right . Hes actually had to govern something as an executive, so i would put him in the category of john kasich of ohio, jan brewer, who have for example expanded medicaid. But on the fundamental question of the size and power of government, i think hes right there with them. I also had to point out one thing. He got into a fight with a teacher, he yelled at per. Ill say that again. Goldie, go ahead. There are a couple things about this. Number one, it is, typically 12 months, 18 months out before a president ial election or any election. You have to road test your messages. It is curious that we are far enough out and hes got far enough of a lead over his opponent to be road testing messages right now. Hes road testing the compromise moderate message but ive got to tell you, if he runs this message to oklahoma, to alabama, to mississippi, to georgia, that jalopy will not get out of the dealership before it breaks down, because then theyre looking, go you know, what are you saying to us . And so, thats the kind of language theyre looking for. So, yeah, hes had to govern places, but the grassroots activists across the country who drive the gop today, even driving the gop financially today, driving the tea party and the evangelical wings of the party today, those are the people who will decide that gop primary. So, not only does he have the need to come out to the right on some of these issues, but he moved further to the right on some others. So, we dont know the Chris Christie<\/a> that were going to know in 2016 just yet. Heres why i think hes actually a very strong candidate in 2016. What he intends to do out of this election is win big, maybe by 20, 25 points. Cuccinelli will have a solid loss in virginia. The narrative is going to be exactly. I am the one who knows how to win. And hes been saying this in his speeches. Pea says republicans in the other 49 states will be looking to new jersey to see how to win, and hes going to go to these republicans and say you need to change in order to win. The republican pace is very good at resisting that message, but the question, how long can they go on getting beaten up and losing and continue to resist it . The other thing is the establishment candidate always wins the republican primaries for president and they said this about mitt romney about john mccain, hes too moderate to win, hes a rhino. They get beat up in the primaries. But i think Chris Christie<\/a>s banking on a Strong Enough<\/a> personal appeal and people intuitively trust him. Ive found out going around new jersey yesterday and today, the first thing people talk about in the christie rallies is not about his stands on the issues, but that he says something and hell do it. That will allow him in the primaries not to pander as much because people at least have an intuitive idea to trust him. I think on the optics hes tried to do this moderate and reach across both sides of the aisle. I think when it comes down to the issues, there will be problems hell face from his base and from moderates. His base will look at his abortion and gun control record, theyre going to look at, you know. And then from the moderates, those things are also going to present problems. The other thing i think youre right about the dynamic. The cuccinelli, what looks likes going to happen with cuccinelli tomorrow really helps him because its a lesson, how to lose an election. Its not important for Chris Christie<\/a>. The people christie has his eyes on are rand paul and ted cruz. Those are the people he has to contrast winners but rand paul is coming through rand paul and marco rubio are coming through virginia and he will be able to yoke the rest of them to cuccinelli. And this cuccinelli, this is an electoral disaster in the making. Yeah, yeah. In what should be a winnable state. But nobody in the Republican Base<\/a>, and gosh, i know them well, nobody in the Republican Base<\/a> is going to say, you know, that cuccinelli lost because of our principles. They dont say that. They dont learn that lesson. That is so true. Youre already seeing and he is, hes been massively outspent by terry mcauliffe. Every conservative writer i read is saying thats whats going it happen. And they wont say its because of the platform, theyre going to say it was cuccinelli. Theyll blame the campaign, blame the slickster that is terry mcauliffe. Theyre not going to blame republican principles or their stance on abortion or their harsh things about womens reproductive rights. Theyre not going to blame their plank about smaller government. Theyre not going to blame shutting down the government. Theyre going to blame cuccinelli. Cuccinelli has managed to turn abortion, access to Birth Control<\/a> and reproductive choice and Womens Health<\/a> services into a wedge issue favoring democrats in the state of virginia. Absolutely. Its a pretty remarkable accomplishment. Thats an achievement. Its like through the culture war looking glass. But so much of this is tone. Cuccinelli is actually not that much more conservative than Bob Mcdonnell<\/a> who solidly won four years ago, but mcdonnell comes off as a business conservative suburban guy, where Ken Cuccinelli<\/a> feels like the bible like a culture warrior. And prolife. He has a tone problem, too, though. I dont think he does. He can be conciliatory, but also jabs his finger in peoples faces and calls them names. People like that people in new jersey like that. New jerseys a state that spends more than 19,000 per pupil on education, 70 more than the national average, so Teachers Union<\/a> is popular but also does quite well. The thing that was missing today, he wanted to cut a lot more from that budget and a judge stopped him because he found it a violation of the civil rights of poor kids in new jersey. So, he says youre getting as much money as you want. 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