embodies the antithesis of most of their religious teachings. how has he been able to drill down into this and capture this audience? >> it is kind of stunning. i think some of the answer is that we clearly -- and i say we as the evangelical christian community, lacked deep roots in our faith. we lacked turning to god when we got scared or trusting in god as opposed to trusting in ed man in scripture talks over and over again about choosing to a trust the lord when we have difficulties or grievances. too many of us have decided to put our hope and trust in a man. for some. not everybody. there are some that they came out to be messy. they talk about their salvation