move ever closer to their homes. so what does this battle mean for the people of mosul itself, and for the region as a whole? that's what we will be talking about with three people who are following events there very closely. it is a pleasure to welcome amir musawy, an iraqi journalist based in berlin. he says a military victory over i.s. in mosul means the possibility of a fresh start for iraq. daniel gerlach is the founder and editor in chief of "zen ith," a magazine about the islamic world, and he says that whoever wants to conquer mosul should rumor -- renumber how it fell into i.s. hands in the first place, through political failure. finally, a pleasure to welcome alan posener, a political commentator for the berlin daily die welt. he believes i.s. will soon be history, but what happens next? if the west leaves the region to itself, sunni rage will create an even more brutal successor. amir musawy, as i hear it you will be leaving within a few hours in order to go to iraq and a company and report on this offensive as an embedded journalist in the special forces unit known as the "golden division." what is the mood amongst the people fighting there? amir: well, when we ask the people and the officers there on the ground what they are expecting in this battlefield, is this battlefield d the same s tikrit, or ramadi or they say it is, totally different because the city, it is bigger than the other cities. i.s. got enough time to, almost more than two years, to prepare for this assault. bombs, massnds -- destruction weapons, chemical weapons. they are expecting everything. but at thehe end of the day, thy are really insisting to put an end to that regime inside mosul. melinda: what about when you talk to family and friends in iraq? do they truly see this as endgame for i.s.? amir: m military, yes. they see this as the end of the journey of i.s. inside of iraq, gain -- in the military. but i'm not really sure it could be the end of their ideology inside the region and also in iraq. i think we should not forget, there is a generation that lived under the regime of i.s., and they got all this s ideology. for could be very hard task the iraqi government. melinda: daniel gerlach, experts predict there will be house to house fighting of the bitterest sort. they say i.s. has set up booby-traps in mosul, and it could well use civilians as human shields. what do you think? will the troops seeking to liberate the city nonetheless be seen by the people who lived under i.s. command for two years as liberators? daniel: i don't think so. if thisrtheless, mimilitary operation turns out o be successful, and i think it will be successful, it is just a question of what material and human loss will come with it, then people will accept it. because i don't think any of the iraqi army,pt the will be staying and will be able to occupy the city and keep control over it for a long time. also whenecome clear you are following the political debate in the last couple of months. but i think the fight on the ground, in the streets, is going to be brutal, and there's a lot of discussion about these paramilitary militias that should stay out of the city. but in fact, these paramilitary militias, please shia militias everybody is going ballistic about, are the ones who can do the job on the ground. like it or not, they fight the same way the islamic state fighters are fighting. relentless, brutal, highly motivated, and thesese are the oneses who have done t the job o far. so i don't really think that the iraqi central government can fight daesh without them, because this fight is not about kicking daesh out of the city, kicking the islamic state out of the city. it is about annihilating this organization. and certainly the jihadi fighters were part of it, some of them will die, many of them will die, but others will merge into society and organize a resistance, terror attacks, as we have seen them before 2014. melinda: alan posener why mosul and why now? alan: why mosul? because it is basically iraq's aleppo. it is the mercantile city, a huge city. whoever controls mosul controls the region, whether it be called iraq or the syrian empire or the eastern part of the ottoman empire, this was always the prize, the change between the north, the kurdish part, and the shiite part in the southeast and the sunni part in the south. so this holds iraq together. and therefore, anyone with an ambition to control the whole of iraq needs that city. so that's why -- if you ask why now, i think the time is right. they have been moving, the iraqis have been moving should -- slowly but surely up the river tigris toward mosul, and they have to do it. it's a question of credibility, isn't it? if you say you are going to do whatever daesh, isil, you want to call them, you have to act on your promise, and now is the time. melinda: there is of course an echo chamber on the internet that says it has everything to do with the u.s. election, which is now entering its final stage. is there anything to such theories? alan: i don't see what it could have to do with the election. government israqi saying it will not be over until the end of the year. and the election is in two weeks. so what does this have to do, one with the other? it is just time. this has been an offensive that has been going on for months, you might almost say for a year now, and now they have reached mosul. that's it. it's not the americans. it's not the election. those are conspiracy serious. daniel: i think it has to do with the situation inside baghdad, between baghdad and erbil. the agreement between erbil, president bararzani. melinda: the kurdish -- amir: yes, and the iraqi prime minister. two weeks before the beginning of operation mosul. that made it possible that iraqi army has an access to the from the side of the kurdish area.. this is, all these months we hearard about the preparation of the mosul operation. ,he iraqi government tried to around mosul there is a sunni tribe. these tribes should play thee main role to get control of the city after liberating. and you cannot do the job without this tribe, without the backing of the sunni tribes in the region. i have to disagree on this point, relative to u.s. election or influence by the schedule of the u.s. election. i agree it is not the main reason, but i think there is an element here. those political decisions, the campaign against mosul has been announced for a long time and has been on for a long time, but i'm very sure the americans told those who take the decision in iraq, not only in the political but also in the military chain of command, if you do it now, or we cannot help you. air force, which is having a lot of sorties, bombing the so-called islamic state in mosul, can operate. but in this very critical time between a u.s. president leaving the white house and a new president coming in, this is a very critical time, and usually the u.s. government cannot take any major military decisions. so i think it was important, not for political reasons to make the obama administration look better or make them look igaged, or in command, but think it was a very tactical decision to do it now. melinda: i want to take a closer look at the u.s. role in this fight. president obama referred to the battle for mosul as a major step forward and a milestone. why does mosul matter so much? >> mosul lies on the banks of the tigris riverer, at the centr of a region that is rich in petroleum reserves. ter saddamam hussein was overththrown in 2003, many of hs supporters fled to mosul. later, they joined forces with the islamic state organization to launch attacks against the iraqi government. a force of less than 1000 islamic state soldiers occupied mosul in june 2014, after iraqi troops threw down their weapons and fled. leadereeks later, i.s.'s announced the creation of a worldwide caliphate and called on muslims to come to iraq and syria and wage jihad. has haden, mosul tremendous symbolic value for islamic state. president obama took pains in a statement at the beginning of this week to emphasize that it is the iraqi government that is calling the shots. but experts say up toto half of the u.s.s. forces in iraq q are involveded in this battle, in se way. so how independent is the iraqi government really, and is the u.s. leading the whole thing, at least from behind? amir: leading or not leading is not a question. in fact, i think the question is how much the american investing in this operation. when we go back to mr. daniel gerlach, what he said. what would happen if this operation were not finished quickly, as they planned? this could cause problems for thee clinton in n this time. i think americansns playing a mn role in militatary operations -- they are giving backup from the air. they are supporting iraqi and so on. this, they are trying to balance the political situation with iran's role inside iraq. americans, i think, play the main role to bring all the shia, sunnis,, in this, and they invest a lot. melinda: alan posener, you say the u.s. election doesn't really play a role here, but what if things turned really ugly in this assault? what if we saw massive civilian casualties, knowing that u.s. forces are involved. could that not have an impact on public opinion in the u.s., and indeed make things rather difficult for the successor to president obama? alan: yes, it could. which is why i think that this is not determined by electoral politics. this is simple determined by necessity. the fact is, what is going on here, there is a major war, across the whole of this area, between sunni and shia. and the shia, starting from iran, going around to their allies in syria and lebanon, mr. bella h --ezbollah, has been pushing the sunnis out of the area for years now. the new thing by the obama administration was the attempt, by pivoting towards iran, to place america not on one side of this issue. whereas the russians have gone fully behind iran, mr. assad, and hezbollah. so a lot more depends on this, but a lot more than electoral politics. it's a question of, will america be seen in the new middle east as an honest broker or as someone who is on the side of one or the other? melinda: daniel gerlach, your opening statement reminded us that we often have short memories. the fact is, u.s. counterterrorism partnerships in the past have not always had a good record, precisely because of the complexity of sectarian ethnic politics in this region. mosul, as you point out, would not be in i.s. hands now if the u.s. had not failed in training iraqi troops. afghanistan, the taliban have made steady gains against american trained military forces. why should things go any different in iraq? daniel: i don't think the failure of the amemericans w wat to sufficiently train iraqi troops, nor do i think the big failure was not to stay on after they withdrew major parts of their troops. i think it is much more complex than this. i also don't believe, i see the sunni-shia antagonism, but i think that is a very simplest of you to say there is a war -- simplistic view to say there is a war going on in the region between sunni and shia and that america does not take a side. it is more competition. the question is, why did mosul fall into the hands of the so-called islamic state? asul was the pride of iraq, strategically important place, economically successful, the home base of the iraqi army, and you would not find any more nationalist spirit in iraq than in mosul. then, after the american, british, whatever coalition invasion of iraq, the destruction of the saddam hussein regime and his whole security apparatus, mosul became the disenfranchised part of iraq. partly because of sectarian strife, but that's not the only reason. mosul was in the hands of al qaeda. al qaeda elements were active in mosul long before. having mafia kind of control over the civilian population. the iraqi state did not act against that. i know that officials told me previous to 2014, to when they officially declared the caliphate, they said, i am never going to mosul. we as s state officials never go to mosul. this is an uncontrollable area, and it has been like this for years before. so for many people in mosul, not only the narrative of the disenfranchised sunnis, and those who support their interests, was successful, but there was at least one mafia organization, the so-called islamic state, which took over control, instead of many mafia organizations all trying to get their share, fighting each other, blackmailing each other. so this is a logical conclusion. in the absence of a state, in the absence of basic protection of the civilians, every authority is better than no authority, and this is why they could create this homebase long before 2014, and this is why taking over mosul was not conquering mosul, but somebody handed over the keys. melinda: amir musawy, you told us in your opening statement this could be a fresh start. the fact is, iraq has had a couple opportunities at fresh starts, and has not made the most out of them. long, long the u.s. has been saying, this is a political problem and it needs a political solution from within, and that solution has not come to pass in the past. why should it now? amir: i think we should go back to 2003, when the americans imposed a political system in iraq. i i think they did not put a a t of effort to establish a political atmosphere to accepting others. they just said simply, the shia have the majority in the country, they go to an election, and they are going to get control of the government in iraq, and this is wrong. this is the same point wrong that we see now in turkey. 51% with erdogan, 49% against him, and the end erdogan makes what he wants. this is not democracy. democracy should take care of the other opinion, to give him the feeling that he is a first-class member of society, and not different classes. i talk with the people, fromm mosul, in 2013. they said, i feel myself as a second-class member in this society. i get a long time at the checkpoint, and so on. this has to do with the political system. at t the end of the day, now the government inside of iraq, this is a big mistake happening in the past and it should not happen in the future, especially inside mosul, where the majority of the people are sunni, close to the kurdish area, and the kurdish area, the ambition of the kurdish, they would like to suppoporting an area possible indndependence of thehe kukurds. at the end of the day, you should put a political system, give the rights for all people in equal way. melinda: some people, alan posener, looking at this very motley coalition of the the new. forces that start we may see is a partitioning of iraq. this could be the beginning of that. do you think that is right? alan: i don't think it is feasible. all this talk of partitioning. we had that back after the first world war, and look what happened. since time immemorial, this part of the world has been a mix of nationalities and creeds and what have you. the whole fertile crescent, from baghdad right over to lebanon. and the most you can hope for is to impose some kind of state order within the imperfect boundaries of so-called nationstates, which are not real nationstates, and hope that people will be able to manage their affairs. but you know, there's no way you can draw a border within iraq, which will create neat kurdish areas, neat sunni area, neat shia area. that's not going to happen. plus, turkey would never allow a kurdish state to become reality in the north. and then we should not want it, either. melinda: where do you see the political situation developing after a liberation of mosul? one author on your website has written that the various members of the anti-i.s. coalition fear each other more than they fear the jihadists. daniel: and it's even more complex than this. i recently talked to a young researcher who came back from studying the fragmentation and the chain of command inside of the kurdish troops. she says, you have people from different parties, different command structures, inside this kurdish bloc, and they disagree with each other. they believe, my enemy is fighting on my left side or my right side. so even in these units, you can monolithic,ocs as but even in these there is strife and a lot of hatred. and that's also very historical. happening in the iraq he army -- iraqi army. everyone has some account to settle. but i don't think we are dealing with a partition, necessarily, but a very interesting phenomenon in state theory. that is what i have previouslyly called the non-declared state, which is happening in the north of iraq. it might be e happening in the north of syria. which is, somebody takes power, somebody takes on the duty of performing, of providing some kind of protection, some kind of public services, to the citizen. may he call it a state or not? technically he's executing autonomy over a certain area, and people have the feeling of living in some kind of state, because first and foremost the concern is security, and the second is health care, wealth, a job, and all these things. so the question is not, whose flag is going to fly over what city? the question is, who is going to provide what services? that will mark the new borders of the middle east, in my view. so everything's on the table. int like saying, we believe the territorial integrity of iraq or syria or whatever, that is the wrong answer. melinda: let me just very quickly, because we are almost out of time, and i do want to very briefly address two further issues of what happens after the liberation of mosul. first of all, i.s. itself. could fall back on raqqa possibly in syria. what about all the foreign fighters? some experts, including members of the e.u. commissssion, warned that a number of the foreign jihadists could wind up back here in europe. is that a serious risk, and are we prepared to handle it? amir: it is a really serious problem for the western countries, in europe, because most of these fighters will already have fled to syria already. we are talking about hundreds of raqqars going back to or other cities. we should put in mind, you defefeat an organization militarily, but not the ideological. this ideological, some people find this idea is very sexy, t o have a state as the culprit and so on. we shoululd make a lot research about this ideology, and how can we face it. melinda: finally, refugees. the u.n. humanitarian coordinator for iraqq once we could see a humanitarian catastrophe, hundreds of thousands of refugees. do you think that is a serious risk? if so, are we prepared to handle that? alan: it is not a risk. it is certainty. i think they are preparing for 400,000 refugees, and they say it could be more. but they will be dealtlt witith, they will be received and helped within iraq, within the kurdish areas especially, and i think that can happen. i don't think we should be worried -- we should care about these people, we should make sure that they get what they need. but that is secondary. melinda: daniel gerlach, your title "final blow for i.s." is it one? daniel: it is a decisive one, a critical one, but not the last battle. melinda: ok. many thanks to all of you for being here today, and thanks to all of you out there for tuning in. see you soon. ♪ ♪ ççç announcer: this is a production of china central television america. may: sustainability is in, and it's shaping trends all across the board, from agriculture to fashion and gourmet dining. this week on "full frame," a look at the tastiest, chicest, and coolest ininnovations inin sustainability. i'm may lee in los angeles. let's take it "full frame." may: so, what do you need to grow thriving crops? soil, sun, water, right? well, maybe not. what if you could grow crops with little to no water? jill farrant is a professor and research chair in the department of molecular and cell biology at the university of cape town in south africa, and she's currently leading the development of drought tolerant crops. now, they're called resurrection plants because they can survive in a drought and d then resurrect themselves when they are irrigated. further developments of these plants can help provide solutions for feeding populations in dry and arid climates around the world. farrant's research has received international praise, and in 2012 she was a recipient or the l'oreal unesco award for women in science. joining us from cape town to tell us more about the potential impact of her research is jill farrant. welcome to the show, jill. great to have you here. jill: thank you. thank you for inviting me on. may: well, jill, let's first start off with your childhood, because i know that your interest in the outdoors and plants began at a very early age, and you spent a lot of time outside. i know there's one story where you went outside once, you saw a dry plant, and then the next day it rained and it was all vibrant again. you went home and told your dad and he said that's impossible. tell me a little bit about that moment for you. jill: interesting moment, because obobviously i was a very observant child, observant because weather drove the mood in our home. my father was a farmer, and if it wasn't raining, that was a problem, 'cause the crops wouldn't be watered. if it was raining with hail, that was a problem, because then the crops would be damaged. so, being observant, i actually noticed this dead-looking plant, um, came back and saw it resurrected the nextxt daywrotote it in my 9-yearldld diary, anfoforgot ababout it, toe e honest, fofory years later. but there was one thing i--wn n i discoverered the fact that someone else had published about this many, many years later, i said, wow, i wonder if that's what i noticed, and, yes, it was. may: so, at that point, then, when you realized that there was something to this, this idea of resurrection plants, is that when you decided, all right, i'm gonna go and research this and see what this is all about and maybe it could lead to something new? jill: yeah, absolutely. the moment i got the understanding of how these plants could lose all of their water, remain in that desiccated state for years before--and still be alive enough to when water comes to resurrect and start growing within 12 hours, i knew that this was a potential solution to droughts, and wasn't aware at the time, though, to what extent drought would be happening in my country. and with africa being a rain fed agriculture, this is a crisisis for us at t the mome, so, yeah, , i'vevery lucky t thi actually s started to do t this search some 22 yearsrs ago. may: and you've kept at it. well, jill, since i'm not a scientist and most of our viewers are probably not scientists, can you explplain to us in layman's terms how a resurrection plant actually works. jill: how do they work? um, the big trick is that most living organisms go under a lot of stress if they lose water. the resurrection plants, when they first start to feel a drought, immediately perceive that somewhere down the line that it might be something that they might have to lose more water than they really want to at this point, turn on a whole lot of genes, which actually facilitate a very safe lossss of that wate, protecting membranes, protecting all sorts of things that normally fall apart when there is no water in the environment. and the nature of my research, really, is that there are other models out there that do this. most of our crops, most of our plants, produce seeds that can dry down to very low water content and yet survive and restorore germplplasm as seeds. so the phenomenon is not often seen i in most plalants in vegetativeve tissues, but it isn seededs. now, what i h have discovered is--and lots of collaborators who work with me-- is that in fact what resurrection plants do is they use those pre-existing seed genes that are already in the genome, they just switch them on in vegetative tissues when that's normally silenced in a crop. and so the whole trick, i guess i'm telling you where i think you might go for my next question, the whole trick is right now, how do resurrection plants switch on those genes in their roots and leaves? can we mimic that in a crop so that when water loss--when drought becomes severe, the plants simply dry down and wait for the next rain. may: so now that's what--that is at the heart of your research, right? because you're basically trying to create these crops that will mimic this behavior so they can survive through, really, any kind of condition and still produce and be bearing fruit, right? jill: that's exactly what we're trying to do. i know that there are people out there going, oh, how productive will this plant be if it's spending a lot of its time in the dry state? and it's a very real question that we need to answer. but the reality is that as long as there's water, this plant will pick up, start growing, and--initially, at least, a little bit faster than it would have done beforehand, almost to make up for the lost time. so in a season where there's sufficient rain, we will have absolutely the normal yield we would always have. in a season with a drought, we will still have a good year. in a season with an extended drought, we will still have a crop. it might not be fantastic. may: wow. so it can produce no matter what the conditions are, with very little water or plentiful water. that's fascinating. and also you said it doesn't take as long as the normal crop. jill: well, you know, depending on where we're trying to put this, if you're going to put it into an annual, which is a crop which will only grow for a short amount of time, in order to get a lot of seed for us to eat, um, we would--we would have to maintain that that plant can continue to grow even in a time where it would not normally be designed a normal environmental conditions. but what i'm thinking's gonna happen, certainly here, is that normal environmental conditions aren't really going to prevail for most of the time. we're going to have extended droughts, a lot of heat. these plants withstand all of that. we will also get a lot of cold and a lot of wet. and so what we're trying to do, i think, in the long term, is to get a very resistant, a resilient crop, a crop that will do well under hydrated conditions but actually won't die under the more extreme conditions. may: and, jill, you know, these days we hear so much about the issue of global warming, climate change, these extreme weather conditions that we're having, and one of them being drought. uh, the lack of water. so, if we don't try to pursue things like you're working on, what are we looking at. what's the dire future? i mean, i use that word, but i think that's probably what eveverybody figures--it could be very dire if we don't dodo something about it. jill: yeah. you know, i think what i'm potentially offering is only one of the many other solutions that really have to be evolved. there are going to be areas on our planet where it will be much more conducive to being the "bread baskets" of the world. and i guess what we must do is capitalize on those areas and this food must be shared. then in areas where you're going to have extended droughts, we're going to have to have local food security and subsistence farmers start growing the crops that are way more drought tolerant. my idea is to actually inter-crop these. to actually use cereals with protein, rich seeds, and things like that, so that the subsistence farmer has a balanced diet that comes out, over a year, with various crops that can actually grow through various seasons to be productive at the right time. may: jill, i know that the estitimates for you is that you want these crops to actually be fully functional through your experimentation in about 10 years' time. so is that realistic at this point in your research? jill: it's realistic dependent on one condition, that i get enough money to do this. and i think scientists all around the world always say, well, we just don't have enough money. we don't have enough money. um, and, of course, collaborators and myself now kind of know-- we think we know what we need to do. it's a matter of getting the money and doing it. we are writing grants and doing all sorts of things. but given the right amount of money to complete what we think we need to do, i give proof of concept 5 years, roll out by 10. may: ok. and, um, jill, in terms of what this potentially could do, uh, for world hunger and providing the proper nutrition to parts o of the world that we all know are suffering from extrememe poverty and huhunger,, is this--is this the answer? jill: as i said before, i think it's one answer. we're gonna have to be very creative in other ways of producing food, too. um, i--i'm hesitant to say that this is gonna be a great solution for all of africa. i think it's going to be a small solution, a small drop in an ocean that we really need to do a lot more with it. sorry, i'm feeling a bit--it's late at night for me. i beg your pardon, i'm stumbling a bit. may: that's ok. well, jill, let me ask you this, then. once you are through with this research, because you're saying about 5 or 10 years' time, what's going to be next for you? what's on the horizon? jill: uh, i'm one of those people who can never say no to a new challenge. one of the big things that we're going to be facing in africa--and i think worldwide, too--is soil stress. because as the soils get more dry, you get a lot of increased salinity and irons and things accumulating. so one of the things we are starting to look at is cross-talk between stresses. cross-talk between water, deficit stress drought, soil stress, because often that will go hand in hand. so, even as we speak, we are starting to look at things like that. for me, personally, um, i don't know if i'll ever retire, but my dream is to use south african plants, and we have an enormous amount of variety here, for medicinal purposes, to try and start letting people be able to grow plants that can be used for food and medicine. may: jill, you know, i'm curious. uh, some people might look at what you're doing right now, uh, with manipulating, you know, these resurrection plants and trying to figure out how they work, and the final product being sort of frankenstein creation, uh, because you're manipulating so many things. uh, is that the case? are these actually safe? jill: it's a question that everyone asks simply because the perception that genetically modified organisms or genetically modified crops are going to be "frankenfood." i feel that the discipline has been given a very bad rap, because it can be exceptionally safe. the ethical reason for what you're doing--what you're doing, using the technology for is what should the dririving the answer. um, so, yes, of course, there can be, and i think with all the concern that's around now, we're making sure that they are safe at all l levels before they're released to the public. again, long-term trials have to be done. we might be eating these things for 10 years and find that there's something crazy happens to us. i doubt it. but, you know, those are the things that we have to face every day. and some of the technology being developed, for example, to make meat, stem cell research from beef, you know. is that safe? don't know. but working on an animal seems more desirable, and if i may say, than working on a plant, in most people's eyes. i think--i really think that plants being the base of the food chain, we really need to look after our plants. may: and, jill, from the scientific community, have you gotten positive feedback? are theyey liking whatat you're doi? jill: in the main, yes. most scientists understand what i'm trying to do and how i'm trying to do it, and they applaud that. um, so, yeah, i've had very little criticism, other than people saying to me, well, you're going to make gmo foods. how is that going to affect us? may: hmm. ok. jill, you have some plants in front of you on the desk. can you tell me what you have? jill: so the very dry-looking twigs here is a resurrection plant which has gone green in 12 hours, 'cause i've put some of those twigs into water. so just to show how rapidly this happens, this plant's been--i harvested them two years ago, dry. so they are still very much alive. and it's just one of the many species i work with. this one has got a fancy name, as they all do, called myrothamnus flabellifolius, or alias the resurrection bush. um, it's got a lot of--well, most of these resurrection plants have incredible chemicals in them which protect against the various stresses they have to survive. and so a tea, why i brought this one particularly, because a herbal health tea has also been made from the leaves, which is good for stomach complaints apparently. high in anti-oxidants. may: so, jill, that's amazing. so you harvested those dry plants two years ago, but then you resurrected them within 12 hours. that's amazing. jill: absolutely. it is s amazi. i think that, to me--if anyone is interested, there's some videos on my website whehere it actualal shows you the t time lapse of t these things going fm the extremely dry state to full up and healthy within 12 hours. may: wow. that is incredible. well, jill, thank you so much for joining g us today fascinatating stuff yoyou're do. jill: you're welcome. cheers. may: well, jill's work is solving a sustainability challenge on dry land, but what about food crops from the ocean? tuna, shrimp, tilapia, and salmon are among the most popular seafood eaten around the world, but that's also been their downfall. these once plentiful species are now dwindling because of our over-consumption over the last 30 years. now, recognizing the depleting supplies, chefs around the globe are experimenting with new, lesser known types of abundant seafood, often referred to as trash fish by fishermen unable to sell them. "full frame's" mike walter takes a look at this growing trend. [sea birds calling] mike: their hunt begins before dawn. for the past week, these commercial fishing boats harvested the sea floor, searching for the best catch. today their efforts are paying off. [horn beeps] bert: i mean, today we're selling pollock for 3.50 a pound, which was unheard of 20 years ago. it was like 5 cents a pound. so the value of our fish seems to have increased the past 5 to 10 years pretty strongly. mike: for years, popular fish like atlantic cod and haddock were the staples for new england fishermen. but overfishing and environmental changes drastically reduced these fish in their nets. instead, they were catching what's called trash fish, species like redfish, pollock, and hake that only sold for pennies at the dock, earning them the nickname. that's when chefs, fishermen, and scientists came together to determine how to fill the culinary void. rauni: the fishermen would suggest a species to a chef, and the chef would s say, "oh, i d't think so. i don't find that delectable." or, you know, "that's going to break my knives," or, "that's too difficult to handle." and then the chefs would suggest a species that was also under utilized and the fishermen would say, "well, that's too far out. it's going to cost us too much money to bring in." or, "it's too difficult. we have to brine it or ice it or whatever, so we're not going to be able to be profitable." mike: eventually, they settled on the under loved fish that would work for both chef and fishermen, starting a broader trend in the u.s., using species in the kitchen that are more abundant in the sea. jen: i think the real trend is in understanding why it's in season, what's bountiful, and basically eating with the ecosystem and adapting and understanding how to work with the seafood and the species that mother nature makes available to us. mike: at the inn by the sea near portland, maine, they understand and they are adapting. you'll always find under utilized fish on the restaurant's menu at this luxury waterfront resort. steve: we incorporate it in our lunch menu every day in the form of hake tacos. we're certainly working to help, you know, promote the common men, the common fishermen, and d reay the backbone of what the econony of maine once was, especially here in southern maine along the gulf. mike: now maine's fishermen hope more diners will embrace the seafood ththey catch, , no mattr what the species or ninaname, and he ushern culina tren that will kee thfishing bos afloatnd the as harve abundant.or "full ame," thiss mike lter. may: cing up nt, trend shions wh an envonment consciencewe' be righback. may: our next guests are on a mission to return clothing manufacturing to its makers and to utilize and innovate sustainable, environmentally sound production practices. from their first biodegradable espadrilles to their bolivian alpaca sweaters and dramatic dye colors made fromom organic materials in ind, industry of all nations is creating clothing with a conscience and connecting their products with the people making them. founded by brothers patricio, juan, and fernando gerscovich in 2010, the company blends their love of design with their eye for fashion and passion for creativity. here to share more about their sustainable, ready-to-wear tale are juan and fernando gerscovich. welcome to the show. thank you u so much. fernando: thank you. juan: hi, may. may: and your other brother is missing, right? he is in miami. juan: yeah, pat is in miami. may: ok. ok. well, tell me. how did 3 brothers from argentina decide all of a sudden that they are going to go into sustainable clothing and then source it from around the world? because i think you two are trained architects, right? juan: yeah, yeah. may: so, frorom architect to clothing, how did that happen? juan: well, it happened--i think it happens--a lot of ingredients that created this formula for us to create industry of all nations. our parents--our parents are--were fashion designers in buenos aires. so we grew up in the fashion business, in a way. apart from being a--being trained architects, we be in other ways--we had a very entrepreneurial way of living and philosophy in our brains and hearts. and we've been always very curious about brands and how people consume and how people sell and buy. and--so, there was a point that as consumers, we were getting so unexcited and it was--it was, like, not making sense to us that every time we want to buy something and we would look where it was made, it was made just in--like, only in china or maybe in a--in a few countries in southeast asia. being that every country in the world produces or used to produce, but for some reason--not for some reason, because just for the reason that it was in that country it was more cost effective, people are paid less. fernando: cheaper. may: yeah, of course. yeah. juan: yeah. so, see, also, it's very--see, also it's very--every brand decided to carry all productions in every country and take it there where it's cheap, where it's more affordably made. may: mm-hmm. because companies just worried about the bottom line, right? it's--they just want to save money, and then they want to produce it really quickly to get it out. juan: yeah. may: right? juan: exactly. may: yeah. fernando: and it became--it became normal for us. let's say for the past 50 years that clothes were just made in one part of the world. and the truth is as humans, we--we're used to make things, you know, collectively. make things, buy things, use things, so that's what we realize that, hey, we need to start making things again. may: and care about what was being made, right? it's about the quality and how it's made and, you know, the people who are making it. so, obviously, your company is about trying to source those products that are actually being made by real people. juan: yeah, yeah. because, you know what, we're buying--the way they're buying, like, orphan products. people that are--product that are made by people who have no idea what they're making. one day they're making wool, it's the same company. one day making watches. there, they're making raincoats. there, they're making boots. we have no connection to what they're--to what they're making. may: oh, the connection, yeah. juan: no connection whatsoever. fernando: yeah, that's super important. that the work as a--as a basic activity that we do, it has to have meaning for us. otherwise, it's complete nonsense. may: well, that's obviously why you started this company that has such depth to it, right? let's talk about how you go back-- juan: yeah, i mean, you explain very well. no, it's like, basically, the main thing is to brining productions baback to the--to the original makers. may:y: to the makers, right. to the makers. well, , let's talk about-- juan: yeah, that''s when i it all--t-that's s how it all star. mamay: let's talk aboutut how yu find those products, right? i mean, you go all over the world to try to find these products. for instance, why did you choose bolivia to go and get these alpaca sweaters? fernando: yeah. so, talking about wool. no clothes to wear during the winter. there is--there is--bolivia, peru, this part of the world in the andes mountains, it's part of their tradition. families there, they've been breeding alpacas or llamas for generations. and it was a matter of connecting the dots, discovering them, working with them, and make their craft available for the rest of the world. and in the case of this specific project, the alpaca project in bolivia, it's a great example of the overalinindust of f al nations'ononceptit''s creaeang the deded vae ofof, s, the places he e thei-thehey e gift w with w mamateals, f f exame, o or th manufacturing techquques. w, i in is casas we work with this opoperate. there e e 1,00farmrmer they allwnwn a pce o of nd. theyllll bre theheirlpacasas and enen, thwholole cle contin f from e lalandf the alpa, , whertheyey're breeding, alththe wato the fishshed pductct, ke an alpaca sweater.nd t th'ss creangng thavalulue the w wle process from the raw material all the way to the finished product. that's a great thing that can happen and that's how our susupply chain worksks. may: so, it's full circle. juan: it's a full circle. yeah. may: like, you were saying, juan, i mean, there's a connection there with everything. juan: yeah, and that's what we aim in every product. in most of the products that we--how do you say it? most of the products that we-- fernando: approach. juan: we approach is to go and produce with the people who grow the fiber,rereed t aninima. instead , , likejustst gbbingg what they--wt t theyrow w wi their landndnd takit s somhere to produ i it. n letet's ininude those pelele apa frorom,ike, makinghehe rawatereria makinin the finish p produ. may: andt t muste grgratying for them tacactual seeee fm startoto finh whwhathey're doing r r yourompapanynsteadad of, keke, yosaidid, ey--alalof a sudden, thr r mateal i is st taken d d theyave e nodea what's s happing.g. fernando: ye. . it's s grifyingg and it's economiclyly perct becae thenenou have,ike, this whole chain of people of the community that are involved in the process. not only--not only of exporting the raw material, but the mill where theyrocess t wool, the knitte t that it the eaeatersso, , th you h he this full cilele andt'- juanyeyeah, at''s realal how all the y y fromy lilitt commitity to couount. the e y communities d d counies s ca thrive wheththey c mananufture with what th p produ frorom theilaland. may: and he'e'the e otr befit that ieally ve about at you guydo is at ther's a stainality top and issue of how sometimes clothes--oftentimes, how clothes are manufactured. terrible for the environment. really wasteful. there's no concern for anything but just getting it out and making that money and then just leaving. juan: yeah. so, that's a--that's a whole other aspect that we take in consideration as much as this conversation that we're having, no. how production needs to start being more sustaiainab. and we need--we start--we need to forget to make, like, things, like, fast and cheap for a big profit. may: because here's an example that is on your website. i watched a video of the organic dyes that are used in india. righ i it's memesmizing.g.his video, i--itasas likart-t--i was like artrkrk wating g the guys make this dyerom m ornic marial. tell me thimimportce of using tho t type dyeyes versushehe conntioionaway ofof dyeing mererial. juan: ye. . wellit a allit all--before e e indurialal revoluti----indurialal volution i thinkt was s 18 or 1870beforehat, so 'm taing about,ike, a hundred ansomethinyears ag evercloth at peoplwear in this plane they re aroun ke, a billn--a bilon-- the polation othe eartwas arnd a bilon peopl so, these biion of pple will--thworld wod dress th clothes that wh nanatully dyes. a llion pele. the industal revolion cread chical ds. so, pple, say, found a wa-clothinmaker nd a way toye verfast andery cheap. may: yh, andery dangerous, ght? juan: ich th didn'care, you knowso the plutionhat ocess wod start mang to ouplanet w not tak into consideratn becae it was ill--evestill no no, mor portant have st and che oducts. , when we-s soon as we stted instry of l nation the secd produc we're going to launch was we wanted to ma j jeansso w we started trying tfifigureut h how to make ans witht t pollingg and rting evybybody.o, that researchooook uso inindiand took ualall the, l lik magicic anwoworld naturalyeyes, wch was almost einct in dia. but that's erere--bore e instrialal revoluti, , thatas----ina wass a big clotngng andhey y ma for the pletet. sothatat's whwhwe wenthehere. , wewelland alal weind thisittle grp of m sciensts tryi to test and rearch to, le, bri, li, recrea all the. and the'veeen like dng for 20 yrs. but 20 year body gave em a chae to reappltheir techque fo e mode world. sowhen w goin conta with th, we coected ally well th our searchinand-- may: it's aming whathey do. juanyeahah, 's azing. y: it ally is. juan: figure t how to srt eing likeveryday wr for the dern world may: rht. juanwith cpletely naral dy. may:nd beautul colors. rnando: ah. and e--what are r partrs in ina, ey've been woing on f all these yes is basally to peect or tadapt the mienary teniques of dyeing wh naturadyes t e mode age whe, of cours we want to throw our clothing in the washer, dryer. may: right. fernando: and the color have to stay, and it has to washed and dried like a conventional chemical dye garment. may: yeah. fernando: so that's the big accomplishment. may: yeah, that's--that makes a difference, especially in today's society where everybody, again, wants everything quickly, everything easy, which is--leads me to my next question, which is, i think this must be the tough part for a business like yours, where we do live in a society where it's all about fast fashion, it's all about throw away, it's all about cost. how do you convince people to change their attitude to buy your product when it's not the cheapest thing, you know, on the shelf? fernando: yeah. may: you know, but it's s about education, i suppose. but has that been a big challenge? juan: yeah. it's not the cheapest, but it's also not that expensive. may: yeah. juan: for example, we e tried to work with, like, the most like reasonable margins as we can. for example, an industry t-shirt is--like, a naturally dyed industry of one nations t-shirt is like $48, may, cocomparing to a $30 chemically dyed from fast fashion brand, or maybe a chemically dyed t-shirt from a high end brand, that probably cost like 3 times more. so, very much in price. may: right, right. but let's put it this way, you can't compete with the, you know, the big chain. fernando: yeah, i know. may: $10 a t-shirt or something like that, right? fernando: because also, that's something that--those price point is something that--let's call them, it's an artificial value that fast fashion companies were in charge of creating. and the truth is that that's the problem, and people are realizing that. so-- may: do you think--do you see that change? fernando: yeah. may: do you see that that's a trend-- juan: yes, we see that. may: that's becoming more popular? juan: yeah, we see that also like in the shop. now we can see live the reaction of people when they-- may: in your new store, yeah. juan: yeah, when they encounter our products, the conversation we have is incredible, no? how people are like--some people are completely aware and they come, likeke, shopping to o us becauae they know they want to, like, have a positive effect in--with their--with their bubuy. may: right. juan: but some people don't know about it. when they hear what we say and the conversations and the information, they cannot believe what's going on, no? fernando: i mean, people that--people want to know, pepeople want to get informed. d the process of choosing or deciding to buy something, the elements that come to the table are starting to be different. it's not just about like, oh, how it looks because it's in trend. so, we're in that prococess and pepeople e asking a lot of questions and-- may: which is great, that people are starting to become more curious, because there is one statistic that i think is so alarming that most people don't know, right. to produce one ton of cotton, it takes 200 tons of water. juan: yeah. may: right? just to produce one ton. so, things like that, how do you get that information out to the general public? you know, again, i get so mad about this. people just don't care sometimes. they tune out, so it's hard. juan: yep, not only that. for some--if people knew, no, that to wear your red t-shirt that you love, because you have a red chemical color on, you're polluting everything around the manufacturing place where that t-shirt was made. may: right. jujuan: what would people say? may: and people live there. juan: yeah. may: people live in that area where it's being polluted. juan: people live there and that's--and that happens eveverywhere in the world. not only somewhere far away. companies, factories here in downtown l.a., they're like dyeing with poison because chemicals are poison and throwing the leftover-- the residual w waters right to the water streams. may: ok. so, you guys, then what do you think it will take to get this message to the masses? i mean, it's great that people are coming into your store asking questions, but these are people who are already are aware. juan: yeah. may: what about the totally unaware? what do you think needs to be done? juan: yeah, i think--i think the message and information, you know, be getting o out there little by little, and maybe not--maybe faster a little because now with social media and how--all the way from like a show like this that it's watched by millions of people, and so, messages now, they--it takes very fast to spread. may: that's correct. and, juan? or, fernando, sorry. fernando: it has become such a current issue and the problem that we're facing and the pollution environment. i guess, in every aspect of what we do, our footprint of humans in this world, it has to be considered and people are aware. it's today and everybody is talking about it. so i it's up to--it's up to us, the companies and people who are making things, to give an example and to communicate how business can be better for the world and environment, for the people, for everybody. may: and that's true. it has to make business sense, too, right? you can't just do it for charity sometimes. juan: yeah. may: sometimes, 100% charity is great, but also when it comes to a business, you have to make it work. juan: it has to. may: it has to make sense. fernando: it has to work, yes. and the process of--when you're innovating in anything, the process of making business sense, it's probably gonna be different to the type of businesses that are--that have already a formula. so, that's a process and that's--maybe the growth curve, it's slower, but it's necessary. may: as long as it's going in the right didirection. juan: yeyeah, and also is basically, we neneed to--we need to stop thinking that the only reason we need to wake up and live for is to make money. i ththink everything--i think k 's where you start. may: yeah, yeah. juan: no? i think we need to wake up and live, like, to help each other. and if you help each other well and you solve problems, well, the e money wiwl come. but the reason to make money, that shouldn't--that shouldn't--that shouldn't control it. that shouldn't be the motive of our--of our humanity anymore. may: i love that motto. thank you so much for sharing that. and, juan and fernando, thank you so much for coming in and telling us all about your business. i think it's a fantastic thing you're doing. juan: thank you so much for inviting us. may: good luck to you. and i'll come by your store. fernando: perfect. juan: yeah, thank you very much. may: well, coming up next, solar power is still a relatively new technology, but it's already being re-innovated in clever ways w with impressive results. we'll be right back. may: according to the u.s. department of energy, the demand for electricity in the united states alone will rise by a whopping 40% by 2032. now, the result in increase in carbon emissions will post economic and environmental threats. fortunately, one company seems to have come up with an innovative way to produce this much-needed power with the help of the sun. john conklin is president of solarwindow technologies, where a first ever electricity generating product is about to transform the world's windows into powerful conductors that generate electricity 50 times more efficiently than rooftop solar panenels. harnessising the sun's power using the existing surfaces of structures, we may soon see a time where skyscrapers and residential high rises offset their power needs by simply generating their own and even banking energy. joining us now from new york to tell us more about this new twist on solar energy is john conklin. john, welcome to "full frame." good to have you here. john: thank you very much. well, john, this is really, really actually very exciting stuff. the technology is pretty amazing. tell me first how your technology differs from traditional solar panels. john: well, solarwindow technologigies is a clean energy company. think of taking a piece of glass, generating electricity on that glass, and putting that electricity generating glass on tall towers and skyscrapers to offset meaningful energy that those buildings demand. that's what we do. may: ok. well, all right. there's one terminology that is sort of very scientific. so i need to ask you to explain what this means. it's called photovoltaic. is that correct? john: yes, it is. may: tell me in layman's terms what that means, because this is integral part of this technology, right? john: yes, it is. photovoltaic really has two root words. "photo," meaning light and "voltaic," meaning electricity. so what we do is we take lightht energy and generate electricity on solarwindow. may: ok. now, you say that your technology is 50% more powerful than the normal solar panel technology. why is that? how does it actually work? john: acres of glass is the best way to look at it. when we're looking at a tall tower or skyscraper, we're looking at all sides of that building. and, for example, a 50-story building has nearly 6 acres of glass. so, when we look at putting solarwindow on 6 acres of glass versus the really tiny footprint on the roof for pv or solar panels, then we have a tremendous ability to generate energy for that building, but more importantly, 6 acres of glass is a lot easier to put solarwindow on than taking up the valuable 6 acres of land that in most cities, like new york, would be very difficult. so, if you can imagine one 50-story building taking up 6 acres of land of central park, it wouldn't take very long for a few skyscrapers to use up all that beautiful space. may: right. john: so, we're using all that acres of glass, we're not using all the acres of land. may: no, you're right, john. i mean, it would be impossible to do this in a big city y because there would be no space for it. so the idea of using existing structures, that's what's so phenomenal to me. now, tell me if i'm right about this, the flat glass industry, overall, is a hundred billion dollars, is that right? john: yes, that's correct. may: so we're talking about a huge industry already that covers all of these skyscrapers around the world. and so if we should do that in the u.s. alone, i mean, what are we talking about here? what kind of business are we talking about here? john: the markrket potential is huge. not only is it a hundred billion dollar business. in the united states alone, there's over 400 million square feet of glass in commercial buildings. and that's s also in taking t to consideration the over 5 million commercial buildings in the united states alone. so when we look at the ability of one single 50-story building to offset meaningful energy for a building that currently doesn't have an option to do so, think of all those 5 million buildings that will have an option to generate their own electricity. may: i'm wondering, john, why hasn't anyone thought of this before? because, i mean, obviously, i would've never thought of this, and the average person would've never thought of this, but it's pretty amazing. you know, everybody thought about just rooftop, but the fact that you came up with the concept of covering an entire building. john: yeah. and really, solarwindow is a technology that's being developed for windows. we're not a technology that's being developed for some other application, and then, as an afterthought, let's try to put it on window glass. since its inception, the whole concept has been talall towers and skyscrapers utilizing that vast space. but more importantly, when we look at those buildings, we want to be able to maintain the beauty of a window while making it architecturally pleasing, which has--comes in our colors. those colors have tints that we can increase, make them darker, more transparency. that way, that gives us the ability to put this on a skyscraper and maintain the architectural beauty that these architects and the building developers and owners are heavily sought after. may: and that, john, actually, i think, is really crucial, isn't it, for this to work? oftentimes in the past, solar panels, people complained about them because they weren't aesthetically pleasing. they didn't look very good on a rooftop house, so people chose not to go with that. in this case, when i was watching some of the video, you can't even tell that this glass is on the building, right? john: that's key. transparency is an important factor. just imagine sitting in your office looking out the window at that beautiful city cape and just thinking of that window as that's the ordinary window that you've know all your life. it's a passive window, but now we're taking that passive window and making it generate electricity. and you can't see the electricity being generated, but you still maintain that beauty. and now that window is active, producing power for your office fixtures, for building fixtures, and other functions in the building. may: right, right. got it. that's what's, i think, is amazing about this technology. but let's s talk about cost, jo, because as i mentioned before, solar panels in the past, one of the other deterrents was that they were expensive and they wouldn't get their payback in something like 5 to 7 years. what about your technology? what's the investment and then what's the payback? john: right. based on our proprietary power and financial modeling, using data that we've received for testing our modules at the united states department of e energy, nationanal renewabe energy laboratory, we took the power from those tests, modeled it in our proprietary model and we show less than one year financial payback on a 50-story building. and the beauty of that is it's not just that economic incentive. it's got to go beyond that. first is its manufacturability. easy to manufacture, it's liquid. the other aspect of this is the cost. we need to keep the cost in such a line that it allows us to go those to those tall towers and skyscrapapers. but more importantly, it's also the environmental benefit. we're looking at 15 times the environmental benefit when compared to those same solar panels on that building, which is huge considering the importance of us controlling greenhouse gas emissions. may: well, i was just going to ask you about that, because let me just throw out some figures for you. 70% of all electricity relies on fossil fuels and 85% of u.s. greenhouse gas emissions come from those fossil fuels. so what kind of savings are we talking about when it comes to using your technology versus, you know, traditional utilities? john: that offset is tremendous and extremely important. when we're looking at greenhouse gas emissions, we can open this up a little bit, talk about carbon footprint. we can talk about the economic incentives, but when we look at it, for example, that 50-story building has the potential to offset 2.2 million miles of vehicle emissions. that's a huge number. when we look at that small rooftop space, where that pv is up on that small rooftop, that's the equivalent of about a 176,000 miles. so 2.2 mile--million miles from a vehicle is tremendous when looking at one single skyscraper. may: that's one building. so that is incredible if you multiple that by hundreds. here's a question. what about china? you know, we all know that china has a huge greenhouse gas emissions problem. the pollution is reaching crisis levels over there. so, is this something that you'd like to introduce to china? because, again, also there's tremendous number of skyscrapers in china all over that country and they continue to build more. the potential could be huge over there, right? john: our market strategy is global. we feel that this technology can be put in geographic locations to help a world cause of controlling greeeenhouse gas emissions, ultimately a affecting climate d climate change. so as we look at this technology, we see this as a global application having a positive favorable impact on greenhouse gas emissions. may: and, john, i should ask you, is this already being used or is this still being introduced to various developers just to see what the reaction is at this point? john: yeah. our launch is next year. so we're looking at the end of next year. and this launch is predicated on a couple very important prerequisites. first is some important strategic industrial partners. that's key to us. they've got the ability to hit those global markets. second is raising additional capital. we are in the process of raising capital as this interview is being conducted. but more importantly, to bring it back into perspectives. there's people like bill gates, warren buffett, elon musk of tesla. we are in great company of some of the world's most energy advocates and innovators. we're using some of the brightest minds in the development of our technology and some of the most creative minds in finance to help capitalize this technology ultimately to build solarwindow, which may be perhaps one of the greatest single innovations in clean energy history. may: i don't think that's an understatement, john, because of what i've seen and what i've heard from you. so, i bet the response from others has been the s same, excitement, thrilled that this is being introduced. john: oh, the excitement has been tremendous. and this is not just from the architects, building owners, and developer'' perspective. the excitement goes into the glass industry. keep in mind that this is one of the greatest innovations to the glass industry in over half a century. so the glass industry has just looked at this as fantastic, but we also need to look at it from the perspective of the chemical industry. our technology is chemistry. it's chemistry in the making, chemistry making electricity. so there's many industries that have brought this with great excitement and we're excited to be innovating. may: and do you think, john, that this is going to change the world in terms of the way people build, but also more importantly, the environment? john: well, we certaininly hope so. we have put tremendous effort into solarwindow. we have tremendous outreach. we truly enjoy working with some of our strategic partners in some of our discussions. and all of that is the planning for a clean energy technology like solarwindow on a global outreach to help in a global perspective. may: well, john, it was a pleasure talking to you and hearing all about your company, and the technology is pretty amazing stuff. so congratulations to you. john: thank you so much. may: all right. we'll be right back with a look at a raging debate about sustainability solutions in our food supply. may: the world's oceans, lakes, and rivers are feeling the strain of overfishing. dwindling supplies of some fish species have led to a rise in aquaculture, or the farming of fish and plants. so o what's the difference between fish and aquatic plants raised on a farm and those caught or grown in the wild? and is one really better than the other? "full frame's" mike walter dives deeper into this debate in portland, maine. mike: just before sunrise. matt: yeah. today we're harvesting. we're gonna do about a half a ton of mussels, just a little harvest today. mike: they leave the city far behind. matt moretti and his crew head out to their crops i n the casco bay, just off the coast of portland, maine. matt: we harvest year round. we're going about twice a week right now. mike: but instead of using a tractor on this 3-acre farm, they'll use their hands, slowly easing up ropes that dangle high above the ocean floor. matt: the mussels are suspended off the bottom, so there's a bunch of predators in the bottom like crabs and starfish, lobsters that love to eat mussels. mike: these are bangs island mussels. matt: bangs island mussels are--it's our brand of farm-raised mussels that we grow here in casco bay. they are started in the wild and finished by us. mike: while these farm-raised mussels are similar to those caught in the wild, there are differences. matt: there's practically no grits or pearls in the mussels, which you do find in wild mussels sometimes, but a lot more meat per mussel. so the meat inside the shell is gonna be bigger. i think it's gonna be sweeter and have better flavor. there are known pretty much throughout the nation as really high quality, excellent mussels. mike: farming seafood in a controlled setting as opposed to harvesting catch from the sea is known as aquaculture. the practice accounts for roughly half of the seafood production around ththe globe. china, by far, is s the largest producer. whe e experts say there's little taste difference between the two, and nutritionally they're very similar, there is debate over whether wild caught or farm-raised is better for the environment. when it comes to traditional fishing, the question becomes, it is sustainable or destructive? gary: the only way we' gonna have a sustainable seafood industry in the united s statess by the addition of aquaculture. it will never happen again by all wild stocks. we will a alwas rely on other countries to produce our seafood if we don't produce it ourselves. mike: former commercial fishing lobsterman gary moretti now co-owns bangs island mussels with his son matthew. gary says because the world's fish stocks are strained, the production of farm-raised seafood, like his mussels, will only increase. gary: this is a possibility of growing the highest level protein with the least impact to the environmnment, and we don't have a choice anymore. mike: but not all aquacultures are good. some have had a negative impact on the environment. in n the case f shrimp farming, its development in the 1980s destroyed widespread areas of mangrove forest and caused coastal deterioration because of waste. it's an issue u.s. aquaculture expert michael rubino, a former shrimp farmer, is concerned about. michael: we've learned a lot in the past 2 20 or 30 years about what t to do and what not to doo that we can avoid negative issues and focus on the positive. so in the u.s. now, a and in some other countries, we have what i i migt call smart aquaculture with the fishing technology where there isn't any waste and where we've got informed regulations, good regulations, that both allow the aquaculture industry to expand, but also protects our environment and allow us for healalthy oceansns. mike: exexperts say with wild fh catches stagnant across the globe and the world's growing population eating more and more seafood, expect the gap to be filled with farm-raised options. michael: but the market is so huge and the demand for seafood is so important that we neneed o complement that wild catch with responsible and sustainable aquaculture. mike: aquaculture that when carefully managed can feed billions of people and keep the world's waters healthy. for "full frame," this is mike walter. may: and that is it for this week. join the conversation with us on social media. we are cctvamerica on twitter, facebook, anand youtube. and now you can watch "full frame" on our new mobile app available worldwide on any smart phone for free. get the latest news, headlines, and connect to us on facebook, twitter, youtube, and weibo. search cctv america on your app store to download today. all of our interviews can still also be found online at cctv-america.com. and let us know what you'd like us to take full frame next. simply email us at fullframe@cctv-america.com. until then, i'm m may lee in los angeles. we'e'll see youou next time. 2 dú >> i hope you will join me for an exciting new w televisi series, aa unique inquiry into human consciciousness itselelf. in thesese programs, we are tryg to conveyy an experience, a sene of feeling it rather than just talking about it. we join our trusted guide and host phil cousineau on a most memorable episode of "global spirit."

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