Our question on quadriga, this week is, how would it is angela how wounded is Angela Merkel . To discuss that question, i am joined in the studio by three seasoned observers of german politics. Beginning with derek scally of the irish times, who says, merkel is unchallenged for now, but she could be wounded if the spd, the left party, and the greens all joined forces in a bid to oust her. Also with us is alan posener, a regular columnist with the berlin daily die welt. Alan says, nobody is challenging merkels leadership. Nobody wants her job. So why should she worry . And to get a french perspective on things, we are joined also by journalist and author pascale hugues, who comments, welcome to the club. Angela merkel is getting a rival on her right, just like all the other leaders in europe. Thank you all for those interesting comments. I would like to begin with derek scally. Lets talk about this election defeat for Angela Merkel right here in berlin just a few days ago. It is variously being described as humbling, humiliating, disastrous. Merkel herself calls it bitter. How bitter . Derek i think as a general rule for anyone watching, there is a rule of thumb for state elections in germany. There are 16 federal states. If you win in one of the federal states, you go on television at 6 00 in the evening and say, this is a signal for the federal political level, the level at which merkel is playing, and if you lose, as merkels team do, they say, this is obviously not a single for a wider political trend. The migration crisis is one of these things that works all levels of german politics. The federal level, local level, and i think that is why merkel was looking so chastened this week. This is a chastened chancellor. This is a woman who doesnt always ever really admit anything. This woman doesnt have feet of clay, she just sort of hovers over german politics. For her to come out like that was quite striking, but i think the closer you look, the more you picked apart what she actually said, she was saying that yes, this migration crisis got a little out of hand and we could have prepared, but it sounded a bit like a papal apology. If you feel something went wrong, then im sorry, but im actually i would continue to do what i did a year ago, and im going to continue doing it. What she actually said, whether or not you heard what you wanted to hear. She is slightly damaged, but she is still 50 or just under with political support, and she has been in power for 11 years. The question is whether journalists start to get tired of her face on the cover of spiegel magazine and keep hammmmering away at her, andnd whether that creates a mood among the public that somehow this woman is used up. And we could be at that moment, but she has bounced back before. Peter interesting, i noticed in one of your articles this week, you were talking about what you called the merkel must go mood in germany slowly accruing, being perceptible. Is that how you see it, pascale . The merkel must go mood . Pascale i think you have to be very cautious. A rightwing had party that suddenly shuffled the political game. Whether they are going to get into parliament whether they have to areical stuff they good enough position, but good enough to take responsibility . Open. At the moment, i would see Angela Merkel as unchallenged. Theres really no alternative on the left, no alternative within her party. The germans are not very daring. Theres always a lot of excitement before, but when they go to a very imporortant electi, and the spirits come down, it is very possible that if she wants to be reelected, that she could save her skin and be elected again. I think we have to wait. Peter Angela Merkel chastened, Angela Merkel unchallenged. What would you say for that one . Alan has to look for an adjective now. The first thing is, berlin was not a surprise. The asd got basically what they predicted. Angela merkels Party Getting less than 20 of the vote. But theyt a minute, had weak leadership. They have had that for a long time. They did not get credit for what they did. This cdu did very well within the constraints. Is, this is all about , the alternatives getting this new xenophobia, right wing populist Party Getting 14 of the party, but that was expected. They are going to get Something Like that in thehe general election in 2017. Merkel knows it, her party knows it, but everyone knows it. Peter but there is a sense that lost hers nevertheless winning touch. Five setbacks in a row. These are state elections. The point is on the state level, theleftwing opponents, democrats and the left party, with the greens, can form government. On the federal level, that is impossible. Democrats cannot and will not go with the greens. The only reason merkels chancellor because the left party exists. As long as the left party is there in parliament, she will be chancellor, unless theyre someone within her own party who says go. Pascale derek but this is one of the bizarre things, merkel has been in power since 2005, and there has been centerleft about her. This week, this is one of these things, why can the left and merkel get it together . After this election, they were sort of smoke sizzles signals and flirtations with the left. For the first time when i was talking to people, there was a sign that it was worth talking about. We have not had that before. In 2013, the social democrats said, we are kind of screwed, so we might as well considering. Now they are considering it even more. It may come to nothing, but for the first time, merkel has the majority again. Complication is the greens. They have worked for the social democrats, but merkel might like them into the government. The greens party might be the key to this after less centerleft alliance that has never gotten back behind merkel until now. Peter you are nodding. Thinking of just the image that merkel has. This is all human politics. Policy. Ant domestic policy. The economy is sliding, thee unemployment is very low. The whole spirit of the germans french compared to germany, it is so different. We are in a real crisis, and the crisis in france appears every 10 minutes. Germany is doing very well, and i think the german people know that. Not only due to merkel, but the reforms of others. We europeans, theres a lot of admiration and france, for example for Angela Merkel. Peter my sense has been that the mood of admiration that has been so palpable, has turned a little bit more towards exasperation with the chancellor. Pascale sometimes yes, but on the whole, no. You like europe to have a stable, lowkey, calm germany. Whats not perfect, but would we get if she wasnt there anymore . The sense i have i is trust and gratefulness for a leader like that in these very bumpy times. All these elements will play a role that fear as well, and actually play for her. Peter lets move on a little bit. I would like to go back to the address the much talked about that Angela Merkel gave in berlin, during which she referred to what has been her mantra throughout the refugee crisis. It,words we can do referring to the refugee crisis, and the challenges it poses. Lets listen to what she had to say. Merkel some say it is provocative. That was not my intent. I wanted to motivate people and be decisive and complementary. 7 merkel admits she has made mistakes. The past fewover years, we have not done things we could have. We have to do o a better job of integration. She expressed real emotion. If i could, i would turn the clock back many years, said that i could do a better job of working with the authorities to prepare for the situation. The events of late last summer caught us rather unprepared. And promised to do better. We must optimize our efforts in the situation, and that includes me. The chancellor needs to rebuild trust with the voters, but can she do it . Derek, real emotion. Derek yes, this is what we are dealing with every day as german correspondence, what passes for real emotion in german politics, but it works for german voters. She is not that person in private. This is the merkel that she automaton that she sends out. It has won elections, but will it win a fourth time . That is the issue. I think nobody in her party will challenge her. Im quite amused that the whole party, even her own party, say they are getting tired of her, but you asask when or why they are not challenging her, they have one year until the election. If you want to challenge, now is the time. Nobody has come out. It speaks volumes that the fresh , hehope for german politics has done much for europe, but hes going to be 75 next year. I think the party is not going to challenge her at the moment, and the question is whether or not they believe voters will go behind her. They will talk more about that and a moment. Felt then media, they emotion this week. They were saying it is real emotion, not a show of political theater. It is from the heart. Alan did they really . Peter that was my feeling. Read whate you just you want to. I dont think anyone believes Angela Merkel has any real emotions. Thats not her thing. She said i would like to turn back the clock, but who wouldnt . Peter we are being very unkind to her. We are think she is an automaton. Alan but what she said was, i would turn back the clock to last autumn, and to what she was responsible for. Greece was the main destination for refugees. Greece could not cope anymore. When greece was being trampled on by germany, they opened the floodgates. Thats what happened. And it is her fault. No one is saying that in germany, but they should say it more. This is going to be held up p in her face all over europe. People in italy saying, we are sick of austerity. We need to do something. She is facing not so silent result in europe, and that result, however, will probably strengthen her hand at home, because the germans hate paying for the italians and the greeks and the spanish. Is seen as the rock of financial austerity, and i think she has big chances in germany. One phrase in, the address Angela Merkel gave here in berlin caught my eye. It was this one, she said we are living in a postfact world where people are not necessarily interested in facts, they are just following their feelings. What is that about . Alan pascale she is a scientist and she is following the facts. You are saying she is not emotional, but we dont know that. I think that is the arrogance of journalists. What it shows is she is not prophetic. I come from a country where this. Cians are full of i find it soothing to live in a country where it is not so glamorous. It is true as well. When you look at the program of the ifd, why do people vote for that . Do they really agree with the program, are they ideologically convinced . Peter we are talking about the far right populist party. Pascale the new populist party which germany never had, and now they have one like all the rest of us. Peter you said welcome to the club at the top of the show. [laughter] 14 here, 20 there. It is quite a big result. But do these people vote for the convinceduse they are that this program is the right way or is it just to protest, emotion . I thought that is what she wanted to say. Derek you could also call it truthiness. Like what, doing the iraq war, they must have weapons of mass destruction. We s see with donald trump, he does that asas well, that must e true, dont come to me with facts. It shows that you can get 20 by pushing the emotionanal bututto, thatat merkel said is not worth going near, because germans are not emotional voters. But they get 20 , and they shatter the arithmetic. Merkel is there and she has a party that needs a Coalition Party or perhahaps to two. That is the issue. I have been surprised that merkel basically sends out a version of herself, which is unemotional, that does not offer take those. That has does not offer pathos. That has worked for 11 years. But if you are the afd and push the button, that is new. Peter people are curious about Angela Merkel, they see the mask. They know she is hyperactive rational, a pragmatist, and a trained scientist. She has done that for 11 years. I want you to speculate, what goes on behind the mask . She has been humiliated recently. She was human related by her allies, and the election, she has been left isolated. That hurts, i guess. Alan i dont think so. Derek i always imagine behind her face there is a political abacus, and the beads are going backandforth. Shesou ask questions, constantly calculating. I think the question for her, it was mentioned several times, until now she has sent herself out to be reelected. Her party just comes along for the ride. She has been so strong, that it was called asymmetric demobilization. Everyone elsewhere so disappointed, they were so convinced she was going to win, they just stayed at home. Whether that will work a third time, the notion that merkel is intoorse pulling them back power, whether that will work again or come up with a new trick, t that will be interesti. Maybe the new trick will be she will have to show it been more emotion, show a few more family photos. It was very hard for her to turn the car around at this stage, but maybe she will have to do something new like that to counter the emotion in post factual politics. Peter mr. Pozen or has something he wants to get off his chest. Alan she has been there before. After she lost the election in 2005, it was in her grasp. There she was, flanked, making her speech, by the party grandes. Chancellorhat then defeated her, abused her on tv, him in therty left coalition. She went on to get even with any one of the party grandes who flanked her. She will get even with all of them. She is not this cold, calculating, physicist. He is someone who gets even. But there are no grandes anymore. She has taken care of everyone. Only one left is her, because she is the party. Peter i would like to cut in right there. We already heard, there is no alternative. But is that true . Within the party, without the party, lets find out. Lets listen to set the other names mentioned. Csu, the leader has been making noises about running for chancellor, but if merkel agrees to his proposal on annual limits for refugees, he will probably stay where he is. Wolfgang, the finance minister, he has gone dodone a good job with b budget and is respected. But voters think he is stuffy. Besides, hes already 74 years old. The leader of the social Democratic Party and d deputyy chanancellor, pug nation and pug nation sent thickskinned. He may have a chance. Ministerense conspicuous, by her absence in the currenent political crisis, but she has always had her eye on the top spot, and that has alienated some of her party colleagues. Which of these candidates has the best chance . It is amazing how cynical these folks are. [laughter] there was a quartet of names, are either of them going to be the next german chancellor . Pascale i dont think so. The first two of them, they are actually too old. In the mid70s, that is really those are the ones in the running. Von der leyen,hen we dont hear anything. Peter shes very similar to Angela Merkel, people say. You were speculating, about who might read the next german chancellor. I can remember whether they had the same names. Merkel thought she was irreplaceable, but then she was gone. Nobody ever saw john major coming. I have been looking around german politics, trying to figure out. The interior minister, he has been responsible at the fefederl level. That might speak against him. On the positive side, he has elbowed her a little more than other politicians. That could be the man, just for a year or two to keep the party going. There is no real great white hope, so to speak. Peter that sounds a bit paltry. Germany, like prosperous as it is, it doesnt have anybody who can step into the breach . Alan no. Ursulat person we saw, is a great political talent, but shes already a victim of merkel. Merkel gave her the job of defense minister. You dont go from defense minister to chancellor. You do that through a terrible scandal and then into oblivion. Shes done for. I think the minister of the interior, the sort of stepped in, that might be. But the christian democrats need merkel to win precisely because they dont have anyone,. By the way, wolfgang is hated by all women in Germany Ursula is hated by all women in germany, because she is so great, she looks great, she has an incredibly rich husband, she is incredibly successful. Pascale that is such a male chauvinist statement. [laughter] alan i like her. But i think the women do not. [laughter] no alternative to Angela Merkel at this point in time, maybe. Maybe someone will come out of the ranks, we dont know. Is there an alternative to europe . Erkel in even when she goes, there will be a vacuum. We had an election in may. I think europe will be blocked. Mondays initiative, 80 usually comes from france and germany. We have to wait to see. Character in europe and very much respected, and also hateted for her liberal policie. Peter she is being shunned, especially by eastern europeans. They are giving her a very hard time. Derek lots of leaders in europe have always been opposed to Angela Merkel, but they could never get it together to form a posse and take her out, and humiliate her. People, like the group around poland and the czech republic, but we almost the in europe or you see in germany. Lots of people want to take her down, but they cant get it together. Think it is better the devil you know. Peter half a minute. Alan i think with breaking out, the point is that Angela Merkel is alone against the mediterranean states. Against france, spain and italy, who all want the introduction the european union, rightly so. If the referendum is won in january of next year, he is the man to watch in europe. Peter i begin to hear the music. That is the end of the show. How wounded is Angela Merkel . Alan shes ok. Pascale shes tough. Peter no problem there, no worries apparently. Derek shes got nine lives, i think she is on six or seven. Peter what we have learned is that this merkel era will continue, or should i say, drag on. Thank you for joining us. Us throughh with social media or the internet. Until next week, goodbye. Ccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc announcer this is a production of China Central television america. May lee its the talk of hollywood, but its not about the latest blockbuster. Tinsel town is being accused of whitewashing. Actors of color say theyve had enough of being overlooked for major roles and, whats worse, characters that are originally created as minorities are being replaced by caucasian actors. This week on full frame, how stereotypes both negative and positiveare a downfall to minorities. Im may lee in los angeles. Lets take it full frame. [theme music playing] man whoo hoo ooh, whoo hoo. May hi, everyone, and welcome to full frame. Jason scott lee is a chineseamerican actor whos perhaps best known for his breakout performance in the biopic dragon the bruce lee story, about the legendary chineseamerican martial artist. Man it is your birth certicicate. Jasoscott le bruclee. E. Man it sound d verymeririca bruc i im gogointo amemeca. Frenchries. Skys thlimimit. Thas at t thesay. Man t t a chamanans chchce. They say tha t too. Brbre im ffereren [shouts] man yr r kindont undedetand englis y you gs kikill my dada in korea. Yoththinkm ppy to seeouou in gymym . Bruce dtoucuch. Man owhwhat . Bruce oii tououchou bacac [man shout may a after his acclaimed portrayal of bruce lee, jason went on to star as mowgli in disneys 1994 live adaptation of the jungle okok. Hbecacamen inspatation oththersian acto w who rely saw latatabl faces in holwowood, t hehe eventual t took hiatatusrom hollywood foalalmostwo d deces becausththe ros fofor ian actors, esciciallysianan mes, were limited. Now, tod l lee i back ihollywooand sa thgs are improving, but e fit for a gher prole is still oning foasian acto. Joining now fm singaporto ta more abt this iss is jason ott lee. Jason, welcome to full frame. Glad to have you. Jason hello. Thank you, thank you. Im very honored to be here. May well, jason, lets start from the beginning. Was acting something that you always wanted to do or did you just sort of happen to get into it . Jason um, it wasnt something i always wanted to do. It was, uhit actually stemmed from sports, i think, because being, uh, an athlete in high school and then after high school, um, there was this appreciation of of audience, uh, uh, um, i guess applause andand adoration. Andand i think thats kind of set the stage for, um, my interest inin acting. May oh, ok. Jason um, yeah, so itit kind of started from that, and then, uh, as i got, uh, into los angeles by way of, um, academics and things, i started, uh, pulling more towards, um, the stage andand, uh, tv and film, uh, acting. May all right, right. Well, this is where itsthis is where it all happens, here in hollywood. But you mentioned you grew up in hawaii, and then, as you said, you then came to los angeles. So hawaii being majority asian population, as we know, um, coming to l. A. And trying to make it in hollywood, was that sort of a cultural shock for you . Jason uh, yeah. Um, i grew up in the islands in hawaii and, uh, we have aa sort of a language of our own. Wewe speak pidgin english. May right. Jason so eveneven landing myself in fullerton, california, inin orange county. May right. Jason uh, it was fairly what we called white bread, so i had to sort of retune my, uh, linguistics and, uh, try and fit in. And i think thats kind of been the game ever since, is is trying to fit in. And, um, and i think theyou know, the the hard part wasi mean, i think the easy part for me is is that i was fairly naive at the time. May mmm. Lee and, um, and i didnt have expectations, um, so that was sort of, uh, made the journey somewhat easier because the there was no requirement toto excel or anything. It was just, you know, kind of aa selfdriven thing. May right, right. But it must have been tough at that point, um, when you were starting because there were very few asians acting in hollywood, um, and those that were were just getting probably bit parts, uh, and not much exposure. So tell me what it was like for you when you would have to go out on auditions. What kind of res reactions would you get from casting directors . Jason um, in the early days, lelets say the latethe late eighties and, um, thethe roles were very, very limited. I mean, therethere was a lot of, uh, projects that were coming up that were immigra immigrant, uh, roles. May mmm. Jason um, uh, mostly oneliner bit roles or even oneword, uh, bit roles. May right. Jason um, and, you know, like i said, i was a young actor. I was 19 years old and, um. Uh, there wasnt a lot of expectations. And i think the the big turnaround for me came when i started, uh, doing leads, uh, or when i started getting, uh, bigger roles, say, in aa cbs afterschool special or something. May mmm. Mmhmm. Jason and thothosethen you really started to see, once you started getting into thethe larger supporting roles or, um, the leading roles, then you really started seeing how inhibited, uh, your opportunities were. May right, right, and, uh, lots of stereotyping, which were going to talk about in a second. But your big break, of course, was when you played bruce lee in the biopic. That. Jason correct. May must have been incredibly intimidating and exciting at the same time for you. Tell me what that was like. Jason uh, ii grew up with bruce lee. Bruce lee was an icon for me. Uh, my father used to take me to his films. May yeah. Jason and, um, i was completely blown away, even in my first meeting with, uh, universal. Um, theyover the phone, they told me to come in for this project called dragon. They did not tell me it was aa biopic for bruce lee. May oh, my. You had no idea . Jason so when i sat down. May wow jason i had no idea. When i sat down with them, um, uh, they explained to me, and ii immediately thought to myself, i muhe musti must be kidding myself. Mamay ha ha jaso thes way. Can ii didnt t haveny m maral arts traing at theimime. Ma wow. Jason uh, i dididn uhyou know, itssi aays s ma the comt c compason n th its like askg sosomee who ner danced befe e to ptrayay rudolf neyeyev. May ha ha jason uh, iaaa sry like tt. T. May right. Jason s u um, yh, i i w andandit was h heavyeighght. It was a hvyvy, hey buburd on my shouldersececause wasas jt starting mcacareeruh, i s 25 years oldndndan um,m, i thought, if i ma a fool myselfn this thaand ive se, uh, a t of actortry to rtray m, andd fail miseray, or nd of someat ke a mocry of it, d i felt like, d, i justn my hrt, i st wand to do e man justice. Iust want to make sothing th was incdibly dymic andnd thattt reallyold thatthat his charis, his ergy. May yeah. Jason and his, uh, just zest for life. And i had problems withwith the training, um, when i was getting into it. Ii hadactually had an emotional, uh, breakdown through it. May oh, really . Jason uh, just cause ii wasnt, uhi thought the train was moving too fast. May huh. Jason and, um, so, in, you know, in hindsight, you know, it was kind of necessary because there are certain. Issues that you need to plow through and, you know, uh, um, obstacles that you need to break through, andand sometimes they dont happen unless you invest or that kind of emotion or make that kind of commitment. May right. Its got to be a fullblown commitment toa role like that, especially, because hes so iconic and so well known. Thatthat had to be a lifechanging experience, uh, and also for your career, but lets get to the nitty gritty here about why were talking today, and thats the stereotypes that exist in hollywood and to this day for asian actors, uh, who want to make it in hollywood. The bruce lee story, that was about an asian man, so therefore that was an easier role for an asian actor to play. So what are your thoughts on whats going on in hollywood to this day . We hear a lot of criticism still about whitewasashing, you u know, oscs so whitethat was a big controversy, you know, earlier this year. Jason yeah. May whatwhat do you think now . Whatwhat do you thinks happening . Jason ha ha oh, boy. It itsits finally getting the recognition, you know, the issues areare getting the recognition it it actually needs. May yeah. Jason um, thats my point of view. Iuh, iive been up for a number of the more recent, uh, uh, roles thatthat were, uh, significantly asian in origin, and, uh, was passed on. So. Itsi always thought, you know, back in the nineties that i thought it would go forward. It was always this promise that, uh, oh, you know, things are going to change, um, you know, uh, but itits gotten somewhat more confusing. May mmm. Howhow so . Jason and i look at itwell, back when wein the eighties when we started, feature films were sort of this elite kind of place to be in, and thats why you had the oscars. May right. Jason um, tvtv andand internet was not as prevalent, uh, and it kind ofititits showingits rearing its head now that youtv has much more diversity. Ma for sure. Jason and, , and e internetif youook at youtube, has an inthe percentage of ethnic g groups tt are involved in front of the camerara isis gege. May y right. Jason n um, and sfefeature fils still carry that kind of, um, that power, you know, where its still trying to create an elite, uh, program. May right. Jason and, uh, along with that, you know, come egos andand, uh, sort of, you know, it goes hand in hand, and so with that may butso jajason. Jason yeah . May who do you blwho do you blame, then, um, for this problem in hollywood, especially like youre saying, in the movie business . Is it the executives . Is it the producers . Is it the Decision Makers . Is it the audience . Uh, is it the role of actors like you who need to push the envelope a little bit more . What do you think . Jason uh, ii really contend that its all of the above. May ok. Jason um, yeah, because, um, iiim not a personality kind of think to blame anybody, i think. Um, if we want to really show our stories, and if our culture is so much thatso much more different than mainstream western culture, then we should write our own stories, we should develop so thatthatwe have ourselves to blame for that. May mmm. Jason on the other hand of the spectrum, we door we are looking at executives and we are looking at studios that that have the inclination to make decisions to change things oror enhance, you know, the situation for the better, but are not making those calls. May right, right. Jason um, so youyou do have, you know, backandforth issues, um may because it isit is frustrating, jason. I mean, um, me, as analso an asasianamerican, when i see theseconstantly these decisions being made about the roles, um, and who is being cast for these roles that are originally, uh, meant to be an asian character and then they cast someone whos caucasian. And thats still happening today over and over and over again, so i cant imagine what its like to be in the business as an asian actor. I see it from the outside, and i get frustrated, so. Jason heheh heh heh may it must bei dont know. I mean, do you feel like its one step forward, two steps back . I mean, thatsthats sort of the feeling i get from folks here in hollywood, um, who are trying to make a difference, butand yet they dont see enough change going on. Jason yeah, thatthats true. Um, um, it is, uh, one step forward, two steps back. I mean, iitits hard toto really i think, you know, like you say, like now, ok . Lets say, um, we have actors of asianamerican descent who are speaking out. May mmhmm. Jason but if you notice, most of the people that are speaking out are actors that are doing pretty well for themselves. May right. Jason um, theyre working actors, theyretheyre highly visible. Um, what you dont see is a lot of actors who are not working or who are afraid to step up to the plate. May yeah, right. Jason andand be vocal because, you know, theirtheir jobs are pending. They got bills to pay. May yep. Jason you know, they got kids to feed, and, um, a lot of people arent willing to step forward. And i think, as aas a collective, asianamericans, unless theyre, like, you know, thirdgeneration, um, they. Theyrere not really vocal about a lot of issues to be argumentative about. May mmm, mmm. Jason we tend to be, as a collective, a little more, um, do the work, keep your head down, stay humble, you know, kind of thing, um, so there theretheresi think, over the years, its been that way. Theres been individuals who havewho have been outspoken, whove had the platform at some point or another. May right. Jason um, and maybe itit hasnt been a Strong Enough push, you know . It hasnt had a big wave of effect like how the africanamericans have had, um, inin their approach to Entertainment Industry. May right, right. It just jason you know, theyve sort of taken it by storm. May it does seemyeah, it does. Sorry, jason, to interrupt, but it does seem like we are starting to just see this paradigm shift thats a bit stronger this time around, um, that asian jason yeah, ii think that may yeah. Jason mmhmm. May yeah, go ahead. Jason i think the new generation, the newer generation areareare starting to actually become more western, become more vocal, you know. The, um, uh, you know, step into theinto the life for politics as well, andand as well as, um, you know, racism, so may right, right. Well, you know, jason, youre right now in singapore, um, in asia, and so i think its pretty interesting what were seeing when it comes to media, um, and especially the power of asiaparticularly the power ofof chinawhen i it Como Hollywood wanting to, you know, uh, seize the moment and get that market share in china. So do you think thats going to shift the way that the media behaves and the way that movies are cast because of the growing power of asia . Jason tsk. Um, you know, that thats been happening for about 20 years now, and. Its the money grab thats there, um, whether there are asians in films or not. If theyre going to, you know, make big bucks off of any kind of film featuring, uh, say, predominantly caucasian actors, then thetheyre going to put money towards it. If unlessyou know, its like, inin china, they want to see their own stars. Theythey want to see, um, you know, their own, um, identity there, um, so even as an asianamerican, we dont quite fit in. May mmm. Jason because maybe ourour mandarin is not asas fluent asas what they demand. May right. Jason um, so iii havent seen much change in that direction. Thehollywood is definitely collecting a lot of money forfor hollywood films. May yep. Jason um, and theyre doing very well inin china, um, but you dont see a significant, uh, change, meaning the investors from china are not particular, uh, about who is in the movie. Mamay yeah. Jason and maybeyou know, we always had this thing, you know, throughout my career about being the token asian, you know. Its like you looatat some of t the g blockbuster,r, uh, superhero movies, and theyll put in a token asian. May yep. Jason you know, andandbut they wontthey will not give itgive that bigger role, or the leading role to, uh, an asianamerican. May right. Jason um, but theylltheyll give you, like, little kibbles n bits, yeah . May jason, um, one last question. Uh, what are you up to . What are yoursome of the projects that, uh, youre workrking on and w what can we expepect from you . U . Jason um,m, imim actualally getting behind the pen and im actually writing, so, um, i im looking forward to, uh, doing stuff. Uh, theres theres some things happening with youtube red. Um, theres also some, uh, indie films that, uh, show a lot of redemption, a lot of heart in. May great. Jason so theyeah, i got stuff going on. Its fun, you know. May good. Well, im glad to hear. Well, jason, it was such a pleasure talking to you today. Thank you so much for your time. I i really appreciate it. Jason nice toto meet you. Thank you alall. May ok. Takake care. Jason byebye. May well, diversity is something that cant be ignored as the makeup of moviegoers becomes more and more diverse, so some directors are trying to expose audiences to the talents of minority actors. Asianamerican director jon m. Chu is trying to do just that. Hes recently been tapped to direct the movie adaptation of crazy rich asians, a 2013 bestseller novel by kevin kwan. Chu says he plans to shoot with an allstar asian cast. Full frame correspondent Sandra Hughes recently caught up with the filmmaker to talk about his 2016 release of now you see me 2 and his thoughts on the state of hollywood. Announcer r ladies and gentlem, the 4 horsemen. Woman and the gl horsemanan. Whoooo yeah sandra now you see me 2 is a caper filmlm with a dedetour to china. Man we jumped off a rooftop in new york. Second man where the hell are we . [third man shouts] man and landed in china. Sandra which is very fitting for its director, jon chu, the youngest of 5 children born to chinese parents who taught him a work ethic that has taken him from the halls of the university of Southern California film school to the highest levels of hollywood in less than a decade. Jon i think that, um, for me, when im making a movie, thats what i focus o on, is what am mi making, who am i servingng . Not, uh, the fame that may come with it or the magazine articles that may come with it or the reviews that may come with it. I try not to let any of those things affect m me. Ths not whwhy i do it. Um, i alwaysys knew from a kid, like, whether peoeople were going to pay me or not, i wawas always going to make movieies. I will continue e to for the ret of my life. Sandra it was his College Short film t that first got him noticd by one of the biggest names in hollywoodsteven spielberg. Jon its called when the kids are e ay, and i it was about a 17minute e musical shshort film about the e secret life ofof mos and what they do when the kids are away for the day, and they sing and dance, of course. E. Sandra ha ha ha exactly what we dont do. Jon ha ha ha sandra that is so funny. Jon uh, its a giant musical of all these mothers comoming together and, uh, its sort of a fairy tale in it. What were trying to do, the texture that were trying to bring to the project. Sandra, vovoiceover from ther, hes been working nonstop o on films and tv shows. His interest in hollywood diversity evolved along with his career. Jon and i started going to chinaid never been to china beforeandand talking to companies there e to see if thee wasi dont know of a chinese movie, even chineselanguage movie or an american movie that could have chinese elements into it, but never really finding the right fit and never quite, uh, until recently with crazy rich asians, where it spoke to both sides of me. It spoke to me findnding my, um, identity balae side bececause thats what a lot of the story is about. It t als, um, spoke to my familys traditional side of theirwhat they think about asian america, this generation of asians, and what they think that we should be retaining from their journey. Um, also, my grandparents side, um, and also my friends who look intnto ourourour family and see it. So, uh, all of those elemenents were a part of this story th i i thought w was realy fascinating, um, and the facact that its an allasian cast. Sandra chus latestst projects a movivie called crazy richch asians, based on the book by kevin kwan. For chu, its all coming at a time when diversity is one of the hottest topics in hollywood. This Years Academy awards, held here at the dolby theatre, were boycotted by many africanamerican actors because of an absence of nominations. That led to a movement called oscars so white, but the Academy Awards host, africanamerican comedian chris rock, made a joke using asian children onstage. That made many asianamericans in the Entertainment Industry angry and asking why were they left out of the discussion on diversity. Chris rock the result of tonights Academy Awards have been tabulated by the accounting fifirm of price, waterhouse cooper. They sent us their mot dedicateted, accurate, and hardwororking representatives. I want you to please welcome ming zu, b bao ling, and dadavid moskowitz. Z. Jon the fact that its aa deal now because of a joke, that shows thatthatththat we havent had aa real discussion about it because ultimately, it is just a joke. But, like, we should be talking about deeper things than a joke at t an awars show. We should bebe talking abt the actual worork and what is actually going to be on the screen to make c changes. Sandndra so do o you feel comfortable in a meeting with, you know, studio bigwigs when youre talking about projects, saying, hey, um, lets dont just look atat the same emma stoneses every timime were l lg for a a female l lead . Jon uh, no, i dont. I should be d doing it and i amam startio do it, butut it absolutely feels uncomfortablble. It absolulutely makes me feel weweird. Um. I wish i could say it didnt, but ijust talking about race is awkward for me. Ii dont know, uh, how else to put it and, um, but i do now, and its getting less awkward and its getting g more like were all in the cononversation. Sandra that conversation was the topic of discussion in steven j. Kungs first feature film called a leading man. Man cut second man im not a eunuch. I only play one on tv. Third man no job is worth your dignity and respect. Sandra the film follows the life of an asianamerican actor who gets stereotyped on the road to stardom. Kung it just shows the hardship of b being an asianamerican acr in hollywood cause itssits just. Its very painful to be in a profession where you cant find a job. Sandra kung now serves as the codirector of the asianamerican committee at the directors guild, fosostering the careers of other asian directors, and hes working on the readaptioion ofhe m mov dear whe e peop. Man ou want know whthey used to call me blk mimitch . Second man absolulyly. Woman obobody lleded y that. T. Sandra to a aetflix iginal sieies. Kung i inink amicaas in search oa a greacaththars in tes of whats goinon in tes of race. And swhwhen people wat t the sies s in017, theyrere goi to o setelevivion thats very hont and reecects the rld we le in, anthats part o owhat diverty incluon all about, yoknowseei somethg on tv at refles e worsthathat flects the multiculturaralism around y. Sandra for both steven j. Kung and jon chu, growing up in america has given them opportunities, but when they were young, there were few role models onscreen or behind the camera. Ultimately, what would you like to see c change in hollywood . Jon for a young asisianamericn to look on the screen and see themselves, um, that their possibilities of being superman are just as much as the kid at school who looks like superman. Sandra and with young asian talent on the move in hollywood, that idea is a script just waiting to be written. For full frame, this is Sandra Hughes in hollywood. May coming up next, one womans unique attempt to correct hollywoods racial mistakes. Stay with us. Man whoo hoo ooh, whoo hoo ooh, whoo hoo ooh, whoo hoo may the 2016 Academy Awards reignited the diversity debate in hollywood, and the oscars so White Campaign dominated sococil media, fueling outrage and action. The omission of minorities both in casting and award nominations was particularly personal to aspiring actor and blogger michelle villemaire. Simultltaneously discocouraged d inspired, she decided to usese r blog to share a radical new project, correcting yellowface. Using photography, she illustrated hollywywoods prpractice of f whitewashing, casting caucasians in n minority roles. Posing sidebyside nexet to nonasian actresses playiying roles clearly memeant for asasi, villemaire chronicled hollywoods long history of exclusion and stereotyping. Michelle joins me now to tell us more about her fantastic project. I have to say, i thought this was so clever and so powerful in the way you used these images. Michelle thank you, may. May so whatyou know, before i ask you what inspired you, lets go back to when you were growing up as a kid. Asianamerican kid just like me, you know, i mean, in sort of a white community. Did you realize when you were growing up that you had this asian identity and you were different and, if so, i mean, how did that shape you . Michelle absolutely. I mean, i am, um, halfasian. Um, my father is caucasian, um, and my mother is thaichinese, so i always had one foot in both both worlds. May both cultures, yeah. Michelle um, but i look mainly asian. May yeah. Michelle so theretheres my identity, um, and i went to school with mostly, uh, white kids, um, most of my life. May yeah, so diddid youdid you feel like an outsider . I mean, did that affect the way in which you saw yourself, you know, inin society . Michelle absolutely. I felt like an outsider, um, and i didnti wasnt seeing myself ononon television and in films. Um may thats the thing because i mean, we were saying, before we started this segment, both of us grew up not seeing asian images in the media at all. Michelle right, right. May so what did you thinkyou noticed that, even as a kid . Michelle i did. Uh, you know, i grew up watching black and white movies with my grandfather and, um, first decided that i wanted to be an actor when i saw Shirley Temple onscreen having fun and, you know, wearing costumes and tap shoes, and i wanted to be her. May yeah. Michelle um, and, uh, and my my grandfather, um, was in love with marilyn monroe, so one of the first movies may well, who wasnt . Michelle yeah. [both laugh] may right. Michelle so i used to watch those movies with him, and one of the first, um, grownup movies i remember watching was gentlemen prefer blondes. May oh. Michelle and even though i didnt understand thethe context of what was happening, um, the title alone may the title alone, yeah. Michelle you know, theres so much multilevel messaging within that title. May yep. Michelle you know, um may yeah, because i grew up wanting to have blue eyes. Michelle yeah. May and blonde hair, and i wanted my name to be mary. Michelle mmm. May you know, because, again, we were so subjected to those images and those images alone. Michelle i changed my name a few times, too. I remember putting clothespins on my nose to make my nose narrower. May wow. Michelle because i was ashamed. May yeah. Michelle of what i looked like. It didnt fit in and it didnt belong onon camera. May yeah. Michelle as far as i knew, as far as they were telling me. May it wasnt the accepted image of beauty and what people desired, right . Yeah. Michelle right, right. May so that, uh, obviously, leads you to this phenomenal project, correcting yellowface. Um, why did you decide to do it . I mean, what what made you go and, you know, say to yourself, all right, you know, im going toim going to take this on . Michelle well, theres been a lot of talk about whitewashingng in hollywood lately, um, and i lets see. Ii have a blog. Im a creative person. May yeah. Michelle i like to make things. Um, im always looking f for new mediums, a and im not a great photographer, but i decided to, um, to use my y voice in this way ththis time. May yeah, yeah. Michelle so i decided to, uh may but obviously you were moved enough and maybe angry enough. Michelle yeah. May to do this because, again, it is very powerful. Were going to take a look at some of the images, but you obviously were not just mad, you were like, im going to do something about this and make a statement. Michelle yeah. A lot of people were talking about it as if it was the first time they were hearing about it, and iive been aware for a while. About 10 years ago, iin adulthood, i discovered anna may wong, andand her story really moved me. May yep. Michelle ii started to write a screenplay about her life and, uh, then i had a family, and and that took a back seat, but, um may and again, mosta lot of folks in america dont even know who she is. Michelle ok, well, she was, as you know, thethe first chineseamerican movie star. May yep. Michelle and she had a shot at it, um, but because of the way the world was back then, she was not allowed to play opposite white men ononscreen. May y right, as a romantic lea, right . Yeah, that was sort of a moral code that was followed in hollywood. Michelle yes, yes. May yeah, so that prevented her from getting a lot of parts that she would have been perfect for. Michelle yes. May yeah. Michelle and they were casting white men asasasian men. May exactly, exactly, sook, lets go to some of these photos because they are fantastic and we have to show them off. Uh, lets look at luise rainer. Hehere she is. Michelelle the gooood earth. May y the good e earth, righ . Michelle yes, there she is. May pearl s. Bucks s book. Michchelle shes of germaman descenent, i believeve. May gererman descent, playing a chinese e woman. Michelle yes. May uh, and so look at you, toto the right. Michelelle i, uh may how was that . What was that like . Michelle um, i found a black tshshirt, and i wrappeded it ad like a bandanna. May yep. Michelle and i had a chinese traditional shirt. Uh, a friend of mine helped me with the photoshop to make it look like i had been working in the fields. May yes, you look tired. Michelle yes, yes, i didnt wear makeup, so im proud of myself for that. Um may but, yeah, there you go. I mean, a real asian playing that role,e, versus a a woman of german descent. Michelle yeah. May yeah, but she did go on to, apparentlyshe won the Academy Award for that, didnt she . Michelle yes. May yeah. All right, lets go to the next one. All right, the legendary katharine hepburn. Shshe played an n asian woman. N. Michellele i discoverered thisn i was seararching for yeyellowfe pictures, anand i was shococked. May amazingng. Michelle shocked. May ii had no idea. Michelle this was also another book by pearl s. Buck, um, dragon seed, and she plays a chinese villager. May its, uh, incredible. Michelle mmhmm. May i mean, howshe doesnt look asian. Im sorry. Michelle she doesnt look asian and they must have used some, um, some glue and tape to. May to make her eyes. Michelle to give her may smaller andyeah, ok. Michelle and narrow. May yeah, i definitely prefer your picture. All right, lets go to number 3myrna loy. Now, she was a favorite actress to beto use in different asian roles, for some reason. Michelle yes, yeah. For some reason, she just kepept gettig cast over anand over. May rightht. Michelelle as an asian woman. May here shshe is, yup. Mimichelle there she is, ththe daughthter of fu mananchu. May ok. Michelle um. May not convincing, ok. Michelle which is problematic in a lot of ways, but may ha ha ha sorry, im being really cynical about this, for obvious reasons. Iand then here she is again. Michelle and there she is again and, you know, i saw these pictures and i thought, um, uh, this really. I really wanted to have fun like she was having fun, and thats why i wanted to be an actress when i was a little girl. I wanted to wearar the costumemes. May t to play dressssup like. Michelle and i wanteded toto play drssup. May sure. Michelle and i wanted to be in those roles. May you l look fabulous, by the way, in this photo. Michelle thank you. May really. Michelle thank you very much. May uh, thats an amazing photo. Michelle i found that headdress in chinatown. May you did . Michelle i did. Ha ha i showed the lady the picture, and im like, iyou dont have anything like this, do you . Shes like, yeah, right there. May wow. Ok. Now were going to look atthis was in the king and i, right . Michelle the king and i, yes. May yeah. Michelle rita moreno, obviously latina, um, but because imim part thai, i had to go r ththis one,. May this f fabis oututt of yours is faloloustoo. Michel ye i rented that, uh, from thai ore. May mazing. Mielle in ti town. May ithai tow ok. Mielle ye. Ha h may allight, nowere going to gto, uhemma sto. This was recent mie, alo, where shees suppososedly 1 4 asian, r right . Michel well, hahalf. Halfaasian. May halfasasian . Michelelle 1 4 hawawaiian. May andnd 1 4 hawaiiaian, righ. Michellele 1 4 hawaiiiian, 1 4, u uh, chinese. May ok. U um, reaeally . Mimichelle i know. May i mean, really . Y . Michelle i know. May y there was such h a backlh ababout this bececause that wawe most ridiculouous casting, real. It was just so outlandish. Michelle the defense was that her character was not supposed to look asian. May ok, she looks whiter than most white people. I mean, you know what im saying . Michelle i know, i know. May yeah, but, uh, adorable outfit that you put together. Michelle oh, thank you. May and lets just talk about oneone second about the fact that you really had to try and find all of these outfits, and thats where your diy, obviously, comes in to try to create some of these looks. Michelle right, yeah, i did. I created that hat, uh, from aloha. May right. Michelle um, that was fun. I mean, i justi had a good time doing it. I mean, ii cant be angry all the time. May right. Michelle you know . Ii may it had joy in it as well. Michelle yes. May right . Ok, now, uh, another recent, uh, casting, uh, miscscasting, uh, is scarlettt jojohansson playaying a, um, a e of a character f from comimic books, rigight . Michchelle the g ghost in the shell. May and that is a sort of a iconic role to a lot of fans, and so peoplwewere reay upup in arms about isis. Chelle really uet out thth. Ma yeah. Mielelle , the chchacter has a j japane backound. Ma yeah. Michel shes a janese woman. May apanese,ully janese. Michle yes, y. May y. Chelle here were aga, yeah, 20. May tts ere i wanto ask u, younow, i mn, when yowhen you started doing all this research and seeing that it started decades ago, but were still seeing this happen today. Michelle mmhmm. May itsits pretty frustrating, isnt it . Michelle its very frustrating. Why is it still happening . May why is it still happening . I dont know. Michelle oh. May yeah, thatsthats where i think the Asian Community andtell me what you think about it. I mean, this time it seems like theyre vocalizing this a lot more, uh, the frustrations are coming out, and people are really starting to step up and talk about this, rather than just letting it go. Do you see that kind of change happening . Michelle absolutely, yeah. I mean, i dont think were our mothers um, model minority anymore, you know . Were noisier. May right. Michelle you know, we dont were not worried about what other people think. Were not worried about impressing our ancestors. May thats right, thats right. Michelle you know . Oror we are, and this is the way that were doing it. Were speaking up. May exactlyly, exactly. I mean, by you doing this, you are definitely shedding light on it and talking about the history of it and the fact that its still happening. So what kind of response have you gotten . Michelle amazing response, may. May yeah . Michelle amazing response. I ive been moveved to tears by te things that people have said. May really . Michelle and ii had no intention of it going viral the way that it did, but its been printed ininin china, in thailand, in france and australia, india, all over, um, and people have emailed me, telling me thank you, um may are people telling you their own stories about michelle yes, theyre telling their own stories and how they they look at the pictures, and they feel healed, in a way. May wow. Wewell, michelelle, tk you so much for coming in. Michelle thank you for having me. May andnd im so proud of you, um, as a fellow asianamerican, that you brought to light this topic in the way you did, in such a creative way. Michelle thank you. May all right. Good luck to you. Michelle thanks. May all right, coming up, how one actor is using humor to change hollywood and societys stereotypes of middle eastern characters. Well be right back. Man whoo hoo ooh, whoo hoo ooh, whoo hoo ooh, whoo hoo may were going to continue this theme of racial stereotypes. This time, lets take a look at another group thats often misrepresented in the media, the middle eastern community. Negative stereotypes are intensifying as antimuslim rhetoric is growing. Well, iranianamerican actor and comedian maz jobrani is doing his part to try and change that distorted image. Hes appeared on hit tv shows like greys anatomy, curb your enthusiasm, true blood, and the tonight show. Jobrananis hilarious material is spoton when it comes to stereotypes of muslims and very effective in promoting better understanding. Maz but no, guys, really, it is exciting to be here and, like i said, you guys are doing a lot, uh, culturally, uh, you know, and its amazing. And it helps change the image of the middle east in the west. Like, a lot of americans dont know a lot about us, about the middle east. Im iranian and american. Im there. I know thethe you know, ive traveled here. Theres so muchwe laugh, right . People dont know we laugh. When i did the axis of evil comedy tour, it came out on comedy central. I went online to see what people were saying about it. I ended up on a conservative web site. One guy wrote another guy. He said, i never knew these people laughed. [audience laughter] think about it. You never see us laughing in american film or television, right . Maybe, like, an evil, like. [imitates maniacal laughter] [audience laughter] i will kill you in the name of allah. [laughs maniacally] but never like. [giggles] [audience laughter] we like to laugh. We like to celebrate life. And i wish more americans would travel here. I always encourage my friends, travel, see the middle east, theres so much to see, so many good people. And its vice versa and it helps, uh, uh, stop problems ofof misunderstanding and stereotypes of happening. May so true. Well, his 2015 memoir, im not a terrorist, but ive played one on tv details life growing up as an iranianamerican and his struggles working in hollywood. Jobrani says he and his fellow middle easternamerican entertainers are often typecast in the stereotypical roles of villains and terrorists. In his bold new comedy film, Jimmy Vestvood amerikan hero, he parodies these stereotypes and shows that people of middle eastern descent can also be leaders, heroes, and, most importantly, just normal human beings. Here with me now is maz jobrani. Maz, great to have you on the show. Maz thanks for having me, may. May yes. Maz i appreciate being may youre hilarious, i mean, in so many ways, but, i mean, itsits so nice to see when comedy can address really serious issues, right, of stereotypes and racism . Maz yeah, absolutely. I think comedyyou know, iive been a fan of comedy since i was a kid. May yeah. Maz uh, i was a big fan of Eddie Murphys when i was a kid. May yup. Maz and i wanted to be like him. May, chuckling yeah. Maz uh, but then once i started doing standup, uh, about 18 years ago, i started listening a lot more andand watching a lot more richard pry richard pryor. May yeah. Maz uh, george carlin, some of these guys who would get political. May the oldschool guys, yeah. Maz the oldschool guys, but they got political and they and they had social commentary. And i think that comedy can really do a good job of that. Thats why a show like the daily show is so great now because theres constant social and political commentary going on. May and its educational, right . I mean, bececse youre sending a message out in the form of laughter, but it does it definitely resonates that way, even better sometimes. Maz yeah, absolutely. You know, its funny. I was on a panel one time with the comedian d. L. Hughley, and i always quote him. He said that, uh, comedy is like giving people their medicine, but in orange juice. May oh, thats perfect. Thats brilliant. Maz yeah, so they dont taste it. May right. Maz you know what im saying . I mean, i think a lot of times, people are more open to listening to a message that comes through comedically, as opposed to just listening someone listening to a politician speak. May totally agree. Maz right away, youreyoure biased against what theyre going to say. May exactly. Maz but when youre there, laughing at a comedy club or at a theater, you might not even realize that the guys sending a message until later on in the car. You go, oh, wait. He was trying to get a point across. May and you actually remember it because it was so dang funny, right . Maz yeah, and i think one of the more important things, too, is, as aas a comedian and an actor of middle eastern descent, for me, um, its thatyou know, comedians and actors from that part of the world, in america its a relatively new thing. May yeah. Maz when i first started 18 years ago, there werent any other middle eastern comedians, a handful of us. May right. Maz now theres a lot more, so the thing thats interesting has beeni think its important for audiences to come to a show and sit with an audience fromwith people from that background and laugh with them. I think that thatbeyond just the comedian onstage, they can look around the room and see, oh, wow. Theres iranians laughing, theres arabs laughing, theres a muslim laughing, theres a lady in a hijab laughing next to me. Itsitsi think it blows peoples minds. May well, before we get to talking about how youre trying to break these stereotypes, lets go back a little bit to your childhood. Youyour family immigrated when you were 6 years old, right . Maz yeah, well, 6 years old, right around the time of the iranian revolution. May right. Maz uh, we moved from iran to america. May to tiburon. Maz tiburon, northern california, yeah. May in the area, which is pretty white, isnt it . Maz its very white. Ill tell you how white it is, because my dad being iranian, um, he was a selfmade, uh, millionaire. He was a successful man, and i think iranianssometheres a group of iranians who tend to be very ostentatious. May yes. Maz i always say, like, now, living in los angeles, a lot of those iranians came to los angeles, and los angeles is ostentatious, iranians are ostentatious. Its like ostentation on steroids, right . May ha ha maz uh, well, you can see on that tv show, the shahs of sunset, right . May yes. Maz itsits over the top. May oh, yeah. Maz but its interesting cause going to marin, where it was its aits a rich county, its a wealthy place, but a lot of the rich people in marin were a little more subtle with their wealth. May right. Maz so they would drive volvos and saabs. May ha ha maz and here comes my dad from iran, and he shows up and he buys a rollsroyce. May, laughing oh, man maz and i was like, what are you doing, man . Its, like, you know, ruining my childhood. May wow. So was that tough for you, though, totoi mean, that must have been maz it was very tough cause when youre a kid, youre trying to blend in. You dont want to stand out as a different kid, right . May and then, when youre trying to blend in. Maz yeah. May to a new culture, theres got to be that clash sometimes. Maz yeah, and i really liked to push that envelope. Like, even in my standup sometimes, i like to kind of show the hypocrisy. Like, when i did my book, uh, im not a terrorist, but i play one on tv. May yeah. Maz and on the cover of the book, i intentionally put on a palestinian keffiyeh, the head gear, and im holding, like, a wile e. Coyote bomb, and ive got an expression on my face like, how did i end up here . May yeah. Maz and im trying to make fun of how hollywood mixes us up all together. I was trying to make fun of that. Now, iranians are very sensitive to not being called arabs because they just want people to know that arabs and iranians are different. May mmhmm. Maz well, i put the cover of the book on my Facebook Page and i said, hey, my books coming out. Please check it out. And some iranian lady sent me an email on facebook, you know, why are you wearing arab headgear on the cover of your book . We are not arabs. We are persian. May ha ha ha maz i had to write her back. I was like, calm down, lady. Im trying to make fun of hollywood, right . May right, right. Maz and it was just funny, this backandforth that i had with this lady, and i was trying to point out that, you know, i understand thatthat the world needs to know that were different, but i feel that your approach to it, this ladys approach, is somewhat racist. Youre trying to say, were better. May right, right. Maz you know, why are you mixing us up with these people, these savages . And i was like, you need to check yourself. Lets really, likewe are all citizens of the world, and i just like to put that on people sometimes. May yeah, yeah, through your comedy, which iswhich is the way to go, honestly. Well, lets talk about your experience in hollywood because, you know, obviously this show is about how the, you know, minorities are still having their issues and still running into those obstacles, right . For you, youve openly talked about that, that, you know, you guys are always cast as the villains, the terrorists, and all that. So tell me aboutdo you see a change at all, or do you see it getting worse, better . Maz well, you know, i think, um, i think that overall, my thoughtmy thought process is this, that i think when an immigrant culture comes from another country to america, the first generation that comes, the parents that come, they set up shop and they want their kids to be doctors and lawyers and engineers. May definitely. Maz thats it cause thats all they know. May thats all they know, yeah. Maz and they go, look, ii fought in a civil war to get you over here. May right. Maz youre going to yourere not going to be a comedian, right . May yeah, ha ha maz i dont even know what that means. May right. Maz right . May your parents probably werent psyched about that. Maz they were not at all, yeah, yeah, sobut whats interesting is, though, as we come to america and we assimilate, we realize that you can have a career in the arts, you can have a career in entertainment. And furthermore, we realize that you can have a voice, and i think im seeing more and more people from these backgrounds, whether its iranians or arabs or muslims or even, likelike asianamericans, like, theres a lot of people that are getting inbehind the scenes. May yeah. Maz and once we have people behind the scenes, then i think we can start telling our stories a little bit better. May y right, right. Maz um, i thinki dont i dont necessarily blame hollywood because im sitting there goinglook, if im a guy whos never had an experience withi dont know any middle easterners, i dont know muslims, i dont know arabs, i dont know iranians. Im writing aa movie, uh, thats taking place during the iraq war. Well, im going to make all the iraqis bad guys cause they were the bad guys. May yeah, yeah. Maz it just makes sense cause thats all i know. But if i were an iraqi and i were writing that same movie, i might sit there and go, wait a minute. I know its about the iraq war, but let me show you how this one guy got caught up in the war that was a good guy. May yeah. Maz right . So i do feel that there is some promise, uh, but i think we have a long way to go still. May yeah, i mean, thatyoure saying thats one way of doing it, where you get more people behind the scenes toto be more of the creators. But you actually took a bolder action on your part to say, ok, you know what . Im not going to play these roles anymore. Maz yeah, iiyou know, what happened wasso early in my career, i did a couple of parts, like 2 or 3 parts, where i played a terrorist. May mmhmm. Maz and that was just because i thought thats what you got to do. I thought, well, you get an audition, you go on the audition. I didnt realize you could tell your agents and everybody else, no, i dont want to do this. Soandand also, i had a day job and i was trying to get out of the day job, so i thought the more of my jobsthe more of these jobs i get, the morefirst of all, im making money to help me get out of the day job. May right. Maz but secondly, itits leading somewhere for my career, um, and so i did those. I did thei did a chuck norris movie of the week, where i played a terrorist and it was horrible. May oh, yeah. Old chuck norris. Maz yeah, chuck norris. Then i played a terrorist in the tv show 24. May uhhuh. Maz and then i justii realized i was like, you know, i dont like doing these parts. Andand theres good and bad to all that, is that i said no, and then the other parts ive gotten have been all over the place, so iyou know, for example,e, in the movie the interpreter, which was a sydney pollackck film with nicoe kidman, sean p penn, i played an arabaamerican secret servivice agent. I mean, how cool is that . May yeah. Maz and my ethnicity wasnt even an issue in the movie. May right, right. Maz um, and then i dont mind i tell people i dont mind playing cab drivers or falafel shop owners or anycause i think theyre kind ofthose people exist, and ive seen them and ive met them and may yeah, theyre real folks. Maz yeah, and so, you know, if some people think, like, oh, you know, thats still stereotyping, but i go, you know what . Thats closer to where i want to be. Really, ive just drdrawn a line on the terrorist thing. May yeah, yeah, which is undersrstandable. But what do yu think nowright now, theres so much antimuslim rhetoric, right . And thats pervasive, and talk about stereotypes and, like, grouping everyone together. Its just, you know, negativity towards just that entire region. Maz its one of the dumbest things iveve seen in my lifefe. May ha ha maz i really think people are stupid when they say stuff like that. It reallyit, likei mean, i see, whether its donald trump talking about it, like, i mean, oror his followers or anybody, when theywhen you have an attack, lets say, like the San Bernardino attacks, and they pledge allegiance to isis. May mmm. Maz and then donald trump says we should shut the borders to any muslims coming in. May right. Maz uh, till we figure out whats going on. And its just iim an immigrant. I came during the iranian revolution. Thats when the hostage crisis happened. I would have been victimized, probably, under donald trump because he probably, likelets just lets just say hypothetically donald trump were president back then. May mmhmm. Maz and he said, were going to shut the doors to any muslims coming to america, uh, because iranians have taken hostages. May right. Maz well, number one, a lot of people leaving those countries people that left iran to come to america were trying to get away from that government. May absolutely. Maz we didnt support that government. May right. Maz we are a lot more proamerican or, lets say, prowestern, and we want our freedom. We came to america may which is the case with a lot of immigrants. Maz thats what the immigrants are coming for. May theyre coming to the land of milk and honey. Maz yeah. May where the opportunity and freedom maz yeah, and listen, in all honesty, we have a big hand in a lot of the disasters that are going on in the middle east. Like, if we hadnt attacked iraq to start with, a lot of the stuff might not have happened, that might not have played out the way it did. May yeah. Maz and so, when you have refugees coming to america to for an opportunity, i would say a majority of those people are coming because they love the opportunity of america. They are getting away from wars. May yeah. Maz those are people that that will be patriotic, that appreciate america. And for us to shut the door and go, no, you guys cant come in, and not look at the specifics of what happenedthe guy who carried out that act, or the orlando shooter, were born in america. May yeah. Maz uh, or were american citizens. Um, itit just itsits mindboggling to me. May it is. Um, what i found interesting is that you wrote an oped, i think it was a column, uh, where you talk about the italianamerican experience in the media. So sopranos, right . They were a bunch of gangit was about the mafia. Maz yeah. May right . But the reason why that works, that there was a balance was that there was also comedies like Everybody Loves raymond, nice italianamerican family. Maz yeah. May so you had that nice balance of good and bad, whatever. Maz yeah. May but with the middle eastern community, theres not that kind of representation. Maz well, i think theres a couple there. Theyfirst of all, um, uh, you know, i know some people were upset about the sopranos, some italians were upset about it, and like i said, you sit back and you go, well, at least you do have Everybody Loves raymond or you do have some other positive, uh, um, people in the media, whether its actors like al pacino and robert de niro. Sure, they play gangsters or what have you, but still, theyretheyre worshiped in america. May yeah. Maz so you have that going. Um, i think that the problem with with the media and middle easterners and muslims and people from that part of the world is a High Percentage of the time, when you see us, its just the negative. We dont have a sitcom, we dont have a show im not sure if the networks are ready for it. Ii dont know how it would be done. Um, there was aa show called little mosque on the prairie that was out in canada forfor a little bit, did well in canada. They tried to bring it here, it didnt work. May mmm. Maz um, i did a pilot a few years ago. Uh, it was based on a book called funny in farsi. Uh, the author is firoozeh dumas, and shed written a story about how her family immigrated to Newport Beach in the early seventies, and they were the only iranians in Newport Beach. May oh, man. Maz it was actually a funny show, and we shot the pilot andand it didnt get picked up. It was kind of like fresh off the boat, but with iranians. May right, right. Maz um, and so i think the networks are a little riskaverse when it comes to anything that might be too edgy in that way, and i think may especially now, do you think . Maz ii think so. May i do think its a worse situation now because of what we just talked about, because of all of this antimuslim rhetoric. Maz listen, i thinklisten, i mean, imagine if you had a family that were, like, a muslim family show or something, right . I think, ifif it were midseason and theyre working on it, theres probably no even things that you think are not controversial become controversial, like, for example, in my own standup, i do material about the lgbt community, and part of it is im trying to push that in front ofi know that theres, like, iranians and arabs at the show, and i try toititsmy joke is based off of, um, uh, uh, um, uh, bruce jenner having becoming caitlyn jenner. May ok. Maz and i talk about it in the material. I goi actually support it. I go, good for him. He knew he wanted to be a woman. Thats amazing. I go, i cant decide what to have for dinner; this guy knew he wanted to be a woman, right . May ha ha ha maz sobut my point i try to make in that joke is i try to talk about howi try to put it input the mirror in front of them and go, dont judge, you know, justyou know. May yeah. Maz butbut again, after the orlando shootings, that material became controversial because i knew that if i brought it up. May right. Maz people would be on edge a little bit. May right, right. Maz so if you take that now in the bigger image, Bigger Picture and you put it on a tv show, im sure the networks probably are a little wary of, like, well, what happens if we have a muslim family and then Something Like this happened . Now we got to do an episode where. May thats right. Maz the kids being bullied and, you know, so i think theyre a little wary ofof it, but may and hollywood doesnt want to take too many risks, right . Maz they dont want to. May because its all about the bottom line. Maz bottom line. May but, speaking of hollywood, youreyou made this movie. Maz absolutely. May Jimmy Vestvood. Maz yeah. Ha ha may amerikan hero, which is, you know, kind of making fun of these stereotypes, right . Maz yeah, i made a movie, uh, Jimmy Vestvood amerikan hero. I describe it as the persian pink panther meets borat. May i love it. Ha ha maz yeah, its a silly movie, you know. Iii, uh, cowrote it with a guy named amir ohebsion. We cowrote it, we coproduced it with the two of us and ray moheet, and then, um, and, uh, and i star in it. And our goal waslisten, growing up in iran, uh, like, the first 6 years of my life, but even after that, when i came to america, i was always a big fan of Peter Sellers pink panther. May great. Maz just loved them, you know . Bumblingbumbling idiot. May totally. Maz so we wanted to create a character of middle eastern descent that was a little bumbling. May ok. Maz but saves the day. May all right. Well, we have a clip. Maz oh, good. May so why dont we take a look ait . Maz ll right. Man m jamsh . Jimmy just llll me mmy. Y. Man hatyour occation . Jimmy we are t t hereo ococcu u. We on come ineace. [peoe singing in forgngn langge] man i tnk weve got our guy jimmy jmymy vesood,d, le, uh,h, clint eastodod butestvtvoo [womanauaughs] man ouou knohow w so peoplpl rn out to be as mbmb as they lo . . Jimmy ow im ining toet c crufied for th. Y ha ha , my godthat looks larious,onestl maz tnk you. Y buterewhat i didot kn. You d to crowdund. Maz e crowdeah. May tget so of the financing for this, right . Maz listen, my, uh, respect for filmmakers has gone up so high. May has it . It aint easy, is it . Maz it aint easy cause, as a standup comedian, all i doyou show up, theres a microphone, you tell your jokes. May right. Maz right . Uh, you justyou hope to, likeyou know, you do it a lot, you grow, you grow a fan base, but you just hope people show up and you tell your jokes. May yeah. Maz moviemaking is a whole other level. You write the script, you think youre done. Youre like, no, now you need the money. So then, to get the money, we went inwe started with some crowdfunding and, um, and, uh, when i first put it on, uh, uh, on indiegogo, it was indiegogo. May yeah. Maz uh, i had about, like, a hundred andi dont know 120,000 facebook fans, so i was like, well, if everyone puts a buck, we got 120,000. May right. Maz well, we put it out, and nobody was giving any money. May, laughing oh, no. Maz i think everyone was used to getting free stuff now. May oh, no. That must have been kind of crushing. Maz it was crushing. Then we look at the analytics, and i and i realized, like, 40,000 of my fans werewere egyptian, another 30,000 in jordan, and i was like, wait a minute. Thesethese people arent even real. Like, i think, ii wrotei was working with a company who was, like, helping me increase my fan base. May oh. Maz but i think that they just got some guys in egypt to just go like this. May yes oh maz you know whwhat im saying . And its funny cause may so you actually had 5 fans. Maz i had 5 fans, so i made 5. 00 and, uhno, wewe basically ended up then, uh, uh, we did a couple of fundraisers within the crowdfunding. We made, like, we made a little bit of money there. May ok. Maz and that got ourthat got ourour seed money. May ok. Maz then we got some investors to put money in, and then we made the movie and then i thought, well, thats it. Now weve made the movie. Someones going to distribute it. Then we got into a comedy festival, won a couple of comedy awards. May oh, fantastic. Maz but then we couldnt get a big distributor to help us. May oh. Maz and its funnywell, heres whats interesting. I thought the biggest, uh, um, obstacle was going to be having a movie with a middle eastern leadan american movie with a middle eastern hero. I thought that was the biggest obstacle. The biggest obstacle is just being an independent movie in this environment. May oh. Maz because youre competing against captain america. May right. Maz and then the next week, youre competing against, uh, xmen. May yes. Maz then the next week, its teenage mutant ninja turtles. And as im going through this, im like, how many superheroes do we e have . May ha ha ha maz and i was likeand what does that say about us as a society . Like, how insecure are we that we need superheroes . May we do. They need to come save the day. Maz they got to save the day. I think that our lives are so miserable that we feel like every week, theres got to be a hero that i got to go see may well, maz, you might be the next hero, then. Who knows, rigight . Maz im justi just want normal man. May yeah, well, you know, you could be the next american hero. Maz i should be, yeah. May judging from thisthis movie, but congratulations on getting it done. Maz thank you. Yeah, i know. Its huge. May and good luck with that, but it was so great having you on the show. Maz thank you, may, yeah. May thanks so much. That was really fun. Maz thank you. May all right. Well, thats it for this week. Join the conversation with us on social media. We are cctvamerica on twitter, facebook, and youtube, anand you can also watch full frame on our mobile app, available worldwide on any smartphone for free. Search cctv america in your app store to download it today. And get the latest News Headlines and connect to us on facebook, twitter, youtube, and weibo. All of our interviews can also still be found online at cctvamerica. Com. And of course, let us know what youd like us to take full frame next. Simply email us at fullframe cctvamerica. Com. Until then, im may lee in los angeles. Well see you next time. Man whoo hoo ooh, whoo hoo ooh, whoo hoo ooh,h, whoo hoo cccccccccccccc hello. Im john cleese, and i do hope you will join me for an exciting new television series; a unique e inquiry intoo human consciousness ititself. Now yourababout to seeee an extraordinary program, a studio conversation that you may never forget. 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