economy. amy: in a stunning victory, vermont senator bernie sanders wins 60% of the vote to defeat hillary clinton in new hampshire, a state she won eight years ago. sanders won nearly every demographic, including women, youth, and independents. meanwhile, donald trump easily took the republican race. >> i'm going to be the greatest jobs president that god ever created. remember that. amy: we will go to new hampshire for response from longtime radio host and former new hampshire gubernatorial candidate arnie arnesen. then to ta-nehisi coates on the presidential race and reparations. -- repations for slavery. >> there are ways you can look at the dynamics of reparation and after that, we will have some sort of groundswell in the country that will build of a move. politicians respond to pressure. i think that is what needs to happen. this is a long, long light. amy: all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. senator bernie sanders and donald trump soared to commanding victories in the first primary, the new hampshire primary tuesday, and on the democratic side sanders beat former secretary of state hillary clinton by a margin of 60% to 38%. a years ago, clinton won new hampshire, defeating senator barack obama. when polling first began in new hampshire, clinton was projected to win by as much as 50%. on tuesday, sanders beat clinton in nearly every demographic area except for senior citizens. according to exit polls, 55% of women, including 70% of women under 30, backed sanders. overall, sanders won 83% of the under 29 vote. firsts has become the jewish candidate to ever win a major presidential primary. he gave his victory speech in concord, new hampshire. >> together, we have sent the message that will echo from wall street to washington, from maine to california. [applause] government that the of our great country belongs to all of the people and not just a handful of wealthy campaign contributors and their super pac. amy: on the republican side, donald trump 135% of the vote. ohio governor john kasich placed a surprising second with 15%. followed by ted cruz, jeb bush, marcorubio, and chris christie. trump delivered his victory speech in manchester. first of all, congratulations to bernie. in all fairness, we have to congratulate him. we may not like it. but i heard parts of his speech. he wants to give away our country, folks. we're not going to let it happen. amy: we will have more on the primaries after the headlines. in a blow to the obama administration's efforts to combat climate change, the supreme court has temporarily blocked regulations to limit emissions from coal-fired power plants. the stay comes as an appeals court considers a challenge to the rules brought by corporations and 29 states. the supreme court's decision to halt the rules is reportedly unprecedented. the court has never before agreed to block a regulation before it's been reviewed by a federal appeals court. the move indicates the supreme court is likely to overturn the regulations in the future. the decision could imperil the paris climate accords since the coldplay rules formed a key part of the was commitment to cut emissions. in ns from syriaisil has claimed responsibility for a car bomb attack in the capital damascus marking the first time , it's claimed an attack inside the syrian capital. the syrian observatory for human rights said eight police officers were killed and about 20 wounded in the explosion, which hit a police officers' club. pro-kurdish activists rallied outside the new york times and marched to cnn tuesday to protest the lack of media coverage of what they say was a massacre of kurdish people by government forces in turkey. turkey says it carried out a military operation against people it identified as militants with the kurdistan workers' party, or pkk. initial state media reports put the death toll at 60, although that number was later retracted. the local governorate said 10 people were killed. but pro-kurdish lawmakers have accused turkish forces of massacring dozens of wounded civilians. protesters rallied here in new york city. i am from the people's democratic congress. the reason we're here today is because we're just trying to bring awareness to a horrific massacre that occurred over the weekend in turkey. their opening fire, just openly killing with reckless abandonment, children, women, doesn't matter who. there should be some awareness on the part of the international community that turkey -- put pressure on turkey to stop this. i mean, there are american weapons company selling weapons to the turkish army to kill these people to begin with. amy: michigan governor rick snyder will not testify before today's congressional hearing on children poisoned by lead in flint's water supply. snyder said he could not testify before the house committee hearing because he had to give a budget presentation to the state legislature. the water contamination in flint began when an unelected emergency manager appointed by governor snyder switched the city's water supply to the corrosive flint river. on tuesday, todd flood, a special counsel investigating the crisis for the attorney general in michigan suggested it , could potentially lead to criminal charges, including involuntary manslaughter. flood has donated $3000 to governor snyder's past campaigns. flint mayor karen weaver has laid out a $55 billion plan through place flint's led water service types within a year. governor snyder is expected to seek 190 finally in dollars to million to$195 address the crisis today. former greek finance minister yanis varoufakis has announced the launch of a new grassroots movement to bring together progressive groups and parties with the goal of democratizing europe. varoufakis, known for his stance against german-backed austerity in greece, made the announcement tuesday night in berlin. >> tried before a political movement that starts everywhere in europe that once come across borders independently of political dust prior political party affiliations that has one objective, to get your kids abound -- to get your kids around tables like us to discuss as europeans the common problems and what we want our common solutions to these common problems. amy: in mexico, journalist who was kidnapped from her home in veracruz monday has been found dead in the neighboring state of puebla. anabel flores salazar covered crime for the newspaper el sol de orizaba. she had a baby and a four-year-old son. her death came as the journalism advocacy group article 19 released a report saying at least 23 journalists have disappeared in mexico in the past 12 years, the highest number anywhere in the world. article 19 said there are indications of possible complicity by authorities in the recent death of flores salazar. u.s. director of national intelligence james clapper has acknowledged for the first time government agencies might use a range of home devices connected to the internet in order to conduct spying. clapper's comments relate to the so-called internet of things, an array of web-connected devices, from kids' toys to smart tvs and remotely operated thermostats. in testimony submitted to the senate, clapper said widespread vulnerabilities in the devices represent "new opportunities for our own intelligence services." the city council in ferguson, missouri, has voted to approve the broad terms of an agreement with the justice department to address rampant discrimination in the police and court system. but the council also sought a series of changes, including an additional six months to make the reforms and an exemption for outside agencies if police work is outsourced. a justice department official called the vote a "unfortunate outcome" that "creates an unnecessary delay." a justice department probe following the police shooting of michael brown found police and courts in ferguson routinely engaged in a pattern and practice of discrimination against african americans. tuesday's council vote came the same day a st. louis county jury acquitted local activist and pastor reverend osagyefo sekou of failing to comply with police during protests over michael brown's death. sekou says he knelt in prayer in front of police as they advanced on peaceful protesters. both sides have presented their closing arguments in the manslaughter trial of new york city police officer peter liang for the fatal shooting of unarmed african-american akai gurley. a jury will now consider the fate of liang, who shot gurley in a darkened stairwell of a brooklyn housing project. officer liang said he was startled by a noise and flinched, accidentally firing his gun. but assistant district attorney joseph alexis said the shooting was no accident. >> the gunned it. just go off -- the gunned it just not the law. the officer took his finger [indiscernible] put his finger on the trigger. he points the gun directly in the direction where the sound was any fired. he shot. in the shot he fired when off a wall, is no accident that it hit off the wall steps away from where akai gurley stood. that no accident that bullet ripped through his heart. amy: a black lives matter activist has shot himself to death at the entrance to the ohio statehouse. marshawn mccarrell was 23 years old. he had mccarrell organized against the police shooting of michael brown in ferguson and worked to aid the homeless, after he himself was homeless for three months. his last post on twitter said he wanted to let the record show that he urinated on the statehouse "before i left." an actor and designer who follows the sikh religion and was barred from boarding a flight for refusing to remove his turban says the airline, aeromexico, has issued a directive to staff on religious sensitivity. the move follows an outcry after waris ahluwalia was prevented from flying to the united states from mexico. ahluwalia said he blames u.s. transportation authorities, not the airline. >> no part of the is angry at the aeromexico gate agents. they did not know. this is an issue that they did not know how to deal with. they are sending -- this is a flight that goes back to america. so it comes in to the jurisdiction of the tsa. the tsa needs to make clear guidelines for foreign airports on how to deal with sikh travelers as well as any traveler that has, you know, religious articles of faith. inigo and in the vermont capital montpelier, community members shut down an eminent domain proceeding that would have helped pave the way for a gas pipeline by breaking into song. ♪> amy: the protesters kept singing, and the hearing was adjourned, stalling efforts by vermont gas to seize land from claire broughton, a 77-year-old resident omonkton, vermont. proteste say the pipeline would fuel global warming by carrying gas extracted through hydraulic fracturing, or fracking. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. senator bernie sanders and donald trump soared to commanding victories in the new hampshire primaries tuesday. trump won 35% of the vote. ohio governor john kasich placed a surprising second with 15%, followed by ted cruz, jeb bush, marco rubio, and chris christie. in the democratic race, sanders beat former secretary of state hillary clinton by a margin of 60% to 38%. eight years ago, clinton won new hampshire defeating senator , barack obama. when polling first began in new hampshire, clinton was projected to win by as much as 50%, but sanders has steadily chipped away at her support. on tuesday, sanders beat clinton in nearly every demographic area except for senior citizens. and families earning over $200,000 a year. according to exit polls, 55% of women, including 70% of women under 30, backed the vermont senator. overall sanders won 83% of the , under 29 vote. by winning new hampshire, sanders becomes the first jewish candidate to ever win a major presidential primary. he gave his victory speech in concord, new hampshire. >> what began last week in iow with voters here in new hampshir confirmonight i nothin short of the beginning of a political revolution. [applause] it is -- it is a political revolution that will bring tens of millions of our people together. it will bring together working people who have given up on the political process. it will bring together young people who had never participated in the political process. it will bring together blacks and whites, latinos, asian ,mericans, native americans male and female, straight and gay, people who were born in america and people who immigrated here. we will all come together to say loudly and clearly that the government of our great nation belongs to all of us, not just a few wealthy campaign contributors. that is what this campaign is about. that is what the political revolution is about. so, new hampshire, thank you -- n and now it is on [applause] hampshire.new and now it is on to nevada, south carolina, and beyond. inigo vermont senator sanders speaking at a high school in new hampshire. speaking in hooksett, new hampshire, hillary clinton congratulated senator sanders before describing herself as "the best change-maker." looking ahead to the upcoming races in south carolina and nevada, clinton said sanders' call for cracking down on wall street is not enough. >> we also have to break through the barriers of bigotry. african-american parents should not have to worry their children will be harassed, humiliated, even shot because of the color of their skin. immigrant families should not have to lie awake at night listening for knock on the door. lgbt americans should not be fired from their jobs because of who they are and who they love. [applause] and let's finally deliver something long overdue, equal pay for women in this country. people anywhere in america are held back by injustice, that demands action. that is why i believe so strongly that we have to keep up with every fiber of our being, the argument for the campaign for human rights, human rights as women's rights, human rights as gay-rights, human rights as asker rights, human rights voting rights, human rights across the board for every single american. amy: hillary clinton speaking from new hampshire after her major defeat by vermont senator bernie sanders. when we come back from break, we go to manchester, new hampshire, where we will be joined by the longtime radio and tv talkshow host arnie arnesen. stay with us. ♪ [music break] amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. by arnieined now arnesen, a longtime radio and tv host in new hampshire. democratic nominee for governor in 1992. she ran for congress in 1996. it for we talk about republican race, let's talk about this historic new hampshire democratic primary. you have senator bernie sanders trouncing hillary clinton 60% to 38%. he swept in every category. the only two categories he did not sweep in, were senior citizens and families that made more than $200,000 per year. ?he significance >> first of all, every newspaper in the state, basically major newspaper, endorsed hillary clinton. every major elected official endorsed hillary clinton. this is an earthshaking moment. it basically says in the message that the establishment, that the leaders are out of touch, that there is a sense of frustration, that people feel not only their not being heard, but that the idea of an criminal change doesn't fix it anymore. it is code for wall street. that is the most important thing you need to know. that is what it is about. donald trump and bernie sanders tap into that anger. who gets spelled out? they did. you still running in place? they are. jobs are going overseas. it was an amazing turnout come especially in places like the north country of new hampshire, which are white, unemployed for the most part, or underemployed workers. foras a very safe place conservatives and republicans. you saw enormous voter turnout with working people saying, no, establishment, you have not heard us. no, party structures, you have not heard us. we are ready for the change that bernie was talking about. i just think it not only resonates, but it has to clarify the democratic national committee. they are out of touch as well as their chosen leaders. inigo arnie arnesen, you know both bernie sanders and hillary clinton, not only did she -- >> very well. amy: not only in new hampshire, but she of the endorsement of the establishment figures in vermont as well. i mean, both the governor, peter shumlin, as well as senior senator patrick leahy of the former governor madeleine cunanan and yet -- even in his home state -- >> let me just say something. amy, those people endorsed at a very early stage in the campaign. if you look at when someone made the decision, ted leahy -- by the way, congressman peter welch did not endorse anyone. they endorsed very early. they thought bernie would not gain the traction he did. they're probably having a come to jesus moment right now when they see the former governor go on. inigo howard dean as well. >> now. this is not surprising. this is about establishment politics. what bernie sanders showed, even donald trump has shown, is that this is no longer a time for establishment politics, that there is a problem. there is a disconnect between what they do and what they think and what the american people are feeling. bernie captain to that, not just in new hampshire, but around the country. i think it is not only a message of change, but it is a message of incrementalism that actually not only is not working, but here's the most important thing, the reason we're doing this and criminal change? when you see so much money and politics, once -- they're not only buying interest, but they're making sure they worked hard the change. they're holding back the change. that is what they want. they want to make sure it is little tiny steps that they direct. and bernie says, you know what? those little tiny steps are not moving up in the right direction. in a timely fashion. we must be nimble and we must move forward. you saw that would bernie sanders. in an interesting way, donald trump as well. they cap into that same vein and desire for something more important and moving us forward. amy: both bernie sanders and hillary clinton used their speeches last night to draw ideological distinctions between their two campaigns. including differences around the issue of campaign finance reform. clocks what the american people are saying -- and by the way, i hear this not just from progressives, but from conservatives and from moderates, is that we can no longer continue to have a campaign finance system in which wall street and the billionaire class are able to buy elections. [applause] americans, no matter what their political view may be, understand that that is not what democracy is about. about. what oligarchy is that. will not allow i do not have a super pac and i do not want a super pac. >> you have heard a lot about washington and about wall street. now, senator sanders and i both want to get secret, unaccountable money out of politics. and let's remember, citizens united, one of the worst supreme court decisions in our countries history was actually a case about a right-wing attack on me and my campaign. a right-wing organization to aim at me and ended up damaging our entire democracy. so, yes, you're not going to find anybody more committed to aggressive campaign finance reform than me. amy: hillary clinton and bernie sanders last night in new hampshire, giving their, well, in hillary clinton's case, her speech before she went on to south carolina, her concession speech. of course, and bernie sanders case, he trounced clinton 60% of 30%. arnie arnesen with us, former gubernatorial candidate in new hampshire, longtime radio and tv host, speaking to us from manchester. talk about each of them personally, how you know them. you have known them for decades. and also, address -- >> i've known them -- amy: go ahead. >> i'm so glad you gave that clip of hillary clinton and bernie sanders. in a way, contributions are about ownership. let's remind everyone. what bernie said is, i want to be owned by the american people. i want to receive little contributions, a sense that you are all engaged because you all have a piece of the action. what did hillary clinton say? listen, amy, she was to get rid of that dark money, that transparent money. she doesn't want to get to go -- get rid of the big contributions of wall street, she just was to make those big contributions you have to make sure they're done in a transparent money. as used to like the contributions. notice what she said, bernie talked about all of us, little contributions. what did hillary do yet though she did not say no to the big contributions, just say no to the super pacs and the dark money where there is more than a problem with the dark money, there's a problem with major people cutting big checks to basically control their access to politicians. very different speech. yes, i know bernie. yes, i know hillary. i used to be a radio talkshow host in white river junction vermont when bernie sanders was the only congressman in vermont. i have known him for 25 years. we have been engaged on so many levels and when i ran for governor and ran for congress, it was a kind of agenda that bernie sanders would be talking progressives, both liberals. he might've been a democratic socialist, but you know what? we kind of walked on the same drumbeat. we would always communicate. hillary clinton i've known since 1991. you know why you go i ran for governor when bill and hillary were running as copresident, two for the price of one. i was the first woman to get the nomination for governor in new hampshire history. hillary clinton and bill clinton used to follow me into the rooms, amy, because i got a bigger crowd because they were the third string democrats that nobody expected to win the nomination. so i know them. i have run with clinton in 1992, iran with clinton in 1996. i am wanted tell you, it was always an interesting conversation when i was running. when i was running a 1992, bill clinton was running on a middle-class tax cut. arnie arnesen was running on tax reform and tax equity. he was encouraged not to stand next to me. in 1996, i am running for commerce again, bill clinton is running, i'm running against the defense of marriage act, something he had embraced. welfare reform, something he embraced. it is been an interesting dynamic. look at the difference. i end up in an interesting way not necessarily walking lockstep with bill clinton, but the things i think don't relate to the american people, and today what you so with bernie sanders last night, is a lot of things that arnie arnesen was saying a 1992 in 1996, coming out of the mouth of the senator from vermont. from aunt, the size of a suburb, that lives next door to new hampshire but new hampshire no stepping about vermont. your thing we know about is that we think we live in massachusetts. it is remarkable. amy: before we move on to the republicans, i wanted to ask you about the issue of hillary the firstnning to be woman president. this is an issue that is also very close to your heart. >> very. amy: and yet, she did not take the women category and women under 30 voted for -- in the 70%ary, voted for sanders for sanders. >> right. there are two things any to talk about. one, the horrific thing that happened over the we can with gloria steinem and madeleine albright where they said stuff that was just so incredibly offensive and foolish. i tweeted out as soon as i heard the comments by gloria steinem and operator said, oh, my god, hillary clinton is bringing the worst out of the women i admire. that is what i tweeted. and more important than that, it is not just the statements that were made that somehow say to women, you have an obligation to vote for hillary clinton, this is your job, but i want to remind everyone, in the state of new hampshire where hillary clinton is running in the first primary, this is a state that has elected women to every single major political office in the state. governor, congress, speaker of the house, president of the senate, head of the new hampshire supreme court. we have seen the good, the bad, and the ugly of women. we now have experience with that. and that is in some ways been liberating. we were being chastised to vote for hillary clinton? we now feel we can step back, we can say, you know what? this is about the leader of the free world. this is about the leader of this country. what is wrong with the leadership we have elected in the past? maybe it is time for new leadership and new leadership is not a function of gender. amy: just to clarify, gloria steinem has apologized for suggesting that young women -- she was speaking with belmar a new show -- only support democratic candidate bernie sanders because the boys are with bernie. she has apologized for that. and madeleine albright has drawn attention for saying there is a special place in hell for women who don't help each other. but i want to turn to the republican race. donald trump 135% of the vote in new hampshire. ohio governor john kasich, 50% followed by ted, jeb bush, marco rubio, and chris christie missed out on home to new jersey, reconsidering their race. trump delivered his victory speech in manchester where you are. >> i am going to be the greatest jobs president that god ever created. remember that. believe those phony numbers when you hear 4.9 and 5% unemployment. 20%, 29ers are probably percent, as high as 35%. in fact, even heard recently 42%. do you think we would have gatherings like this if we -- if we had 5% unemployment, do you think we would have these gatherings? amy: john kasich celebrated his second place finish in new hampshire primary. i think he held something like 106 town halls in new hampshire, telling a crowd in concord that his campaign had overcome the darkness in politics. >> we never went negative because we have more good to sell than to spend our time being critical of somebody else. [applause] and maybe, maybe, just maybe, at a time when, clearly, change is in the air, maybe, just maybe, we are turning the page on the dark part of american politics because tonight, the light overcame the darkness of negative campaigns. [applause] and you made it happen. amy: john kasich and donald trump, number one donald trump, number two, john kasich, as they head to south carolina. bernie, today, is in new york. arnie arnesen, the republican primary, and it's significance? >> it is incredible list of again, it is a message to the gop that it is time to reevaluate we're talking about. donald trump is talking to the economic angst of american workers. there's no question about a post of the american people are frustrated and frightened. and he definitely has a conversation with them. i want to taste something that was interesting. i had a guy that was in the trumpet celebration and he had a chance to 25 people who were basically supporting donald trump. he was asking them why. do you know what word never came up as it related to donald trump? the word "conservative." they never use that word in connection with donald trump. they used the word "jobs," and "anger" and "great." "they hate the institutions." "conservative" associated with donald trump never came up. that is a powerful message to the republican party. they have wrapped themselves up in that word as if it has and resonance, but in that room last night, it was not there. donald trump has done something that no one quite understood. you mentioned john kasich did 100 town halls. he has been in people's livings room -- living rooms and people's schools. what is interesting about donald trump, donald trump, amy, has been in people's living rooms for years. it is called "the apprentice." people d't understand when you are on e tv and in someone's room, y correctelationsps witholks. donald trump h done the living room, but just not in a way that the party is expected. when he started doing these huge events they said, in new hampshire, it will never resonate. after all, he hasn't kissed the baby's and been an hour diners. you know what? what they did not understand is the kind of relationship he already had as he started his presidential campaign, and then throw in all of the ridiculous free media that the national media and the cable news outlets dave him, he had more free media in human any candidate history. and that is the other problem. they brought him into everyone's living rooms because he is a ratings god. was that good for the party? absolutely not. was a good for democracy? probably not. that we can be surprised about the numbers he produced. yeah, john kasich came in second, but a distant second. despite all of his work in the fact that he is kind of the happy warrior. amy: and the xenophobia, the racism, the barring muslims, the talking about mexicans as rapists, did this resonate in new hampshire, one of the whitest states in the country? >> well, a little point of information, everyone. new hampshire was the last state in the nation to embrace martin luther king's birthday. can i repeat that? the last state in the nation. can i also repeat that our democratic governor was the only democratic governor who said no to the syrian refugees? you see, the democratic governor knows her state. and donald trump, he knows how to play some of the it have surveys, unfortunately, like a fiddle. were they offended by those comments? they cheered him. amy: arnie arnesen, thank you for being with us, longtime radio and tv host in new hampshire. she was the democratic nominee for governor in 1992. 20 years ago this next week, she was the first guest on the first episode of democracy now! it is great to be with you again, arnie. >> thank you so much. amy: thank you. when we come back, ta-nehisi coates joins us in studio. stay with us. ♪ [music break] amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. as we talk more about the presidential race, we're joined by the acclaimed writer ta-nehisi coates. his book recently won the national book award for nonfiction. he has written some of the most discussed articles on the presidential race, looking at vermont senator bernie sanders, and his position on reparations. he wrote the articles after sanders appeared at the black and brown forum in iowa and said he did not support reparations for slavery because it is too "divisive in issue." >> a lot of african-americans are starting to call for separations for the many years of stolen labor, is that something with support as president? >> no, i don't think so. likely getting through congress is nil. i think would be divisive. i think the real issue is look at the poverty rate among the african-american community when we look at the high unemployed rate within the african-american committee and incarceration rate , never a lot of work to do. i think what we should be talking about is making massive investments in rebuilding our cities, creating millions of decent paying jobs, and making public colleges and universities free, working on child careful to basically, targeting our federal resources to the air is needed the most and where it is due to the most are in poverty communities can often african-american and latino. amy: that was bernie sanders speaking at the black and brown forum in january. hillary clinton also said at the foreign she did us support reparations for slavery, following the form, ta-nehisi coates challenged sanders position in an article for the atlantic, entitled "why precisely is bernie sanders against reparations?" in the piece, he wrote -- "unfortunately, sanders's radicalism has failed in the ancient fight against white supremacy. this is the 'class first' approach, originating in the myth that racism and socialism are necessarily incompatible." the piece has sparked both praise and controversy from across the political spectrum. in one response, university of illinois professor cedric johnson wrote in a piece for jacobin magazine -- "coates's latest attack on sanders, and willingness to join the chorus of red-baiters, has convinced me that his particular brand of antiracism does more political harm than good, further mystifying the actual forces at play and the real battle lines that divide our world." this comes as both the hillary clinton and bernie sanders campaigns shift attention away from new hampshire toward south carolina, where black voters could decide the primary. well, to discuss the 2016 presidential campaign and the case for reparations, we're joined now by ta-nehisi coates, the national correspondent at the atlantic where he writes about culture, politics, and social issues. he is the author of, "between the world and me," which is a finalist for a national book critics circle award. he won the george polk award for 2014 his atlantic cover story, "the case for reparations." it is great to have you back. congratulations on this new nomination of the national book riddick circle award. critics circle award. before we go to the issue of reparations, your response to what just took place in new hampshire? contests, first two and two of the whitest states in the country. >> i don't know that i have anything particular more intelligent to add. like everybody else, i'm stunned, you know. amy: what are you stunned by? >> i think of you, this year ago, isil he would not have expected a devout socialist to be putting up his number's and contending for the democratic party nomination. awesome.nk it is it is great. like a lot of people, i'm concerned about senator clinton's record and very concerned about where her positions were in the 1990's when we had some of the most disgusting legislation in terms of criminal justice really in this country's history. i get really concerned when i see 70 taking $600,000 in takingg fees -- somebody $600,000 in speaking fees. so having options, not having this be a coronation, i think is a good thing. i am stunned, but pleasantly stunned. amy: so talk about your critique of bernie sanders and his opposition to reparations, but saying the money has to be put into black and brown communities in terms of jobs and have got to fight economic inequality. the second part, what you just played, i completely support. one thing we have to understand is -- i will put this in two parts. first of all, the injuries that african-americans experience are not just the injuries of class, not just a matter of being impoverished. we are particular policies in this country that resulted in the larger share of poverty that we have an african-american communities. the issue of class does not break down the same way an african american communities as others. you cannot make a direct comparison between middle-class african-americans and middle-class white americans, affluent african-americans and affluent white americans. the amount of wealth tends to be national step the neighborhood that black people tend to live in tends to be of lesser quality. the institutions and services the black folks receive from the government tend to be lesser quality. the notion you can have an all-encompassing policy, universal policy, to really address what is very specific injuries, i think is wrong. secondly, folks need to be aware of the history of how racism actually injures universalist policy. every time we've had to put forth universal social policy in this country, at every moment we've had to contend with the fact there is a relatively large amount, relatively large amount of public -- i black people being included in those policies, too. it likely would be true with president sanders, too. problem remains the color. >> it remains with us. thinking we will get away from it by changing the subject are talking a different way, just don't think will work. amy: i want to go back to 2008, cnn correspondent asking then senator barack obama about his view on reparations. to reparations, we do take it a step further in terms of apologizing for slavery or offering reparations to very is groups? >> i have said in the past and i will repeat again that the best reparations we can provide are good schools in the inner city and jobs for people who are unemployed. that strategies that invest in lifting people out of the legacy of slavery and jim --w, but that have brought allowed us to build coalitions to get these things done, i think that is the best strategy. the fact is, dealing with some discriminationf is going to cost billions of dollars. and we're not going to be able to have that kind of resource allocation unless all americans feel they are invested in making this stuff happen. i am much more interested in talking about, how do we get every child to learn? how do we get every person health care? how do we make sure that everybody has a job? that every senior citizen can retire with dignity and respect? amy: that was senator obama in 2008. >> it makes me sad to see that. i really, really want to believe him and to believe senator sanders. but throughout american history, it is been difficult to deliver on those promises that he said. every person a job, every person a quality education, health care. while avoiding the issue of white supremacy. i don't know how you deal with that. we just went through an era in the housing crisis -- it sounds like a hit everyone at the same way. it did not. mortgage companies in this country that deliver league targeted middle-class african-american it roots and deliberately gave them predatory loans, despite the fact, even when you look at the conditions of the folks who were borrowing money, they looked on paper just like other why families, they were targeted because they were black communities. how we get past this -- i just don't know. amy: you write this remarkable peas for the atlantic, the case for reparations. you originally were not for reparations yourself. >> i was not. i believe what he said. amy: what changed you? >> i am encouraged to read and research and there is a great deal of research, for instance, a new don't legislation, which we're sort of repeating ourselves right now, and a great deal of research on neighborhood poverty and i was a bridge of rotation of the legacy of slavery, which shows exactly how much wealth was extracted out of the community. once i begin to see what supremacy and anti-black racism, a specific thing, not just a matter of black people being accidentally poured, but a spific tnd in amecan hiory thats with uup until today, ibecame f difficult to hold onto universalist solution. amy: i want to turn to a clip from "behind the news" last month. this is adolph reed, the noted african-american public intellectual and professor of political science at the university of pennsylvania. he was speaking with radio host doug henwood. >> you can go down the sanders platform issue by issue and ask, how is this not a black issue? how is a $15 minimum wage not a black issue? how is public works employment, massive public works employment programs not a black issue? how is free college or free will occur education not a black issue? and on down the line, right? aspectne head scratching of this is, what do people like coates imagine is to be gained by calling the program are calling the redistribution racial and calling it reparations? >> i have not talked to ta-nehisi coates, but i imagine he and those who call for reparations would respond by hang that it is meant to address ones that were specifically racial in their origin, starting with slavery, carrying on through jim crow, redlining structure today of the criminal justice system. these are all highly racialized injuries and only highly racialized remedy would be appropriate to cure it. >> i think the logic fails on its own terms. is, even for the sake of argument that the injuries were in their origins highly and extensively racialized, it does not thessarily follow from that remedy has to be in the same coin. -- i have not seen coates well, have not seen an argument from him or others that make an assertion i surely argue for -- actually argue for. to give a concrete and pragmatic exhalation of how that works. that is to say, how or what the response to atonement, suppose, likeast harms would look and what they imagine -- yeah, well, you can tell i am flustered. what they imagine the response would actually be. amy: that is university of pennsylvania professor, public intellectual adolph reed, being interviewed by doug henwood. your response, ta-nehisi coates? >> he made three points but i want to respond to the last one, which is really, really important. we haven't seen anyone make an argument for imagine what reparations would look like. i have written very specifically about what it would look like in my case. in terms of the case of reparations, i focused on housing. and the problem done through redlining, which is not -- it was a racist form of damage. we need to be clear about that. it was specifically -- it specific damage to black people because they were black. in the case of red binding, we have the maps. we know were damaged. we know who lived there. in cases of, for instance, the g.i. bill or the loans that black people were not allowed to get, we have folks sekou go before claims office and say, i try to do this and it was denied to me. ofdon't have a problem knowing where folks live or what communities were affected. i would target those communities and those specific people, given they could prove what happened to them. that is a limited case of reparations. but it is what i focused on in terms of housing. and someone can make the case for reparations in terms of other things, education, health care, the criminal justice, and could argue for specific solutions in the same way. the second thing, professor reid, whom i have great respect for, read a lot of when i was at howard university in college in his critiques of public intellectuals, but when he says, what is to be gained by calling reparations, it is the truth. that is what it is. in injury was done, it is no different than any other injury done to any other group of people in the world. it is not a political tactic, it is what it is. amy: what are the president to look at? >> in the case of reparations, a look at the grand president of the holocaust. and specifically, how reparations were given to israel and recompense, specifically for folks who had to leave the areas when the nazis canaan. they basically sold them goods that israel used to build themselves up. that is a country to country transfer. it doesn't necessarily -- amy: through many holocaust survivors. and there are still individual reparations being made to this very day for holocaust survivors. in this country, we've had reparations for specific black people. for the crimes of john birch in chicago. in north carolina, and the crimes in terms of the campaign that was made down there. the state of oklahoma during the told the race riot admitted they droppedetrated and bombs on black people in black communities. they declined to give reparations, but was really, really clear. i think it is important -- we're talking about specific people ofe, not some vague mass african americans. these are specific people who have been injured by specific policies who deserve a specific remedy and not a universalist one that applies to people who may or may not have been injured. amy: your senator obama before he was president saying, not exactly reparations, but these other issues of equality. hillary clinton basically saying the same and bernie sanders saying the same. you're focusing on bernie sanders. >> i just expected more, and maybe i'm wrong for that. i am thrilled to see an actual radical, left-wing, uniquely left-wing option the democratic party. if we can't get the left -- if we on the left can't embrace this idea that black folks have been specifically injured and there should be specific remedies for that injury, we have no hope. we really, really have no hope. forgive me for expecting more of senator sanders then i expect of senator clinton, but i do. killerwant to go to mike, hip-hop artist who you have a love affair going. you both have great respect for each other. last month, he took to twitter -- he introduced bernie sanders at a big rally in atlanta. he took to twitter to defend sanders after our guest, -- after you criticized sanders for not supporting reparations. killer mike tweeted -- "the truth of my support is this. i am pro reparations for any people used and abused like blacks have been here and other places." and, "i believe the government of this country will never do this but if i can have a potus who will be open to a federal loan program to help" and "candidate that i think would be most sensitive to the very accomplishable goal and the other things that can/will help black people is sanders." that is killer mike. >> there is very little in a statement that i disagree with. one can be very, very critical of senator sanders on this specific issue. one can say senator sanders should have more explicit antiracist policy within his racial justice platform, not just more general stuff is still cast a vote for senator sanders and feel that senator sanders is the best option that we have in the race. i just because that is he you're going to vote for doesn't mean you have to agree with everything they say. amy: will you be voting for senator sanders? >> i will be avoiding senator sanders. i have tried to avoid this question but, yes, i will be voting for senator sanders. i am trying to separate that from my role as a private citizen and a journalist. i don't think much is a contest by ducking the question. yes, i will vote for senator sanders. amy: and your son is outside the studio. thank you, ta-nehisi coates, for joining us. i've a few more questions and we will post it at democracynow.org . ta-nehasi coates, national correspondent at the atlantic, where he writes about culture, politics, and social issues. we will link to his piece in the atlantic about reparations and wrote the book, "between the world and me." democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail your comments to [email protected] or mail them to democracy