>> as two american missionaries are released from the hospital after being cured of ebola, after being given external drugs, the death toll in west africa nears 1500. we spend the hour with partisan health cofounder dr. paul farmer on what can be done to stop the epidemic and what it means for public health system in africa. , which isla outbreak the largest so far in the history that we know about, is merely reflection of the public health crisis in africa. it is about the lack of staff, stuff, and systems that could protect populations, particularly those living in poverty, from outbreaks like this or other outbreaks. >> senegal has just shut down its border with ginny. south africa has been on citizens traveling from guinea. iberia and sierra leone. library police opened fire on protesters in monrovia after they quarantined residents in an effort to keep the spread of ebola. all of that and more coming up. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. governor jay nixon has ordered the national guard to leave ferguson missouri as peaceful protests continue over the police killing of unarmed black teenager michael brown. brown's funeral is scheduled for monday morning and expected to draw a huge crowd. on thursday, missouri state senator jamilah nasheed was threatened with arrest as she sought to deliver a 70,000 signatures petition to prosecutor bob mcculloch, be replaced.o mcculloch has extensive family ties to law enforcement. his father was a police officer killed by an african-american. on thursday, attorney general eric holder assured residents the federal probe of the shooting will be independent. >> the national outcry we have seen speaks to a sense of mistrust and mutual suspicion that can take hold in the relationship between law enforcement and certain communities. i wanted the people of ferguson to know i personally understood that mistrust and one of them to know while so much else may be uncertain, this attorney general and this department of justice stands with the people of ferguson. >> michael brown's parents said they plan to march this weekend in new york city to demand justice for eric garner. garner died last month after police in staten island placed him in a banned chokehold, then 1010 to the sidewalk while he repeatedly said he could not breathe. he was accused of selling loose cigarettes. thousands are expected to attend saturday's protest led by reverend al sharpton. garner's death is one of several that have brought police tactics to the forefront in cities across the country. in los angeles, residents have mobilized around the case of say abrego, who witnesses he was beaten by police for 10 minutes before he died. ford, whosezell family says he was unarmed and lying on the ground when he was shot dead. thursday is part of a national day of rage against police brutality. >> officers killing people that have no guns and are illegal to do, they should go to jail just like everybody else should go to jail. it's not fair for them to not be in jail while we're out here protesting. >> in ohio, one of two police officers involved in the fatal shooting of a young black man inside a walmart in beaver creek is back on the job. when the officers confronted john crawford, he was reportedly holding a bb gun, which was for sale at the store. the mother of crawford's two infant children told the local paper she was on the phone with crawford and heard him say "it's not real" before police opened fire. a special grand jury will convene in the case next month. israel is continuing its military assault on the gaza strip. the palestinian news agency reports five people have an killed today and at least 38 on thursday, including three senior hamas military commanders. since the offensive began six weeks ago, at least 2087 palestinians have died, the majority civilians, while 67 people have died on the israeli side -- all but three of them soldiers. the renewed strikes have sent residents of gaza fleeing to u.n. charter said again after some had returned to shattered neighborhoods. works every day there are people -- men, women, elderly and children, getting killed. everybody. they mock us by giving us a bit of food to distract us. they are killing us and bearing us at the same time. >> their reports hamas militants have executed 18 palestinians accused of being collaborators with israel, including seven reportedly killed in a public square. the obama administration is continuing to ramp up its rhetoric against the islamic state on the group's release of a video showing the beheading of journalist james foley. on thursday, the chair of the joint chiefs of staff, martin's mc, hinted at possible intervention in syria. >> this is an organization that has an apocalyptic end of days strategic vision which will eventually have to be defeated. jerk question, can they be defeated without addressing that part of their organization which resides in syria? the answer is no. that will have to be answered on both sides. and that will come and we have a coalition in the region that takes on the task of defeating isis over time. >> general dempsey was also asked directly whether the campaign against the islamic state, also known as isis, would require airstrikes. >> it requires a righty of instruments, only one small part is airstrikes. i am not predicting those will occur in syria. it requires the application of all of the tools of national diplomatic information, military. talks the united states has launched at least 90 airstrikes against islamic state militants in iraq since the bombardment began two weeks ago. on thursday, globalpost released the full text of the last e-mail james foley's family received from the isis militants, which calls foley's execution a "direct result of your transgressions towards us." "you and your citizens will pay the price of your bombings," they wrote. the united nations says the death toll from the three-year civil war in syria has topped 191,000. that is an increase of more than 90,000 since last july. in her final speech before the un security council, outgoing u.n. high commissioner for human rights navi pillay criticized the council's response to syria and other conflicts. >> short-term to political considerations and national interests nearly defined have repeatedly taken precedence over intolerable human suffering and great breaches and long-term threats to international peace and security. i firmly believe that greater responses by this council would have saved hundreds of thousands of lives. >> two american missionaries sickened with ebola while in liberia have recovered from the virus and are being discharged from hospital in georgia. was released on tuesday, dr. kenneth brantly spoke before he left on thursday. >> above all, i'm forever thankful to god for sparing my life and i'm glad for any attention my sickness has attracted to the plight of west africa in the midst of this epidemic. please, continue to pray for liberia and the people of west africa and encourage those in positions of leadership and influence to do everything possible to bring this ebola outbreak to an end. thank you. >> both the american missionaries received an external drug called zmapp, which has also been given to three liberian doctors and a spanish priest who died. the drug maker says supplies are now exhausted. at least 1350 people have died in the worst ebola epidemic in history. we will have more with dr. paul farmer after the headlines. the world health organization says at least 70 people have died in the northern democratic republic of congo from an outbreak of an ebola-like illness. while the symptoms of the two illnesses are similar, experts say the death rate for the other illness is far lower than that of ebola. a russian aid convoy has begun crossing into eastern ukraine and heading toward the besieged city of luhansk. while at least one part of the convoy had cleared customs, the trucks appear ejected part of without authorization from ukraine. the convoy has been held up at the border for more than a week undergoing inspections. ukraine has accused russia of using it as cover to mount a military incursion, while russia carryhe trucks humanitarian aid for residents in dire need. in yemen, supporters of the shiite houthi rebels have begun massing and the capital as talks continue between the government and the rebels leader in the north. today marks the deadline issued by the houthis for yemen to roll prices and in fuel to dissolve the government, which they say is corrupt. tens of thousands of students marched in the chilean capital santiago thursday to demand free education. police fired tear gas and water cannons as a small number of protesters threw rocks and sticks. student protests erupted in chile in 2011 over demands for free and quality education for all. president michele that shall it has vowed to reform the system, but students are demeaning a greater voice in the process. a congressional watchdog says the prisoner exchange that freed army sergeant bowe book all from the taliban was illegal. the government accountable the office says the obama administration failed to give congress enough notice before transferring five guantánamo prisoners in the swap. bergdahl has returned to active duty with a desk job at a base in texas amidst a probe into his capture. his attorney says he wants to attend college and reenter civilian life. the justice department has unveiled a more than $16.6 billion settlement with bank of america over its sale of toxic residential mortgage backed securities, or rmbs. attorney general eric holder said the deal is the largest civil settlement with a single entity in history. thehe support of settlement, bank of america has acknowledged in years leading up to the financial crisis that demonstrated our economy into the -- devastated our economy, it, merrill lynch, and countrywide sold millions of dollars whose quality and levels at risk they knowingly misrepresented to investors and to the united states government. >> the settlement includes $7 billion in relief measures for homeowners, meaning the bank's actual burden is likely far less than the record total announced. critics say very few homeowners will actually benefit compared to the millions who lost their homes to foreclosure during the financial crisis. hasamana brooklyn, new york a what hundred $25,000 settlement in a federal lawsuit over his right to document police activity. according to the "new york daily news," date george used his cellphone camera to document a police stop and frisk in 2012. after he advised the young people who had been frisked to get the officer's numbers next time, george said he was pulled by police from his car and said "now were going to give you what you deserve for meddling in our business." following last month's fatal arrest of eric garner, which was caught on cellphone video, the nypd sent a memo reminding officers the public has a right to record police actions. , who shot thea video of garner's arrest o andrta's wife, have both reported being harassed by police and arrested on unrelated charges since the video was released. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. >> welcome to all our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. we turn now to the ebola outbreak in west africa that has killed nearly 1400 people across liberia, sierra leone, guinea, and the jury -- a jury. widely lead toh organ ithe tals be higher. the who has warned countries hit by the outbreak are starting to suffer shortages of fuel, food, and basic supplies after airlines and shipping companies suspended services to the region. >> senegal has just shut its border with guinea. south africa has and noncitizens traveling from guinea, liberia, and sarah lyons. the hardest hit has been liberia where at least 576 people have died. on wednesday, police opened fire on protesters in the west point neighborhood of liberia's capital city monrovia after they quarantined residents without any notice in an effort to stop the spread of ebola. a 15-year-old boy was shot in the lead. residence at the protest was sparked by the police's heavy-handed presence in the quarantine area. this is a local resident. >> [indiscernible] it is bad. it is very, very bad. >> the ebola outbreak has also generated an international debate over the use of experimental drugs to treat the disease. three weeks ago, the first two doses of an experimental serum known as zmapp went to two american missionaries, dr. kent brantly and nancy writebol who had contracted the disease in liberia and returned to the united states for treatment. both were released from the emory university hospital this week. doctor confirmed they no longer pose a health risk to the public. >> i am pleased to announce that dr. brantly is being discharged from the hospital after a rigorous course of treatment and thorough testing. we have determined in conjunction with the centers for disease control and state health departments that dr. brantly has recovered from the ebola virus infection and that he can return to his family, to his community, and to his life without public health concerns. >> today we spend the hour with a doctor who has devoted his life to improving the health of the world's poorest and most vulnerable people. yes travel the world that only treating impoverished patients, but also challenging entire health care systems. his name is dr. paul farmer. he's an infectious disease dr. as well as a medical anthropologist. ago, he helped found the charity partners in health, an international nonprofit organization that provides direct health care services to those who are sick and living in poverty. in 1987nded the group to deliver health care to people in haiti. he now works across the world mexico asrwanda, and well as siberia. dr. paul farmer is a professor at harvard medical school and chief of the division of global health equity at brigham and women's hospital in boston. to 2012, dr. farmer served as the uaw special envoy for haiti working under former president bill clinton. he currently serves as the special advisor to the united nations on community based medicine and is also on the board of the clinton health access initiative. dr. paul farmer is author of a number of books including, "infections and inequalities: the modern plaques." and most recently, "in the company of the poor: conversations with dr. paul farmer and fr. gustavo gutierrez." paul farmer recently returned from rwanda and sierra leone. we welcome you back to democracy now! talk about what we should understand about this outbreak of ebola. >> i think the most important thing to understand is that this is a reflection of long-standing and growing inequalities of access to basic systems of health care delivery, including the staff, the stuff, and the systems. that is what -- that is how we link public health and clinical medicine, is to understand that we're delivering care in the context of protecting the health of the population. if you go down to each of these epidemics and you ask the question, do they have the staff, stuff, and systems they need to respond, the answer is, no. ist will stop the epidemic an emergency type response, but then again, how are we building local capacity to do that so these epidemics don't spread? as they would never spread in the united states. >> and the us down in fertility rates we keep hearing about, is that more, and your view, a result of the disease itself or the weaknesses of the health care systems? >> i think the more important hypothesis is that it is the latter. it would be great to talk to our colleagues at emory, the infectious disease colleagues who treated patients. it is not that they had an external medication, it is that they had supportive care. supportive care medical terms doesn't mean having someone hold your hand, it means if you are bleeding, you get blood products. r blood pressure is low, you get iv solutions. that is not what is happening in the ebola centers. it is quarantine without the care. supportive care sometimes requires an icu. yout is interesting that said there could not be in outbreak of ebola in the u.s. >> well, they could be, but it would be stopped quickly because patients would be isolated, not in quarantine facilities without medical care, but in places like emory or where i work in boston at brigham and women's hospital. even in haiti or rwanda, we prepared, along with the authorities, isolation rooms that are not to shut people away, but to take care of them while protecting the rest of the staff. back to your question, why would there be such massive variation in fertility rates? to me, that says to me because there has not been an overlap between epidemic, ebola epidemic, and modern medicine. a medieval level health systems and a modern plague that is going to spread and one can overlap modern medical systems and modern public health systems, then we can see with the case the telly really would be. just to be provocative, 10% instead of 90%. what if it is 5% with proper medical care? i'm saying, even without a specific therapy for that disease, which we're all hopeful from the new agent. >> last week we had guest on discussing this issue and there were somewhat of a debate over this issue of the quarantine. laurie garrett who won a pulitzer prize for coverage of an initial outbreak of ebola, supported the necessity for even forced quarantine because of the systems.f the weak however, lawrence gostin, faculty director of the o'neill institute for national and global health law at georgetown university, he warned against the use of a sanitaire, a large quarantine. >> people who are in the quarantine area are very frightened, and i think deservedly so, and their frightened not only because they are in a hot spot, a hot zone of ebola, but also with roads blocked, food is expensive and getting scarce. there are no medical supplies. and basic needs, psychosocial and medical needs, are not being met. inhumane wayreally of trying to do that. we never should have come to this. we can't have a health crisis turn into a human rights crisis. you have to provide food. you have to provide medical care. you have to provide psychosocial support. provide secure,purpor but safe and sterile equipment with personal protection equipment. and that is what a smart sanitaire is. >> your response? >> i don't think they are disagreeing. laurie garrett and -- who actually took the cover since the ebola outbreak -- and lawrence gostin. you can't have a smart "sanitaire" or quarantine without real care for people being quarantined. it seems to me, the patient's, the amerco patients who went to emory, they were being quarantined, right? but there are also receiving care. stuff, andes staff, systems. you can't be compassionate without expertise and you can have expertise without supplies that you need to do a good job. i do not see those two positions as really in context. -- a contest. the right to health care, the right to support just as a public health response, it has to be aware of how an illness is transmitted and how to protect the public. this tension, which is very profound as you know, is worsened by the fact there is no good medical system in liberia or sierra leone or guinea. and we have to build one. >> were talking to dr. paul farmer. we will come back to this discussion after the break. the music we are about to hear is called "ebola town." it was written to raise awareness about ebola. ♪ [music break] that was written earlier to raise awareness about the disease. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. our guest for the hour is dr. paul farmer, an infectious disease doctor, medical anthropologist, founder of partners in health, professor at harvard medical school who has written many books on the issue of infections, disease, and inequality. before we move on, if you could just lay out for us, dr. farmer, what ebola is. disease is as hemorrhagic fever caused by a virus. it is spread through close blood, in the sense of mucous membranes. say,i heard someone unfortunate, an official said ebola had gone airborne, i knew that was not right. what happens is, the symptoms -- ite vomiting, diarrhea can look a lot like malaria. this is one of the problems, you have to diagnose it because we have readily available or what we should have readily available therapies for malaria. now with all the sphere around ebola, people are not receiving care for that potentially fatal illness. >> how does an outbreak began? begins, say the reservoir might be that's. or bushmeat. the animal population and human population are competing for resources as the cities and towns grow. illnesses- these jumps to humans and then they have to jump to other humans through close contact. like preparing someone for burial or nursing someone. if you think about it, someone who is fall meeting or has diarrhea and you helped nurse that person in the sense doctors nurse people, your mother or sister nurses you, you're going to be exposed to infected secretions. the way to prevent that is sometimes called barrier nursing. you wear protective equipment and probably an apron, mask, gloves would do, but again, if someone is vomiting, you can get it in your eye or you get tired of telling strict precautions because you're working long hours, so again, staff, systems, stuff, you need the stuff to protect the health care workers and to take care of the patients and a staff to relieve one another so they can follow the strict infection control process. >> and proper precautions for disposing of the protective gear that you have been using. >> exactly. that is the systems issue. it is not that all places in africa don't have good health care systems. rwanda has built back from him even more gruesome situation leonehe wars in sierra and liberia. they have been trying to focus on the systems issues. how do we link health care workers to clinics to hospitals for people who are sick? we have been very proud to be part of that work. >> in a crisis like this, let's take liberia for example where monrovia, the five hospitals in the capital for a while were shut down, which has been through a civil war and all of this internal strife. in the midst of an epidemic like this, how do you rebuild a system that can cope with it? >> i would say that we know it is not impossible because it has been done after war and strife before. i mentioned example of rwanda, which remains a poor country, only 20 years out from the genocide. if you have more resources, you can build the systems more quickly. but again, it needs to focus on building local capacity. in liberia, that would be librarians. in rwanda, rwandans. a lot of this emergency response approach doesn't do that. it is not the function of an emergency response to build local capacity, but it needs to be done. of thet not be the job emergency responders, but it has to be someone's job. how do you do that? money --t resources -- and there is money that could be invested more wisely and health care. some of it is foreign aid money and some of it is local tax money. then you invest in human capital. you trained doctors, nurses, community health workers. probably the other order. you don't need an infectious disease doctor to treat ebola. or aids. we like to contribute and have our contribution, but it is really the system that has to be rebuilt. that is possible and even the most strife-torn region once the strife let's. >> so the politics of who gets medicine and who doesn't as two american doctors treated with an extreme mental serum were two expertsured, wrote -- talk about what is available, what zmapp is, where comes from, this drug, as supposedly the first person who is supposed to get it was the top doctor in liberia. they debated through the night whether to give it to him, afraid it could kill him. this was the story written in " new york times" fearing that in the end, they did not and he died. those trucks went to the two white american missionaries in liberia. then they were sent to emory. and they did survive. also given to a spanish priest who did die. and now they say the drug is out. what causes a company not to invest in an ebola vaccine? >> just to say very clearly, i'm thrilled that those two americans received proper care. requires -- if you're critically ill and you're needg hemorrhage, you supportive care that is real, not fake supportive care. so the more people who can get it, the happier i am. and i am very happy that they got back and received care. i just want to get that out of the way because people have asked me, not so much and wanda, but since i've been back your a couple of days, what do you think about people getting airlifted to emory? i say, great, no problem there. that can't position take this broad view of economic disparities, but only come in to comment on specific instances, i know it has its place. better, ild be far think, to say, ok, here are the impact of health disparities in general and the right? pre-ebola epidemic. you have some people living in medieval conditions in the 21st century, and some people living in the 21st century. how do we move more people from here to here? triple't have to have your gdp to build health systems. health systems help grow your economy. to me, that is the big picture. rich world/poor worlds, rather than a narrow view of an incident. although, i think we should be commenting on it. now, about the company's that are making -- you mentioned vaccine. these are not vaccines. we're talking about race there am and some -- a new class of drugs that interfere with rna. from what i understand, it is a number of companies. what is important for us to know is a lot of that is supported by the national institutes of health. therapy fora lot of aids was developed. so we all have a say, i think, and the world has a say because i regard the nih as a jewel in our crown as a nation. we have a say in how we build out an equity platform to make sure those discoveries reach those in greatest need in the global sense. and i believe, actually, the survival of our two american missionary workers could spur this forward. it is not that they should not have received care, it is that others should also. >> the onion recently published an article headlined -- "experts: ebola vaccine at least 50 white people away." >> i saw that. it is satirical and correct. i think that is perhaps one of the things that dr. brantly was intending in his comments. i hope this draws attention to the problem in liberia. i think that is a very humane and correct thing to say. because 50 white people away is actually satirical, but quite accurate in some senses. the demand for product -- whether that be a vaccine or diagnostic or a therapeutic drug, is driven by market concerns. but we funded a lot of that with tax dollars. so we should have a say. i'm thrilled to tell you, there are a lot of people in academic medicine and at the national institutes of health who regard this in the same way i do, which is why we have huge programs to help patients with aids. 11 million people now on therapy. it is not that there is a market and prices haven't changed that much since 1996 in the united states, but for these patients, they're connected to the modern world by this equity platform. money theunt of pharmaceutical industry spends on new drugs, all you have to do is turn on the evening news and you see the drugs for restless leg syndrome, for erectile dysfunction, a variety of them and yet ebola has been around for several decades and we're only now talking about an external drug. what is the role of government in terms of focusing what the research into new drugs should be? >> well, the role of government, i'm suggesting, especially hours since we are here, should be very large. one of the ironies in your getting at is development of new tuberculosis drugs. they were called orphan drugs. of the term "orphan drug" was used to describe drugs that would only have a small group of people benefiting from them. tuberculosis, when it was described as needing orphan drugs, was the leading infectious killer of young medals and the world. these ironies are going to be addressed only through a lot of government intervention. nih and thet, the part that focuses on infectious --ease, actually did find funded a lot of the research. with the doctor head of that branch, there sometimes behind the scenes champions, but we need to call in those chips and say, hey, there is a massive epidemic your because there is no staff, stuff, or systems and the stuff includes real treatments and vaccines. >> this goes to the whole issue of public health financing in the united states and the cut back in places like the nih. you're not going to have corporations putting huge resources into developing these drugs. so it is up to the governments to do it. >> i think that is right. we should look for allies and the corporations that make things we need. they're all kinds of ways to work with them. but the fact is, since it's market-driven, there will be market failures. here is where vigorous intervention by governments can help. >> not only smaller mass of people here, but then you're talking about africa and the question of pharmaceutical companies making drugs for people in africa. >> the drugs we're using now for millions of people in africa are largely generic medications. so that switch from 1996 -- i happen to be an infectious disease fellow at the time. we knew they worked because our hospitals were full of young people dying of aids at that time and they got up and went home. so with the help of aids experts, we say, we want people dying of aids in africa to get up and go home. they were are ready dying at home unattended. we wanted them to stop dying. that really happened in the last decade, which a lot of people said would not happen. and it has. and it should move forward the ebola response as well. >> i would ask about the tactic of some governments of travel bans, on the affected countries and how that plays into the ability of these countries to fight these outbreaks. this week, the south african government imposed a travel ban between south africa and the ebola west african countries. >> there has been concern, the extent of the outbreak increased [indiscernible] even though the outbreak has been limited to these countries in west africa, the spread to other countries needs to be contained. it is essential for the limited spread. >> that was south africa's minister of health. your response to these kinds of approaches? >> remember, ebola is not spread through casual contact. those kinds of responses can play a role, it's just like the about what smart quarantine looks like. it has to be smart compassionate quarantine. justi came into rwanda, i, like every other passenger on the plane, had to fill out a form that i had never seen before because it is an ebola form. oury passenger -- temperatures were checked. if you had a fever, you go into a quarantine. that is a smart procedure. again, it ise, dirty and nobody to give you rwanda,care -- even in they're getting that right. they're not trying to shut their borders. stopping nonessential travel, i get that. but it can slow down when you stop supplies -- staff, stuff, supplies, then it slows down the effective response. it is that same tension. you want ready movement, not just of the pathogens across the border, but the stuff and staff who can help. we need more of that. unfortunately, there is a tendency for some rigid, as you , not to promote the kind of smart quarantine we need. >> when we come back from break, i want to ask about what some republicans are saying in washington about the ebola virus crossing the border and what that means for immigration policy. we're talking to dr. paul farmer, medical anthropologist, professor at harvard medical school. we will be back in a moment. ♪ [music break] >> performing their song "haiti." of or one dollar of every ticket goes to partners in health. they've been doing that for years. they're playing at berkeley center this week end. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. several republicans have suggested migrants from central america could bring the ebola virus with them when they cross into the united states. the trend began in july when republican commerce member phil gingrey of georgia wrote a letter to the centers for disease control and prevention that noted "reports of illegal immigrants carrying deadly diseases such as swine flu, dengue fever, ebola virus, and tuberculosis are particularly concerning." in this month, a representative of indiana expressed similar fears during a radio interview. to theent a letter president saying, look, first of all, you know, we have got to know not from the press, that ahead of time, so we can plan this. so we did that. helpful, to your point about the medical aspects of this. he said, look, we need to know from a public health standpoint with ebola circulating and everything else, that is my addition, not necessarily his -- he said, we need to know the condition of these kids. to hisdoctor who refuse a congressman of indiana who is a heart surgeon. paul farmer,dr. infectious disease doctor, medical anthropologist, professor at harvard medical school. your response? >> you kind of know my response because pathogens don't have .orders or don't respect orders partners in health was found with the idea every human life has equal value. in fact, that we should pay more attention to the poor people so i would say if we have resources , then we should bring them in. i'm artie not allowed to be part of that conversation. is absurd. we don't have any reports of ebola or other hemorrhagic viruses in the border he is referring to, which is our big ones to the south. it is sort of the opposite -- >> next week they will have a new story of isis fighters bringing in suicide bombers ebola virus to central america quick some of the work is being funded in west africa is being funded with defense department dollars. to me, that is a better use of them, to use them to fight ebola , the bioterrorism money -- i mean, it is, silly and away, right, but it is a better use of it, in my view. can, we mention, if i do have partners in both liberia and sierra leone. partners and partners in health. and we are sending people the other way. they arson in people the other -- they arewith the sending people the other way to help with the epidemic. one of them is called will body alliance, the one and sierra leone. the other one has a name there were talking about, which is last mile health. there talking about going the last mile to serve the world poor. i think the congressmen who were quoted, it would be great if they could pay attention to that part of it. we should work harder to serve poor people come especially kids . >> there's a front-page article in "new york times" today with the headline of the article -- it is talking about it being a model. it talks about a place in new jersey, actually. this is a picture of your clinic and rwanda? >> it is a hospital, actually. partners in health built it for the public health authority. ,t was design her beauty finding, and disease. >> what is the relationship? >> this is hypothetical and i can't always show it to you, but if you are sick and you're feeling horrible, do you want to be in an ugly place? if it is ugly, it is probably dirty, right? are probably has tuberculosis flying around in the air. that is one of the leading killers of patients in hospital in the southern part of africa. it was designed with the help of a group which is focused on preferential option for the border in architecture. >> what do you mean? what is the money needed to go into this? >> that cost $4.3 million, which squareably under $50 per foot. we talk about the huge amounts of money going into foreign aid with enormous overhead, that beautiful hospital -- it made the front page of "new york times." onad no idea it would be there today. it is beautiful. the beds are facing courtyards. this is a place i was saying i wanted you to come visit. i was there last week seeing patients. i think it is beautiful. how is it safer? that's just take infection control because we been talking about it. the air is circulated. some of the louvers cannot close. there is a giant fan circulating the air for reason so that people don't get infected with tuberculosis while they are patients in the hospital. there is also isolation. meaning someone is sick with an can beous pathogen that spread, we have the capacity there. that is in a place that only 10 years ago had not one doctor, no hospital, no electricity, on the border with uganda. if you can do it there and make the front page of "new york times," then you can do it in liberia, sierra leone, andg. for rural people, poor people. that is were these epidemics came from. people living there don't have access to modern medical care, and they should, and you can. >> what about the international response so far to this ebola epidemic? you have worked with the clinton health initiative in the past. i'm wondering, other than doctors without borders and some of the missionary groups, how do you rate the international response and what needs to be done by government and the major foundations that are involved in public health? >> first of all, the clinton health access initiative is still working there. especially in liberia. just as these groups i mentioned, will body alliance, they are still there. as far as international emergency response, that is what doctors without borders does. it does in to troubled areas and tries to respond in emergency fashion. the cdc, i think it is great we sent 50 people there. it is a terrific investment of u.s. taxpayer dollars, in my view. but that is not going to build the systems and rebuild local capacity that would make this less likely to happen in the long term. yet we can channel more of those dollars to local capacity. i hate that jargon, but whatever you call it, a means training people from liberia, sierra leone, etc., haiti, rwanda, to respond to the public health crises. that doesn't mean we cannot be of use. the whole world can be of use. but it needs to be linked to the long-term approach. >> a recent column says -- >> i think it is a big mistake. global, i call them health agree platforms. that is not telling which of the world health organization. but we need global institutions because the pandemics are global. they're not just regional. when i say global, they're not down there waiting and mexico to jump up over our borders and bodies of those kids. their trans-local. contained in national borders. you need robust, trans-local institutions like the world health organization. and i hear these figures and budget cuts like this, i think about -- i have been reading matt taibi's books. thatives me nuts to think we are arguing over this tiny little pot for global health equity or public health, whatever you want to call it, and these vast amounts are being squandered on foolishness or they are being literally stolen. we can't to public health without more resources. we need more money to do this. it has cost nothing next to these foolish endeavors or worse. shrinking these budgets and contracting is a huge mistake. times" reports a teenage boy who was wounded on wednesday during clashes at an -stricken neighborhood died after being shot in his leg. the teenager, 15, was part of a large crowd of young men who the neighborhood west point which was placed under quarantine the night before. soldiers fired live rounds to drive the protesters back into the neighborhoods. up, what needs to be done right now? what is sure susman of what liberia is doing and what can the u.s. do? all, a 15-year-old is not a young man but a child. that is just an awful way to respond. -- itf he had been doesn't matter how, but shooting a child who then dies of the injury. hypothermic shock and bleeding means he died of gunshot wounds. anything on that side of the response is not smart, not humane. it is not going to work. on the other hand, you have the response -- i mentioned -- work with the public sector. it's not like we're saying ngo's , of people working with local the district to build a completely different kind of response, which is, let's have committed he health workers help us find the patience. let's have proper care for the patients. let's find everything we can to get them better and prevent spread in that way. that is what we should all be focused on right now. there is no reason we cannot stop this with the adequate investment -- staff, stuff, systems asked right now. >> and the health workers on the front line in these countries, what they're going through? >> i was in the hospital with a colleague from mine from england , kings college. looking around the hospital, they're getting ready to set up an ebola ward. >> this is an seo lyon? >> yes. i thought, what a tragedy for what is about to happen to them. no wonder the health workers are frightened. they know they don't have -- the people know they don't have the personal protective equipment that they need. they know they don't have what it would take to treat people with dignity and compassion. it is a very frightening thing. i have lived through situations like that. the earthquake in haiti. you don't have what you need to help people survive. it is frightening. it is demoralizing. sowe want to say thank you much to dr. paul farmer, infectious disease doctor, medical anthropologist, professor at harvard medical school. democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail your comments to [email protected] or mail them to democracy now! p.o. box 693 new york, new york 10013. 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