Transcripts For LINKTV Democracy Now 20140707

We are mostly defending ourselves. Today, democracy now exclusive come the first time u. S. Tv radio broadcaster goes inside the Ecuadorian Embassy in london for sitdown interview with wikileaks founder and editor Julian Assange. He just entered his third year in the embassy where he has political asylum while he faces investigations in both sweden and the United States. All of that and more coming up. This is democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman. Israel has carried out deadly strikes on the gaza strip amidst continued violence following the killings of a palestinian teenager and three teenage israeli settlers. At least nine hamas members were killed sunday when the Israeli Military bombed two parts of the gaza. It was israels deadliest strike on gaza since an eightday assault in late 2012. Hamas has called the strikes a grave escalation and has threatened to retaliate. Palestinian rocket attacks have continued on southern parts of israel, with 25 fired on sunday. Israeli troops have massed along the gaza border, threatening a potential fullscale attack. The deadly attack on gaza comes amidst heavy unrest in the west bank and in arab towns inside israel over last weeks abduction and murder of palestinian teenager Mohammed Abu Khudeir. Oner days of clashes, israel sunday arrested six israeli suspects in connection with Mohammed Abu Khudeirs debt. Reports out of israel today say three of the suspects have confessed. The Palestinian Authoritys attorney general said an initial autopsy found burns on 90 of his body, suggesting he was burned alive. The results of the autopsy shows two things. The main cause of death is burning. Sure he was burned while he was alive. But it is widely believed Mohammed Abu Khudeir was killed in an act of revenge for the murders of three israeli teenagers whose bodies were found last week. The murder followed calls for vengeance from israeli political leaders as well as in marches and on social media. A 15 year old palestinianamerican cousin of Mohammed Abu Khudeir, tariq abu khudeir, became the subject of global attention over the weekend after video emerged of him being severely beaten by israeli officers. Tariq says he was watching demonstrations in East Jerusalem when he was seized. The video shows him lying on the as the officers repeatedly beat him with batons. He was left with facial bruises and severely swollen eyes and lips. Actually brutally attacked from the side. I heard somebody screaming. They came and attacked me. I went unconscious and woke up in the hospital. Why did they attack you . I dont know. That is why i ran. [indiscernible] no, i jumped the fence and tried to run away because i saw somebody running at me. Tariq abu khudeir has been charged with assaulting a Police Officer and has been released into house arrest. He lives in florida, but is in East Jerusalem visiting his family. He was with his cousin just moments before the kidnapping and murder last week. In a statement, state Department Said it was profoundly troubled the assault, calling for speedy, transparent and credible investigation and full accountability for the apparent excessive use of force. The iraq you parliament has postpone critical talks on choosing a new government amidst a deadlock overfilling top posts. The session began last week that quickly broke down in impasse over choosing the Prime Minister the speaker parliament, and president. The negotiations will be postponed until august 12. The Iraqi Government says a top general has been killed in fighting their baghdad. Over the weekend, video footage emerged of sunni militant leader openly delivering a sermon at a mosque in mosul. Germany has arrested an intelligence official on allegations of working as a double agent for the United States. The suspect has reportedly admitted to passing on documents to u. S. Contact. Speaking today in china, german chancellor Angela Merkel said the charges are serious if true. Of a germanestion man working as a double agent for the rest intelligence department, we have already opened an investigation. Of the reports are correct, it would be a serious case. True, itlegations are would be for me a clear contradiction to what i consider to be a cooperation between agencies and partners. Reports based on leaks by Edward Snowden have revealed fast nsa spying in germany, including on chancellor merkel cell phone. Germany cancel the contract with u. S. Firm verizon last month, citing the role in nsa surveillance. Disclosed leaks from Edward Snowden show the National Security agency is far more likely to collect the communications of average users than those of suspects theyre targeting. The Washington Post reports that in one collection of intercepted emails and messages, nine out of 10 account holders were not the intended foreign targets, but ordinary people with no warrants against them. This is largely due to loose rules that allow agents to capture the data of any user in the suspects contact list, chat room history, or email chain. From these messages, the nsa saved a vast amount of data on nonsuspects, including family pictures, love letters, and erotic messages. Nearly half the american billy half of the messages came from americans or yes residents. The disclosure also contradicts a recent transparency report that said over 89,000 people were targeted by the nsa prism and upstream last are. The actual number appears closer to 900,000. A former cia employee has revealed he was forced out of his job after trying to release Historical Documents under the freedom of information act. Jeffrey scudder discovered the files after taking up the position of the Historical Collections Division which is tasked with combing through Agency Archives to vet what can be safely made public. He came across material on long dormant conflicts and operations related to the cold war will stop but when he submitted them for disclosure, he was accused of mishandling classified information. His home was raided, his computers seized, and he was forced to retire. He said the case has raised comparisons to complaints from nsa whistleblower Edward Snowden, whos said there were no adequate channels for him to raise his concerns about nsa surveillance. U. S. Supreme court is delivered a second blow to Birth Control access by siding with profits that claim religious objections to contraception. First, on monday, the court ruled in the hobby lobby case that must religious corporations can refuse to provide Birth Control coverage to employees as required by obamacare. That decision appeared to endorse possible alternatives, such as having the Company Submit a form which would then shift the burden of coverage to insurers or thirdparty ministrations. The Obama Administration has already offered this commendation to religious nonprofits. But in the Second Quarter issued thursday, the Court Temporarily exempted the Christian School of Wheaton College in illinois from filling out such a form. The decision drew scathing opposition from the three female justices on the court, who accused their male colleagues of effectively reversing or stands in the hobby lobby case. Justice Sonia Sotomayor wrote that the latest move and in indonesia, and the report is in accusing indonesian forces of a Covert Campaign to rig this weeks president ial elections. Website, allan nairn reports officials from indonesias Army Special Forces in the state Intelligence Agency recently met to discuss how to ensure victory for general prabowo subianto. Sources, to an unnamed the participants confirmed an ongoing operation that intels ballot tampering, street violence, threats against supporters of rival candidate joko widodo. Prabowo, who is trained by the u. S. , has been accused of human the 1990s. S from he was dismissed from the army in 1998 following accusations of complicity in the abduction and torture of indonesian activist. And those are some of the headlines. This is democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman. We turn now to a democracy now exclusive. Wikileaks founder Julian Assange has just entered his third year inside Ecuadors Embassy in london where he has political asylum. He faces investigations in both sweden and the United States will stop here in the u. S. , a secret grand jury is investigating wikileaks for its role in publishing a trove of leaked documents about the iraq and Afghanistan Wars as well as state department cables. In sweden, he is wanted for questioning on allegations of sexual misconduct, though no charges have been filed. Late last week, there was the first break in the swedish case in two years. A Swedish Court announced it would hold a hearing july 16 over a request by his lawyers for prosecutors to hand over new evidence and withdraw the arrest warrant. Late last night, we flew back to new york after interviewing Julian Assange inside the embassy. We are in the Ecuadorian Embassy where Julian Assange is hold up. He has been here for just over hisyears, just celebrated 43rd birthday inside the embassy. Your you can see the British Police and right in front of me is the about the knee were Julian Assange has come out and addressed his supporters and addressed the media come with the ecuadorian flag hanging from that balcony. As to wind Julian Assange will come out, he is concerned if he steps outside, he will be arrested by the British Police. So for now, hes inside, this nomad of the digital age. We are in the Ecuadorian Embassy in london. Were Julian Assange took refuge two years ago. He is in detained in britain for close now to for years. Welcome to democracy now how are you doing here . It has been over two years that you have really not seen daylight for any extended time. For years ive been detained without charge. Ur years ive been detained without charge. I have been under house arrest for about 18 months. Now two years here in the embassy. The ecuadorian government gave me political asylum in relation to the ongoing National Security investigation by the doj, department of justice, in the United States into our publications and also into sourcing. Did i enter into conspiracy with Justin Manning was sentenced to prison . How my doing . Of course, it is a difficult situation in a variety of ways. I would say when someone is in this position, what youre most is theed about interruption in your family relationships. The security situation has made it very hard for my children, my parents. If we look at the Bigger Picture , wikileaks is an organization, has survived attacks by u. S. Government, and we have gone on to do further work and some quite significant work. Unlike many Media Organizations during that period, we have not gone bankrupt, despite worldwide banking thinking lik blockade. If you win back and said, what are the chances small investigate a publisher could publish this information about the iraq war and the state department and the Afghanistan War and many other documents about guantanamo, and enter into conflict with the u. S. Government in a very serious way , would they still be publishing . Would there people be in prison . You would think, probably, he yes. But actually, we have managed to mostly overcome, apart from a situation here, the barriers put up against us. July 16 is a significant date. Twoare wanted in investigations or you being investigated by the u. S. Government, as you said, wikileaks, exposing many documents tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands . 8 million so far. Around the iraq war, Afghanistan War, and tables of the state department that go back for decades. Your also wanted by sweden for questioning, often misstated because you have been charged for questioning around sexual misconduct. July 16 is a big date in that case. Why . Most of our resources have been confirmed with theng u. S. Investigation impending leadsution, which the doj to an its court filing of the 25th of april this year continues. The swedish investigation has obstructed my asylum. The United Kingdom says, look, theres this questioning, warrant that sweden has put out for you. They may drop the case each they did but then reraised it. Theres this questioning, therefore, we say you cannot go to ecuador to accept asylum until we have extradited you to sweden. That is a violation of international law. The laws quite clear asylum trumps extradition because of the nature of the relationships of the human and the 1951 asylum convention. Every time we try and get traction publicly and politically in the u. S. Case, people say, no, the whole thing is about the swedish case. It is quite important to deal and showswedish matter it for what it is, and that it should be dropped. There is been no movement by the swedish government which theyre obligated to somehow progressive situation. Theyve been very happy to keep it incomplete status. They refuse to come here or pick up the telephone or to accept an affidavit. Provide arefused to guarantee i would not be extradited to the United States. That situation means we have to itkle the swedish matter seems in sweden. The only alternative is going through the International Court of justice in relation to asylum. The first date in nearly four years that the matter has been heard about in sweden. My lawyers are confident that either in the lower court, more likely the appeal court, we will be able to dismiss the case. The law is reasonably clear. Meant to proceed with the swedish government has an obligation under its own wall to proceed with maximum speed, with minimum costs, and also with bringing the minimum suspicion on the person who is being investigated. It is in clear violation of all of this points. A this hearing on july 16 as result of an appeal by your swedish lawyers. Why did they not appeal before . Several things have happened in the interim. Because of the abuses in this case in some other cases, a new european law was introduced. It has been enacted in sweden. It was meant to be enacted by june 1 of this year and it wasnt. But by july the first it should have come on board. That new legislation permits our people who are suspects, who had the liberty to pride in some way, to be able to access information to show their innocence. We understand there were significant efforts by the police collected that shows i am innocent. It thus far has not been handed over. This new european law says it has to be handed over. In the affidavits ive read, your lawyers were allowed to see Text Messages of the women who have accused you you have to be careful in saying they have accused me, because when you read their earlypondence, their statements, they dont say that at all. They say they did not accuse me and the police took the matter and the state accused me. But they didnt want any charges. Formalrked filing a complaint. That is what they say in those Text Messages. Your lawyers were not able to get copies at this point but they were allowed to look at them . One of them saying something like, i did not want to put any charges on Julian Assange, but the police were keen on getting a grip on him . Yeah, and that she was very she did not want what occurred to occur. Your question in sweden originally, and the chief prosecutor actually is it the prosecutor who drop the case against you . The key prosecutor of rapeholm dropped the complaint. He said, its not that i dont believe with the women say, but theres no evidence. Dropped. Tter was subsequently, the swedish politician who is running for election then took it to a city that has nothing to do with the case, and resurrected it under another prosecutor. And so what could happen on july 16 . Them, theyons for can simply dismiss it, they can say the law is unclear and ask maybe a European Court of justice to give clarity on this new european law and how it is to be implemented. Theres also a lot here that was just passed in britain that seems to have come about as a result of your case, unfortunately, you are not protected under it. That is a very important development. Mya result of the abuses in case, which were seen by the supreme court, there was here in britain. In britain. Two papers were written about what had happened. Theres a lot of concern about this idea you could extradite someone without even charging them. So political pressure [indiscernible] that any Police Officer in ask for them without being charged. Just the was introduced to prevent that from happening. No more extradition without charge from the u. K. There was the debate will this protect assange. Was injuredourt into that it would not be retrospective. Wikileaks founder and editor Julian Assange inside the Ecuadorian Embassy in london where he has been holed up for more than two years. And we come back in this sitdown interview, i talk to Julian Assange about my interview with the Swedish Foreign minister about his case. And i get his response to Hillary Clintons comments calling for Edward Snowden to come back to the United States to face a trial. We also learned how assange helped facilitate snowdens departure from hong kong. All of that and more coming up will sto. [music break] this is democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman. Back from london. We return now to my interview with wikileaks founder Julian Assange from inside Ecuadors Embassy in london this weekend, where he has political asylum and has been living for over two years. I just came from sweden from the almedalen or 25,000 people gather to talk about politics and all the parties there and the leaders are there, among them the foreign minister carl bildt. I asked him about this challenge that was just introduced to the u. N. Human Rights Council. Lets go to a clip of that. We are looking at the case of Julian Assange, and 59 legal and human Rights Groups have made its mission to the human human rightsouncil u. N. Human Rights Council charging the pretrial detention. What are your thoughts on this . None, because it is a question for the legal authorities and not for me. But because it is in the u. N. Human Rights Council that doesnt make any difference. It is still a legal issue within the legal system. As you have in the u. S. , you have the separation between executive and Judicial Branch. , constitutional democracy, if youre a representative of the executive branch, you have no say and should not have any say in what the Judicial Branch is doing. That applies here as well. That is carl bildt saying this is a judicial issue, an issue of the judiciary and wont intervene. Your comment on that . I only wish that was the case. In fact, carl bildt, the Swedish Foreign minister, hired by the liberation of iraq, forecast to provoke. [indiscernible] carl bildt has in fact continually, publicly interfered and announced wikileaks and me or statements that milers are made in various ways the last four years. Not only carl bildt, but the rest of the swedish cabinet as well. When someone doesnt want to answer question, they would lie on principles. On the other hand, when they want to interfere, then they do just that. And the significance of the u. S. Government being involved with sweden to a level we havent seen before . You have the secretary of state at the time, Hillary Clinton, coming to sweden, the attorney general eric holder coming to sweden, president obama coming to sweden. That has never happened in u. S. History. And john kerry. Do you believe this has to do with you . There may be an element. The was a significant debate in sweden about dropping the matter possibly related to me. When hillary visited, it was just a week before. I think it is more likely to reflect a very Strong Alliance between sweden and i, which has developed since the end of the 2006war and rapidly since when the centerright party injured in the government. That alliance we can see in the swedish troops are under u. S. , theyd in afghanistan were the number one seller of arms to the United States during. He iraq war they have an agreement which is betweenonger than that gchq and National Security agency to conduct surveillance through sweden. Julian assange, if the case dissolved in sweden, if the allegations were dropped, could you walk outside this embassy here on british soil . No, but that case would stop obstructing the path of asylum. We still have the issue whether the british would activate the u. S. Extradition request. The british also conducting their own counterterrorism investigation in relation to our involvement and the guardians involvement and Edward Snowden. Theres also questions about the grand jury that were not sure about. Is thet feared aspect wikileaks grand jury, which has been the largest investigation impending prosecution of a publisher and u. S. History. More than a dozen different agencies involved. It is very well documented, not just by us, but other publications. That is an issue. When the conflict was at its height in this embassy was completely surrounded it is still surrounded by British Police. About eight to 16 uniformed and undercover Police Officers owing back to 2012, there was a siege involving a very times of the day over 100 Police Officers. At that time, the British Police were ordered to smash or to smash the diplomatic car. That is quite extraordinary viewer be a direct instruction to violate the most test a part of international law, which is the protection of embassies. It is not likely they need to debate whether it might be legal or illegal under certain circumstances. It is completely illegal coming at the British Police ordered to do it. Do you sense a shift . You have a barren is in charge of the Police Committee and the london house saying, why are we spending this money . In fact, hasnt there been a breakdown on how much money has been sent in u. S. Dollars . It has come under the freedom of information act request about two weeks ago that the u. K. Had reached 6. 5 million 6. 5 Million Pounds. Interestingly, when there is a request of the breakdown, about 16 people fulltime. When there is a request of the breakdown, the refuse to reveal the breakdown in the National Security news. The u. K. Government did something they did without Police Surveillance that is basically a matter of National Security. Let me ask you about the latest letter into eric holder signed by many organizations, including human rights watch, Anthony Romero of the aclu, reporters without borders, and many others. Calling on the Justice Department to officially close all criminal investigations against wikileaks and its editorinchief, you, Julian Assange, stop harassment another persecution of wikileaks for publishing in the public interest. Talk about what this means and whether you think this will happen in the United States right now, whether this investigation against you which has come up and everything from the manning trawled other places . I think it is a sign of a developing mood in the United States, to see conservative organizations like human rights watch, which as you know, has a departmentign state persona people in it. This prosecution or pending prosecution of wikileaks by the doj, is a dangerous precedent to set. It would be a significant stain on the record. I think there is a view that should be stopped. A number of different organizations. Of course, that should always be the view. I think people were scared. I think they really were scared. They thought perhaps they could isolate us. Let the u. S. Government go after wikileaks, just as long as we can keep our organizations for the human Rights Groups them can stay out of the fight. But if you look at how the espionage act prosecutions have developed, there is now more investigations by the environmental the administration by those under the espionage act than all previous president s fact, more than double. People understand it is not just us. In fact, the president has been said that you can perhaps do this to almost anyone. That should be checked. In this letter, they go on to quote eric holder come the attorney general saying he recently said this. Unfortunately, you can see the conditional which in doing interestingly, this Public Statement by eric holder reflects a development of sort in the state department over the past two years. It is to somehow say that certain types of reporters reporting which is legitimate and others that are not legitimate. Refusede department has to recognize us as a Media Organization. It is done in many ways, not just in the Public Statements by its officials over a variety of time, but for example, in the Bradley Manning trial, our spokesperson, the top awardwinning journalist three times, applied for a visa to go to the trial, to the u. S. State department. It was refused. The grounds for refusal were not specified. They obviously, the state department has a policy position that it will refuse to recognize the Media Organization because this would activate their other position. Here you are, Julian Assange, and the Ecuadorian Embassy under siege by a number of governments Ecuadorian Embassy under siege by a number of governments. You managed to work with Edward Snowden to help him once he gave over his documents and hong kong , the former in as a contractor, to the journalist Laura Poitras and also glenn greenwald, make his way to russia where he got political asylum. Can you explain how you did this . First of all, lets explain why wikileaks is an organization that shook on a case. Well, personally, i have been through i could see the experiment snowden was about to go through experience snowden was about to go through. I also watched Chelsea Manning guthrie in even worse experience, announcing 35 years in prison at one stage kept in cages in kuwait and treated very badly. Forve personal sympathy what he was about to go through. And not just the legal side, but also from the press side. As a result of our having gone through it, we developed a certain understanding about medicationsecurity which had not been our specialty. We thought there was a chance we could help him as he reached out to us for help. We thought it was important to assist. The other thing is, about the sort of signal. The u. S. Government decided to to send asea manning signal to everyone, dont you ever think about telling people what is really going on inside the was military. And they tried to smash also the next most visible person or organization, with his wikileaks which is wikileaks. We have mostly defended ourselves. Wikileaks has never [indiscernible] try and set a counterexample with Edward Snowden, that in fact, you can blow the whistle and reveal this information to the public which is of tremendous historical importance. Into agoing to end up mass surveillance system, very aggressive and strong militaryindustrial complex . Or do we have a chance to steal away from that . If we could correct Edward Snowden as someone who blew the whistle and survived and that even survived, but thrived and spoke about it and kept informing people what was going on, then we wanted to do it because that would incentivize other forces coming forward. So how did you do it . Amy,u have to understand, very carefully because there is an ongoing Edward Snowden grand jury, which is looking at the matters of those people who assisted Edward Snowden as well as Edward Snowden himself. But theres a lot of surveillance at this embassy. On the other hand, we have developed certain techniques in defeating surveillance. They are not easy. They are hard techniques. They do take due diligence. Is, the National Security agency, for all its surveillance power and the doj for all their coercive power, in the end, they are bureaucracies. Theyre perfectly nasty, boring bureaucracies. Bureaucracies are inefficient and move slowly. We knew this from our dealing with the state department and the pentagon. So we were able to quickly and fast assess the situation in hong kong and mechanisms to get him out and get him asylum. Intermediary countries would grab him. We were making prearrangements and also just [indiscernible] so that is what we did. It is not like it was guaranteed to work. In fact, there were certain stages when there were quite some risks. But the risks of inaction were greater. , who is harrison british, but concerned if she comes back to bring she also will be arrested, actually company jim on that trip from hong kong to russia, stayed with them at both the airport for five weeks and then for months after that. Thats right. Sarah harrison, one of our people who went to hong kong to do with the situation both from she wasspective acting as a conduit to our lawyers. And from a journalistic perspective. Kongccompanied him to hong im sorry, accompanied him out of hong kong to moscow and that was a very difficult situation. Importantly, making sure once it became clear it would be difficult for him to go to latin america, making sure that the situation into which he entered into asylum in russia was a well negotiated one. Was not one of weakness. So she stayed there for some 3, 4 months to make sure he had freedom in russia and was well respected there. To their credit, the russian authorities to the right thing. They gave him asylum and did not interfere or coerce with his conditions. What do you think is the most significant revelation that has come out of this snowdenleaked documents . I mean, you who know so much. It is our specialty to understand surveillance systems. Beforeion but so hand. Many of the broad parameters we knew about. But the confirmation of each one of those parameters was extremely important for others to realize it. Incredible scale. Guess, aret you can they doing this or not . They are doing it. For example, packages sent to the post, and back touring them. Back during chips. We see corporations between u. S. Hardware and National Security agency. Intel that makes the chips for telephones and so on, that is quite surprising. It has been rumored and speculated that is the actual physical hardware is backboard before you even get it. I think that is a bit surprising. And the absolute numbers. The billions of interceptions occurring each day. People who are studying they get to see a map of the world in Different Countries with, need per day were, in. The latest news that is just come out of berlin, the arrest of german Intelligence Officer for spying for the United States on the inquiry that has been opened into the whole nsa scandal . Ando surprise at all Intelligence Officers are being bribed i the United States. Weve had volunteers being paid by the fbi and so on. Being bribed by the United States is to surprise at all. What is interesting, germany has tried to make it public. They have found someone theyre going to prosecute them, not just dismiss it. That is a decision by the German Government in the case of popular will by the german population. Wikileaks founder and editor Julian Assange. And our next segment, we asked him about whether clintons comments for Edwards Snowden to come back to the United States and face a trial. Julian assange describes his surroundings. He is been holed up in the Ecuadorian Embassy in london for over two years without any direct sunlight. He describes it as a kind of space station. He has been granted political asylum in ecuador, a concern if he steps foot outside the Ecuadorian Embassy in london, he will be arrested by british authorities. We continue our conversation with Julian Assange in the Ecuadorian Embassy in a moment. This is democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman. We are just back from london for our democracy now exclusive, the first time a u. S. Tv radio broadcast has had a sitdown interview inside the Ecuadorian Embassy with wikileaks founder Julian Assange. We go back to that interview right now. He has been granted political asylum in ecuador, but has been living in the asylum embassy for over two years. Hillary clinton has been doing a number of interviews on her book prepresident ial tour. By theinterviewed guardian where she talks about Edward Snowden. If he wishes to return home knowing he would be held accountable but also be able to present a defense, that is his decision to make. In any case that im aware of as a former lawyer, he has a right to mount a defense. Easterling has a right to mount out a Legal Defense and a public offense, which can affect the Legal Defense. Whether he returns or not is up to him. He certainly can stay in russia, apparently, under putins protection for the rest of the is life if he chooses, but he can take the opportunity to come back and have a debate. That is his decision. Im not making a judgment one way or the other. Those are the words of bill clinton, that Edward Snowden should come home in and the current secretary of state says to man up and face the trial. He is no possibility to conduct a Legal Defense in the United States. That is a sad relation of how things have evolved. [indiscernible]ak that is why it is there, so they always get what they want. The state secrets privilege is used in these espionage cases where the government tries to work out away to present evidence that doesnt allow a defense under it is classified. Even if at the procedural level from he will not be able [indiscernible] relations to his obligations under law for classified access, it is a strict liability. [indiscernible] you go, how does that play out in practice . Speaking to the press, no allegation that was money involved or was dealing with opponents of the United States government and get 35 years in prison. Those are the actual conditions that people go through in cases like this. In fact, when Hillary Clinton talks about his Public Defense that he could not one, when it came to Chelsea Manning and Bradley Manning, when manning was being tried, we could not even here mannings voice except was smuggled out of the courtroom. So how would Edward Snowden defend himself . And in the Chelsea Manning case, it was even worse. We had defiled even get any transcript out of that hearing. We had to file even to get any transcript out of that hearing. The conditions that snowden would be cap in in the United States would be sams. That is what they do. They Say Something in his head is valuable, not just documents and by speaking, he could reveal this information. So basically, he would be kept incommunicado during the caseprocess and the court could even go from five to seven years. , presumably, Julian Assange this applies to you as well, what do you think would happen if youre extradited to the United States . It is not even what i think. Have a team of excellent lawyers, about 30 of been lookingt have at the situation for several years including Michael Ratner from the United States. Their advice is, yes, theres a high chance would be subject to special ministry to measures, sams. You obviously would not get bail. The punishment is in the process. The doj understands that. If you look at other cases like, straight, for example, former National Security agency whistleblower, given 13 counts of espionage and then in the end, hed be it and be them down to one count. Handling classified information. They draw them into a long, extended drawnout process. You may win it, but you dont get all those years back. Responsibilities to the organization i am running, to my family, so i have been advised not to go to the United States. I think that is good advice. Finally, where we are here in the Ecuadorian Embassy, you described it as a kind of space station. Can you describe it for us, how you live here 24 hours a day . It is a space station in the sense that i am sealed from the outside world and natural light. Therefore, have to create my own cycle of light like you do in space. It is so you have a light machine . Yes. Being in an embassy is actually, in some ways, a National Security reporter stream because theres no subpoenas to an embassy. The British Police cant come in, the Ecuadorian Police no police all stop there can be no raise at night or during the day. That is quite a comforting position for the publisher of wikileaks from a work form. It is not a position i would like to keep forever, obviously. It does allow me to continue working. There are a lot of constraints about, can my family safely visit . Scansource is safely visit . Can sources safely visit . Some has been publicly declared. , that we arers aware of, indifferent forms, what faces onto the embassy in different ways. Across from the Famous Department stores here its. Act, we the protection andd an act against harrods got information out showing how harris were in fact assisting the Police Surveillance operation. How . By permitting the police to use various buildings and facilities that they have, not just a formal building, but [indiscernible] it might be something of interest that parents was bought out a while ago. Ultimately, qatar that is supporting the surveillance operation. What about the outside security here. We look beyond the curtains and we see a police man. There are number of Uniformed Police around the embassy and Plainclothes Police operating. Expenditure ofed 6. 7 Million Pounds is about 15,000 per day. There has been an analysis of that. And what that means. There are about eight visible people around the embassy. Cover 16 people, so there are number of others also involved. That doesnt include what mi5 is doing. And you found the embassy here found a bug in the ambassadors office . Thats right. The Embassy Security found shortly before the visit of the ecuadorian Prime Minister, in terms of their security getting ready for his visit, they found plantedanted, a gsm bug in a hidden socket in the ambassadors room. Do you expect there are many others . Well, some parts of the embassy. Fortunately, the embassy has a 24hour Security Guard me. I never leave the building. Around. Ys watching or and whatives you hope do you see is the greatest legacy of wikileaks . Hopefully, the greatest legacy is still to come. Wikileaks started in 2007, but it was really this republic confrontation we had in 2010, 2011 which people started watching. A new generation for history younging in real time people see the internet as their place where the Exchange Ideas where they Exchange Ideas. Previously, they have been politically apathetic as they did not feel they could be a part of the process. But seeing Hillary Clintons and equivalents for many Different Countries, and the fight we were in and being part of that someway by talking about it or spreading this information with others, educated a new generation. And the internet went from being the politically apathetic space to a political space. That spread into many things. Mostnk this is the significant thing. In terms of the publishing [indiscernible] it is set off a cascade of which going through allegedly Chelsea Manning and Edward Snowden and the others, to come forward and reveal information. Is there another Edward Snowden the pipeline . Im sure there will be. Wikileaks founder and editor Julian Assange. We interviewed him inside the Ecuadorian Embassy in london over the weekend. We just flew back. Julian assange celebrated his 43rd birthday there on july 3. His third earth they inside the embassy. He is been granted political asylum by ecuador, but concerned if he steps outside the embassy in order to get to ecuador, he will be arrested by british authorities. On wednesday, part two of our interview with Julian Assange. A special thanks to mike are, John Hamilton and dennis moynahan. Democracy now is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. Email your comments to outreach democracynow. Org or mail them to democracy now p. O. Box 693 new york, new york 10013. [captioning made possible by democracy now ] the type of world in which our ancestors lived for hundreds of thousands of years, women would probably have 4 to 6 children in a lifetime. Half those children would die before they could reproduce, so the only thing we can be sure about in human population studies is that for the last 100,000 years, people on average had 2 children to succeed them, although we were in a population explosion 1,000 years ago. In just the last nanosecond