And it would energize me to go finish the tournament. I mean, to me, thats why i was there. I mean, to me, to finish at noon on sunday and finish 30th is something i have no desire to do. Rose right. But to come down thetre sch of a Golf Tournament and have a chance to win that Golf Tournament and be there to enjoy and have fun with those people and yourself and the competition with your fellow competitor, thats why we play the silly game. Thats why we love it. Rose palmer, nicklaus and player, next. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Thats a fouriron and jacks got a much better shot. And jack is going to take advantage of it. That ball is going straight for the green. Rose Jack Nicklaus is widely regarded as the greatest golfer to ever play the game. He won a record 18 majors, he burst on to the scene in the 1950s with a mix of power and finesse that would revolutionize golf. The great bobby jones famously remarked that nicklaus plays a game with which i am not familiar. Nobody has been a masters champion more than nicklaus. In 1986 at age 46 he won his sixth green jacket, making him the oldest player to ever win a major. This year marks the 50th anniversary of his first win at the Augusta National. Last weekend, i visited him at his home in north palm beach, florida. You might have won the u. S. Open, but you didnt. Incidentally, that was the best thing that ever happened to me. Rose what . Not winning. Rose why . Well, i learned so many lessons. I got to play with hogan. I saw how to finish your tournament. I learned the mistakes that i made. If i won that tournament, i would have never found the mistakes i made which i never really repeated in my career. Rose like what kind of mistakes . Oh, i mean, i had a i had a oneshot lead but i was leading after nine holes with nine holes to play. At the end 1206 holes, with six holes to play i had a oneshot lead. I looked at the leader board, started worrying about hogan, palmer, kroell, cherry, souchak, those are the ones who were all four under and i was five under and i got nervous the next hole and i had a little i had a 12foot put and ran it that far by the hole and i had a ball mark in my way and i didnt have the presence of mind to know that i could fix a ball mark i. Knew it wasnt mine but youre not thinking clearly. So i three putted that, three put it had next green, missed a put like that at 16, missed an eightfooter at 17 and bogeyed 18 to lose the tournament. Arnold won the tournament. Thats fine. Hogan, he selfdestructed on 17 and 18. But, you know, all those things happened if i had won that tournament id have said boy, im really good. And i would havent learned the lessons, have had to learn how to do different things. And it was really one of the greatest things that happen misdemeanor n my career. Great experience playing with hogan. Rose why . He was unbelievable ball striker. He hit the previous 18 greens in regulation, hit the second every green in the second round and the first 34 holes i played with him the last day he hit every green in regulation. 52 greens in regulation. He was a machine. And i mean he couldnt have been nicer to play with. It was just he played just like i did. You know, he he gave you a few nice things to say and didnt really talk a lot, he talked a little bit. When it got to be his time to play golf it was all business. Thats sort of what i was. I was always business when it was my turn to play and what i was trying to do and i was trying to be pleasant in between. Hogan was pleasant in between. And it was just he was the kind of guy i enjoyed playing with. Rose as good a ball striker as theres ever been in golf . I think probably the best. I think trevino was awfully good, too. Rose ball strikers . Pure ball strikers . Uhhuh. Rose so in 63 you go to the masters and people are asking this question can he validate what he did at the u. S. Open . Is this guy how did you approach it . Well, i played the masters in 59, 60, 61, 62 i felt like i was really in a position to want to play well in 62 because i came very close in 60 and 61 as an amateur and 62 i didnt play very well. I finished 14th and i said it wasnt a very good tournament for me and so, you know, going into 63 actually, 63 i didnt know what was going to happen because i hurt hi hip earlier in the year and i was in San Francisco and i hit a second shot into the green in the proam at Lucky International which was at harding park and i couldnt hardly walk by the time i got to the green. I played the next day, missed the cut. I could hardly walk. I went to see dr. Wagner, a 49er doctor and he injected my hip and he said i want you to come back on monday morning, i want to give you an injection before you go. I went to palm springs and i w the Golf Tournament but i couldnt play left to right, i couldnt hit into my hip. I had to play around it. I proceeded to have 25 injections in my hip during the next month, ten weeks. And so finally my hip got all right but during that period of time i couldnt swing into , i had to i learned how to playwrighttoleft because i could play around my hip. So i went to augusta knowing that i never played righttoleft but i could because i had to play all spring. And i felt like i was going to play well. Shot 74 the first round. Not a good round, but i came back with 66. In the second round put in great position, good position to be right in what was going on and i ended up finishing it all. Rose you love the precision of the game more than the power of the game . I do. Always have, i think to me its always its more fun to play a really interesting little cut shot into a green or a high soft drawl or a little bumpandrun or something. I always thought those were fun shots. Rose you see the club as an extension of your hands . I see the club head as what im playing golf with. The golf club. And i like to feel and try to figure out how do i do because i visualize what i can do. I feel my swing. And if i can have the golf club in my hands in a way that i feel like i can perform the shot i want to perform, thats what i try to do. Of course obviously it takes practice to do that. You learn how the do it and learn where your hands need to be and where the club needs to be and how you can pit it in. But that to me was the fun of the game. The fun of the game is being able to outsmart the course, outsmart yourself and play within yourself and make sure the golf club is doing what you want it to do. Rose play within yourself so if you needed more power you had it . Meaning you dont try to do something you shouldnt do. In other words, if you went to augusta and youre saying wow, you know, im in good position in the tournament here but, you know, i think i can get home. Well, what are my chances of getting home . 5 out of 10 . Not very good odds. I dont like that. Now if i hit it down about 20 yards further sitting with a two or threeiron in my hand and im saying 19 times out of 20 im going to put the ball on the green or right around it, that to me are the odds i want. I dont want 5050. I want the 19 out of 20. And im going to try to make sure that that that 20th doesnt happen. Thats playing within yourself. Rose its also playing smart. Most people believe that you hit a oneiron better than anybody had ever hit a oneiron. And i love the oneiron. I just loved it. Because of all the things i could do with it. And people say why didnt you carry a fourwood instead of a oneiron . Well, to me fourwood was up in the air, there was too much to the elements. A oneiron i could always control the elements by hitting it down or hooking into it. I go back and i look at maybe the my three favorite shots that i ever hit were all oneiron shots. 67, u. S. Open at pebble beach in 72 and the masters in 75 at 15. All oneiron shots and i said at that time, i said ooh, was that fun i love when i hit a good shot i loved it. It was it got me charged up and excited. That was fun. Rose but what was it about you and golf that everybody said was going to a new era . Well, you know, that would be pretty difficult for me to answer. I was a 23yearold kid. Rose right. In 63 and, you know, all i my whole goal was to go out and play the game i knew how to play, play it to the best of my ability and try to be the best at it that i could be. Obviously the u. S. Open fell to me in 62, the masters in 63 and i always tried to climb mountains. I always felt like, you know, here i am, theres a lot of other guys out there that are awfully good and all of a sudden i went i must be better than i think i am. I won the next one and i said gee, i guess im better. Lets keep playing, keep trying to get better. Thats what i did most of my career. So i never thought about that i was changing something. Rose how important was the balance in your life that you had barbara and you had family and a place that gave you a center . Well, that to me was the most important thing. I mean, golf was never the most important thing in my life. I mean, golf my family was always number one and my golf was always number two. And, you know, whatever and i think that it was so important to me. And im ive got five kids, ive got 22 grand kids and when you when you look back at it, you look back and you say my kids all knew me, they all understood what i did and they were part of what i did and today we still talk about Football Games that i went to or basketball games that i went to, i made an effort to do things and the kids you know, i dont bring it up, they bring it up because they loved it. And, you know, i just feel really sad for a lot of people who were so focused on one thing that they didnt live the best part of life. Rose so no great regrets that you did not win a grand slam. Oh, i have regrets that i didnt win it, but i just didnt do it. Rose what ground do you remember the most in terms of you versus someone else . Is it watson . I dont know. I never really thought about me versus somebody else. Rose the duel in the sun . Well, that probably is probably the one round one tournament that i would probably i would probably remember more of the shots than any of the other ones. What i lost now, in that last round i can remember three or four shots, tournaments i won i can probably remember most of them. Ones i lose i usually get them out of my mind and forget about them. But that was a good one. Tom played great and i played very well, too. I missed i made the one mistake, i missed about a fivefooter at 17 and that cost me the tournament. But, you know, its the way it goes. Rose tra vino once said about you that you play badly better than anybody else. That you can play badly for you and still shoot a 68. Well, thats the secret to playing golf is to learn how to play how to score well playing badly. And i played i mean, i played poorly many, many, many times and i walked off the golf course inside 67 or 68 on my score card but i managed my game. Thats understanding who i was and what i could do and playing within myself and if im one thing i always did on the golf course, charlie, is i always try to correct myself. If i was not playing well, i didnt care if it was the last round of the u. S. Open and i didnt like what i was doing id make the change in the middle of the round. Now, i would play conservatively for a shot or two while i was working on it. But i knew the way i was playing i wasnt going to win so i needed to change and i needed to do it right then. So i did it and a lot of those tournaments i won. Rose how painful was it to realize you couldnt play it at the level you wanted to play it . Well, you know, its certain time in life thats going to happen. And fortunately i had a balanced life. Rose exactly. And if i hadnt had a balanced life it would have been tough for me. But it didnt bother me. When i knew that id lost my vehicle to my competition competition is what i loved. Golf just happened to be the vehicle to it. And so if and i love playing golf, obviously. But, you know, when i saw my skills eroding and i knew that, you know, ive got five kids, ive got five grand kids, ive got 22 great grand kids, ive got the ability to go i mean, im barbara, i didnt go today because you were coming. I missed a middle School Volleyball game and a high School Volleyball game. Rose you get joy out of that . I love doing it do i get joy out of it . Absolutely i love watching my grand kids play. Rose somebody once asked you how much credit did barbara deserve for the 18 majors and you said maybe 15 of them. That would be a good number. Rose laughs i want to give myself some credit. laughs barbara was fantastic. I mean, the beauty about barbara is that barbara knew what she was taking on well, she didnt know it exactly. She didnt know i was going gole knew i was an athlete and when we got married and i started playing golf she automatically, as smart as she is, and shes smart as a whip, she knew her life had to be second to mine otherwise i could never be successful. So she never badgered me about wanting to do this or do that or do this. We took our time off, sure, but why dont we go do this . That was fine. But never while i was playing. Never always let me do what i had to do. She raised the kids. She always made sure that shed get on an airplane aftertn friday and shed travel to california with three kids, couple of them in shed get off the airplane and watch saturday and sunday and then fly back with me. I mean, you know, i mean, how many women do that . She was fantastic. Rose Arnold Palmer. Arnold palmer was, you know, a great competitor. I mean, arnold came along at a time when we needed somebody in the game to take ahold and he grabbed the imagination of the public, the television was coming along. Arnolds out there, hitches up his pants and goes and wins the masters and the u. S. Open in the 1960 after winning the masters in 58. Around played a lot like they did. He had his shirt out, had a cigarette hanging out of his mouth, he drove it off in the trees and he played this slicer draw up around the trees. Arnold was i mean, i was a big Arnold Palmer fan, too. Arounds ten years older than i am so i watched arnold play a lot of golf and i love watching arnold play. You love watching the guy do those things. And then i got the chance to play with him. I was 18 years old first time i played with arnold. But, you know around was great for the game. Arnolds career as a major championship golfer didnt last a long time. Rose five or six years. 68 through 64. Didnt last a long time but he was very good at that point in time. Thats when arnold really putted well. He really putted well. And arnold the type of putter that arnold was was the type of putter that probably wasnt going to last. Because arnold was a guy who did not fear a fourfoot put coming back. And so hes ramming that ball up the hole and ramming the ball up the hole and hes putting this and im going to tell you, if you keep putting these all day long theyre going to get to you. And, you know, eventually thats probably probably i cant say positively but its arnold probably got to arnold because he stopped making the four footers coming back then he stopped getting aggressive going for the first put and soon he had to change the whole way he putted and that wasnt Arnold Palmer. Rose someone like s ef sr eu said every golfer who played after him should have given Arnold Palmer 25 of their earnings because he changed the game and then you came along and the rivalry between the two of you as short as it was made golf what it became. Well, i agree with sevis comment on that. Everybody owes arnold a debt of gratitude for what he he just happened to be the right guy in the right place. It could have been anybody but it happened to be Arnold Palmer. He handled it well. Rose how would you characterize the friendship . I would say very close. Rose thats what he said about you. We were very close. I love arnold like a brother. Hes hes we were great competitors. We i mean, arnold when i was 22 years old starting on the tour, arnold would fly, pick me up and wed go play exhibitions all over the country. We did that a lot. And, you know, we played the Team Championships together. We played ryder cup together. We played canada cup now world cup together. We played our wives were great friends. We traveled all over the place. Had a great time. And, you know, and one of us would beat the other one, wed finish the day, shake hands, walk away and say what are you doing for dinner . And thats neat. And thats the kind of friendship we had. We had a period where we sort of split a little bit but that was the time when arnold went to the senior tour and i was on the regular tour and we had ten years where we didnt play a lot together. Once i got to be a senior then he played a lot again and our friendship got closer because we were both after the same goals again and playing together. But its now, arnold is im very grateful to what arnold did for the game and what he did for me. Rose you dont have any regrets about this extraordinary game you played and, as you talk about the players, whats amazing to me is what makes golf so great great it is there is o perfect way to hit the ball. Everybody does it differently. Rose everybody does it differently. Exactly. Rose designing golf courses is your passion today. The land speaks to you. What does it say to you . Some land says ugh. Rose laughs and some land says wow. To me, though, my job as a designer is to be able to take any piece of ground and if its an ugh piece of ground i have to turn around and make it a wow. Thats the creativity that ive got to display and put it on that piece of property. If its a wow piece of property then its my job to use that piece of property and not screw it up and try to figure out how do i work best to put golf in there so that i dont mess the land up but i also bring the best in golf in it. Se because you want to take the best of it and not damage it and let it speak to you and use it so that. Absolutely. Rose . It takes you. There were a couple golf courses that i moved virtually zero dirt. And i think they turned out beautifully. Two, for example, is probably dismal river in nebraska. We moved 5,000 yards of dirt and the only 5,000 we moved was to take a little hill off, it was halfway to a green on a par 3. So the golf course itself we didnt move one yard of dirt to design the golf course. We found the golf course. Another was prong horn out in bend, oregon. And that was a piece of property that it was just absolutely gorgeous. It was sort of lava rock outcroppings and Everything Else and i think we moved maybe 15,000 yards of dirt and it was all a lake rose china. Youre big in china there. Yup. Rose youre building more courses in china than anywhere, i guess. Yup. China is the upandcoming pl