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one of a hero survivor. >> rose: we continue with the executive editor of the "new york times". >> the new place is the old place in many ways which is what the d distinishes the "tis" asuality joualisand we do that in print in the print newspaper and we do it in innovative ways digitally by the hour. we deepen stoes by bringing readers into the conversation, you enliven a story and add new dimensions to it and i've been very invested in our digital work and even arthur would use the phrase we have to be ready for r digital future. well, it's not the digital future, it's the digital president. >> rose: leymah gbowee and jill abramson when we continue. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: gbowee see here, she is a liberian peace and women's rights activist. e and the president of liberia were two of the three women awarded this year's nobel peace prize. in 2003, she led a coalition of christian and muslim women n a campaign to end liberia's civil war. their prote culminated in the exile of former president charles taylor. leashians electeded ellen johnson sirleaf who became the first fale president in modern african history. gbowee tells the story in her new book called "mighty be our powers: how sisterhood, prayer and sex changed a nation at war." i'm pleased to have her at this table for the first time tell me why this is a powerful story of our time and change. >> my story is the story of every african woman, who has lived true povert who has lived through abuse. but the beauty of that story is that even when people would think that having gone through the worst of life you would just. the story is the story of victory it proves that a hero or shero or survivor. so this is a story that the media in the west really doesn't contribute effortly the story of how women survive and how they build peace and thaw they bring the communities back to a state of sanity. >> as a young person you look at yoself and said "i'm intelligent, i beautiful, i can make a difference." and then later you realized it's going to be much harder than you imagined. what happened? >> yeah. well, growing up i had all of the confidence of a nmal teenager with good grades and thinking you're going to conquer the world. all a sudden one july morning i wake up at 17 going to the university to fulfill my dream of becoming a medical doctor and from 8:00 in the morning to 10:00 i became an adult fighting erupted, my parents were nowhere to be found. i am now responsible for over 20 persons in a home by virtue of the fact that i was the only child of my parents in that home later on they came back and my mother was like "continue as you've been doing for almost a week." it's like from teenager to woman hood in a matter of hours. then many decisions and acts of war and acts of my own... myself decisions by myself led me fro one stage to the other until where i felt like i was on top of the world. i got to the place where i was at the depth of my own life. >> you're married, you had one baby. and then... w sue knew this was not good for you. this is not a good place for you. >> well, it's, again, like many women in abusive relationships you're thinking okay, i have a child now, i want this child to grow up in a normal family setting. he's probably going to change. >> rose: your husband is going to change? he'll be better. >> yes. thgs will get betr. one child leads to a second child. a second child leads to a third child. and the longer you stay, the deeper you find yourself sinking into a state of no return. >> rose: what was the motivating factor for you to say "no longer i've got to go"? >> well, for me, i had in my head a place that i will not sink to. i took all of the physical beatings in private but always said to myself if i'm ever insulted publicly, that's the end. and so the cutoff point was one morning when i really got abused in front of the children packed my things and you would think it's crazy because you've lived through this for so long and what is verbal abuse but i just told myself enough was enough. pack my things, packed my kids and we went to the refugee camp and then hitchhike add ride to monrovia from gahn... from ghana to monrovia. but there was always this thing of did i make the right decision? was it the right choice? because, again, so self-esteem, no sense of future direction. then one morning my son would not come out and he said "grand ma, i woke up and i saw the net, d then i saw the man's shoe d i thought we had gone back to ghana becse i was afraid, i didn't want to be close to my father." at that moment i said to myself "what have done to my children?" >> rose: can women change africa? >> yes. and i think women are changing africa but you have little media spotlights on the things that they do. in the midst of poverty keeping communities going through their microeconomy and through their family and community activities. in the midst of hardship, in the midst of war, these t people who are negotiating peace at the community level. in liberia, the current feature of the war was when a young man in the community got arrested it was the women who would gond try to negotiate for his life. so these are things people don't see on a regular basis. women, they're doing what they think is okay to change africa. whe we find ourselves now is stepping into bigger space or different spaces to say we want to be involved in the conversation around our natural resources, we want to be involved in the conversation around the politics and the decision making of not jus our communities and our nation and i think once we continue to you're going to see some of the good changes on our continent. >> rose: and the president of leash ya w a fellow recipient of the nobel prize. >> she was one of the core recipients of the nobel peace prize and i think in six years lie year was at a place where it was really, really horrible but the twork is getting better, you find education being decentralized. different regions of liberia where people have to trek for dayso come t monrovia, the capital, far university are now boasng of universities in these areas big hospitals are coming up in different areas. she's she's really taking us from that place of social degradation to a place where the world is now looking at liberia as one of those nations if we continue in that trend. that will be a place where peoplewill really want to go and to do business. >> rose: so suppose your grandchildren come to you one day and they say "what did you do to overthrow charles taylor? at will you tell them? >> i will tell them that i took my pains, took my fears and turned it to courage and mobilized my fellow women and we did what we were supposed to do. we protested we were in the streets picketing. we spoke truth to power and we were able at the end of the day to draw attention to the problems that we were facing even after the attention was drawn to our problems we continue to push we succeeded in giving liberia and i think it will be at a place where my grandchildren are asking me where this count industry developed and you don't have any signs of war anymore so this nation you're seeing 20, 25, 30 years from now, 30 years fast forward, is at this place because of the work that we asked liberian women, by stepping out and confronting evil. i will be telling name story because i'll also want to bring them to a place where their fears, their pains, the anger can be translated in something positive to bring change to their communities >> it's an interesting phenomenon to be able to rise beyond your fear. i mean, clearly in the arab spring for all the problems, for people to risk their life they have to rise beyond their fear and that's exactly what you women did. >> definitely. but when you've lived through fear for so long you have nothing to be afraid of. i tell people i was 17 when the war started in liberia. i was 31 when we started protesting. i had taken enough dosage of fear that i had gotten immune to fear. >> rose: really. >> yes. >> rose: the first tim i saw a dead body i freaked out. but at 31 i crossed over a dead body without thinking twice. >> rose: do you want a political role? >> why not? and i think i'm definitely going to go for it. if you look at the players of politics in liberia, i don't think a lot of those people who even tried to run for the presidency of liberia, even for parliamentary are smarter than i am. >> rose: (laughs) i don't think so either. i can't imagine they are. >> a i don't think they have the interest of the country at heart like i do. so why would i not wan to run for politics and if politics is going to help bring liberiao the place that i wanto see beria and if my stepping into the space is going to do so i should stand up. >> rose: so you want to be president of liberia? >> the sky i the limit for me. i never put a limit to self. i could be president of liberia and do a very good job. >> rose: and what do you want to see happen to charles taylor? >> well, i hope he doesn't ever have the chance to see the light of day. never come out, never see the light of day. because for anyone who can unleash terror the way he did to liberians and the way he did allegedly involved in sierra leone, he shouldn't be allow to walk the streets. he shouldn't be allowed the pleasure of seeing his grandchildren. he shouldn't be allowed the pleasure of even living a decent life and i think the hague is too decent for him. >> rose: you would rather he had been taken care of in liberia? >> in a place where there's no electricity because there are people living within liberia... without electricity because of the terror he unleashed on them. there are people cooking outside because of the terror he unleashed on them. i would have lov to see anymore a place where he's not even sleeping on a bed or on a mat because, again, that's what he did to people in liberia. >> rose: so what he d to people, you'd be prepared to see him? >> he should really live and go through a fear of what he did to the people of liberia. all the money that has been spent on his comfort i think should go to the people who suffer the most. >> rose: the victims. >> yes. >> rose: all the money should go to the victims. >> it should go to the victims. and if they find some of his, it should be used to reconstruct and rehabilitate some of those places that were destroyed. today we're still struggling to get running water, electricity in liberia because one person one personecided... even when liberians forgave him in '97 and voted him as president, he decidedly continue to be a terrorist. >> rose: the idea ofomen's empowerment has great... has become a powerful idea around the world. what stands in theay of its achiing all that it's... all ofts potential. >> i think we have a lot of commitment, rhetoric, but the real action to empower women... the political will is lacking. someone once said in order to empower you must give up some of your power. >> rose: in order to gain power you have to give u power? >> you have to giv up some of your power. so if you want to mentor me as the next producer of the charlie rose show, you have to give up some days that you're sitting on the step because that's the only way i will be able to do the work the way you do it so i think globally a lot of our leaders are not prepared to give up some of the power that they have in order for women to step into the space. there's a lot of fear around women's empowerment. so we'll do all of those protocols and internaonal policies and instruments but when it comes to the actual and physical provision of the resources, taking actions, we will stay back. >> rose: do you think women will handle power differently than member? >> i think so. i have been... and i'm not saying... there haven't been women in history who have had powers and conducted themselves just like men, but i would want to say a vast majority of women would think more critilly before doing anything. i think most often you find some of the men not all of the men but the men who just think it's all abt themselves, all about their interests and all about different things. i'm tempted to say something abt the politics of the world, you know, how people are holding on the what is supposed to be for communities because of political eid yols. i would think that 50% of women in the particular parliaments would be thinking for the greater good of the people instead ofhe agea that they are pushing for. >> rose: are there any scars from your experience? >> yes, i have some traumas that i live with on a daily basis. one of those is that i cannot function in an orphanage with all of my advocacy and activism, i get paralyzed when i go to a place where children have been affected by conflict. i cannot move, i can't do anything, i can't think. myther trauma is that-- and thiss a crazy trauma-- at some point in time i had little or no underwear so now i just buy underwear, that's the other trauma i have. >> rose: you didn't have underwear so you just buy more than you need? >> yes, because i feelike maybe i'll get to that place where ill have only two so let me just keep buying. but that's the other trauma i have that from the war. food in my pant i have another trauma. so we just keep and keep and keep even when the kids cannot eat i should always have abundance of food in my pant voy these things i continue to carry for the rest of my life. >> rose: this is your story and memoir and this is what the president of liberia who shed the nobel prize with you, ellen johnson sirleaf. "leymah bore witness to the worst of humanity and helped bring liberia out of the dark. her memoir is a testament to the power of women, faith and the spirit of our great country." >> yup. and it's beyond the power of liberian women. i think... like i said elier it's the story of women globally who have gone through conflict. i'd just like the-to-step into this space to say that, you know i have been involved with abigail, the makerf the documentary "pray the devil back to hell" and they have done this five part series called "women, war and peace." and if you look at this story from afghanistan, from colombia, bosnia, and then the overview of war redefined you realize that women bear witness tohe worst, but then they're still able to come out and move their communities forward. >> rose: and achieve their potential. >> of course. >> rose: thank you. >> you're welcome. >> rose: jill abramson is here. she is the new executive editor of the "new york times." she the first won to hold that position since the paper was founded in 1851. she was a former investigative reporter who rose to prominence as a washington correspondent and editor. she joined the "times" in 1997 and has held a variety of positions including managing editor and washington bureau chief. jane mayer of the "new yorker" mag zen said "she i a vigorous defender of the truth and she is fearless." welcome. that is love affair, new >> it certainly is. but that's brought a lot of happiness and deght and to my life and my husband's and children's lives. >> rose: so it melts your heart down? >> it does. but hit in the beginning leaves you sleep deprived and worried about just about erything. >> rose: this is not the first dog? >> no, no. we h a dog before scout. we had a very hearty west highland white terrier who lived to be 16. >> rose: and so when that dog died did you immediately go looking for scout? >> no, my heartas like broken completely when buddy who was the westy when he passed away, he was in some ways my perfect relationship in life. >> rose: describe that. >> well, i am a huge walker and he was always up for getting outside. and some of my best... i alws say some of my best work time in many ways is spent walking the dog. either buddy or scout. because there's something about being surrounded by either beautiful new york city or with buddy we lived in virginia and just letting your mind roam free and you're with this coanionable animal who adores you who... you know, james thurber said, which is so true, you know, he made wonderful, wonderful cartoons of dogs but he said they're in a state of perpetual delight which is, like very unlike some of the other expeences e has during th day. >> rose: there's something to be said about "a dog's life." >> absolutely. absolutely >> rose: you get up and there they are waiting for you they want to go out. you feed them, they go out, you play with them, run, jump, do whatever you do. and you're engaged with them. they get you outside. that's great. and they get you outside before you go to bed, that's great. >> those are my favorite walks, the last one of the night. and in "the puppy diaries" i lk about how my husband was starting to have high blood pressure and having to take medicine and after we got scout-- because he walks with her all the time-- it's gone way down. >> rose: so what it is you want me to come away with, or somebody who going to read "the puppy diaries." >> it's a mixture of manual and memoir. man wall? this is a how-too book? >> it's part how-to and part memoir. it will tell you a lot about the various training methods that you can try with a dog. of course there no one perfect failafe system. and you learn a little bit about me and our family and the fact that my huand and i are part of a group. we gave it a name. a.b.b.d.s, aging baby boomers with dogs. >> rose: (laughs) >> and we are the fastest-growing segment of dog ownership in this country. >> rose: baby omers? >> aging baby boomers. who you have... thist in nest is empty. if you've had children they've gone to coege and are out of the hou and you find your lif a little empty and sad. >> rose: are you comfortable writing about yourself? >> i never had written about myself the times. i'd never written about animals, either. and in the beginning when i was doing the online column i wasn't comfortable but what i loved was reader interaction because i was doinit only online and what i discovered, i shouldn't have been surprised, is people are so passionate about their pets and their dogs the comments streamed in. i once was responsible for crashing our web site when i invited readers to send in pictures of their puppies and dogs the whole thing went down because they wanted to participate. so that interested me, that intensity, that passion, the fact that dog owners are a community of sorts and... >> rose: it's a common bond. >> at the "mes" i was beginning very seriously to focus on digital journalism and the whole issue of engagement and interaction wi readers. and i found that scout in t puppy diaries was an inviting wato begin both experimenting and that writing about myself wasn't that difficult. >> rose: let me talk about this job you've got. how d ey ierview for this? >> well, i talked to a number of high-ranking people on our business side. i had a long lunch with arthur salzburger, jr. i was nervous. he took know a very nice restaurant, i picked up my food. >> rose: and what did he want to know? >> he was very frank with me. he wanted to know about my vision of where the news report needed to go and he wanted to discuss both some of my strengths and some weaknesses. >> rose: so he had an appraisal of both strengths and weaknesses and whether they would make... >> and i thought they were quite fair. >> rose: anding a senate >> i thought they were accurate. >> rose: like what did hsay in >> he said that, you know, when i amin a bad mood i can be too usque with people and that you can just read it on my face tt there's, like, good scil who's delighted and engaged and wants to talk about a great story and compliments reports. >> rose: and bad jill is... >> would, like, interrupt and be bad. >> rose: does bad jill until or need to work on listening? >> she has to work on listening. she does. the. >> rose: (laughs) h