>> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> professor dlark armstrong dunbar is an author. her latest book is called never caught. the washingtons' relentless pursuit of their runaway slave, ona judge. it is the life of the slave in the first family and is a look at the washingtons and slavery. thank you, thank you, thank you. this book gives us a new way of seeing george washington. tell me more. >> it does. it was my goal when i wrote this book to tell a story about the founding of the nation, but through the eyes of the enslaved. not through a typical founding fathers. so ona judge's life gives us the ability to do that. she moves throughout the new nation and gives us a portal into the south, the mid-atlantic, and the north. >> i wasn't whispering to you but saying to you when you came on the set. it was fascinating to me to see the extent to which george washington told on himself with the almanac, the copious notes he was taking every day about his life and his goings and comings. i thought about all the historians over the years who have pored over these same notes and didn't find what you found. tell me about ona judge. >> i'm glad that george washington left so many notes. it helped with this book. and it allowed me to sort of read between lines. i think all of us who do african-american history and women's history, we have to do that. the archives are not spaces in which we find ourselves present. we have to read between lines and in some ways, i did that with "never caught. "but ona did that with her voices. she left two interviews at the end of her life so i could use that to put together her life. and she was representative of one of the people born at mt. vernon, born sometime in 1973 or 1974. we don't know exactly when. washington didn't record the birth date of end slaved. we know that she was the daughter of an enslaved women who was owned by martha washington. so ona and her mother betty were the human property of martha, martha washington. her father was an indentured servant. a white man. and washington had purchased his agreement. he was a tailor. ona's mother was a seamstress and smat point eleanor was born. by about the age of 10 she's brought to the mansion house to become basically a house slave. to learn the trade of being a seamstress and doing domestic work, and kind of moves up the ranks and becomes martha washington's top slave. so at the moment that george washington is elected president, the washingtons have to decide if they'll bring slaves in and they decide to bring slaves with them to new york. they choose seven people. seven enslaved men and we will. five men, two women and ona was one of them. that begins her trip to the north. >> keep going. we are just getting good now. >> this is good part. she arrives in new york in 1789 and it is the first time she's out of the slave south. but it is a place where slavery still exists. so does black freedom. and the stay in new york is brief. she actually spends the next six years in philadelphia which was the he saepicenter of black fre. no other place had as many free black people in the city and she watched this. so here she is. brought sort of as an enslaved person and she is in the minority. around her, she sees black men and women as entrepreneurs, building churches, like mother bethel church. and she sees it. she witnesses it. and at this moment where she is coming of age, no matter what the washingtons try to do, and they are very thoughtful and careful about keeping their enslaved people, enslaved people. in philadelphia, that becomes tricky. george and martha washington to have figure out how to work around the law to keep their slaves in the city. >> i read in your text what they did. you're being charitable here. i read what they did to get around the law. the law in that state, as i recall, you had to free your slaves after six months. so tell the story of what george and martha figured out to get around. >> they had to be careful and quickly. the laws were different in pennsylvania than north. the law stated that you, if you were a nonresident, you had to emanls participate why are slaves after six months. they couldn't stay longer than that. so george and martha washington, and all of this was written between george washington, his secretary, tobias, as well as martha washington. they basically came up with a rotation plan. a slave rotation plan where they would rotate their slaves from pennsylvania to virginia every six months in order to avoid the law. what i say is he is not necessarily breaking the law but the spirit of the law. in order to maintain his property. >> this is president. >> yes. >> not funny but it is. >> what then? i don't want to give the whole story away. but what then occasions the opportunity for ona to get free from them? because as we said a moment ago, as she is seeing thought freedom in philadelphia. and i think that courage is contagious. when people get a taste of that and a sense of that, they know what their lives ought to represent. so as i read your book. it is just a matter of time. it is just a matter of time. she has seen what life can be. so what occasions, the opportunity to break free? >> she's around this freedom for years. there is a crucial moment in the spring of 1796 that changes ona's life. and she finds out, there are two things happening. one, george washington decides tonight run for a third term in office. the family knows it that you the public does not. so all the slaves, there were up to ninth people end slaved in philadelphia. they know they're going back to mount vernon and this doesn't really sit well ona judge. the real trigger is the moment she finds out there will be a change in her ownership. and that one of martha washington's grandchildren, a grand child from her first marriage. martha washington was married once before george washington. her grand daughter had sort of rushed into a hurried marriage. and she worried about her and she made the decision that she would give ona away as a wedding gift. when ona catches wind of this, the trigger was pulled. she says in her interview later on in her life that she would never be her slave. so she knew eliza. and she knew this was a woman her age who had a reputation for being kind of volcanic. and the years in the north and knowing her ownership would change made ona make the decision to free herself. >> all right. so don't give the whole story away. i only have a minute to go. so you get the book and you read what she did and how she got away. i want to advance quickly to this question. how as the book suggests, never caught, without telling us how she got away and who helps her. how did she never get caught? she lived 50 years past martha and george washington. how did she never get caught? >> yeah. she spent nearly half a century as fugitive. it was her courage. it was her bravery. but also, it was the help of the free black community that harbored her, that kept her safe in the tradition of what we know later on is an underground railroad of people who put themselves in jeopardy in order to help runaways. that was ona. it was the free black community. white men and women and the location to which she ran that kept her safe. i think what is so incredible about this story is that for really the rest of george washington's life, he pursued her. had and so no matter how long he lived or how long martha washington lived, ona judge knew that she was someone else' property and she remain that had for the entire of her life. it meant her children were also never to be free. >> sounds like a movie to me. how about we call at this time fugitive? i digress. it is a powerful story and this ought to be a movie. i think of the movie, hidden figures. how empowering that story was. and it reminds me, there are so many stories like these that we just don't know. people like you who dig it up and to unearth it. thank you for writing the book. it is called never caught. the relentless pursuit of the runaway slave, ona jflt up next, actor and comedian cheech marin with his memoir. stay with us. cheech marvin best nobody as the one half of the comedy team cheech and chong. he is out with a new memoir. cheech is not my real name but don't call me chong. nice to have you back on the program. >> always nice to see you. >> i didn't know the back story for how you got this nick nail. >> when i was a little bit, just coming hole from the hospital, two days hold. he said he looks like a had chicharron. he said i looked like a potato chip. so it stuck. >> that's not the best compliment puflt look like -- >> well, to mexicans -- certain connotation. >> and that name stuck all those years. >> yes. to my family. to the rest of the word i was richard. and they were trying to come up with a name for the now duo. they said richard and tommy, marin, do you have a nickname? well, cheech is my nickname. and that was it. >> isn't that funny how things, you were coming home from the hospital. you get this nickname. it works so well with chong and the rest is history. >> that's fate. >> the statute of limitations. >> i had no idea, given the subject of your movie. you're the son of a cop. >> lapd, 30 years. how did that happen? >> you know, it was a family profession. two of my uncles were cops. not really uncles. he was the highest in the force. that was the family business. >> and you didn't feel chastised about your behavior, given that your father is an officer of the law? >> the funniest thing is cops were our biggest fan. wherever we went. they got humor of it. they dealt with it every day. and we had the amiable personalities. my dad loved it. he was juvenile. they wanted the records. did you ever hear of cheech and chong? have you seen there guy? >> i was thinking, i'm so glad you talked about it in the book. but this is the 30th anniversary of born in east l.a. and for those of us who know the movie, what it is all about, what do you make of this being the third anniversary of that film? in this moment, immigration being such a -- >> like ground hog day. it seems happening over and over again. we don't seem to have earned it. we seem to know less about it and the whole process. i feel like a lot of us, you just assistant in front of it. i wouldn't recommend it. this is the inner weaving of mexico and the united states is never going to be unwoven. never, ever. nor do we want it to be. mexico is our biggest ally. >> i don't mean to make a political issue of it. what do you make of the all out assault and afront on the issue, immigration? >> i don't think it is based, it is based on fear and it is based on not a lot of information. i travel country and i see the integration of the latino influence all over. new york is the biggest concentration of mexicans. chicago, second biggest concentration in the country. to peek a kansas has more mexican restaurants than mcdonald's. and it is a gift to the country. not a threat. >> how were you treated or maltreated because of your back ground? >> i was mexican in a black neighborhood. yo mexican! >> i grew up on south central. predominantly black. and one lost white guy. so it was normal for me. that was all my friends. that's who i went to school with. a good story about bobo brazil. so then, my dad was involved in the shooting next door, the barber shop next door. and then we moved after that to granada hills. one day everybody in the neighborhood was black. the next day, everybody was white. how does this go? i don't know this tune. >> and how did you process it? >> i kind of ignored it. unless they confront me. it was an opportunity toley in the country and hear crickets and orange groves and stuff like that. >> how did you process going from an all black neighborhood to an all white neighborhood? >> it's changed. i was always the littlest in every class. so that's how i processed this. i'm a little kid in this new neighborhood. it didn't really matter to me if they were black or white. they were bigger. >> you mentioned bubba brazil. >> he was a legendary wrestler. the first black champion and he was a big, big guy. 6'5", 230, solid muscle. and he had the bolo punch or the head punt. when you're a kid wrestling. i used to watch it with my grandmother who didn't speak english. you don't need it. look out behind you! it was at the olympic auditorium which wasn't too far from my house. my best friend jesse who lives right across the street from the school. his mother did the laundry. they used to pull up in a big cadillac zebra. the whole school would rush over to his car. and jesse being my best friend, he would call us over and give us a quarter. and i have a quarter too. so like the whole school was my first brush show business. i'm into this. it was great. >> when did you know? there are some great stories about how you and chong got together with the club that he owned. maybe you'll tell some of that. when did you think that entertainment was what you were destined to do? >> first grade. kindergarten. he was in the christmas play. we were, up on the roof top, for some reason i got chosen to play the kettle drum. i was the littlest guy so you couldn't see me. a paper bag with a gold star and all could you see was this little gold star bouncing around. then up on the house, boom, boom, boom. and everybody started laughing. i didn't know why. next time they got around. bigger laughter. then it was bigger laughter. >> and you've been hitting everything. i knewists destined. i was an anomaly. a little kid who could sing in tune. squeaky but in tune. >> when we think of your boring over the years, we think of the mexican hispanic influence. yet i want to go back to that neighborhood in south central. how much did black culture influence your stuff? >> it was one of the primary influees on my early life because of the music. it was next to central avenue. johnny otis used to play down street. and the r & b, my sense of humor came from that relaxed attitude. and tommy, the sail thing. he grew up inner canada and found only black neighborhood calgary. everybody came from texas and they said what's the farthest away from texas we can get on this money? and they ended up in canada in a place called amber valley. and his wife, maxine, and her brother, who was the drummer for three dog night. so there again, tommy was immersed in that r & b scene. t the music. that's how we understood each other. and the rhythm. >> the comedy, you know. there can be insightful. >> this is the 30th anniversary of east l.a. the 40th anniversary of it, up in smoke. here again you're ahead of your time. last year, there were more ballot initiatives. what do you make -- >> again, the timeliness friflt years later of that film. >> it was amazing. we had gone through a period, we were very successful. at the end, all of a sudden we got into movies. and then it starts again. but with the movie period identified was this global stoner culture. and it was global. and so we were international right away from that. because they could see it. they could see who these two guys are. those guys look like me. that was a big thing. to be on the world stage. immediately. >> before i let you go, tell me about the decision you made to sort of go solo? and obviously it worked out. sometimes when you step out, peel step out and it doesn't quite work out. you've come back together when you needed to. you know, i had a lot of confidence doing that. wasn't like, i'd been doing that all through the movies. predator or not. i didn't matter to me. as far as being able to lift 100 pounds, i've been lifting 100 pounds every day. i knew i could do it. it was nice to get a chance to make that kind of political commentary in this street comedy. i'm a classic, charlie chaplain, the guys who live by their wits on the street. had a certain amount of charlie and rascalness. and that's who i was. and i knew i could do it. and i knew the audience was ready for it. it was cool. it felt good. >> growing up in south central, did you ever have any idea that it would turn out to be this good for you all these years later? >> well, you know, i just wanted to have a job. someone who would pay me. i was a good student. i was a teacher's worst nightmare. i was an a student but they couldn't shut me up and they couldn't fail me. >> you've still got it all these years later. the book is called cheech is not my real name but don't call me chong. good to have you on. >> that's our show for tonight. thanks for watching. as always, keep the faith. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. >> hi. i'm tavis smiley. join me next time for a conversation with bob newhart. that's next time. see you then. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. tuscany is named after the etruscan people who lived here centuries before this region was conquered by ancient rome. over 2,500 years ago, long before anybody had heard of julius caesar, and back when rome was still just a small town, the etruscan civilization flourished in this part of italy. etruscan tombs are scattered all over the countryside, located both on good maps and on signposts. we're dropping in on a farm to visit the tomb of the hescanas family. this tomb, cut out of solid tufa rock, was discovered by the farmer's grandfather. what little we know about the etruscans we've learned mostly from their fresco-covered tombs. [ speaking italian ] the farmer tells me that this tomb dates back to about 350 b.c. [ speaking italian ] the entire family was buried in several sarcophagi in this tomb. -[ speaking italian ] steves: we can read the family name, spelled what we would call backwards -- "hescanas." the faint but still readable frescos take us back to the funeral ritual. signor hescanas rides the chariot into the afterlife. it's a pre-christian judgment day as a divine magistrate deliberates his case. a heavenly chamber orchestra provides music as women in fine gowns and jewelry dance. the motion and realism captured by the 4th-century b.c. artist is impressive. looking at this evidence of such an advanced civilization, it's amazing that these earliest tuscans are still largely a mystery. with the rise of rome, etruscan civilization vanished, steamrolled and absorbed into that mighty empire. now, with each tomb excavated, archeologists are piecing together the mysterious puzzle of etruscan culture. good evening. first we'll hear from simone campbell. she leads the group, network, which lobbies in washington for hairk and anti-poverty measures. you may remember her from the nuns on the bus tour which made national news a few years ago. then we'll catch one arturo sandoval about his latest projects and his controversial facebook comments after the death of cuban leader fidel castro. we're glad you've joined us. sister simone sandoval in just a moment.