♪ and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. reaction to the tragic shooting of michael brown, an unarmed teenager, by a police officer prompted a media frenzy, to be sure. outraged protest and thousands of hours of opinion by pundits and politicians pointing just how difficult it is for americans still to deal with issues of racial inequality. a recent pugh survey found that only 37% of white americans believe michael brown's death raised important issues about race, while 80% of african-americans say that it did. joining us now from providence, rhode island, to discuss where we need to go as a country is dr. tricia rose, director of the center for the study of race and ethnicity in america at brown university. tricia rose, good to have you on the program. let me jump right in with this pugh study, i guess i'm not fascinated. i saw these same kinds of numbers after rodney king in l.a., same kinds of numbers after trayvon martin not too long ago. i guess the numbers by pugh don't really surprise me. but what do you make of the fact that 37% of white folks say this really doesn't raise race questions, in my mind, but 80% of black folk think it's time for a conversation about race in america? >> well, i think the consistency of this tremendous gap in perception speaks to the condition we faced in this post civil rights era, that we're really living two different types of realities and the illiteracy about racism allows many whites to believe that their comfort and privileges and ease of travel and motion and opportunity is not actually at the expense of another constituency, so that is really what explains these numbers. it's not so much one policeman, one child, one individual, who did what, it's an overall set of experiences driven by structural racism and the illiteracy we perpetuate about it. >> is there anything, then, to your point about the illiteracy we suffer about race, anything in your mind that can be done about the role of implicit bias in matters like these? i saw nicolas kristof in the new york times, white guy, write a piece about this, other white columnists and pundits that try to raise this issue, this notion of white skinned fr ened privil what is there to be done in america, anything? >> there's plenty to be done. the real question is, how do we generate the will to do it, but more to your question about implicit bias. there's been interesting research how implicit bias shapes large interactions, for example, the article you refer speaks to doctors giving african-americans less pain medicine, even when their symptoms are as or more acute, so clearly, these aren't individuals harboring, necessarily, racial attitudes that are explicitly, intentionally negative, but that a set of perceptions, deep-seeded perceptions about black people, about their bodies, about their minds, about their value, about whether or not they are safe for society, but i think what we really want to ask are bigger questions about the workings of structural racism. how does that whole system and process work to produce significant racial inequality, and then we're not in this business of sort of personal bias and we don't end up with how i think that article ended, well, we're all just a little bit racist and what can we do about it? i guess we're just going to have to deal with it. that's the wrong answer and focus. there's much more work we can do if we're willing to discuss the serious structural impediments in every aspect of life. >> i couldn't agree more. i thought he started up in the right place and ended up with a flat and weak close, in all due respect. i thought his close could have been stronger. having said that, how much of this has to do fundamentally with a lack of disrespect on the part of too many fellow citizens for the digny and humanity of other fellow citizens? getting to a conversation about structural racism is real, but at the bottom of all of this is the fundamental lack of respect for the dignity and humanity for some people by some people. what is to be done about that, if anything? >> you know, of course, dignity is extremely important, and we need a lot of spiritual work around how to humanize each other and treat each other properly, but frankly, i think a lot of people think they are already there and that gap between what they think is going on and the beauty of their intentions and the reality of the conditions that structure black life is too great to really traverse just with spiritual work, so we have a lot of what i call antiracist educational work, and unfortunately, in the last 40 years, antiracist work has been very systemically equated with sort of antiwhite work, which is really not what it is. it's antiracist work. many of the most significant antiracist workers are of all kinds of racial backgrounds, and we have to really separate out people's personal identities to how structures impede significantly impede black life in every aspect. that's a tremendous amount of educational work that i think will enhance the spiritual work and prevent the kind of constant aha, which is what we get here, sort of, wow, really, this happened, this is a big problem, oh, what are we going to do, because we don't have a systemic comprehension of what's going on. >> i want to ask a open-ended question, because i'm curious to get inside your head. as you've been watching these conversations and i've been watching these conversations, i'm curious, dr. rose, as to what has been missing, writ large, what has been missing to your mind from this conversation in america about michael brown and the issues that are apper taning there to? >> i've been struck by the repetition of the highly individualistic story, so that's to say that we understand the story by thinking through who michael brown was or who the officer was and what they did in the hours before, the hours after, and sort of how -- whether or not we can assign guilt or blame and this kind of highly almost court case framework for a circumstance that is so clearly much, much bigger than that. and that perpetual pattern of individual blame and causality and withholding judgment, you know, it seems to me if this were just about the family being outraged, that would be one thing. people do not put their lives on the line in the way young people, old people, middle-aged people did in ferguson just because one person was mistakenly perhaps shot by one officer. you have to understand that level of outrage, that level of suffering, that level of pain, that level of ddespair as somet much bigger. that question, wow, why would so many people be so outraged if this were just one case, that should lead the mainstream media to a more systemic structural analysis, what are the ways in which housing and wealth and income and education and police brutality and unjust sentencing and the general industrial complex and all of the other kinds of factors that really create, really a suffocating kind of desperation and frustration for young men of color and especially young black boys and girls. what are those conditions about, and how do they work together to create a suffocating web? that's what the stories should be about, because you can't understand mike brown as an individual story and all of the things that have happened in ferguson. it just doesn't make any sense in that context, and that's been a shocking, shocking gap. >> what you said makes perfect sense to me, but you're asking for a cultural competency on the part of the media i don't think exists, you're asking to connect dots that make sense to me and other persons of good will and conscience. before my time runs out, since you referenced now so many different policy implications and so many policy dots that ought to be connected, let me speak to myself and get your take on this, i've been kind of steaming on the inside for the last few days at the democratic party's blatant attempt to use this situation in ferguson to get votes and to save their hides come november. now let me be very clear, i'm all for voter registration, i'm for voter mobilization, but it's been sickening to me, quite frankly, given what didn't happen on the front side of this to see the way the democratic party says just attacks an entire campaign to using what happened in ferguson as a way in to get votes to make sure they don't lose in the midterm elections. we don't have enough time to drill deeply, but i know you've seen the same story i've seen. what's your read on how the democratic party is using this to get votes come november? >> well, it is, obviously, strategic and self serving in a way that's almost embarrassing, but i'll tell you where i would focus my emphasis to augment your totally legitimate outrage and opportunism, right, which is what drives that agenda and makes it a little bit disturbing, but where i would focus is the fact that they are able to capital idaho an apparent lack of leadership on the ground, cultivating a consciousness among young people that this doesn't represent the only political mode of engagement. if we could really help use ferguson and any number of similar cases in situations, as well as ongoing conditions, to really foment in the 21st century, then the democratic party's voting turnout wouldn't guarantee anything for them, per se, we'd be able to hold them accountable in regional, state, and federal contexts that wouldn't make it so automatic for them to take black voters for granted and not necessarily deliver. there's nothing wrong with that if we have a movement that allows and channels the political energy into meaningful structural change on the ground. >> finally, do you see anything good coming out of this? >> listen, you know, i'm sure people might be listening and watching and saying, you know, how could she be optimistic, how is that possible after all the depressing things she's pointed out, but i have an enormous sense of hope and optimism for the future, partly because i have such faith in young people. there's been no social movement that took place, that had a requisite level of courage and human connection and surprising levels of reaching out across surprising, you know, gaps and odds. that means that young people are the real future here, and so i'm always, always hopeful because of that. at the same time, i don't have that kind of, oh, it's all going to be okay hope. there's a ton of work. we have to roll up our sleeves, and we have to really stop allowing the kind of lie of the post civil rights era because the law is different, that the practice is different, that the reality is different. we have to really speak to that gap and contradiction and inspire young people to have the courage that they already have to do what needs to be done, and, of course, we need to get along, but we can't be in the front of the line forever. young people have to carry this fight forward. >> dr. tricia rose, tricia, as always, good to have you back on this program. >> thank you, tavis, my pleasure. coming up, multiple grammy winner sergio mendes with a new project. stay with us. ♪ i'm honored to welcome for the first time to this set, hopefully not the last time, multiple grammy winner sergio mendes. his breakthrough album was "brazil 66," his career now spans some 50 years, and he shows no signs of slowing down. his latest cd is called "magic" and features janelle monet, john legend, as well as brazilian guest vocalists. he was nominated for best song for the animated film "rio." let's take a look at sergio mendes performing in san francisco just a few weeks ago. ♪ ♪ >> still at it, man, still sounding good. >> thank you, man, pleasure to be here. >> pleasure to have you here. what motivates you these days to keep doing this? >> i think, you know, i love music. i mean, that's in my blood, and growing up in brazil and music was part of my life and still is very important part of my life, and i love traveling. i love making records and playing live with my band, as you can see. and just having fun. >> yeah, how did you first get introduced to music? >> i learned classical music when i was seven years old. i got -- my mom got me a piano, my father was a doctor, and i learned classical music. when i was about 13 years old, somebody played me a jazz record, and i said, wow, this is -- i never heard it. you know, i was playing beethoven and things like that. all of a sudden i hear this record, big five, i said, man, i love that. so from that day on, i start, you know, learning those chords and listening to more jazz, being exposed to people like bret powell, silver, charlie parker. jazz was the love of my life. then like in the early sixes, barcelona. it was a period in brazilian music where fantastic melodies, fantastic songs, and came to united states the first time in 1962. they had a concert at carnegie hall. so i arrived, i think, 20 years old, arrive at carnegie hall. gillespie, and i was there with them, so for me, wow, i love this. that's it. and the next day i went to hear, he invited me to do an album with him. so it's been magical, my life, actually, my journey. that's why i call this album "magic." the whole thing is beautiful, i'm blessed, and i'm lucky. it's a magical process, the magic of the encounter, i think, meeting and greeting people in your life that open doors for you and introduce you to new things. i love to learn. i'm very curious. >> i wanted to ask why you called the project "magic," i get it now. i'm fascinated by that phrase, the magic of the encounter. tell me more about that, what you mean by that. >> i mean, in life, there's certain things in life which happen to you, which i happen to call the magic, when you meet people you never thought you were going to meet. it was not planned. you want to call it destiny, karma, whatever, i like the word magic of the encounter, because the people that i met in my life that helped me so much and that's the reason where, you know, i am where i am in terms of career, from meeting, you know, people like i told you, and meeting people like herb albert and jerry moss and will i. am and quincy jones, you know, meeting all those people, working with those people, frank sinatra, did a couple tours with him. so it's been a series of magical encounters in my life, which i'm so grateful and i'm so happy to have had that. >> take me back to brazil 66 and what that did, what that album that herb introduced you all to the american public with, did for your career. >> yes. i was here in l.a. rehearsing. i had a band, we were looking for a job. melrose avenue, studio of a friend of mine. record people used to come there and listen, they were listening to bands all over town. somebody told that was a brazilian band rehearsing and when they walked in, herb and jerry, and the young guys, good looking guys, and they heard this song, and they said to me, listen, we're just starting a label. herb has a band called the tijuana brass and we'd love you to join us. magical encounter, here we go again. i signed with a&m. the year was 1966, so this song was a huge hit all over the world. first time a song in portuguese became a hit ever. then again 40 years later, willawill i. am. >> we're going to start a little record label, turns out to be a&m, and everybody and anybody has been on that label for years. >> we're still very, very close friends. lonny was my singer then. >> of course. >> how great that is. how beautiful. >> this is actually taking a page out of quincy jones' playbook, and one of the things that's always kept q. young is q. loves hanging out with young people and you're the same way. on this album you have john legend, monet, willi.am. what is it about them that makes you want to be around them, spend time with them? >> i think the fresh energy, spontaneity. will was like a volcano of itáhyou know, creative and fresh. it's always that wonderful, and i love to learn. i'm so curious. >> even now? >> oh, yeah. i'm learning talking to you. yeah. so with john legend, the same thing. i wrote this melody at home, send him to him on mp3, five minutes later, i love this melody, i'm going to write lyrics, i love to sing, there you go again. we got together, same with janelle monet, i met her, i was part of producing music for "rio 2" and janelle wrote the opening song. they all have the same component of curiosity and they want to share ideas. for me, it motivates me a lot. >> beyond the collaborations, how would you describe what this project "magic" is musically? >> i think it also shows the diversity of brazilian music, because brazilian music, people talk about barcelona, people talk about samba, but brazilian music is so diverse, that's what makes it so interesting. if you go -- when i started this project i went to work with my friend in el salvador and the music there is totally different than the music from rio de janeiro, i talk to you places like that, but it's amazing the diversity. and that diversity is what really seduced the world. i mean if you go back to recording, that was that melody, incredible melody. i'm a melody guy. i love melodies. so does john legend, so does willa i. am. >> you admit that melody is becoming visible in so much of music today. >> unfortunately, yes, yeah. but, you know, things go in cycle. i'm not going to be -- because, you know, this is a country that, you know, we had gerschwin, fantastic melodies, but when you talk to john legend or janelle or will or any of my guests, they love melody. look at john legend's song now, it's number one all over the world. it's a beautiful melody. not this one, i hope this one will be, too, but his song. the love of melody for me, it's what this album is all about. also the diversity. if you listen samba one to the end, to the last song, different rhythms, different collars. amazing, i also have on this album i must tell you, i mention about going to rio de janeiro, but i come back to l.a. and invite, for instance, alphonso johnson to play base. now alphonso played with miles, with the weather report. i mean, it's just amazing. p.j. playing guitar, paul jackson jr., so that whole combination of incredible musicians and people, that's also what i call magic. >> is brazil still churning out great vocalists? the country has a rich tradition of great vocalists. >> yes, yes, they are the three vocalists there, one is called sir georgie. sir georgie is an amazing singer. he's living in l.a. right now. it's called soil, which means it's me. there's a girl named maria, 27 years old. sir georgie is 37. there's some young brazilian artists and singers on this project that made me so happy, as well. >> the new project from sergio mendes is called "magic," and it is a magical project, some great artists, janelle monet, john legend, will i. am, you won't be disappointed. sergio, good to have you on this program. >> my pleasure, tavis. before we close tonight, i want to pay tribute to joan rivers, who died at the age of 81 with her daughter and friends by her side. i was honored to have her on this set for a two-part conversation just months ago. she was someone i wanted to talk with since this program started 11 years ago. she was the first comic i saw when i came to l.a. 27 years ago. our conversation touched on so many things that were important to her, her family, ability to make people laugh, and how she broke down barriers for other women comics, and most of all, how she loved what she did. she will be missed. that's our show for tonight. thanks for watching, and as always, keep the faith. for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. hi, i'm tavis smiley, join me next time for a conversation with public enemy's chuck d about the release of his new solo project. that's next time. we'll see you then. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. tonight on quest -- cell biologists have a new tool in their toolbox. see how this powerful x-ray microscope generates amazingly detailed, 3-d images of cells-images which are leading to advances in disease treatment and biofuels research. and -- meet the bay area scientists whose collaboration is pushing the boundaries of "bio-inspired" design and generating some pretty cool creatures. support for quest is provided by -- the s. d. bechtel jr. foundation -- the david b. gold foundation --

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