>> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. tavis: earlier this year, the families of the four little girls that died in the infamous birmingham church bombing were in the white house for the signing -- they were murdered 50 years ago the sunday while preparing for sunday school at the 16th street baptist church in birmingham. joining me now is douglas jones committee prosecuting attorney who more than two decades later led the team that secured convictions for two of the four klansmen responsible for the murders. i am always honored and humbled to be in conversation with you, sir. >> thank you for having us. great to be back with you, tavis. tavis: for those of you who were not aware of what happened come it has been 50 years. top line for me what happened that morning at the 16th street baptist church. >> birmingham leading up to september 16 was a powder cake. ordered schools to be desegregated for the first time ever. we were coming off of the marches with the fire hoses the dogs. is city was like a powder keg. kids inday morning, the birmingham in the church would be the focal point of the mass meetings and would be the first of a series of youth worship services. sometime in the middle of the night, some klansmen put it wrong in the bottom step that led to the back of the sanctuary. was in front of the window to the ladies lounge. inside that land were four young girls. they were getting ready to participate in the bomb went off at 10:22, taking out those lives and wounding, horribly wounding the fifth girl. is amazing about these commemorations 50 years later's is the nation nuggets to see the proximity of the "i have a dream" speech that are totally thinking gave in washington and days later the bombing of the church in birmingham, alabama her. you now realize that it was literally days later in birmingham that this church bombing took lace. -- took place. dr. king went there to give the eulogy for these four little girls, the only time we have him on record crying in public. he couldn't even get through his eulogy without crying. talk to me about the timing of this. of the more of a sense proximity to this great march and then days later here is what happened as they called it at the time in bombingham, alabama. contenteries that the -- the series of events that took place was a settlement to desegregated facilities in birmingham. every positive, step that the civil rights movement was raining, the clan was getting mourn happy and they resorted to more violence. we had so much violence that summer. we had the stand in the schoolhouse door. the clan was unhappy with that. they march on washington was the culmination. all of a sudden, people across america realized that this is real. but there's true hope and true change that is on the way. but that was not in my opinion the galvanizing force. the klan was still very angry. they did not accept that. on september 15, when this bomb exploded and these innocent children died from a bomb in a house of worship on a sunday morning, that i believe is what truly started the change in america and started changing people's hearts. they knew that at that point a civilized society cannot continue along the path we had and the resistance had to fall. it had to follow that point and we had to start working together to make things happen in a progressive way. tavis: you are a hero in the state of alabama and throughout the south and, for that matter, cross america because, between 1963 in 1997, there is a huge gap. in 1997 committee stepped on the stage and lead a team of attorneys to reopen the case from 1963. what you did to get these two convictions, give me a sense legally of what was happening or not happening between 1963 in 1997. >> a lot of people criticize the fbi because these cases were not solved in the 1960s. candidly, they did an incredible job to try to investigate these cases. they had boots on the ground all of the place and did a wonderful job, but not all cases can be solved and shut up at the appropriate time. it took 1977, when the first of these cases was actually tried, a fellow named robert kamas was tried for the murder of denise mcnair. it changes you. when you see the importance of these events, never dreaming that 24 years later i would have the opportunity to finish that job, and things happen for a purpose. and things began to happen in 1990sid-: -- in the mid- with the murder of a drivers trial -- murder of edgar evers trial. people said, yeah, you can go back and take the evidence from old and couple it with new evidence and actually achieve a sense of justice that had been done for three decades or more. ofis: give me some sense what you and your team were able to do in 1997 to piece together the information. i am always amazed by brilliant attorneys and investigators who all these years later, i mean, that many years have gone by, you can piece together evidence that allows you to get two successful convictions. >> first of all, we had brilliant investigators. erron did a wonderful job availableing every suspect and person and tracking those who were alive and figure out those who had passed. public, that we were reopening this investigation, the phone started ringing. people who talk with frank cherry over the years called us to talk about his admissions. we had a granddaughter, next wife, the ex-wives brother, if a low who was friends -- a fellow who was friends with cherry's oldest son mall calling to tell us about admissions that cherry made. with regard to the blanton cases, we had one individual who had seen blanton and chambliss two weeks before the bombing who testified at our grand jury. he had a stroke and had to read his testimony at trial. we were able to pull that together. the must ignore the in thing in blanton was without a tape therding made by a bug that ei had put in his house in 1964. had put in his house in 1964. it was a devastating tape. it was damning to him. cherry had lied so many times. it was a methodical way to put the pieces of evidence together. and you could not have done it without an incredible team of investigators, personnel, and the u.s. attorney's office and the state of of alabama. tavis: i want to make room later in the show to talk with two of the sisters of two of the murdered four little girls 50 years ago. before i let you go, i know that the birmingham civil rights museum is a great institution. i've been there many times and have done a lot of work with them. there is a wonderful exhibit that tells of the work that you and the team did in detail to get this case open again. if you're ever in birmingham, please stop i the birmingham civil rights museum and see the details of actual evidence and see it for yourself, the evidence that doug jones and others used to get these convictions. let me close by asking whether or not -- i know there's so much left for you to do. you are a young guy and so much love for you to do in your life. do you imagine that there is anything else you could accomplish that would ring you a greater sense of contribution than you were able to do between 1997 and 2001? >> that's an easy question. there is no way i can top this as a lawyer or as a person. it was an amazing ride. as i was growing up in birmingham, i never dreamed i would have an opportunity to do so much that meant so much to so many people all across the country, not just your in birmingham -- not just here in birmingham. as long as i can live and breathe and tell the story, i will continue to get that satisfaction every day. and i out the -- and i appreciate the opportunity to tell you the story once again. , good touglas jones have you on. all the best to you and think you for your contribution here in >> come see us again soon. tavis: coming up, a conversation with lisa mcnair, sister of denise mcnair killed the two years ago in that church. stay with us. lisa mcnair's sister denise was only 11 years old, which made her the youngest in her life was cut short by the bombing at the 16th street baptist church. she is in washington this week for the commemoration of that event. lisa, as always, good to talk to you. >> good to talk to you, too, tavis. tavis: how are your mom and dad? >> they are good. no one everwn that closes on the death of a loved one like you close on a house, but i hope that this is bittersweet in the commemoration that these four little girls are finally getting the recognition that they deserve with this congressional gold medal. it is the highest honor that any civilian in the country can receive. i know they have to be at least be heartened by the recognition that their baby is getting. >> yes, they are so excited and so moved and so grateful of this honor and the fact that it is nationwide and so many people will learn their story and keep their memory alive. tavis: you travel around the country a lot speaking to young people. the violence against young people today is much different than the violence that was visited on your sister and the other three girls 50 years ago. when you talk to people about your sister and about this sad moment in the nations history, what are you telling them? >> well, i tell them how important it is to know this part of our history because it is our shared american history. if we don't learn it, we are destined to repeat the bad parts of it. students andith anourn to the past, which is organization that espouses nonviolence and the movement and teaches young people about that, they don't know anything if it is not in our history books. tavis: what kind of reaction you get all these years later from young people when they hear the story of your sister and the other three who were killed in the basement of this church while they were in sunday school? i'm asking you a kind of response you get because we live in a world where young people are so anesthetized to violence now. they see it now in video games and movies. i'm try to get a sense whether the story hits them. does it resonate? >> does. theysonates in a way that can understand that that really happened. when we did the trip with the students on sojourn, after the first couple of days, they were, like, this really happened? people really did that? people try to keep you from going to school? they wouldn't let people vote? beat them up because they wanted the right to vote? it is astonishing to them. they almost can't grasp that that happened in this country. tavis: let me ask you a personal question. we spent a lot of time together over the years. daughterome sense as a how you would describe the journey that your parents have been on all these years with this in their rearview mirror. give me some sense of how you would describe the route your parents, the journey that they have been on. >> my parents are wonderful. they are just wonderful, god- fearing, loving people. didplaud them because they a great job with me and my sister. they could have taken this terrible thing that happened and espoused a lot of bitterness in our household and her family. but that is totally opposite of what they did. they espoused a lot of love. they never told us to hate white people. they told us to love everybody the way christ's love the solitude take each person one person at a time. i think people think of us as being a civil rights family so that includes a lot of blackness. but i think it includes a lot of everything for us. our lives are very integrated. there were white people who were close family friends all the time. and we got exposed to a lot of different things and a lot of people. so i think it helped us to be really open-minded, inclusive people. happenedcause of what to denny's, did you ever feel like your parents were being in any way over protect -- overprotective of you as you grew up? question probably a few times there. but they didn't do it to the point of insanity. tavis: your father went on to be a great public servant in the city. it is amazing to me every time i think of your father's story how he did not allow this to in their him. embitter their -- to him. a good part of his life was spent serving people throughout birmingham and the county. give me some sense of why you think your father chose to do that when he could have been very angry. i believe you talked about being a servant and being of service to others. and he was just like that. he is like that now. he loves people and wants to be of help. i think it is because he comes from a little town in arkansas. and coming to the big city, he enjoyed meeting people and getting to know them. he was a milkman early on in his career. so he got to see people and no what their needs were -- and know what their needs were and lights were. he knew so many people and had a love for and still has love for people. tavis: this sunday's the actual anniversary, 50 years later. what will your family be doing to commemorate? >> there will be a lot of family coming in. we are excited about seeing a lot of friends and family from all over the country coming and staying with us. and we will be going to the church. the church is having a memorial service on that sunday. in the day before, they are doing and unveiling of his chew of the girls -- of a statue of the girls. after that, the four little girls memorial fund -- fourgirls memorialfund.org, it has been sending students to college for the last 50 years of its existence. we consider that to be the legacy. we are excited about that. tavis: you have a busy weekend ago so i will let you get out of here and go on to your weekend. my love to you and thank you for the opportunity to talk about what i know is a very busy weekend and a bittersweet weekend. thank you for your time. >> thank you so much for having me. tavis: coming up, a conversation with diane braddock. stay with us. diane braddock was a college sophomore when her sister carol robertson was murdered by a bomb planted in the 16th street baptist church by white supremacists. she joins us now from washington where she is also taking part in the 50th anniversary commemorations. diane, in honor to have guns program. thank you for your time. five decades as a longtime. does it seem like 50 years? >> yes, in a lot of ways, it does seem like 50 years when you carry that kind of pain in your heart. years.seemed like 50 tavis: how is it that you have navigated carrying that pain for 50 years, losing your sister in this most terrific ways? >> i had to just go on and live bestfe and try to make the of my life, raise my children, my two daughters. i couldn't wallow in a lot of pity because that was not the image i wanted them to see of me. of course, they know about everything that happened and it led me to dowhat more with black history and talking about civil rights and what it was like growing up in 1963 in birmingham. probably more than i would have. but you have to move on and you have to live your life and try to make the best of a bad situation. tavis: how did losing your sister at such a young age impact the way you raised your daughters? well, i always wanted them to be close and kind to each other because the biggest thing that i miss is not having my sister with me now. there were five years difference between me and carol. she was five years younger. so at that time, we went a lot of places together. we did a lot of things together. but now i feel like him as adults, it would have been a totally different relationship. so i miss that and i always remind my daughters -- and sometimes i have had to remind my mother in her relationship with her sister that you have a sister that is living and you must always honor that bond and that relationship. tavis: i had a chance to know your mother while she lived. i thought about earlier today in preparing for this conversation, wondering how she might feel about the recognition that her baby is about to receive, that the whole nation will see. what would she say about this moment? awehe would be really in and i think she would feel the same way that i do. that she would be so happy that it is happening. a final recognition. a thank you from the country to andwe recognize your pain nothing can ever replace your loved ones, but a recognition what many lives were people say was the catalyst for a lot of civil rights activities. -- the votinghts rights law, civil rights come evening cohousing. so many rights were passed after their death. so many people were sitting back silently allowing all of those atrocities to go on in the south. not only birmingham, but many said cities. -- but many southern cities. i think my mother would be very happy to know come even at 50 years, the death and the pain that we suffered was being acknowledged. and sort of a thank you from the country for what happened in terms of moving the country forward towards civil rights legislation. tavis: it's not just the country saying thank you. you're standing in the oval office next to a president who signed this document to happens to be an african-american. what was going through your head and you were standing there and this resident, this black man, was signing this document? >> it is really interesting because the president i found to be a very humble servant. that itwledged the fact was probably because of the civil rights act and all of the laws that were passed after their deaths that he is in the position where he is. and he is a very strategic theon because he had surgeon general, regina benjamin from mobile, alabama. he had eric holder and his wife. sister,der's wife had a sharon malone, vivian malone, integrated in the university of obama -- you receive alabama. he had people from the 15th street church. he had the judge who prosecuted the case. and the mayor of birmingham along with sarris will, we have to give a lot of credit for spearheading this effort and then of us would be where we are if it hadn't been for for that terrible act. tavis: it is amazing 50 years later. it is a sunday that you will a memory the loss of these four girls and what it meant to the rights movement and the nation since they were killed in sunday school 50 years ago. so history is full of irony. but i am glad to have you on the program. i wish under different circumstances, but i am so delighted to know that this honor has come this way for you and the other families and to the extent you can, try to enjoy it this weekend. try to greeted in. -- try to breath it in. >> thank you. i will. tavis: that is our show for tonight. as always, keep the faith. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiling at pbs.org. tavis: join me next time for a conversation with diana nyad about her epic swim from cuba to florida. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> be more. >> be more. captioning by vitac, underwritten by fireman's fund a last-minute scramble for 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