As we would say in the south bronx, all that and a bag of chips. Hinojosa so a lot of people, when they think of the south bronx, 1960s, 70s, when you were growing up. Right, right, right. Hinojosa . Their image is of a place that was entirely desolate, that was, you know, in destruction. Right, right. Hinojosa but for you, it was a totally different reality. Well, there was that element to it. But i always say that i was very fortunate to have grown up in that time period, because the culture, as far as latino and African American culture, particularly afro puerto rican, afro cuban culture, and obviously African American culture, were in full force in the streets, particularly in the summertime, because we had rumbas in the park all the time. Thats when youd hear people playing drums, conga drums, and playing this beautiful rhythm. Hinojosa now, im going to stop you right there, because i bet some people are saying, they had what in the park . Rumbas. Right, rumbas. Hinojosa okay, so were going to assume that theres a lot of people who are watching us who dont know a lot of these terms. So a rumba is what . A rumba is like a street party. In cuba it would be done. It really started with the dockworkers in los moyes, in the docks, et cetera. And its the music of the streets. Its drums, vocals, and dance. So youd hear in the park, imitates drumming vocalizing hinojosa and thats the stuff that, okay, you were saying was happening in cuba, but this is now happening in the streets of the south bronx. Right, right. And this is what the puerto rican community. We inherited afro cuban music through our forefathers, et cetera, from the mambo era, et cetera, et cetera. And they. As we say in spanish, tambor llama, the drum calls. So imagine listening to that in the projects. I grew up in the melrose projects, 681. In the canyons of the projects youre hearing that not only during the day, but at 3 00 in the morning in the basketball courts, et cetera. And instead of. What i tell people is the difference between our community and, say, somebody living in the suburbs, is in the suburbs, somebody would start calling 911, the cops, say, hey, theres these people drumming, et cetera. But at 3 00 in the morning in our neighborhoods, people would be going, yeah, keep it going. Hinojosa dont stop. Yeah, yeah. And so speaking spanish hinojosa so for you. But this notion of kind of living with music all around you, you. I love the story of your dad, who was a machinist. Right. Hinojosa again, puerto rican. And he would come home from work, and he would sit and listen to music in order to relax from his hard day of work. Right, because he worked in long island, so it would take him two hours to get there and two hours to get back. So my mother would tell me, your fathers going to sit in that lazboy chair he bought, hes going to smoke a cigar, drink some schaffer beer, and listen to music. And dont bother him. So i would listen to what he would listen to. And that would be everything from Harry Belafonte live at Carnegie Hall to machito and his afro cubans to tito puente, jibaro music from the folk traditions in puerto rico to, you know, jazz, brazilian music. I remember when he played something by Sergio Mendes and brazil 66, mas que nada. I go, hey, pop, that sounds like spanish, but it isnt. And he said, no, because its portuguese. You know, thats what they speak in brazil. So hes giving me a little social studies lesson at the same time. Hinojosa so you said another word that i bet some people stopped for a second. You said jibaro music. So what is jibaro music . Jibaro music is the music of the countryside, the Mountain People from the island of puerto rico, the obreros, the workers, the farmers, et cetera. Hinojosa and what would, like, jibaro music sound like . Well, its very guitar oriented, very string oriented. We have a mandolin type of instrument in puerto rico known as the cuatro that has ten strings. And, of course, anybody that knows spanish, its ten double strings. So people would go, well, how come they dont call it the cinqo if its five sets of double strings . Used to be four sets of double strings, but in 1952, an instrument maker in puerto rico added an extra set. But we puerto ricanos, sometimes were conservative, so we kept the name the cuatro. So its very soulful music, very soulful music that has deep ties to southern spain, but also our rhythm is also from west africa. So. And in the jibaro music, the country people, the mountainside people, the farmers, express their love for the country, for each other. They talk about farming, they talk about religion, they talk about whats happening in the neighborhood, et cetera. Its very, very soulful music. Hinojosa theres something that they do in the jibaro music, speaking spanish is that it . Right, that comes from. Hinojosa just sing a little bit. I know that youre not. You know, you do many things, but you also sing. Its not your. But just so that people, when they hear it, theyll be like, oh. Well, youd hear, like, what we could. Some of the. One of the typical rhythms we use is what we call a caballo, which sounds like a horse gaiting. So you hear, imitates drums singing in spanish so you hear, like, kind of like the little miasma in the voice. Hinojosa a little bit like from spain. Yeah, but we inherited that kind of note bending, et cetera, and very soulful interpretation in the voice, from the middle east. Hinojosa oh. From arabic traditions that we inherited through southern spain. Of course, anybody who was paying attention during High School History class knows that the moors and the muslims were in spain for, like, what is it, over 800 years. So thats part and parcel, besides africa, and the lyricism and harmonies that we heard from europe through spain, thats part of our culture. And thats one of my big missions, to make sure that people understand that we are a multidimensional people, we are multicultural. All latinos are. Hinojosa right, so what i want to know, bobby, is when youre growing up in the south bronx, horrible things are happening around you. Right. Hinojosa when they decide to build the cross bronx expressway, right . Right, and the bruckner express way. Hinojosa and the bruckner expressway. And youre this kid. I mean, at that point, where. You know, are you paying attention in high school, and are you thinking, okay, im going to become a musician, or are you thinking, look, theres destruction around me, theres so much heroin, everythings on fire . Whats going on for you . Well, music basically. And sports. I found avenues of expression through sports. I was very good in sports, especially track and field. Baseball. I had these grand aspirations of becoming the second baseman for the new york yankees. And in the 60s, the teams werent that good, so that was something that might have been possible. But basically i had several epiphanies when i was very young, and they started coming little by little, little by little. First epiphany was hearing the drumming, as i said, the rumbas in the street. Hinojosa and again, you said this thing, el tambor llama. The drum calls, right. Hinojosa the drum calls. You felt this. Right. And then when i was 12 years old, tito puente came to my neighborhood with the machito afro cubans, and those two orchestras played in front of my project. They set up a stage, and they played. Hinojosa and this was a free concert . It was. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Hinojosa which is. I mean, kind of. When i was reading about this, it, like, goes back to the importance of having free public art and music, because it can change someones life. Exactly. And that was. My friend marvin, who is no longer alive, unfortunately, may he rest in peace, i went. I lived in apartment 12a, which was the opposite side of the building, so you couldnt see on east 153rd street, where the concert was happening. So he calls me up, i go down to his apartment, 9a, and were looking out the window. And i go, hey, man, weve got to go downstairs. And he goes, no, man, come on. You know, why dont we stay up here, man . Besides that, we could throw spitballs at people and everything. I go, no, no, no, i want to get near the music. So we go down, and by the time we get to the front, tito puente in all his majesty is playing one of his signature songs which he composed in 1955. singing in spanish vocalizing instrumental parts and you hear the brass, and then when he points to the saxophones, they stand up, and it was like. It was like hannibal coming in through italy, through sicily, with the elephants. It was amazing. I mean, and it was. Hinojosa and you knew then . You said, okay, music is going to be what im going to do . Well, yeah. That was one one of. That, and then i was very fortunate also, because during that time period, jazz was still very much a part of the psyche of mainstream america, because it was in all the cartoons, johnny quest, top cat, courageous cat. Hinojosa pink panther. All these. Yeah, right. You can go down the list. All of the variety shows had orchestras playing jazz in one way or another. The tv shows, mchales navy, et cetera. Hinojosa god, everybodys going to go back, and theyre going to start listening to these shows. You end up coming to boston to the Berklee School of music. Right, right. Hinojosa but what. And i was the first. I was the first puerto rican from new york there. When i was there, nobody. I remember my freshman year, my roommate, who at the time was david carmona, who told me about the school. We were at. Both students at Cardinal Hayes high school, and he had told me about the school. Thats how i found out about it. He was from costa rica, so both of us decided we were going to audition together, and he was a trumpet player, and he became my roommate. So we were both there at the school, but im looking for other latinos. And all i found was a few brazilians, you know, three or four, no Puerto Ricans at all, whether nuyoricans or Puerto Ricans from the island. They started coming little by little after i was there. Hinojosa and now, actually, Berklee School of music, you were saying that they have a strong presence. The latino population is the highest population at the school. Hinojosa at the Berklee School of music. At the school. Amazing, right . Hinojosa so at one point. So you have an amazing career, bobby, and you and i met each other many, many, many years ago when i was just a kid at wkcr. We were both kids. Hinojosa when we were both kids at wkcr radio. And we. Even at that station we liked to bring in musicians like you. Right, right. Hinojosa at that point, i have this great memory where you guys were doing a jam, we were putting it on live on wkcr, and, i mean, i was a mexican kid who had come from chicago. There i was in new york. You guys were jamming, and you handed me a percussive instrument, and you said, play it. And i was like, i dont know how to do this. And you said, play it. Its like. And then. I gave you a. Its called a ganza, brazilan shaker, yeah. Hinojosa but the point of it is is that to me it was like, at that moment, you wanted to inspire me, and in everyones sense, really, the sense that we all carry rhythm within us. We all carry, in fact, african rhythms. Sure, sure. 99 of what we do in all of latin music has some tie to africa. And thats something that should be applauded. It should be exuded. And for our youth, especially today, who. Many of them lack direction, because they dont know who they are. The one thing i always emphasize, especially latino youth who are from caribbean roots, like puerto rico, like the dominican republic, like puerto rico. Hinojosa like cuba. Like cuba, like colombia, et cetera, like venezuela, is that we are multicultural. People tend to be. Latinos amongst themselves, we have these innate predjudices that weve inherited sometimes from our parents, our grandparents, and because of our colonial history. We say, well. speaking spanish im from the mother country, spain. I say, but spain is a multicultural society, too. It was ruled by the muslims for over 800 years. Africa lives in spain, too. Hinojosa but a lot of times people will hear. Youve heard it before. Youve heard people say, oh, salsa music, its just, you know, noise, its simple, its. And in fact, afro cuban music, you know, which became salsa, at least in new york, its incredibly complex. Sure, sure, sure. I mean, people that say things like that, what they are telling me right away is they dont know anything about the music. And it says more about them than anything else. Theyre either closedminded, they have some fear of the culture, the music, or of the people. Hinojosa but explain how complex it is. And you now do latin jazz big band. Explain, kind of, what it is to have all of these different instruments coming in at the same time, different rhythms, too. Right, right. Well, the reason the music is so exciting in and of itself is because of this rhythmic heritage that we inherited from west and central africa. And at the crux of it, at the core of it, is a rhythm that we call clave, which is the keystone of the music. And i could. Discussing clave, i could be here for hours discussing it. But its very, very simple in its essence. Its almost like the simple equation that einstein used, e equals. Hinojosa who, by the way, is one of your heroes. Yeah, yeah. E equals mc squared. In this simple equation he explains how energy and mass, et cetera, and all that is all interrelated. Well, its the same thing with clave. Its five attacks. And from this plays 32 clave pattern we get all of the rhythms that we utilize today in afro cuban music, in funk, in rock and. Hinojosa onetwothree, twothree. imitates clave you could explain it. Hinojosa i dont know. I just. But you could explain it this way. But what i tend to show. What i try to show people, what i do show people, is how this is prevalent in everything that we do. It could be a song by tito puente. singing in spanish or it could be a song from new orleans. I said feet wont fail me now my feet wont fail me now, yeah my feet wont fail me now my feet wont fail me now, yeah get, get, get get busy get, get, get get busy get, get, get get. Its all interrelated. Its part of the African Diaspora in this socalled new world. Hinojosa why is it so important for you, bobby. I mean youve had amazing success, grammy nominations, professor of music. It is about teaching and handing this down for you. Thats an essential part of it. Sure, because it represents us. It represents. Its our ethos, its our being. And what i tell young people is. And this is a common cliche, but its very profound. Once you know who you are and where you came from, nobody really can mess with you. I mean, and cultural pride has always been at the source of our being as latinos, and also our music. A good friend of mine, colleague, one of the first djs in the hip hop world, he talks about cultural medicine. People are always looking for medicine. And for us, in our communities, whether theyre African American, latino, or even anglo american, music is our medicine. And our music is so deep and rich in its ties to the past that we should celebrate that and not lose it. And thats. Hinojosa so your doctors. Okay, if music is our medicine, your doctors would be mongo santamaria, mario bauza, tito puente. All of those people. Hinojosa . Machito. Carlos san. Hinojosa . Dizzy gillespie. Carlos santana. All of these people to me are priests. Hinojosa well, what was it like when you were. Because many people have said that the legacy of tito puente is sitting on your shoulders now. Thats amazing, right . But what was it like to be playing with someone like tito . Well, i worked with tito many times. In fact, hes on my first album, new york city ache , which has become sort of a. Hinojosa which, by the way, is my alltime favorite. Great, great. That has kind of achieved, like, cult status with a lot of people. We did a series of duets, me on the drum set and maestro puente on the timbales, something that he never did, ever, with another percussionist. But tito to me was like somebody. You could describe him almost as a marvel comic superhero. I mean, it was superhuman, the things that he did. First of all, he studied dance when he was a kid, so he was an accomplished dancer. Then he became a pianist. He studied piano for eight years. Then he gets in. His heroes are james cagney and gene krupa. Then he serves his country with honor in the navy for three years, and hes in the battle of midway, the battle of guadalcanal. Hinojosa so my immediate question is, how come there isnt a biopic on tito puente, and how come. I mean, one of your concerns is that you said, when i find out that there are kids who have never heard of tito puente, your heart breaks a little bit. Well, its not only that. Kids dont know who Duke Ellington is, john coltrane. Some kids now today dont even know who Carlos Santana is. Hinojosa although he did play on american idol. Thats a very big deal. So probably a lot of people know him now. Thats all well and good, but i dont think. What kids need today to do, and its very easily accessible, especially with the technology we have today, all these people that you just mentioned, they can look them up on youtube and readily see them right away. Like, when i do concerts all the time, whether with my own groups or with the groups that. The two orchestras that i teach at the new School University and at the Manhattan School of music. Hinojosa in new york. They come up and say, mr. Sanabria, i never heard this music before. My mother and father told me about it, but i never paid any attention. Man, this is bad. This is amazing. Where can i hear more of this . I says, man, start looking up machito, tito puente, santana, Duke Ellington, john coltrane, Bobby Sanabria, start looking up on youtube, and you can see them right there in all their majesty. Hinojosa what you do is that you took your strong, you know, latin basis, and you moved into latin jazz. So what is the state of latin jazz right now . Is it good . Well, the state of the music is very, very good. In fact, latin jazz, when you mention that term, would always refer to afro cuban based music done with jazz harmony and arranging technique and improvisation. But now its expanded, and i think that we were at the focal point of that with my nonet, with that new york city ache album where we started doing rhythms outside of. Besides cuban rhythms, but other rhythms outside of that spectrum, like venezuelan rhythms, like cumbia from colombia. We even did some plenas on there from puerto rico. So all of these young people that are fervently studying jazz now from colombia, from venezuela, from other countries in latin america, are bringing their folklore into the realm of jazz. And youre going to be seeing and hearing more of that. And i think. Hinojosa but really, bobby . Becuase, you know, how many. You know, i travel around the country, and for me jazz is my. Again, kind of stemming from my experience at wkcr radio and meeting someone like you when i was an impressionable 18yearold, jazz is a part of my life. Its whats on my radio 247. Right, right, right. Hinojosa my kids are hearing it. But its not easy to find jazz on the radio across this country. Well, thats why people like myself have been very vocal in terms of. I myself believe that we should have congressional hearings on jazz and how to make it part of the curriculum of every Public School kid in the united states. Once you get to the fifth grade and you get into social studies and all of a sudden you talk about the louisiana purchase, how come americas greatest art form, and what best represents us as a multicultural society, and what best represents the ethos of america, freedom within a Democratic Society for the individual, musically and culturally, how come thats not being taught in the Public Schools . Doesnt mean that everybody is going to become a jazz tenor player or anything, no. But part of the history of this country, its part of the curriculum. So im very vocal about that, and also we need to have more radio stations playing the music. Hinojosa but your definition of jazz is one that i really like. And i think you had said its freedom, revolutionary, and. Oh, i always say that jazz has three elements to it freedom, truth, and revolution. Without any of those elements, you dont really have jazz. Now, a lot of those elements are found in a lot of other forms of music that are rooted in jazz, like rock, r b, et cetera. But no other art form exudes those three elements more than jazz. Hinojosa so will we get those congressional hearings . Do you have an inside line into the administration . What are you doing to. Well, hopefully if they watch this show. Ive been talking about this for the last few years. Some people, when i Start Talking about it, they start laughing. And then they start realizing that im serious. And i go, if we can have congressional hearings on how much a toilet seat costs for the shuttle, we can have congressional hearings on this art form that so many people from all over the world who maybe dont like the politics of this country, or even what this country represents, but when it gets to the word jazz, no matter how much they may dislike this country, as soon as you say jazz, they start going oh, yes, yes, that music. hinojosa you mean when you travel around the world . Yeah, yeah. When we. The Common Ground has always been, we love jazz. Hinojosa all right, so bobby, just to finish up here, so theres a young person whos watching this show who thinks maybe they like music, not sure. What should they do . Hinojosa well, first of all, if they have a passion for music like i started developing a passion for it, they should seek it out, and also get musical instruction. And im not just talking about music. If they have a passion for art, for science, for history. I have a passion for all of those things, and i get to express them all in the world of music, especially in the jazz work that i do. But a teacher will always get you to where you want to go ten times faster than just you being by yourself. Hinojosa so the great words of Bobby Sanabria go out, study, learn. And thank you, bobby, for sharing all of your music and all of your lessons with us. We appreciate it. Thanks for having me. And just to reiterate the thing about education, it worked for tito puente, who went to the Julliard School of music on the gi bill when he got out of world war ii for three years from 1945 to 1948. It worked for me. Im a proud graduate of the Berklee College of music, class of 1979. And itll work for them also. Hinojosa thank you, bobby. Thank you, maria. Continue the conversation at wgbh. Org oneonone. Captioned by Media Access Group at wgbh access. Wgbh. Org hello, and welcome to kqed newsroom im thuy vu. Coming up on tonights program, Silicon Valley is steering a revolution to make cars smart enough to drive themselves. And meet a san jose native who stars in the Tony Award Winning hit, hamilton. First, more signs of chaos in the trump administration. Today White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer resigned saying he strongly disagreed with President Trumps pick for a communications director. Meanwhile the Senate Debate over health care continues. On tuesday the gop bill looked all but dead when several republican lawmakers refused to repeal obamacare without a plan to replace it. But after President Trump met with wavering republicans on wednesday the senate gop leader said he would now try
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