World. Weve focused on sustained economic growth, 3 of hiring, getting the economy back to where it should be, tax reform, regulatory relief and trade. Rose we continue with the manager of the chicago cubs, joe maddon. Its all about trust. When i took the job with the cubs, i had three things things on my mind. So build relationships with the group, and once i did that i knew trust would be established, and once we did that, we could have a Free Exchange of ideas. If you dont build relationships and have trust, there is pushback when ideas are exchanged. So then you get this open conversation where things are not just trying to say things to ameliorate your needs or wants, theyre going to give you honest feedback. In the game, i will say trust your guys, i will say that to myself. When things get hot, if a pitcher is in trouble or you think about pinch hitting, trust your guys and walk away from the moment. Rose the sessions testimony, secretary moochen and joe maddon, when we continue. Rose funding for charlie rose has been provided by the following and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Rose we begin tonight with. Attorney general Jeff Sessions appeared before the Senate Intelligence committee today, called before the committee to testify about his contact with russian officials. Recusalle from the ongoing Russian Investigation and his role in President Trump firing of f. B. I. Director james comey. The exchange was at sometimes combative with some senators accusing him of stonewalling. I believe the American People have had it with stonewalling. Americans dont want to hear answers to relevant questions are privileged, off limits, cant be provided in public or it would be inappropriate for witnesses to tell us what they know. We are talking about an attack on our Democratic Institutions and stonewalling of any kind is unacceptable. And general sessions has acknowledged there is no legal basis for this stonewalling. Senator wyden, i am not stonewalling. I am following the historic policies of the department of justice. You dont walk into any hearing or Committee Meeting and reveal Confidential Communications with the president of the United States rose sessions told the senate any suggestion he was involved with or aware of russian meddling in last years election is an appalling and detestable lie. Joining me now from washington is karoun demirjian, she covers National Security and Foreign Policy for the washington post. Good to be back. Rose how do we assess what happened today with the attorney general . Well, it depends on which side of the aisle youre looking at it from. The attorney general did say frequently he was asked by members of both sides of the aisle what his role was in the firing of james comey, what his residence was of events that james comey last week said transpired between himself and the president and himself and sessions. Then for his more detailed rendition of what the terms of his recusal are from any probes of the d. O. J. That involve the trump campaign, he was sometimes aided in these questions in giving answers by his republican colleagues. Hes a former senator so a lot of these people are his friends, and he was more challenged by democrats. It depends on which side of the aisle you were on whether you think this was a good or bad day for sessions because certainly he said emphatically he does not remember having any additional contacts with the Russian Ambassador or any other russian officials, that he does not think that anything was the content of the conversation he is did disclose was problematic. He went back to the confirmation hearing from january and said i did not lie and suppositioned that i was not telling the truth is completely unfair and lost his temper at one point where he bellowed at senator wyden who was pushing him hard in a certain line of questioning. But from the other side, democrats kept hearing sessions was refusing to answer questions without legal justification for why, that his account did not completely jibe with comey. There is also a theme that every time he answered a question about his contacts with rust, there was a caveat. He kept saying i dont remember, i do not recall, i dont have any recollection of that, ive racked my brain trying to think of something but i cant recall anything and once when senator harris was questioning him he said if i dont give you these caveats you will accuse me later of being a lier which is a denial but leaves a door open for things potentially coming up down the line. Rose did he help further our understanding of what the russians have done, might have wanted to do and how they might have accomplished it . Not really. There was certainly a lot of discussion more prompted by republicans questions of we should be focusing more on what the russians did and what these allegations that they interfered in the 2016 elections and how appalling sessions says it would be if thats what transpired but he didnt really offer any new information or fact about that to lead to a conclusion and that devolved into a little bit of a well, we should focus on this and democrat would be, like, look, trump fired the signature f. B. I. Director running the probe, we have to think of this as well now and ask why. And so, you know, certainly there is a lot of lip service paid to that and discussion of the import of it and the seriousness of it and the gravity the gravidas surrounding the focus that everybody thinks should be there on what russia did or did not do in terms of actually getting to the nitty gritty of exposing or shedding any light on that, there was very little of that today. Rose did he say anything about what some reported the displeasure of him holding him responsible for the fact robert robermueller is now special cou . Sessions basically sawed he had no contact with mueller since he was appointed special counsel. This morning when Deputy Attorney general Rod Rosenstein was testifying where they were asking questions basically about will mueller be able to have the independence to do his job, will there be undue influence coming from the white house . And rosenstein was saying, look, basically, im not going to fire mueller if i dont think there is cause and i have to be the one to green light it if its going to happen and its not going to happen if there is not a better reason and sessions is saying im not talking to the Trump Administration about the investigation because i was never briefed on it so house of i supposed to be involved in any part of it. Lots of swilling questions about are there discussions and understandings had not documented in the written record, the written recording with the memos and letters that went back and forth around the time comey was fired and shortly afterwards when the special prosecutor was appointed, are they taking him and others at their written word or is there speculation there was more going on in discussions or understandings behind the scenes that was never written down . A lot of times you heard senators asking, you know, we want to see your notes and sessions saying, well, i dont keep notes on every conversation. So it may never actually be put to rest all this speculation and it depends on how inclined senators are to believe them and believe the version of events that is documented versus the one speculated to potentially have been bubbling along behind the scenes. Rose do i understand from what you just side that rosenstein the dip attorney general said if anybodys going to fire morel, its not going to be the president or the attorney general, its going rosensteins attorney general in this regard since sessions recused himself. Even if there is pressure by the president , rosenstein has to sign the paper. He said he would not do that unless he found cause and right now fugue viewing the job mueller is doing he does not think there is good cause to fire mueller so hes saying i think this is going to go ahead smoothly and i am going to do my part to make sure he has the independence to function. That hasnt fully satisfied democrats who want it put in writing he will never fire mueller, but there is ultimate check and balance on mueller so he doesnt have the liberty to run an investigation that runs off the rails in the other direction. But as far as procedures, it has to go through similar at some point if mueller will go. Rose do we know if the president has tapes . No, were still waiting for the president to say whether he has tapes. The house Intelligence Committee asked for them formally at the end of last week and they gave the president until june 23 which is a ways off. The president indicated there might be some time this week whether they were in and would say they exist but no new word on that. Rose does do we know if the president is going to go under oath and testify and be questioned by whoever would do the questioning . We just know what the president said which is sure he would be and a lot of members of Congress Said thats great but nobody said and thus were going to schedule the president for some testimony. Im not totally convinced they will be doing that. If there is investigative value to it, im sure eventually well get to the point where some of the committees may decide the do that. But you can imagine giveton spectacle and the controversy and Everything Else surrounding the testimony of comey and sessions, if trump were to be next in that line, that would be will be mind blowing. I dont think the committees are ready for that and i dont think they have been gearing up for that before trump said sure, ill say this under oath. If it gets to the point where they need it, it may happen but its an open door i dont think people are walking through. Rose lots of people criticized james comey but has anybody contradicted him as theo the things he said . Not so much contradiction as kind of undercutting his meant patrol seases of what he was going through. A lot of what comey is saying his impression of what the president was driving at and his own discomfort. Sessions did not call comey a liehig yarr. He criticized comeys process in the clinton email probe and said comey would have to go before he was confirmed and talked to rosenstein before either were confirmed to their current positions. The interesting thing that sessions did do is say if comey really felt uncomfortable, theres a process through which he could have and should have reported it to, at the time, acting attorney general, and the attorney general didnt get a report like that. So hes not saying oh, hes a liar and making up this story, but its basically casting some doubt in the direction of comey because hes saying, well, look, if this was as serious he was saying there are is he should have dotted and ts he should have crossed so not finishing the sentence in terms of what sessions was suggesting. Not as harsh as the president s tweets but it leaves the door open for the president to be able to say what the president is going to say and sessions can sit in the middle and not directly contradict either one. Rose thank you for joining us, pleasure. Thank you. Rose back in a moment. Stay with us. Rose the u. S. Treasury department unsweeping recommendations monday which would eliminate or dampen regulations in response to the 2008 fake news and proposes limiting the power the Consumer FinancialProtection Bureau and reducing capital standards required of banks. The Trump Administration seeks to grow the economy at more than 3 . Ambition is contingent on efforts to overhaul the tax code and other fiscal initiatives. Joining me from washington, treasury secretary steven mnuchin. Welcome. Thanks, charlie. Great to be with you. Rose tell me what you help to accomplish with this regulation. Well, what were really doing is looking at all the regulations around the president s core principals on financials and the first report is focused on banks and u. S. Depes tores. Were focused on what are the recommendations we can make that will drive growth in community banks, Credit Unions and regional banks . If you look at the u. S. Banking system, 50 of the assets are held in the top a. G. Sibs. We want to unlock the burdensome regulation on the other banks so they can make sure they are lending to small and mediumsized businesses in their communities. Rose one interesting question people ask, they say unemployment is low, the markets are very hot, and why and there have been no crises since 2008, why do we need to fix it if it aint broke . Well, charlie, you know, for a lot of people, the system is working, but there is an awful lot of people that the system isnt working, and although we have very low unemployment, there is a lot of people who have left the labor force because they cant find jobs, and there is a lot of people who for the last ten years they havent seen wage increases, and were focused on creating sustained economic growth, the 3 or higher, getting the economy back to where we think it is and, as you said, thats a combination of tax reform, regulatory relief and trade. Rose you have to find, in your judgment, balance between protecting taxpayers and loosening regulation to enhance growth. How do you find the balance . Thats what the assignment has been about. Weve gone out and held listening sessions. This isnt just about the Treasury Department printing an academic study. This is about weve gone out to over 18 different groups, many that did 50 to 100 people here. Weve taken written comments and weve went out to everything consumer advocates, regional banks, all the regulators and weve tried to come back with recommendations where we balance never putting the taxpayers at risk and, two, making sure our Banking System can be competitive and especially that small and mediumsized businesses have the proper access to capital. Rose what else are you considering in this as you but this together . As you mentioned, this is one of four, is important for you in crafting this first part of financial regulations . Let me point out two other aspects that we put in this report. One is were calling for a review of the Community Reinvestment act. The c. R. A. Act is a very important act for banks, and we want to make sure that, when banks are investing in their communities, that theyre doing things that are really good for the community, and were going to reach out to consumer advocates. Were going to reach out to housing advocates. We want to make sure, as long as banks are spending billions of dollars, that its not just a check the box exercise, that that money is going in and helping the economy, particularly in low and moderateincome families. The other recommendation weve made is to increase certain powers of the fsoc where i as chair bring together the regulators and, where there are multiple regulators looking at the same thing in a bank, to appoint a lead regulator to coordinate. Those types of things. Its about sound regulation, but its about proper regulation. Rose how will you change the consumer prodetection agency . Our biggest objection to the Consumer Protection agency is it has no oversight. Weve made one of two recommendations. Weve either said there should be a board that oversees the consumer Protection Bureau very similar to the fed and the fdic, or the head of the administration should be able to removed at will by the president. The other thing, we think the funding shouldnt be a blank check and should go through congressional approval like other funding. And the president should have the ability to fire the head of the consumer president agency . Either like the o. C. C. And other independent regulators, the white house should be able to remove the person without cause or, if they cant do that, there should be an independent board that overseas that person is that let me talk about general bigger ideas. In terms of tax reform, not necessarily a bigger idea, but the secret si of the legislative agenda. The president said healthcare comes first, tax reform and regulation and infrastructure. At the same time, there is a sense that if he had started with infrastructure, he miffed more people on board and might have been more success 1 2 finding Common Ground with democrats. Well, charlie, let me just first say the president s been very hard at work on all these issues. I think as it relates to tax reform, some people questioned whether we should have gone first. I have been working on tax reform since january here, meeting with the house and the senate. I worked with the president on the campaign. Tabs reform is complicate. Its been 30 years since weve had comprehensive tax reform and we are working as fast as we can to come out with a plan where we have buyin from the house and senate to get something passed this year. Rose where does that stand . Were working. There are meetings every day and were optimistic were going to get this done. Rose we is a a statement of principles about a month ago. When will we see the entire legislative proposal coming from the administration . Well, again, let me just comment, the reason why we came out with a statement of principles and not a fullblown plan is that this has to be a process where we work with the house and the senate, and, as i said, were working every week with them as fast as we can. Our objective is to get this passed this year, and well release it as soon as its ready. Rose many people referred to the mnuchin rule which is a rule that says the tax plan would benefit middle class taxpayers, not the highest earners. Is that how you would define it . Well, again, im honored there are certain people who actually have named a rule after me, but let me say what ive said from the beginning is the president s objective is to create a middle income tax cut, simplify person taxes and make business taxes competitive. Where were lowering taxes on