Transcripts For KQED PBS NewsHour 20140501

The rights of workers, but Domestic Work isnt covered by them. In fact, in all but a few places, employers arent required to pay Domestic Workers the legal minimum wage. Ifill those are just some of the stories were covering on tonights pbs newshour. Major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by ive been around long enough to recognize the people who are out there owning it. The ones getting involved, staying engaged. They are not afraid to question the path theyre on. Because the one question they never want to ask is, how did i end up here . I started schwab with those people. People who want to take ownership of their investments, like they do in every other aspect of their lives. And by bnsf railway. And by the alfred p. Sloan foundation. Supporting science, technology, and improved Economic Performance and Financial Literacy in the 21st century. And with the ongoing support of these institutions and foundations. And. This program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. And by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. Thank you. Woodruff from florida to philadelphia, cleanup from heavy flooding began today. The Florida Panhandle was inundated by two feet of rain this week. The storm system also brought downpours up much of the eastern seaboard. Swollen rivers overflowed in virginia and maryland, causing roads to collapse. And in the philadelphia area, people had to be rescued from the rising water. The same weather front spawned tornadoes earlier in the week, killing almost 40 people. Investigators in pensacola, florida, are asking whether storm flooding there helped trigger an apparent gas explosn at a jail late last night. It killed two inmates and injured some 150 others. The jail had housed 600 inmates, but it was almost completely destroyed. The injured were taken to local hospitals, while those unhurt were transferred to neighboring jails. This was may day or, International Workers day, and in russia, trade unions organized a parade through moscows red square. The first since the soviet union collapsed in 1991. The crowds came out with signs supporting president Vladimir Putin and celebrating the annexation of crimea from ukraine. And, they called for more. We express solidarity with our brothers in southern and Eastern Ukraine work those that dont want to live under the orders of kiev suddeno authorities who dont want to live under scenarios written overcease, together with those that want to speak the russian language, to choose their own destiny. Woodruff meanwhile, in turkey, police fired tear gas, rubber pellets and Water Cannons as protesters in istanbul threw fireworks and stones. Prime minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan had banned any rallies as he tries to quell opposition to his rule. Deadly new barrel bomb attacks have killed at least 33 people in syria today. Opposition groups say a government helicopter dropped the bombs on a busy market in the city of aleppo, which has been split between rebels and regime for nearly two years. The attacks have increased in the runup to a president ial election next month. The families waiting for news of that missing malaysian airliner will soon have to wait at home. Malaysia Airlines Announced starting next week, it will no longer put them up in hotels. Meanwhile, the countrys government reported the plane disappeared from radar a full 17 minutes before ground controllers noticed. It was another four hours before the search began. A political storm swirled over Northern Ireland today as the leader of the irish nationalist Sinn Fein Party was questioned for a second day in a 42year old murder case. We have a report from Martin Geissler of independent Television News. The police in Northern Ireland use this station in antrim to question the most serious terror suspects, gerry adams spent last night and today in custody here. He agreed to be interviewed about the murder of jean mcconville, a widowed mother of ten who was kidnapped and killed by the ira. He gave this statement before questioning began. I totally of any part in the abduction, the killing of jean mcconville. Mrs. Mcconville was taken from her home in belfast by an armed i. R. A. Gang in 1972. They suspected her of passing information to the british army. 30 years later her body was found buried under this beach in the irish republic. The murder has long proved problematic for the leadership of sinn fein. Gerry adams seen here in the spectacles of an i. R. A. In 1970 has always denied any involvement in the killing or indeed ever being a member of the i. R. A. But audiotapes recovered from this American University have cast doubt on both those claims. Former members of the organization gave up the secrets of the past to researchers here. Sinn fein say mr. Adams arrest is cynical and politically motivated. It was still a dark side, here in the north of ireland. And i think weve seen that dark side flex its muscles in the course of the last couple of days. The Prime Minister flatly denied those claims this afternoon woodruff back in this country. The u. S. Education Department Released the names of 55 colleges and universities being investigated for their handling of sexual abuse cases. Its part of new efforts to shed more light on the problem. The schools range from ohio state, to harvard, to Catholic University in washington d. C. Car buyers came out of their winter slumber and started buying again in april. Nissan was at the top of the pack, reporting a gain of more than 18 over last year. Chrysler led detroits big three auto makers with a 14 gain. General motors posted a 7 increase, amid sweeping safety recalls. On wall street, stocks mostly marked time today, waiting for tomorrows release of the april jobs report. The Dow Jones Industrial average lost 21 points to close at 16,559; the nasdaq rose 12 points to close at 4,127; and the s p 500 slipped a fraction of a point, to 1,883. Still to come on the newshour. The Sexual Assault crisis in the ranks of the u. S. Military. Kievs weakening grip on Eastern Ukraine. The spike in the number of americans being sent to jail. Improving the lives of indias Domestic Workers. Plus, as primary season kicks off, we look at positive ads in this election cycle. Ifill the pentagon, which has been under fire in recent years over Sexual Assaults within the military, reported today that the number of reported cases has jumped by 50 . The rise in reported cases came as the pentagon stepped up its campaign to prevent and combat Sexual Assaults in its ranks. Every Single Person must take personal responsibility for helping stop Sexual Violence within our ranks. Ifill from defense secretary chuck hagel on down, the military says its encouraging victims to come forward. While holding the chain of command more accountable. But hagel conceded today, theres still a long way to go. We must each be responsible for our own actions, but we also must step up and take action when we see something happening that undermines our values and puts one of our own at risk. The victims are not only human beings, theyre fellow soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines. We cannot let them down. Ifill more than 5,000 military Sexual Assaults were reported in the 2013 fiscal year, which ran through last september. Thats up sharply from nearly 3,400 cases reported the previous year. The figures also show male victims made up 14 of last years cases. Pentagon Officials Say the figures dont reflect an actual rise in crime, but an increased willingness by victims to speak up. Thats crucial, because the military is under pressure to act. The chairman of the joint chiefs, army general martin dempsey, said as much to newshour earlier this year. We are currently on the clock, if you will. The president of the United States said to us in december, you know what . You have got about a year to review this thing and show me you can make a difference. Reporter but new york senator kirsten gillibrand, who led the fight to take Sexual Assault investigations away from commanders, said increased reporting is not enough. Reporter more reporting is not the end game, she said in a statement. More people coming forward and not receiving justice only further erodes trust in the system. The report found 73 of the accused assailants last year were prosecuted last year. Thats up from 66 in 2012. Ifill to assess this latest report, we get two views, former marine corps captain anu bhagwati is the executive director and cofounder of Service Womens Action Network. And retired Lieutenant Colonel geoffrey corn was an army lawyer who now serves on a Defense Department commission examining anu bhagwati that increase in reporting sounds like a big number s it the correct measure . Its not the only measure. Its a good sign that there is increased reporting among troops. But we need to also look at the rates of prosecution, the rates of conviction, as you pointed out, there is a small jump in prosecution but conviction rates are staying steady. And theres really been no fundamental military Justice Reform to deal with why perpetrators arent being put behind bars where they belong. Essentially perpetrators are getting retake recycled back into the system going from unit to unit and perpetrating Sexual Assaultsment and with these repeat offenders were just creating thousands upon thousands of victims. So yes, increased reporting is a good sign but we need to look at the full spectrum of military Justice Reform. And that is why some of the bill which would actually professionalized system and leave trained prosecutors in charge of that military Justice System would be a very necessary step. Should be said her bill did not pass the senate. An alternative did an is now awaiting action in the house. Professor corn, what is your sense about these numbers . Does it seem to you like progress is being made . I think it absolutely indicates that progress is being made. Over the last several Years Congress and the secretary of defense have instituted a number of measures to increase reporting, to increase confidence in the victims of Sexual Violence, that if they report the case will be handled appropriately. And to have this number of increased reports is an indicator that those efforts are working. And without these reports we cant conduct the criminal investigations to determine whether to prosecute somebody. Ifill but what about that question about prosecution s that not the correct measure, professor . Well, i have to say i find it troubling to suggest that because every allegation does not result in a conviction that there is a failure in the system. Actually, i think an increased acquittal rate is an important indicator that commanders and the lawyers that advise them are taking very challenging cases to trial. And thats wholly appropriate so what we have seen is a significant increase in prosecution rates, and as you note, an increase, a slight increase in conviction rates. The important point here is that when an allegation is made the victim has confidence that the allegation will be treated appropriatelind the law. And i also disagree with the assertion that there have not been significant changes made to the system. In fact, one of the most profound changes that was made to the system was the rule that only very senior commanders may now make decisions on how to deal with an allegation of Sexual Assault in the military. Which wasnt the case before. So today captains and majors have no Authority Even if theyre in positions of command to snuff out an allegation of Sexual Violence. That allegation has to go to a senior colonel or a general officer or admiral and only at that level will the decision be made in con vuntion conjunction with a very senior military lawyer how to deal with the case under the law. Anu bhagwati lets talk about who is making these reports. Would you like to respond to that first. You look leak you want to respond to that first. Absolutely. Weve worked on every single reform that has actually been legislated over the last five years so im infant did aware of those reforms but when it comes to sexual trauma which is a very specific kind of assault, a very personal betrayal oriented trauma which i have learned over the over the last few years is even more traum anything many case than Sexual Assault in a civilian environment because of the confined nature of the military, because its such an insular culture. So when we look at this crime we have to understand why is it that the vast majority of victims are underreporting. Its because of a lack of faith and confidence in the system. And so while yes, we actually worked to implement that reform in the dod, that moved that socalled convenient authority that authority to take a case forward away from Junior Officers and move it to Senior Officers, really, victims were telling us that even the Senior Officers can actually be bias. And we have seen that even in the last few months there have been a series of very high profile cases that the media has brought forth about general officers, once again, not doing the right thing and sweeping cases of sexual crimes under the rug. And so i would like to see i hope the professor would agree with me, a military Justice System in which both victims and the accused are served equally. We have seen with this Current System that even the accused can be treated unfairly because there is such incitizens political pressure. I would like to get to the question of who these victims are because there is an interesting figure in the report, jeffrey geoffrey corn that says that 14 of those making reports are men. But that only makes it 1. 2 of the force. Because of course the military is overwhelmingly male. Why, is that an incident that there are fewer Sexual Assaults involving men or that they are even less likely to make reports . I think its a combination of both. I think statistically there probably are viewer Sexual Assaults committinged against men but i think the stigma of being the victim of Sexual Violence or assault as a man is significantly greater statistically than it is for a am without. And particularly within the military culture. And i think this is an issue that leadership of the military really have to tackle head on. And i think theyre working on that. Its a very difficult issue to deal with. Ultimately as i said, we need victims to be confident that they can report whether they are male or female. And as you noted at the outset, the number, the significant increase in reporting seems to rebut the suggestion that because commanders are in charge of ultimately the decision of what case goes to trial, we cannot enhance the reporting levels and the confidence in the system when you do report. If that were the case, then because that element of the system has not been changed yet, we wouldnt have seen this spike in reporting. Even though you represent the Service Womens Action Network do you have evidence that men too have been as involved in this . Absolutely. Over time actually. Because of the disproportionate ratio of men to women in the military, men have made up the majority of Sexual Assault victims in the military which is a lot for people to sort of wrap their heads around when they first hear that. But men make up the majority of victims all over time in the military. And yes, i would agree with the colonel that they are less likely to come forward. I hope thats changing. One of the actually significant changes in messaging that i heard today from the dod, i was very optimistic about, was it seems to be the first year that the dod is embracing the idea that rape and assault are not a womans issue, or a female issue. That this is not just a Service Issue but its an issue, a crime of power and control. Which weve always known in sort of a sexual vie lens community. But i done think the military has really fundamentally engrained that into the cultural understanding of what this crime is about. And so it can happen to a man it can happen to a woman. It doesnt matter what your age is or your orientation is sexually this is a crime of po ter. Hear in the dod urgent embrace male victims to support them was really a shift. Okay, and the investigation is going to continue anu bhagwati of the Service Womens Action Network and geoffrey corn, thank you both very much. Thank you. Thank you woodruff russian president Vladimir Putin today told german chancellor Angela Merkel that ukraine must remove its military from the countrys southeastern region to resolve the showdown with prorussian militants. This comes after the acting ukrainian president said his governments Security Forces had lost control of the area. James mates of independent Television News reports from donetsk. Reporter they must have guessed what was coming. In a rare show of resistance, wellequipped, but clearly nervous, riot police decide to take a stand as a prorussia may day march approaches. And in moments, it starts. Sheer weight of numbers, driving the police back. First, they release some tear gas, but much too close to their own lines to be effective. Then come stun grenades, thrown repeatedly into the crowd. It drove them back all right, but incited even greater fury. The Police Position was becoming completely untenable. They were forced back inside the building. This is the last official building, the last Government Office in donetsk that was still showing any loyalty to kiev. It is paying the price for that. Now the rioters anger turned on the building itself. Rocks, then petrol bombs in what appeared to be a concerted attempt to burn it down. That forced the now Beleaguered Police into a courtyard. One Group Standing behind their shields. Another crouched under theirs to form a dome Something Like a roman tortoise formation against the hail of rocks and paving stones that were raining down. Fascists they scream, but the police they had surrounded were completely helpless. Surrender, their only option. The mob, now inside the compound, stripped them of shields, helmets, and protective vests. Foreign small groups, clearly very frightened men, were marched away one policeman had his balaklava ripped off. All of them run a gauntlet of insults and spitting. The Prosecutors Office, its files and criminal records, all now in the hands of those who had been rid of the government of kiev. Police resistance has proved futile. The only effect, to let weapons and equipment fall into the hands of their enemies. Theyre unlikely to try it again. Woodruff Washington Post correspondent simon denyer is also covering the unrest in donetsk. He was there when i spoke to him a short while ago. Simon, thank you for talking with us. You wrote today that the city youre in took another step toward mob rule today what did you see . I see a crowd of people chanting facists, as their leading activists went and stormed a policetation with rocks in their hands, with sticks in their hands. And absolutely humiliated the riot police who made a brave attempt to defend the building, the state Prosecutors Office. But ultimately surrendered and were forced to surrender their riot gear, helmets, jackets. And were led away as people tried to punch them and spat on them so it was a pretty humiliating experience for the police. And really underlined and meant to underline, i think, who was in control here. And the people who were in control, well, theyre men with guns, with sticks, with whatever they can lay their hands on. And they are using the language of violence to get their way. Woodruff and how large and how well organize ready those pro russian separatists crowd . Well, you know t there was about 2,000 people, i would say, at a rally that kicked off the event today. It was a labor day rally. And so there was soviet flags there, there were russian flags there, there were flags of the donetsk peoples republicment by the time the Prosecutors Office was stormed, the crowd had dwindled a little bit, maybe half that number. But in the front of that there is a few dozen, i guess you can call them thugs who are leading the sort of violent assault on the policetation, sorry on the Prosecutors Office. So but you know theyre very much supported by this crowd. I means thats still a tiny percentage of the population of donetsk, lets not forget that. So there is a huge silent majority of people here who you know who are not taking part in rallies for either side. Woodruff i do want to ask you buttabout that but we heard in in report that this was the last, i guess, major government building in donetsk that is not under the control of the separatists so it sounds like they pretty much have taken over the city. Well, they have except that the citys kind of running a parallel administration not necessarily from these buildings. So they havent taken over, if you like, the sort of financial control of the city. They havent taken over refuse collection, for example, or running the hospitals. Theyve taken over the symbols of power here. So theyre telling people whoses in control but there are still bureaucrats and officials who are doing their jobs. But what they are telling the police is you have to answer to us. And what they said, they were outside the Police Station today, and they said were holding a referendum on the 11th. And after that referendum you the police, you have to answer to us. You have to take orders from us. And if you dont, we will remember this. And you were starting to reflect 9 views of ode folks what are they saying, the people you talk to . Well, i mean the whole spectrum of screws there are people who want there are many russian speaking ukrainians who want to remain in ukraine. They want to remain in a country that has European Values with human rights and freedom of speech. They dont necessarily want to be in the eu. But they do want to be in ukraine which is part of europe, with links to russia. You know they dont really want to have to choose. They want to get the best of both worlds. There are others who are saying that theyre being forced to choose. That they feel devalued by the people in kiev. And theyre obviously listening to a lot of russia propaganda. And they say well, you know, were russian speaking ukrainians but were being asked, one man said to me today, im having to choose whats in my soul, whether to be a ukrainian or a russian. Andives chosen a russian because thats what i am in my soul so people are having to take sides where they didnt have to before. And are they expressing fear . There is fear, yes. I mean i think, you know, theres fear particularly among the people who want to remain part of ukraine. Lets not forget two days ago they held a rally here. They were beaten up by pro russian activists, whatever, separatists, whatever you want to call them. And the police stood and watched. One or two policemen did try to stop it but most of the police stood and watched. So those people feel that they cant, they cant fly ukrainian flags, they cant speak the ukrainian language if they are ukrainian speakers. But even if they are russian speaking ukrainians they cant now express a view to say that they want to remain part of ukraine. So theyre the ones who are feeling most intimidated and scared. Well, its certainly seems like a fastmoving situation. Simon with the Washington Post in donetsk, thank you. Pleasure, thank you, jdy. Ifill now to the plight of one of the worlds most vulnerable populations Domestic Workers. Fred de sam lazaro reports from india, part of our series agents for change. A version of freds story aired on the pbs Program Religion and ethics newsweekly. She has a staff four Domestic Workers, all living in quarters behind her large new delhi home. She also has a gardener and a night watchman. And specific timing also. Reporter the workers, migrants from more impoverished parts of india told us they were grateful for a safe home, food and a compassionate employer. A deli socialite who owns a Software Firm with her husband. I am from calcutta and came here because my husband was not earning much. And things were very tough. I done even have an education. Madame has trained me and now i know how to cook. It might seem like an indian downtown abbey, the epic british tv drama of benevolent rich employer and large household help. But in india you dont need to be rich. Nearly everyone from the lowest rungs of the middle class on occupy employs domestics. But Many Employers are not like this one, many mistreat domestic help, employing them in virtual slavery. India has strong trade union, laws that protect the rights of workers. But Domestic Work isnt covered by them. In fact, in all but a few places employers arent required to pay their Domestic Workers the legal minimum wage. One of the best known lobbyist force Domestic Worker is a belgium none. 34 years ago. It tries to organize among this vast informal workforce by some estimates as high as 40 million mostly women. Many with traffic into the work as children. Thats a whole network of money like it is amazing. Its one of the biggest incomes for most people. Just go to the village, get them, sell them back in the city. Domestic workers are very not recognized a workers lisa heads the deli office. Everyone here is a Domestic Worker we met misha she is 35 and already has worked a quarter century as a domestic. Shes hardly an exception. She is the oldest one in the neighborhood. Even at her age she is still works in two homes. Doesnt even get a day off in a month. Rafika 112 and still attends school, a 6th grader but each week day after school and on weekends she works in a home caring for a sixyearold child. How much does she get paid . 500 at least. Thats about 9 a month. Many Domestic Workers are trafkd as children. Misha was orphanned at 10 i wanted to go to school but that was not an option. With no education Domestic Work was the only option. My aunt found me a family. We are always divided by caste but we are all equal. Extreme poverty divide by caste divisions underline many problems face by domestic joseph says. You dont get respect. You have to eat off separate plates, drink from separate grasses. Joseph says the largest societal and difference was evident in the diplomatic row that fold the arrest in new york last december of an indian diplomat. Officials are angry not just at the arrest. Charged with visa fraud for paying a Domestic Worker who was also from india far less than the american minimum wage. And then lying about it. In delis official soirk els there was widespread condemnation of the diplomats treatment it provoked t, t for tat responses. Security is being removed from the u. S. Embassy. In spite of wall to wall coverage of the end did the incident in sendia joseph says the charges in india got dismissive mention. It was like why are they making a big slew by just not many do not it was not a big issue. How well a minimum wage or any law could be enforced is a big question. Davouss group did manage to get domestics included in a bill that protects workers from sexual hars. But there was strong resistance at first, she says. The rational ministry of home of women and children was clearly the home is a home and no workplace. Finally we come to know from people in the ministry that it was because its the Biggest Group behind closed doors and we wont be able to handle it. The enforcement would be too difficult. Too difficult. But slowly she says things are beginning to change, especially in the rapidly modernizing big cities. In a city like bombay will you have the same in delhi. We have areas where there is such a demand for Domestic Workers that people pay double the minimum wage. If there is a shortage of that particular group of workers, the salaries go up. And for some, its a business opportunity. This Company Named be able was started by a california native whose spouse was a british diplomat in delhi. It was a very pure business model, helping workers find people, helping people find workers. And helping them to skill up, helping them to join the organized world. Rather than keeping them in the darkness. The company places workers in homes, employers also send their domestic staff to gain skills, cooking is particularly popular. Most are Domestic Workers from the coveted diplomatic core. I have been working for the canadian. Of course it did help me in developing my interpersonal skills. How to deal with people . It definitely helped. Among worker as plying there is still a strong preference for foreign households. Maybe because they have to do this work themselves in their own country, they respect this work. They dont look at the girl who comes into their home as a slave or servant but in the past three years, i have been placing people in indian households. Things are changing. Slowly. But they are changing. A client who likes to think herself part of the shifting social mindset. The biggest is the uneducated that comes from the religious and they are also seeking to improve their own future. So i think if we who have been blessed with all this start reaching out, some day we will start making a difference. But she admits its a small start to formalize a mostly underground industry that thrives on an a bund ant supply of impoverished women. For now activists must help one at a time and perhaps in a generation. From morning until night everything i do is for my daughter. Because all of the problems i have had in my life have been because i didnt have an education. I want my daughter to study. She cant see the stigma ever going a going away, she says and is determined she wont see her daughter ever become a Domestic Workers. The reporting ifill freds reporting is a partnership with the undertold stories project at Saint Marys University in minnesota. Woodruff the american Midterm Election season is about to heat up with 13 primaries scheduled this month. That means tons of political tv ads will hit the airwaves. They are still overwhelmingly negative, but things have taken a bit of a turn away from the typical mudslinging at least compared to 2012. When mitt romney and bain closed the plant, i lost my health care, and my family lost their health care. And a short time after that my wife became ill. Woodruff this sort of negative ad by the proobama super pac priorities u. S. A. Was the norm for outside groups during the 2012 president ial campaign. And both sides got in on the action. We all know about solyndra, the white house emails, the f. B. I. Raids. Solyndra investors raised Campaign Money for obama. The government gives solyndra half a billion in taxpayer money. Politics as usual. Woodruff but this year, some outside groups show signs of moving away from all negative, all the time. Kantar media, which tracks all political advertising, reports 29 of outside ads so far this cycle have been positive. Up from 20 two years ago. In north carolina, the Senate Majority pac is running this ad in support of democratic incumbent kay hagan. She took on drug companies. She protects my medicare and social security. Woodruff opposing hagan, karl roves american Crossroads Group is backing republican thom tillis in next weeks g. O. P. Primary. The conservative guts to replace obamacare with Honest Health care reforms. Protect our voter i. D. Law. North carolina values for a change. Woodruff positive or negative, outside groups are already spending heavily, with Senate Control up for grabs in november. The wesleyan media project says 59 of ads run so far in Senate Campaigns have come from outside groups. The spending is sure to accelerate as the Campaign Heats up, and if history is any judge the ads will just as surely turn more negative again. To understand where we are now and what to expect as we get closer to november. John brabender is a republican admaker and consultant. He was an adviser to Rick Santorums president ial campaign in 2012. And john geer is a professor of Political Science at Vanderbilt University and the author of in defense of negativity attack ads in president ial campaigns. Is welcome. You both to the newshour, were not talking about a massive shift here. Everybody has got a conscious all of a sudden in this industry. Thats right. I mean it was we said it was 2 and 10, now 3 and 10 so far this year but why any more positive ads. I think it is a combination of reasons. First of all i do think there was some negative fat agency where people felt there was some of negative ads it didnt work in many cases so there was a tendency lets tripos difficult. Woodruff what dow mean, when you said they didnt work in many cases what dow mean. People were looking at polling data in a lot of the senate races and so forth where there was this overwhelming negative ads and didnt see allots of polling numbers. So the conclusion that pollsters came up with is evidently negative ads dont work like they used to. In fact i would argue political ads dont work in general like they used to. Uninvited guests in peoples home, they are poorly done. As an industry instead of making them better or more interesting we just run them more often. Woodruff so john geer what would you add to that. Why do you think there is any increase in positive ads . Well, i think johns got it right. I mean theres maybe some fat agency out there but its bottom line is these things havent worked. You think about the amount of money in 2012. And at the president level they were rarely moved. Sometimes in primaries they can make a difference because the candidates are less wellknown. But at the same time primaries tend not to be as negative because youve got members of the same party attacking but they are more reluctant to go supernegative. John bra bender what would be the calculus, if you are an outside group and want to help your candidate what would be the circumstances that would lead you to put a positive message out right now. I think a big part of it is if you look people started earlier this time. When dow start earlier the ads are more positive in the beginning and move to become more negative because somebody is losing. Second of all there is a lot of primaries this time so if you are a conservative group you may want to help one conservative but it doesnt mean you want to take down a secretary conservative some there is a tennessee to stay more positive and to the go after somebody else who might agree with you 9 out of 10 times instead of 10 out of 10 times. Woodruff so pick up on that, i mean it is the fact that you have more people running in some of these primaries. You do. And when you have the other thing about primaries is it is not just that republicans dont want to attack other republicans but when you have a multicandidate race you run the risk of a tk somebody. And the third candidate comes out of the blue and all of a sudden wins because that person looks like theyre getting no criticism and therefore theyre qualified. John brabender what do you accomplish with what are some of the things you can get done with a positived . Well, it still comes down to first of all people want to like who they vote for so there is a tendency for some consultants to want to throw everything out there. Where they went to college. People first and foremost want to know they like you and that they trust you. And so i do think the best positive ads are those that do feature the candidates in a way that they let people see the real them, not some facade, not some hollywood glitz candidate but authenticity makes so john geer why wouldnt there be more of it. You would think that every can the da, every outside Group Supporting a candidate would want to do Something Like that but they dont. They tend not to. They may have learned lessons from 2012. They are leading them to be a little bit more positive it i mean one of the things about adses is that they have to tap Something Real and that real may be negative t may be positive. And right now people are trying to just get a positive feel for these can dats. Move forward and Say Something that resonates with the public in a time when theres a lot of unhappiness. And lets talk about that, john. You both have referred to the fact that ads in general are just not having the impact that they used to. What is going on out there. Not just political ads, ads in general. Think about this. People who are under the age of 30 dont own a tv. 61 who are watching tv actually have some other device that theyre also looking at. And so when the commercials come on nevers not paying attention. And third of all, political ads people now seem to have a filter that says i dont believe it in many cases. And so the ads that are successful is when you do catch a candidate saying something and you can show they really did this, those work. The ones where they are just negative music, negative picture, negative words, people just tune them out. John what would you add to that you have been studying peoples reactions to ads. Well, i think actually adds, john is right, ads arent having the same kind of effect but there is an important component that needs to be talked about. A lot of these ads the audiences being target ready journalists and pundits an commentators because that shapes the narrative of the campaign so political ads nice days arent just about voters, theyre also trying to get journalists to Court Campaign in a way those candidates want coverage. And are you suggesting that journalists prefer negative ads s that the implication here . Yes, absolutely. And thats partly why we have a rise of negativity because consultants know that the negative ads get the attention and so therefore they produce them and journalists cover them. And its kind of an interesting cycle that arises. I mean journalists dont care to cover positive ads as much as they do negative ads, number one. And also the whole model has shiftedded. It used to be that the newspapers would write something and would you immediately create a tv commercial around maybe the negativity, negative story on your opponent. Now you are targeting the media to get them to write something negative based upon what you are saying. So the whole model has sort of changed backwards. Woodruff all the are reason im glad we are talking about positive ads tonight. If these Television Spots though arent working and im going off briefly here into an area we werent supposed to go off into, john geer, what is reaching people . Well, i think one of the things that seems to be mattered more is turnout efforts, grass roots of thes to actually contact voters directly to get them to the polls. I suspect that is what is really paying dividends these days. We dont have american swing voters, people are going to vote democrat, republican, in their partisan ways. I think the real issue is getting your base to turn out and that is what will probably drive the 2014 election. Well, i think thats right. I think more and more what campaigns are about though is talking to those people who are undecided instead of the mass media, so to spaechblingt i know at our firm we do more digital work because we can view social, we can use online. To find out more news oriented seekers rather than just try to blinly follow a lot of people who may not even turn out and vote. John bra bend are is the bottom line that you expect advertising to turn more negative. Just typically negative for the rest of the campaign. If you want to go to vegas and put something on a sure bet i can tell you that there will be just as many negative ads this cycle as there were last cycle by the time we come to election day. Do you agree with that, john geer. Absolutely. Well both go to vegas together. Okay. All right, on that uplifting note, john geer, John Brabender we thank you both. Thank you. Thank you. Ifill finally tonight, what to do about a decades long growth in the number of americans behind bars . That was the subject of a gathering of policymakers, academics and Law Enforcement officials meeting in washington today. Its also the focus of new Research Released this week that questions how effective government has been at reducing crime. Jeffrey brown looks deeper, with the author of one of the new reports. The u. S. Female population is the largest in the world with more than 2 Million People behind bars. And while a nation that counts for 5 of the worlds population it houses 25 of its prisoners. These numbers have increased fourfold over the past 40 years. A new report by the National Academy of sciences examines the causes and consequences of this explosion in rates and recommends the u. S. Revise its current criminal justice policies in order to cut down the figures. The qhar of the committee that issued the report joins us now, Jeremy Travis of John Jay College of criminal justice in new york, welcome to you. Thank you for the invitation. First the sheer size of this population which you call historically unprecedented and internationally unique. What are the key drivers that got us there . So the drivers are a big change in our pennal posture as a country so the how we think about punishment. How we think about how do respond to crime. And we have invested heavily in prison as a response to crime. That has been part of our political discussion and part of our criminal justice discussion. So are you citing mandatory minimum sentencesing longer sentences, use of prison for certain crimes than perhaps in the past would not have been used. What are the costs that you cite clearly societya costses that you talk about here. Some of it has to do clearly with racial and ethnic minorities. Lets start with the fiscal cost. The fiscal costs are enormous. States now spend 57 billion a year for their state prisons. Theres another 27 billion for jails. Another 6 billion for the federal system which continues to grow. And those costs are enormous and those costs, those expenditures are squeezing out other Public Purposes like education, health care, housing, things that the taxpayer might rather see their money invested in. But as you indicated there are other cost that we document in this report. We review the evidence. This is a science report from the National Academy. So we would view the evidence on the consequence of having quadrupled the rate of incarceration for our country and democracy. We looked at the prisons themselves. We now have many prisons that are overcrowded because weve squeezed a lot of people into not much more space theyre getting fewer programs, less well prepared for their inevitable return home. But we also look at the consequences for their families. We have now two Million People who children who have a parent in prison. Consequences the inner generational consequences are very profound. For their communities, there are consequence of lots of people being churned in and out of the prison system. And these consequences are concentrated in a small number of communities of color, poor communities where people are already struggling with a lot of other adverse circumstances. Perhaps the most controversial, perhaps, notion here is that the idea that more incarceration leads to a lower crime rate. Youre suggesting doesnt hold up. Right. But at least doesnt hold up in the way that we thought of in the past. Certainly not to make up for the kind of costs you talked about. Explain that. This conclusion might surprise people. So we reviewed the evidence on the relationship between incarceration and public safety. And there are a number of studies that have been done. The basic conclusion of our committee is that its hard to have any mathematical precision about this question. We acknowledge that there is some effect of having lots more people in prison on crime rates and thats not a surprise. But we also note that the studies basically show that the effect is very small. So we have had a big increase in incarceration rates and that was justified by our elected officials and public understanding as being necessary to reduce crime. And we have a small effect w some uncertainty in terms of the precision of the estimation of that effect. So this big debt has not paid off. So the basic recommendation of our panel is in light of those very nominal benefits and the enormous costs, financial and others, theres time to reverse course. And what does that mean . What kind of all attorneys are you calling for . What examples if any do you see already out there in the states or at the federal level . So another finding that might surprise people is that the increase in incarceration has not been driven by crime rates. So crime has gone up and gone down over this 40 year period. And the incarceration has gone up every year. If you went back further in our history, sort of the turmoil of the 60s and 70s created an environment in which we became tough on crime, law and order, we remember that rhetoric. But over time the growth of our prison population is not tied to crime rates. So what are the drives if its not crime. The drivers are choices that weve made to make long sentences longer. And to put people in prison who otherwise would not have gone to prison. Mandatory minimum sentence so thats that evidence gives us great confidence in making recommendations to the states and federal government that they should review the mandatory minimums, the truth in sentencing statutes that keep people in prison longer. The three strikes and are you out reforms. All of these reforms we adopted over the decades have not have any had any significant crime control effect and we specifically recommend a reexamination of Drug Enforcement policy. The per capita rate of incarceration for drug offenses has gone up tenfold while the overall rate has gone up fourfold so weve invested a lot in the Drug Enforcement policy and in fact drug prices have come down when they should have gone up with more enforcement. And drug use has stayed constant so here is an example of a policy that is not paying the benefits that the public had hoped for. Let me ask you briefly, finally, theres a lot, this discussion is in the air, right, about the prisons. Youre throwing out a bunch of things that really aim at policies that have been there for several decades. How viable, how much pushback, how much of a discussion or possibility, really, for reform do you think is there right now . Our committee took note of and is heartened by the amount of the reform in the air. And its not more a matter of left versus right. The republican party, the Democratic Party have come together on these issues, state governments are now revisiting some of these policies. The federal government, even recently, the government has made some important pronouncements so there is no question that things are changing and changing in essence in the directions that were recommending. But even given that optimism, our review of the history should remind us as a nation that this is a very difficult set of policy choices that we have to make to reverse course because it took us 40 years to get here. We hope that the current high level incarceration is not the new normal forever because the affects are quite profound. It is called action. We hope our evidence will help support this political and public discussion that will put us in a different direction. Jeremy travis, thank you so much. Thank you for the invitation. Ifill again, the major developments of the day. The pentagon announced reports of Sexual Assaults in the military were up by 50 last year. Officials said its victims are now more willing to come forward. And cleanup from heavy flooding began, from florida to philadelphia, after a storm system that dumped one to two feet of rain in some places. Woodruff on the newshour online right now you cant buy a selfdriving car just yet. But we take you into the robotics lab at George Washington university to see the world through the eyes of one. Scientists use everything from toy cars to a fullsize lexus to test the technology that may one day drive us to work and back. Watch that video on our science page. And picking the perfect wedding gift is made easier by a registry, but why give towels when you can give a gift from the heart, like a donation to a charity . Read about a social entrepreneur whose website, justgive. Org, is making it easier to do just that. All that and more is on our web site newshour. Pbs. Org. Woodruff and thats the newshour for tonight. On friday, what the latest jobs numbers say about the state of the u. S. Economy. Im gwen ifill. Woodruff and im judy woodruff. Well see you online, and again here tomorrow evening with mark shields and david brooks among others. For all of us here at the pbs newshour, thank you and good night. Major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by moving our economy for 160 years. Bnsf, the engine that connects us charles schwab, proud supporter of the pbs newshour. And the william and flora hewlett foundation, helping people build immeasurably better lives. 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