Transcripts For KQED Frontline 20150930

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Is it just a residential area . Okay, thanks very much. Disaster at christmas. Pan am flight 103 had been in the air for an hour, but for reasons we do not yet understand, the plane with 50,000 gallons of fuel on board plunged into a small scottish town. Covered lockerbie with liquid fire. The fuselage reportedly split in two. There is very little hope, i would have thought, for anybody who was in that plane. When it did come to earth, it hit very hard. Okay, roll camera. Slate. Scene four, take one. Action. I mean, for some time, the impression has been growing upon me that everyone is dead. When that plane went down, david was figuring out how to be true to himself as an artist. Cut, cut, cut. He had an insatiable appetite for everything. phone ringing hello . He lived his life saying yes. And when the rest of us were sleeping, he was reading and writing. And when the rest of us were awake, he was more awake. The aspiring novelist had wanted to surprise his family with an Early Arrival home. Instead, he wound up on the doomed flight 103 and never made it. This was what his brother had to say today. Dornstein somewhere in scotland, lockerbie, youre looking for your notebook. A pen. Its there in the debris. And i remember you giving the memorial, and we thought it was great. You were reading letters from david. You know, i get the sense that you kind of look up to him, and he was older, but he thought so highly of you. Only one man was ever convicted for the crime a libyan who was to spend the rest of his life in prison. Was to spend the rest of his life. Today, the government of scotland released abdel basset almegrahi. The former libyan intelligence agent is dying from prostate cancer. Scottish officials are granting him what they call a compassionate release. Relatives of the victims are outraged. Dornstein and then i saw the motorcade covered from every angle, and the only person ever convicted of the bombing of flight 103, the murderer of your daughter, my brother. Tonight, the lockerbie bomber flew home. Dornstein im watching him go free live on television. An innocent dying man or mass murderer set free . Dornstein im asking myself, is the murderer getting away . And how far would i go to find out whether he is who he seems to be . Qaddafis ouster and death in 2011 provided lockerbie investigators with a new opportunity. In tripoli, the smell of victory. Dornstein and i guess what i was thinking was, maybe you could show up in libya, and maybe it would be possible to get an answer for once. As long as its good for you. Dornstein i dont know if its good for me. You know, my wife and kids say, maybe its not great for you to be running around a failed state. Now, thats true. You maybe want to be careful about being an american in libya. In some perverse way, im glad that youre tracking down the last of the killers and finding justice for your brother and my friend. I think that david would have enjoyed the chase and enjoyed the idea that you were going to sit down with his murderer. Remind me when youre going . Dornstein tomorrow. What time . Dornstein just until sunday. Uh, the plane leaves at 4 00, 4 30. A. M. . Dornstein so when i take you guys to school, ill say goodbye because i wont be here when you get back. I never know with you, i thought it was going to be 4 30 in the morning. Dornstein no, but i want to explain. I mean, you guys know i do a bunch of different kinds of films, but this one film that ive been doing. I havent spoken much about it because i never. I mean, i know you guys know that i had a brother, but you probably havent heard me say that much about him. Have you guys seen pictures of uncle david . Yes, i have. He had very curly hair. Dad, is this you . Dornstein theres uncle david. There he is with some shaving cream. He looks very thoughtful, hes like, hm. Dornstein so thats uncle david when he was little. Thats uncle david. Nine . He looks eight or nine. Dornstein yeah, he could have been your age. Seven, eight, or nine. Dornstein he could have been your age there. Thats aunt susan . Dornstein thats aunt susan. She looks like a little girl. Guess who this is . kids laughing that so looks like you that is so you. Dornstein i had my hair parted very. I was gonna say, sam, do you think he slicked his hair . No, i dont. He was very geek chic. Dornstein you see uncle david kind of growing up. Hes kind of teenagerish there. He was just like you guys, he went to camp. He had girlfriends. Dornstein anyway, if he had lived, he would have been, like, a real character. He would have come to dinner. Wait, whos this . Dornstein this is his college graduation. He looks a bit like you. Dornstein thats uncle david. He thought we looked alike too. Is that you . Dornstein i used to think, we dont look at all alike. Dad, thats you hes just like me. Hes younger, but hes just like me. He even looks sort of like me. What is going on here . Im sending a letter home to my brother. So i told him id tell him what brunch was all about, so im taping brunch. Hi, bro stephanies from long island. Whats your brothers name . My brothers name is ken. How old is ken . 15. David saw in you a kindred spirit, but also one of his best friends. And i marveled at that. Here he is, this towering figure on campus, and my god, he loves his brother, whos in high school, he just talks about him all the time. Dornstein the actual incident itself, the lockerbie bombing, do you care at all about who did it or why . I certainly care about it. It personalizes what terrorism means because i lost someone i loved in a terrorist act. But i found it impossible to associate davids death with the images of plane fragments on the ground in scotland. I still cant. All i can think of is david alive. One of those dead was remembered today here in the delaware valley. Tearful relatives and friends, gathering at Temple Beth Sholom in elkins park to honor the memory of 25yearold David Dornstein of cheltenham. Dornstein when david died, i was 19 years old. I was home from college for christmas break, and my sister was on her way as well. My father took the call from the airline, and i sat with him as we got the news that david was gone. The relatives of some of those who died have arrived in britain from america. Dornstein many families flew immediately to lockerbie, but mine stayed home. The bombing became a topic we could never manage to discuss. It was a week ago tonight that flight 103 fell out of the sky, leaving a 100mile trail of twisted wreckage and 270 victims. Today, investigators said the evidence was conclusive it was a bomb. At the center of their search is the crater which was gouged out of the ground by the pan american jet. President reagan said the u. S. Would make every effort to find out who bombed the pan am jet. I have been following quite closely the details of the pan am 103 tragedy. And now that we know definitely that it was a bomb, were going to make every effort we can to find out who was guilty. I would hope to god that our government would definitely take a long, hard look at this, because if we dont. Dornstein a group of relatives quickly became public campaigners for the truth about lockerbie. Jim swire said, were not going to go away until we get what we want. Dornstein among the most prominent and controversial was a british doctor named jim swire, whod lost his 23yearold daughter. I remember the hair on the back of my neck standing up the first time somebody in the media actually used the word murder. I remember the impact of that word, the concept that my lovely daughter should have been murdered. And i remember being aimlessly numb. I really couldnt concentrate or anything. My partners fortunately realized i couldnt go on working at that time. So that career in medicine was cut short, and it gave more time and thinking space, if you like, to deal with the enormity of the lockerbie disaster. The finger of suspicion is pointing at radical palestinian groups, men who see violence as the only way. Dornstein early theories pinned the bombing on a terror group based in syria and backed by iran. Top of the list is ahmed jibril, syrianbacked head of the radical. Dornstein but what role, if any, iran played in the plot remained unclear, and i grew quietly obsessed with the mystery. Yet another week of investigation into the bombing of pan am flight 103 is nearly at an end, and it is laborious. The questions where and how was the bomb placed on the plane, and who did it . Okay, are we all set . Good morning. For three years, the United States and scotland have been conducting one of the most exhaustive and complex investigations in history. Dornstein finally, there is a press conference. Now theyre saying, weve got the results and were going to tell you who we believe did it and why. Yes, we saw the statement being put out in america. Today, were announcing an indictment in the case. Its an exciting moment because there is the assumption that were going to find out the truth. We charge that two libyan officials acting as operatives of the libyan intelligence service, along with other coconspirators, planted and detonated the bomb that destroyed pan am flight 103. Murder warrants are out tonight for two libyan spies. They are now formally charged with bombing pan am flight 103 out of the sky over lockerbie, scotland. Dornstein there are these two men, libyan operatives of some kind, and you hear their names for the first time abdel basset almegrahi and lhamen fhimah. Abdel basset almegrahi is accused of being the mastermind of the pan am 103 bombing. Dornstein i remember the story coming on and trying to feel something about this. My god, it was libya. And i remember trying to work up a sense of the proper hatred for these two men. At that point, my reaction was, oh, thank goodness, were going to see two of the murderers brought to justice. Fhimah allegedly brought plastic explosives from libya to malta, where the two men constructed a bomb. Dornstein were you interested in the details who built the bomb, and where was it made, and how was it transported . Did those kind of details interest you . They certainly did. I mean, if somebody tells you something, somebody says, look, megrahi did it, my reaction to that is, well, prove it. Dornstein the plot reportedly came down to a bomb built into a radio cassette player packed with semtex explosive. It was the libyans who were accused of buying the clothes and the bomb bag and getting it all onto flight 103. Two libyans are on trial at a court set up in the netherlands. Theyve always insisted they are innocent. Dornstein it would take almost ten years before the suspects were turned over and families like mine were finally able to hear the evidence. And when it was all over, the verdict was a disappointingly mixed bag. A split decision. For lhamen khalifa fhimah, acquittal. But abdel basset ali almegrahi found guilty as charged. The court ruled this senior libyan. Would i like to have tried the case in the United States . Sure. But, i mean, i dont know what more we could have done. Dornstein Brian Murtagh was one of the top u. S. Prosecutors on the case. I believe that the evidence was there to convict megrahi correctly and to sustain his conviction. I wish that fhimah had been convicted because i think the same should be said of him. But the judges didnt see it that way. After waiting 12 years, it was some level of justice. Obviously, you can never bring your kid back. Over and over today, the family members wanted to know, will the u. S. Now pursue libyan leader moammar qaddafi . Dornstein the theory was that lockerbie had been revenge for the u. S. Bombing of libya back in 1986. That one of Moammar Qaddafis houses was hit. Dornstein but qaddafi always denied a role in pan am 103. His government claimed to have been pressured into paying money to families like mine and issuing a carefully worded statement. But they never took real responsibility for the bombing, and the story, to me, never truly felt finished. You hear so often the term closure, but i dont believe in closure. I dont think there is closure, not in this case. Dornstein this was going to be an interview with sam about his dinner. What else do you want to say about your life . First, ill introduce everybody. This is sophie girl, whos. Shes gonna turn three, right . Yeah. And im sam, and im gonna turn six in september. And that is my dad, ken. Dornstein some 20 years after the bombing, i was no longer davids little brother. I was married with two kids and working on documentaries for frontline in boston. When the kids were very young, i wrote a book about davids brief life, but id largely put my questions about his death out of my mind. Then, in the summer of 2009, something unexpected happened that brought it all back. There is a possibility tonight that the only person convicted in the bombing of pan am flight 103 over lockerbie, scotland, might soon go free after just ten years in prison. Some relatives of the 270 victims are outraged. Dornstein the one man convicted for the bombing was diagnosed with cancer and was said to have just three months to live. Abdel basset almegrahi is dying of prostate cancer. Scottish officials are considering granting him what they call a compassionate release. Clearly hes terribly ill. Dornstein and then megrahis let go by the Scottish Government. How did you feel about that . I mean, ive lost cases in court, jury acquittals, and that hurts. But nothing hurt as much as this. Abdel basset almegrahi on his final uneasy steps to freedom, terminally ill with prostate cancer. Dornstein i mean, i remember thinking its like watching a guy get away with murder in real time. Yep. Unlike our system, we have compassionate release, but you really have to be at deaths door. He wasnt that sick. It was a decision met with outrage at the highest levels. We have been in contact with the Scottish Government indicating that we objected to this, and we thought it was a mistake. President obama said the u. S. Deeply regrets the decision and warned libya not to give him a heros welcome. The libyans werent listening. Megrahi emerged wearing a suit, the frail former inmate unrecognizable as he acknowledged the jubilant crowd. Dornstein i remember being shocked by megrahis release. His conviction hadnt been fully satisfying, but at least it was an answer. Now, all that was coming undone. My brother and the others had been killed, and certainty about who did it was being wiped away. Some relatives of the lockerbie dead believe megrahi should go free. They dont believe he was guilty in the first place. Dornstein megrahis release also gave momentum to those who believed he wasnt guilty at all, and theories pinning lockerbie on iran were once again revived. I wished i could let it go, but instead, i decided to set out on my own search for answers. I began by tracking down the fbi agent who had worked longer than anyone on the lockerbie case richard marquise. There he is, dick marquise. How are you . Good to see you, ken. Dornstein almost 25 years later, no one has ever admitted playing any role in it, and in fact, megrahi, the one man convicted, hes let go after serving only eight years under a cloud of suspicion. Nobody is paying for this. Nobody is paying judicially for blowing up pan am 103. Thats a great frustration. Qaddafi was told, if your agents are found guilty, you have to admit responsibility for the attack. And all he would admit to was responsibility for the actions of my agents. I think its terrible that we allowed him to get away with that statement. When i spoke to the lockerbie families, i said, i wished we could have gotten more for you. Megrahi was the only person convicted because hes the only person that the evidence led to. But if he did this, he didnt do it by himself. Megrahis the tip of the iceberg. If i was writing the novel version, we would have identified not only the people who put the bomb on the plane, but those who ordered it up the chain of command, and put them all in jail. That would have been the fantasy. knocking dornstein over the years, i have gotten to know a lot of the investigators and prosecutors who worked on the case. Dornstein stuart henderson. Ken, pleased to meet you. Dornstein ive visited their homes, here and abroad, and heard their stories. We didnt have any evidence of that. Dornstein theyre almost all retired now, and almost to a man, they feel unsatisfied with the way it all ended. How frustrated do you think we are to be detectives whove been all over the world trying to get an answer to this and cant get access to what we want . At no stage did i ever say i just wanted megrahi. I said i wanted all of them, because there was no doubt in my mind he isnt the only one. He was the baggage man, and he got caught, and rightly so. But i would like to have seen the rest of them. No, the case isnt finished because all those responsible for the crime have not been identified and prosecuted, much less convicted. Dornstein is the u. S. Government interested in them . I hope so. Thats my hope, but i dont know. I have no idea. The government has moved on, the fbi has moved on. There are other things. Lockerbie is still an open case that somebody has assigned to him, but does it get daily attention . I dont know the answer to that. Its not just another murder case. Its 270 people, 189 of them american, all of the victims totally innocent, and its an attack on the United States. Ill go to my grave believing that qaddafi either ordered it or knew about it and let it happen, and it was perpetrated by a cast of characters that we may never fully identify in the libyan intelligence service. Late this afternoon, the nose of the pan am jet was finally lifted from the hillside three miles from lockerbie. And the only way were ever going to find out what happened fully is somebody walks in that was involved and lays it all out for us, or theres a regime change in libya. Protests all across the arab world from morocco to iran. Governments have fallen in tunisia and egypt. Will libya be next . Dornstein in the summer of 2011, regime change in libya suddenly seemed possible. Libya is burning. Rage against the tyranny of moammar qaddafi is sweeping the country. Dornstein as the rebels gained ground, i began to wonder about making the trip to libya myself, searching for answers to more than 20 years of questions. Signs that qaddafi is losing his iron grip. Dornstein qaddafi might be out, and maybe if he leaves, the people who bombed uncle davids plane will be there. And maybe if theyre not afraid of him anymore, maybe theyll sit down with me and, you know, tell me the truth. Would you do it even if it meant leaving your kids, who you love so much, and your wife and your life together . Well, to find the culprit would mean. I know it would mean a lot to me if i found someone who knew, and just having everything being clarified and knowing everything. At least knowing what happened can help. It really can help clear up your questions. printer whirring my experience in dealing with victims is they want to see those who perpetrated the crime, killing their loved one, held accountable and punished accordingly. And i think what they want to hear from the perpetrator is an admission of guilt and an expression of remorse. So, i certainly understand as a documentarian, journalist, that you are trying to make sense out of this unthinkable, inexplicable, and in a sense, unresolved crime. Dornstein so you had a list of names . Oh, yeah. Dornstein how many names would have been on the list . Probably ten. Stuart henderson and i, we both left lists with our successors to say, if you get to libya, this is what you ought to do, who you ought to go after, who you should talk to. Every one of these, at some stage, played a part in it. And the list read quite clearly. There was Abdullah Senussi, ezzedine hinshiri, who did the ordering of explosive device timers, said mohammed rashid, badri hassan. Weve got abdullah zadma, nassr ashur, an expert in making sure that bombs go off, Mohamed Ibrahim bishari, and a surprise expert in charge, explosives in particular, a surprise mechanic, you could say, that started the ball rolling. He holds the key to it all. These are the people that must be found, and these are the people who are responsible. But i never, ever got access to them long enough to interview any of them. We got part of the conspiracy, but only a small part. Youll only get the answer to your final story with the rest of them. I think, until none of them can be found at all, then you cant stop. Dornstein the fighting in libya had closed down the main airport, so i had to find my own way in. I flew first into neighboring tunisia, then hired a driver to take me through the night toward libyas western border. Your first name is . Dornstein ken. No, no, surname. Dornstein do you want me to write it in . Dornstein put this away . It was late in the summer of 2011, as the libyan revolution reached its climax, when i finally arrived in the capital, tripoli. Lets get into it, starting with the situation in libya. It has taken a new turn. They still have no idea where moammar qaddafi is. Hes on the run tonight. After 42 years, libyas unpredictable moammar qaddafi is on the ropes and missing. Today on the streets of tripoli, the smell of victory, tempered by fear and uncertainty. Rebel forces are in control of almost all of libya and most of the capital after their lightning advance this weekend that caught qaddafis forces by surprise. But its now clear it is not over yet. There is still fierce fighting in many neighborhoods as forces loyal to qaddafi make one final stand. Dornstein after so many years of imagining this place, it was hard to believe i was actually here at qaddafis old home. rapid gunfire now his compound had become a makeshift fairground, complete with lots of celebratory gunfire, souvenirs, and a general carnival atmosphere. rapid gunfire continues by the time i arrived, the nato Bombing Campaign had taken out many of qaddafis old command and control centers, and rumors were flying that important intelligence material might have been left behind here, in qaddafis vast network of fortified bunkers. And whats this map . Uh, libya. Dornstein Suliman Ali Zway joined up with the revolution from its start in benghazi, where he was born. When i first met him, he was leading me and some other journalists on a tour of an old underground intelligence facility. This is all sealed. When tripoli fell, there were so many places that were left unguarded. Did you find qaddafi . Dornstein come out, come out, wherever you are. And we were just going through those places to show a western journalist how an authoritarian regime was operating and, you know, what kind of files they kept. Dornstein jesus, look at this room. Suliman seemed to share a deep interest in the secrets of the old regime. What do we think these tapes are . Dornstein for suliman, the search for answers was personal too. One of the reasons i went to tripoli is to find out what happened to my uncle. He was taken in 89. He was killed in the abu salim massacre. 1,200 were killed. We didnt find out until 2003. This guy protested in bani walid. Even when they said that he died, there was no body. They didnt give us a body, so. All of those years of uncertainty and theres no closure. A very big segment of Libyan Society would have a story that is similar to this. You know, people who wanted answers and tried to find some old names, you know, to solve a mystery. But the lockerbie thing, its so long ago. Everybody who might have had, you know, remotely any idea what happened in lockerbie would either be dead or out of the country or on the run with qaddafi somewhere. So, i had very little hopes to finding something substantial. Dornstein suliman was understandably skeptical, but he was willing to help. We rented an apartment on the outskirts of tripoli, and the next day, we began to search for the men on my list. These are some houses. Look at these. Dornstein a few of the men i was looking for lived in this exclusive section of tripoli. What do people think of this neighborhood . Dornstein its good to be a friend of moammars. brakes squeaking speaking arabic see you dornstein our first stop was the home of the most wellknown man on my list, Abdullah Senussi. How many people lived here . I dont know, he had a bunch of kids, you know . Dornstein Abdullah Senussi was the head of libyan intelligence at the time of lockerbie, and was actually convicted for the downing of another passenger plane that was bombed not long after flight 103. By the time of the revolution, senussi had become the second most powerful man in the country, which is likely why nato put a missile through the center of his house, an attack that senussi somehow survived. Said rashid is this, or that . It looks like this is all one thing, this style of gate. Dornstein just around the block, i went looking for another of the men on my list, said rashid. The u. S. Government had said that said rashid was one of the masterminds of lockerbie and many other attacks against the west. He was known to libyans as a ruthless qaddafi enforcer. All this damage is from looting or from nato . Dornstein rashids family had abandoned this house just a few weeks before i arrived. The place was ransacked for money and valuables. But i had come looking for evidence of rashids involvement in lockerbie. So this was said rashids office . In rashids desk, i found an arabic translation of the indictment of the libyans for pan am 103, complete with rashids handwritten notes. But there was no smoking gun. Whos that in the white . Is that said rashid . Yes, that one. Ah. Dornstein we managed to find someone still working at libyan state television, and he cued up the video of megrahis release from a scottish prison. I was told that several key suspects in the lockerbie plot had showed up to welcome him home. The first man to greet megrahi was none other than said rashid, the alleged mastermind of the plot. Dornstein but even more senior than rashid was the man who megrahi was about to greet in the front seat of this suv. Whos this . Dornstein i began to feel that megrahis return home had become a kind of reunion for the suspected lockerbie plotters. It also seemed to be a belated victory celebration. applause on video the nights featured speaker was said rashid. Dornstein listening to rashid, i tried to understand the mind of a qaddafi loyalist who may have plotted to down my brothers plane. Dornstein on this night, qaddafi couldnt have seemed more pleased with rashid. But i was told things didnt end well for him. In the chaotic early moments of the revolution, qaddafi grew paranoid and came to question the loyalty of the ultimate loyalist. Rashid was shot as a traitor. To be frank, ken, 99 of them are gone. Dornstein gone since the last six months, you mean, or gone in the last few weeks . Gone with. Yeah, a few months ago. Dornstein it wasnt easy to find anyone left who knew the men on my list personally. But then i met abdo al kanuni. His Family Business was explosives, and it brought him in contact with many in military and intelligence circles. Dornstein and how do you become trusted by the leader . Dornstein back in the 1970s, kanuni said he got involved with a controversial cia contractor named ed wilson, who used kanunis Family Business to help smuggle massive amounts of plastic explosives into libya. It was at this time that he came to have contact with many of the men on my list. Dornstein kanuni said very few people might ever have known the truth about lockerbie, and those who remained alive would likely never speak. And then there were the i still hadnt identified. Top on my list was this man in the backseat of the car that picked up megrahi. Only the key suspects in the plot seemed to be part of the welcome committee, but who was he . This is someone who might be known to somebody who knew these foreign operations in the 1980s. Dornstein abu agela . What kind of guy is he . Dornstein very active in the sort of things im talking about . Yeah. Dornstein demand . Its a request, and very humbly. Youre all weve got. And the fact that you might be able to help would be very helpful to us. Ill do my best, ken. Dornstein thank you, i know you will. I promise ill do my best. Dornstein in those early weeks in libya, i didnt think about the danger or the difficulty of what i was doing. I thought only of finding the men on my list, and getting the answers that id come for. Salaam aleikum. Salaam aleikum. speaking arabic we get something, and then we hit a wall. speaking arabic we get so excited and so close to something, and then its just another block in the road. When he saw the camera, he was like, what is he shooting . I told him were journalists, and he said, is this an investigation . You should be leaving, blah blah blah. Dornstein we should be leaving . Dont ask too many questions. Yeah. We should go. We should not abuse this. Dornstein lets go, yeah. bleep to be honest, people were like, what is this guy . What is he doing . Whats the real story . Okay, yeah, yeah, journalist, he wants to do a film. Thats not the case. You know, im sure that theres a lot of people who doubted that. It all depends on the way how you approach them about talking. Dornstein i dont think theyre going to talk because they want to help a western journalist. I think theyll talk if theyre afraid that they dont have any other options. Theyre kind of trapped now, you know . The regime that was protecting them no longer exists. Its not about threatening them. Its about saying that the game is already over, Everybody Knows about this, and its better to come forward. Dornstein somehow, we have to seem like the good option. Yeah. You have no options with the new regime. They want to clear libyas image with the west, the newly befriended west, and youre worth nothing to the new regime, so you better sing. Dornstein its worth a try. Yeah. Ornstein many a man has been afraid of me in the past. laughing dornstein yeah, they see this face, many former terrorists, they crumble. They crack immediately. Id already been away from my family for weeks, but i didnt have much to show for it. The men i was looking for had either fled the capital or were laying low in places where i would never be able to find them. This is all that remains of colonel qaddafis convoy as he tried to escape. Dornstein and then there was qaddafi himself. For weeks, qaddafi had holed up in his hometown of sirte, and when he tried to slip out one morning, a nato air strike hit his convoy point blank. Somehow, though, colonel qaddafi himself escaped from all this. Dornstein qaddafi and a few of his security detail took cover in this drainage pipe. shouting allahu akbar the rebels dragged moammar qaddafi, once the most powerful man in libya, out of a drainage ditch, and thats when the mayhem started. gunfire qaddafis last moments were recorded. His last words reportedly were, dont kill me. Dont kill my sons. Dornstein when this video hit the news, reporters began to call me and other lockerbie relatives. They wanted to know what we felt. Were we satisfied . I watched qaddafis death over and over, trying to feel some bloodlust for the man who may have given the order to blow up flight 103. But i only managed to feel a strange empathy for this beaten man pleading for his life. Rebels hoisted qaddafis body onto a truck, so the crowds could see their prize. Dornstein meanwhile, i heard a rumor that one of the remaining men on my list had been in the car with qaddafi that morning. An online video showed the man who had been taken prisoner by a vengeful rebel militia. Dornstein most were lowlevel loyalists and tribesman brought in to fight qaddafis last stand. Dornstein the prisoners were marched into a field, shot execution style, and left to rot in the desert sun. The most highprofile among them was the man id been looking for, a loyalist named ezzedine hinshiri, whod stuck with qaddafi until the bitter end. This looks like him, doesnt it . Yeah, looks like it. Dornstein i knew little of hinshiris role in lockerbie, except that hed made the initial order of the timers said to have blown up flight 103. Hinshiri had been Close Friends with said rashid. Both were engineers, both had been involved with the timers, and now both were dead. By my count, there were now only four men left on the list. One of them, i was told, had died of a heart attack just a few months earlier. He wasnt like the others, not a regular Intelligence Officer or a member of qaddafis inner circle, but an Airline Executive who may have been coopted to take part in the plot. His name was badri hassan. Badri, believe you me, is a scapegoat. Im sure he never knew what was going on until it was too late, or after it happened. Dornstein souad hassan was badris wife. Her brother yaseen worked with badri parttime and, for years, listened to his sisters questions about lockerbie. By nature, souad is very inquisitive. She always wants answers to certain things that happen. And there are certain questions that badri would not have. He would not answer to. Dornstein souad said her suspicions about badri began almost immediately after the bombing. Dornstein a short time after lockerbie . Soon afterwards. Youre sure of what . That he was involved . Dornstein souad, do you know why im so interested in all of this . Why . Dornstein i had an older brother. He was on the plane that went down over lockerbie. Really . Very sorry to hear that. So sorry. Many innocent people died. Many, many innocent people are still suffering from this. Especially me. I am very suffering about that trip, about the people who were killed in that trip. Yeah. Badri died with a lot of secrets. Ezzedine, said rashid, or abdulla senussi, they were always there at the frontline. The were always there, willing to do the wicked stuff for qaddafi. Dornstein and abdel basset. What was badris relationship with megrahi . Dornstein when was this . They met in 87. 87, at the first meeting in zurich. Dornstein zurich, switzerland. Souad told me that badri and megrahi rented an office here for more than a year before lockerbie. It turned out they were right down the hall from the Swiss Company mebo that made the timer said to have blown up flight 103. Its thought that this device was bought from mebo in zurich. Badri was the connection between this mebo company and the libyan intelligence. Yeah. Badri tried to prove that they didnt know what the device was going to be used for. Dornstein do you think abdel basset knew what the device was going to be used for . I think abdel basset, he knows everything. Dornstein did badri keep documents . I know he was secretive, but. Lets go upstairs and just have a look. Dornstein is it locked . Yeah. Dornstein its locked. And we dont have a key. No. Dornstein i later learned that souads oldest son held the key and didnt think it was safe to potentially expose any of badris secrets. Did he ever tell you anything about these papers, that these were papers that were to be opened if anything ever happened to him . He didnt tell me nothing. No, no, he never does. Nothing. Very secretive man. Yeah. The truth has to come out about pan am 103. The connection of switzerland. The connection of megrahi. The connection of zurich. You would get a lot of information out of a certain swiss person, mr. Bollier . Bollier. Hes located in zurich. Zurich. His mebo company. Bollier met with badri many times, both in zurich and in libya, i think. A couple of times, three or four times, ive seen him in libya prior to the lockerbie incident. But im sure, im definitely positive that mebo knows of badris secrets. He was deeply involved with the libyans, this bollier. Very, very close. The libyans were operational in zurich, and were getting supplied with timing devices for bombs by bollier. The scots and the u. S. Government had a difference of opinion about bollier. Stuart henderson will tell you we looked at bollier 100 as a suspect. I treated him like that. I treated him like a suspect. Dornstein hold on, well get reset. I want everyone to get back in there. But i also thought, this guys a witness. We want to treat him like a witness. Because we wanted to know whats his answer going to be, do you know who blew up pan am 103 . Dornstein ready for takeoff. Rolling. Next time on my brothers bomber. The cockpit landed in this field over here. The lights on the Instrument Panel were still lit. From libya. Am i going to make a scene and go into the room and say, did you murder my brother . To zurich. There was a man there. He was still in the same office, same place where the timer that they say had blown up flight 103. Wow. Next timfrontline, ken dornsteins search continues. Go to pbs. Org frontline for more about the search for answers in the bombing of pan am flight 103. Lockerbies still an open case that somebody has assigned to him. Explore an interactive guie to filmmaker ken dornsteins investigation into the attack. We got part of the conspiracy, but only a small part. Connect to thfrontline community on facebook and twitter. Visit us on youtube for even more original frontline reporting. And if stories like this matter to you, then sign up for our newsletter at pbs. Org frontline. Frontlinis made possible by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. Thank you. And by the corporation for public broadcasting. Major support for frontliis provided by the john d. And catherine t. Macarthur foundation, committed to building a more just, verdant and peaceful world. More information is available at macfound. Org. 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