We begin with a look at the continuing story of the russian probe in washington. We talk to dan balz, chief correspondent for the post once you go down the road of having a special counsel and degree to which this is an expanding investigation, it will slow down the white house. Everybody will have in a sense the dual responsibility, they obviously have a responsibility to the country and to the president to help in the governing process but they will also feel an obligation to themselves to take whatever precautions they may need or simply to be as open as they feel they should be to cooperate in the investigation. As you say, it should not be a suggestion that they have something to hide. But its wise to have your own counsel when youre in situations like this. We continue with Jeffrey Goldberg, editor and chief. This one of the Little Secrets of much of Donald Trumps support. Its as i think there are a lot of people who voted for him who looked at this administration and do understand analytically that its dysfunctional. Hes not delivering. But that feeling is outweighed by a feeling of just loathing and repull shun for his critics. In other words, there are people who voted for donald trump who quite possibly saw donald trump as the very flawed figure that other people see him as. But they just see the other side as worse. And we conclude with author and new Yorker David Grann his new back is called killers of the flower moon. The osage murders and the birth of the fbi i was shocked that i had never read about this in school. It was not part of my history books and when i saw that photograph at the museum where a portion had been cut out because it contained one of the killers, the osage had removed that picture not to forget, but because they cant forget and yet here were so many people including myself who no knowledge of these crimes. Had forgotten or had into knowledge, my hope with the book or the movie this will become part of our National Narrative as it should be dan balz Jeffrey Goldberg and david grann when we continue. Rose funding for charlie rose has been provided by the following and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. This is charlie rose. It was not business as usual in washington this week. A mass shooter opened fire during batting practice at the republican congressional baseball teams practice four were wounded including the whip of the republican majority, steve scalise. The Washington Post report that day special Counsel Robert Mueller is investigating President Trump for possible obstruction of justice. And a spokesman for Vice President pence confirmed he has hired outside counsel to handle the various inquiries. Dan balz joins me from washington. The chief correspondent for the Washington Post. Dan. Let me begin with the Vice President hiring outside counsel, distinguished lawyer from richmond virginia. . Does this say what is likely to be a pattern within inside the white house, that members of the senior staff who have been around President Trump as he discussed various aspects of the Russian Investigation, and his feelings toward it could well end up being interviewed by the special counsel and that theyre going to need outside counsel. President , as we know has outside counsel at this point. And the fact that the Vice President has decided he needs it i think will be taken by a signal as a signal to everybody inside the white house who might have some knowledge, cup ability whatever you want to call it it should be presumed that in todays world, you need someone who understands that world to guide you . I think thats right. I think part of it is also a way to compartment lize. They have day jobs beyond what this investigation is doing. But i believe theres another aspect of this, which is it is a reminder that once you go down the road of having a special counsel and the some being considered its my understanding that in a criminal investigation like that, it would be very difficult for them to invoke executive privilege. And< far, there has been no action to do so. I mean, both the testimony we saw a week ago with dan coats and admiral rogers and the testimony this week with the attorney general Jeff Sessions, though they would not talk about their conversations with the president bearing on the specific questions of what he might have said about the Russian Investigation or anything related to that. They were not invoking executive privilege and so, that seems to be the line theyre trying to walk. But its a much more difficult line to walk if theyre interviewed by bob mueller or members of his staff. Or the fbi. Yes. And you always have the question, what is obstruction of justice . It came about in a consideration of mike flynn and ill hope youll do something about that. Is that obstruction of justice or an idea of the president is trying to say i hope this doesnt go anywhere and i hope youll let it go director comey said two things, he took the president s words as directive, he certainly didnt act on them. But he also deferred on the question of does that amount to obstruction of justice, but said thats something that the special counsel in the investigation will have to answer. I think the fact that mr. Mueller opened an investigation into that question is in some ways not surprising, given the testimony from director comey last week. On the other hand, its significant certainly because it puts the president directly in the line as a target of the investigation. I shouldnt use that in a legal term. But that he is now being investigated. At the same time, we shouldnt leap to the conclusion that that means that there is a case for obstruction of justice. In a sense, i think its mr. Mueller would have been criticized had he not kind of begun to look at that question but theyre in the preliminary stage. Well see where, if anywhere, the evidence takes him. Theres certainly enough for him to want to look at it and interview a lot of people about it. You have a man a special counsel who subpoenaed power and the power of the fbi all working with him. Yes. I mean, you now have we have a full fledged investigation that includes the conduct of the president of the United States. In a sense, we, we need to step back and recognize the gravity of that situation. Again, without without determining what the conclusion is going to be. This puts the president in a terribly, terribly difficult position and all of those around him. You know, these are serious lawyers who are working for bob mueller and theyre going to do everything they can to run a very serious and thorough investigation. Thats going to take time. Its going to make people uncomfortable. And it could well land some people with criminal indictments. We dont know. Theres a lot of threads. Obviously the question what, if any, russia did in the election. But theres also, obviously, the question of whether or not there was collusion or cooperation with trump associates. What other things were being done. Theres now some theres indication that the investigation is not simply looking at the role of the president s conduct but also the financial dealings of some of the people in the white house or who were part of the campaign. All of those, i mean, any one of those is a significant investigation and you got all of that operating at the same time you may remember there was a thing called watergate and someone said follow the money. Well, i do remember a little bit about that. Follow the money it is. And following the money, there have long been questions about the role of money and russias money with Donald Trumps organization, and his financial empire. We dont know exactly what bob muellers team may be beginning to look at. Whether its that or whether its money involving some of the trump associates, but once you start down that trail, you dont know where its going to lead or where it will end. The one thing we do know from not just watergate but almost all of these investigations that begin with a specific subject, that they go in unexpected directions based on where the evidence leads and they can end up in unexpected places. So for the for president and the trump white house, that has to be worrying and i believe the president s reaction to it and the some of the things he said in his tweets today make it clear that he is very unhappy about it. Well, and you wonder, as you did about president clinton when he was facing impeachment hearings, and other legal difficulties, you wonder how you can focus on being president when your own skin is at risk. Well, one thing we know about the president is that, a, he has a relatively short attention span. He shown that throughout the course of the campaign, and through the first months of his presidency. And second, when he is under attack, he fights back and he fights back hard. And he certainly seems to regard this as a personal attack. And the reactions hes had both privately and publicly suggest that he is going to fight and fight hard. We saw that in the statement from his attorney last week based on director comeys testimony, weve seen it in the tweets from the president himself aimed at bob mueller and that investigation. So they seem to have decided on a strategy that they are going to go hard at the special counsel and his team as part of a strategy to in one way or another discredit whatever the findings may turn out to be. Do you expect when you talk to other reporters who Cover Congress that we will see legislation between now and the next election i think people expect there will be legislation. The senate is working hard. Though in private, to try to get a healthcare bill ready to have a vote relatively soon before perhaps the july 4th recess certainly before the august recess. Of they want and need to do that. They feel. But they have struggled to do that. They with all of the initiative, theyve passed legislation but it is not the big ticket or the priority items of either the republican majority or the president. So you know, the question is what will they be able to get through . How are they going to get a healthcare bill through . The bill will be certainly different from the house bill. We dont know whether it will be as different as was first thought. It seems to be going in a more moderate direction. Whether its moderate enough for the moderates or too moderate for the conservatives, we dont know until it comes out of the sealed chamber within which theyre working on at the same time, appears to me that theres a fight for the soul of the democratic party, which doesnt get much attention because all the attention is focused on the president and his troubles. There is a fight in some ways but i think, i think if you look at, lets take the most recent example or most recent laboratory case of this, which was the primary in virginia. The gubernatorial primary, in which ralph northam, the lieutenant govern had the support of in essence the democratic establishment, and Tom Perriello had the support of the Bernie SandersElizabeth Warren wing of the party. A, that turned out not to be a close election when a lot of people thought it might be and some polls suggested it would be. B, they seem to have come together relatively quickly. Again, well have to see how that plays out. But you know, there are divisions within the democratic party, charlie but i think that the divisions within the Republican Party again if you look at what happened in that virginia primary, the divisions in the republican primary Republican Party, excuse me, are more substantial and more threatening to them right now than the democrats. Thats not saying the democrats will take about the house in 2018. But i do think that what we are seeing is a certain amount of instability within the Republican Coalition which has been factor since, you know, since donald trump became the effective nominee, and they have tried to, in essence kind of pay for it over or smooth it over but its an Unstable Coalition that the president had a put together to become president and thats going to have repercussions in elections down the road dan balz its good to have you and i thank you so much from the Washington Post. Well be right back stay with us. Jeffrey goldberg is the editor and chief on the atlantic. The magazine celebrated its 160th anniversary. The stated that its political coverage will be the organ of no party or cleak. There have been perhaps no more remarkable times than we have now, the administration continues to struggle with controversy, the Washington Post report that day Robert Mueller widened the russian probe to examine whether President Trump attempted to obstruct justice, Jeffery Goldberg joins me now. I want to turn to last month. Remarkable story. Alex tiz an, philippino american writer. Lived with a shameful secret. His family brought with them family slaves. Inherited a slave. A strange indentured culture in their part of the philippines and the woman lived with the family, with the mother and then with alex. Alex. Prize winning writer inherited her. But she couldnt be freed. So the story which went incredibly viral. Millions have read this. The story is coming to grips with what his family did to this person, how he couldnt liberate her. He tried and his anxieties about it and heres the part in is takes to his whole strange and tragic level. Alex, it was written for us, filed his story to us, went through one round of edit,ing and just and we learned that he died. To in his sleep at night in his sleep eight night. We we actually, his editor, denise wills was trying to tell him that we chose the piece for the cover, and she didnt hear back from him and usually thats the kind of good news that people writers look to hear and we found out couple days after that that police have discovered him at home alone in bed dead. Of so we, through the remarkable administrations of his family, his wife, siblingses managed to finish the process of getting the piece into print. It was his last story, and he had an expression, great writer, and a great profiler of marginal people and he believed his wife told me this later, he believed that every person has within them an epic story, the most average person in the world has an epic story. He essentially disgorged himself of his own he want pick story and died. Its the stuff the literature. And its sad but im glad that next was my point, its not always about politics, its about o we are as human beings ill tell you this came out at a intense trump month, not that any is not trump intense but it came at a particularly intense moment. And it exploded when it came out and people i think people are looking for long well written stories about fascinating subject that is might have nothing to do with politics. Maybe particularly before were drowning in politics. I cant i dont know the theory of this, but something happened with this article. It was heartening obviously as the editor of a magazine that publishing long stories to see that millions and millions of people were spending a long time reading a very long story about nonfamous people, nonamericans in a lot of cases, and about an issue of huge social import and what humans can do what humans can do to other humans. My question is what happened to her . She lived with him to the end. He tried to liberate her. But she was that was the life that she knew. He began to pay her. She lived with his family, took care of them. Didnt ask her to do anything. But that was the nature of this situation. She eventually died of old age. And the story which i recommend people read, if they havent, is the story of him taking her ashes back to the philippines to her village for final burial, and its quite beautiful and touching and sad. Moving from that to what happened in washington this week. Also tragic and sad. People are asking this question they ask often after 911 and newtown, after so many events mass violence. Will this one be the time that we do something . No, no, no. No. Youve been there before heres the thing. There was an assumption on the part of i think theres an assumption on the part of president obama after sandy hook. After the massacre in elementary school, you know, all right. This is the one. This is, you know, like this is not chicago gang violence. This is this is tiny children, mostly white children, you know, in a suburb. An insane story. And this is the thing thats just going to were going to tip and then nothing. Nothing tipped. I think you said it was the hardest day of his life its the issue that the issue things like this probably frustrated him the most as president. He could not use, you know, what he was all about was the application of logic and rationality to a set of problems and he assumed that if the argument was sound enough and that if convincing enough. This is where he thought, ok, is this going to be it. This is no, this is it doesnt change. Remember, also, and heres the odd of this sad and tragic situation in virginia. The people targeted generally speaking are pretty fierce Second Amendment absolutist or near absolutist. Well, you know what im saying. Its not the targets in this case are not people who have previously been known to be apt to argue for greater gun control. One of them said in a very passionate conversation i wish a gun. I could have saved lives. That to me is an interesting and recognizable reaction. Theres a feeling of helplessness when somebody shooting at you and you cant shoot back and we know that if the Capitol Police werent there with their gun, it would have been a massacre. I understand that reaction entirely.