Good evening, ga glor filling in 230r charlie rose who is away today. We begin with politics with phil rucker, david frum and Julie Hirschfeld. There has been a lot of discussion about whether this is an accident or actually by design that they havent actually filled a lot of these really vital u7bd second tier positions under the cabinet level that are needed to make government go i honestly think its a combination of both but i think its more just a chronically late start and lack of planning. And a real sort of distaste for the kind of process oriented thinking that you have to do in order to figure out okay, who are the people we need in place. Who is the eightteam for this particular position or function and how do we get things going. And i dont think you can recover from that. Rose we conclude with the actress carrie coon of the leftovers and fargo. For any young actor you are never going to learn to act in the classroom. I think scru to be on the stage. I think the stage is a wonderful Training Ground for tv and film. Because you learn how to repeat a performance. And i think a lot of times young actors think of tv and film as that quick one off take that you get. And its true, you only have to do it well one time, really. But they neglect the fact that you might have to have a cath ar sis on screen and you have to do it 12 times which is very unnatural. Your body has had an experience then you have to stuff it back in and do it again. And i think you learn how to do that in the theater. Politics and carrie coon when we continue. Rose funding for charlie rose is provided by the following and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Good evening, im jeff glor, filling in for charlie rose who is away today. We begin the program with politics. On friday the Trump Administration announced it would discontinue Public Access to logs of visitors to the white house. Meanwhile protestors across the nation demanded the president release his tax returns ahead of tuesdays tax deadline. On the Foreign Policy front, tensions with north korea further escalated over the weekend and today in the wake of pyongyangs failed missile test on sunday. While visiting south korea Vice President pence warned the North Koreans not to test President Trump citing the attacks. Joining me david frum Senior Editor of the lant. And Philip RuckerWhite House Bureau chief at the washington post. Julie hirschfeld david who covers the white house for the New York Times will join us momentarily. David, let me start with you. The article is about europe. But i do want to start with asia since it is top of mind today and Vice President pences visit in particular. What is the administration e of the things that is really striking about the administrations mode of proceedings is it is usually the greater power that tries to deescalate the situation. The United Stateses had a posture with north korea of recognizing north korea is in it for the money. They are not really a strategic actor. And the more you increase the apparent value of their nuisance, the more they will try to charge to have the nuisance go away. And the United States does not have credible military options. Everybody knows that. The Trump Administration doesnt have much of an alliance structure. Remember it began the add p by blowing up the transpacific partnership, something that all of our friends in the pacific are deeply vested in. So its hard to see much of a plan other than scwinting and looking tough and promising to do things that your opponents know youre not going to do. Philip, where did the Administration Want this conversation to go right now . Well, they want to apply pressure on china. There is that sense within the white house that they would very much like to see china apply more pressure on north korea not only militarily but more importantly economically, try to pressure the north korean regime, try to deescalate with north korea. I think trump is feeling very good about the relationship that he built with president xi over the last the trip a couple of weeks ago. But really wants him, wants china to follow through on that and apply more pressure to north korea. Julie, if you are with us now, same question to you regarding north cor yavment i guess these are two separate questions. But where does the Administration Want this conversation to go and where do they think it can go . Well, i think you heard david talk about the k458 engs of actually making any substantive progress in the way that past administrations havent. I think President Trump really wants to show that he can do these sort of dealmaking Relationship Building things and the relationship with president xi, i think the white house sighs as one example of that. If they can get him to step forward and apply some pressure where china hasnt been willing to before, that would be a win. Obviously a peaceful solution to these mounting threats, and a show of Donald Trumps ability to kind of maneuver in a geo political sphere that we havent seen from him before. So i think its important for them, foreign hns policy wise, obviously but he also wants to show he is a strong president that can pull some of these things. Strijs. I think that is part of why we hear the white house talking and leading so hard on this idea of chienar stesmg up. And there is confidence from the white house that after a candidate was so critical of a country during the campaign, that the president now believes he has a relationship with president xi that can get something done. I think thats right. They feel like the relationship is very strong, that they think china will want to help the United States in terms of sort of further fostering that friendship and come to the table a little bit, in terms of applying pressure to north korea. There is another player here to think about as well, and thats japan. Obviously right there in the region. But shinzo ane abb, the Prime Minister of japan formed a relationship with trump, and the they are looking and would like to see china put more pressure on north korea and i think we are encouraged by what President Trump was doing elsewhere in the world with the bombing in syria and last week in afghanistan, saw him as a desiesessive leader willing to take action in a way president obama was not. So that encouraged the japanese. Can i file a mild protest against the discussion that were having. Glor this is where i was going to go with this. Let me see if this answers your question. As far as the warming of relationships, i think the white house believes that the president can very quickly establish these nice friendships with foreign leaders which may not have is that naive of them to think . Look, here is the protest i was going to file. I am not a White House Correspondent and i have to thal respect for the people who work that very challenging beat. But what happens if you cover the white house is you go to sean spicer or Michael Anton or any of the administrations designated talkers and you say, so how is is the relationship with china. And they say its fabulous it is a lot better than it was under that dope obama. Two problems, these guys dont know anything. And second, they lie all the time. It would be helpful, now thats not your beat. Glor dont pull any punches, david. If you say to the chinese or japanese, so how is the relationship, you might get a different answer. And they have, i suspect the chinese have a much more practicing mat pragmatic and instrumental view of their relationship with the Trump Administration. Remember they tried to do that 400 Million Dollar rescue of the Jared Kushners troubled interest in an Office Building in new york. Remember how they have given donald trump a lot of licenses in dhiena kleina a lot of copyrights trademarks i should say that he has been seeking for a decade without success. Notice the huge increase of purchases in goods branded to ivanka trump . . . China and the interest of i vnga trump inside china. They recognize these family dynastic, that is how much of china is governed. But the feeling that they have warm feelings towards donald trump, and they may flatter his view of himself as a strong leader, but one of the things strong leaders dont do is bluff. And what we have seen again and again in syria, in afghanistan and now most ominously in north korea is a policy based on bluff. Glor we saw that some would say with the Health Care Debate dommestically as well. Or at least pushing it to where it got. But david, we should, you cant discount the notion that the healthy intrapersonal relationship can certainly help get something done. I totally discouldnt it and reject it the way you and i and most of us go through life is we like people, and therefore we get along with them. The way it works between world lead ares is they decide that they need to get along, and then they develop the relationship. The relationship does not lead the analysis of interests. The relationship follows. And if you dont understand that, then your feelings are going to be manipulated which is something that does seem to happen to donald trump from tiement to time. China and japan have very interspace Foreign Policy, salute them for, that so dot koreans. And they have a lot at stake, the risk of a terrible war in their immediate neighborhood. And they are a lot more concerned about getting things done than how they are perceived by in the chinese case, state controlled med yarks by japan and south korea, in media that are less vested in the president s personal narrative, than this president , this white house and to some extent our media are. Glor so where does this visit go and where does where does the conversation go. Where does the pence i think there will be a lot of scwinting and a lot of jawed looks across the dmz, a lot of Leather Jacket pictures. There is an Aircraft Carrier in the region it will steam in. It wont do much and it will eventually steam out. And two weeks from now, i think this problem will look very similar to the way the problem looks today. Because donald trump doesnt have any more levers over china than president obama or president bush does or did. But what it has done is signaled that this deal is much more important to him than it was to president obama or president bush. And as the ghost writer of the art of the deal could have told him, that when you look like you want something very badly, you have to pay more for it. Glor julie, is the does the administration right now, not withstanding some of davids thoughts on this with all due respect, are they confident that the way this, the north korea conversation is going right now is one they want to hear . Well, no, i dont think they are. I think theres a lot of anxiety behind the scenes about how this all plays it self out. And of course they are developing all of their options and you know, we hear a lot of, as david said, tough talk about you know, the era of strategic patients being over and were ready to move it to the next phase here. But the fact is, if they are not able to get china to step up and even potentially if they are able to show persuade china to do something it hasnt been willing to do in the past and apply more economic pressure to north korea, its not clear what their end game is going to be. They keep on, we heard the National Security advisor talk over the weekend about we want to resolve this peacefully. We want to do this in a way that doesnt involve the military. If you look at their statements and look at what is happening on the ground, its not clear how they can do that it i dont think they have a clear sense of that right now. Lets not forget as well that part of the play on putting pressure on china, i mean it is the fact that you know, this administration hasnt really gotten much out of china. They talk a lot about this warm relationship. Theyre really goo friends now. They have their chocolate cake but we havent actually seen any of the fruits of that. And so it remains to be seen. And i think some people inside the white house acknowledge this that it it remains to be seen how much can really come of this, you know, outwardly looking better rapport. Glor philip, to you, before we butt unop north korea, where do you think this goes next . I dont know. I think julie, hit it exactly right. Theres not a clear end point here inside the white house. There is much more anxiety behind the scenes than you see publicly in their comments and their rhetoric. But i dont think they have figured out where this all goes. Clearly they want china to step up and theyre trying to kind of take this day by day but there doesnt seem to be a grand strategy that lays out what will happen three months from now, six months from now, a year from now. Glor all right, well, david, i think cites one sort of grand strategy in the atlantic this month. So david we can move on to that now and talk about europe. The article is called trumps plan to end europe. Why . Well, one of the things that we notice both candidate trump and the first weeks of the trurch presidency was their extraordinary hostility to the European Union. And this manifested it self in the negative comments about nato before the election, the encouragement to great britan to exit the European Union which reverses american Foreign Policy going back to the Ford Administration and even before, and generally their hostility to the institution. Some of this is just ignorance that when President Trump says to Angela Merkel we would like to negotiate a trade trettee with germany, i think he sincerely did not know that that is a thing that they have moved to the eu level that you no longer can negotiate a trade treaty with germany. But some of it does seem to be, and many of the people around the administration, trade advisors like peter and a half aro do seem to see germany in particular which is a major exporter as an economic competitor like china. They discount the value of the other important things in our relationship. And they are hostile to it the European Union, want to weaken it and break it up. You see that in the flirtation with people like niej el forage and maureen la pen the leader of the National Front that wants to break up the krnsee and maybe lead france out of the European Union all together it is very ominous and it is especially ominous when you remember that the highest priority of russian Foreign Policy is is to selfer the tie between the United States and germany and to crack up the European Union. Because europe together is much stronger than russia. Russia is a gdp about the size of italy. Europe separate, no country is near as strong as russia. Glor but as you said we have certainly seen some remarkable revolutions from the president , in just the past few days on multiple issues. So should we not expect there might be one on europe then as well, david . Well, to my em barment one of the revolutions happened on the very day that the article was released. That was the day that donald trump said i have changed my mind and nato is no longer obsolete t was dead and now its not dead any more. So yes, im sure hes very mer cur yal and impulsive. He has got thin attachments to things. But there is certain harms that once done cant be undone. And remember back in 2013, and 11 when we were talking about the United States defaulting on its obligations, when you take the possibility Something Like that from zero to not zero, that is an irrevocable event and when you take the idea that the dwreunt United States might not honor its nato agreement from zero to unzero, that is something you cannot unsay, and we now are, while the administration is projecting less hoss ility to the union as an institution, the animus is still pretty visible and the people around him have their animuses and when you look at the relationships they choose to have, the fact that people like niejel forage got a warmer treatment than Angela Merkel does, people in europe notice that. And the most dangerous thing that happens is they then begin thinking we need a plan for our security, premise on United States is no longer a reliable partner and gawrn tor. Glor is it possible that those that show that same animus that would rather pete with forage than merck rell being pushed to the side in whatever way in this white house now . One of them is in the oval office. And he is there for the duration. Glor where is steve bannon right now . Well, unlike the saturday night live portrayal, steve bannon is at work. He still has his job. He remains the chief strategist althoug