And by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Rose bono is here. This year marks the 40th anniversary of the legendary rock band u2. The group has sold more than 157 million records, it has won 22 grammies. Bono is also no for his rock star status and for his philanthropic work around the globe. Celebrating its tenth anniversary. Over the weekend red a hundred Million Dollar commitment to fight aids, ter burkeless and malaria. In april he visited with refugees in kenya, jordan and turkey. Hes in new york for the United NationsGeneral Assembly and im very belizeed to have him back at this table. Welcome. You are a traveling man. I travel rat, thats it. I joined up with that when i joined a rock and roll band at 18. Rose with a couple friends. Tell me about nice and how close that was. When you talk about these things, its easy to forget that your drama is just such a tiny charred of the dramas that were going on around you. Yes, we were there, it was bastilled night and we were working at the fireworks, we left the fireworks and came back to the table. And realized something was wrong when the car reversed down a one way street it was taken away and a stampede of tables and chairs thrown over where. This woman and her son huddled back to a window under tables. And we brought this woman and her son. Everything about it was, he was calming her down. He was like a ten year old saying mama, mama its okay, she was having a panic attack. We werent because growing up in ireland its probably just a fireworks to spook people. But of course we were thinking, and you know you have these awful thoughts. You look at a blunt knife and you think is there a gunman coming through, that kind of thing. The french did it right. Face down, made sure everyone was safe and im very grateful for that. Ive tried to paid respect to the families. Thats about really all that matters. Rose you were right about that. People were concerned about you because of what happened to so many innocent souls. Yes. Its the second time in transfor us. We were in paris at the night, we were rehearsing a mile away. When all that went off. Its like this keeps happening. Rose that was to be the final venue for the tower. Yes, yes. We went back, though, two weeks later and the band that had been through the ordeal, we brought them on at the end of the show. The thing about these groups, these terrorist groups is they live in a gray zone where people get on, they are in the gray zone where people mingle. They want to divide us. I thought when we went back, it wasnt about the melody, it was about harmony, thats what i felt. I felt it was like, it wasnt about our song, it was about the crowds singing sort of thing. You know, its powerful rock and roll, you know, as an act of defiance. Rose indeed it is. Thats the first thing i think about when i think of rock and roll in part is defiance. Theres nothing more romantic in the world than defienls. Its kind of the essence of romance and joy is the ultimate act of defiance. You think of music, the beatles whether its motes art or bethoven. We can cry into the beer. Im attracted to what u2 has formed on that idea of pure joy as an act of defiance. Rose but the music continues. Yes. The music gives me the currency. The music given me the life given us the life. Music is wrapped around social justice which is where you and i met in the fight against extreme poverty. Thats how i got in the door. People were expecting that i wouldnt leave. When i would be up in capitol hill here or any capital, people would take the meeting to have a look at this exotic creature or whatever it is, rock and roll person. But then you know i didnt leave. Rose all the passion you have for social activism, is in they way does it diminish the music. Well you know, it has been some pride for the band what weve done but its also, i know ive embarrassed them a lot. Theres people i meet they wouldnt want me to meet. I remember bringing jesse helms to the show. Edge was very upset about that. As regards time, its odd because for me, i see all the stuff i do as the same thing, you know. They might see it as multipersonallity dis order, but i see melodies and ideas as being the same thing. Even little businesses, you know, start ups, theyre like melody lines to me. A great melody and a great idea have a lot in common. Theres something unique, present. Theres this sort of an arc, sort of the beautiful arc and a certain inevitability. You feel you know where its going though youve never seen one before. I feel like that about a song. I feel like that about the one campaign, you know, all red or anything i to. Rose but do you feel because of the accident in the park, because the guitars not there. Some would say it was never there. Rose you wouldnt say that and your band wouldnt say that. They would,8 person. I know part of that. Rose you went back in the last album songs innocence and it was about your mother. It was back about dublin. It was about the musical influences. There is a sense that you both go forward and then you come back. Maybe to go back. Maybe thats what that was about. U2, i never listen to our music, the band doesnt, were always thinking about where were going. But the last time i decided i need to know why am i like this. Where does this come from. What is this rage that i still cant seem to shake, you know. Rose why am i know band. Why am i, all those kind of questions. I got to the very ordinary situation that lots of people probably have had where they go oh my god, mother died at 14 but its like the way i got over it was of course, you know, i went for music, i lost high mysef in music and i became part of the crowd and that was the love i was missing in my life, living in a handsome north side of dublin with two men that i was fighting with and thats where the music came. The al chemy. Thats it. Rose you once said if im close to music and youre close to music then were close to each other. Yeah. Music is the language of the spirit, as a jazz man, youre pretty musical the way you move around the table with words. But actually its when we shut up that is another kind of talking goes on. Our Spiritual Life or whatever you want to call it. So music i think connects us with our spirit, our Spiritual Life. And i think all music is worship actually. And its not god, if you dont believe in god, it could be anything, it could be woman. It can be a lot of bad things but its always worship. Rose you just had a hugely successful tour. Rose beyond the money, beyond promoting t album as it does, does it speak to you in terms of how the audience sees the songs . Do you get feedback from them about the lyrics. Yes, its very passionate. Rose something going on there. We fight with our audience. Its like aggressive, a lovers quarrel. I would not just stumble, i would leap into the audience. There was a concert in the 80s, i remember, i was in my early 20s and i went into the audience with a whete flag. Rose i remember that, yes. It was in the los angeles time big review, the most stupid thing, most irspend thing ever seen. I went into the crowd with a white flag. It was making this whole nonviolent protest and they were im in all of that. But that relationship with an audience is everything to this. It works on our albums, the recordings are good. Weve done some good stuff but its great, because its live. Its present, its different. It changes. Even if youre not improvising sometimes we are and sometimes we arent always different. They do change, you were right. See audiences changes every night because you pick up their feelings. A song can mean Something Different in paris than in new york. It just means Something Different. Rose you like rehearsals. No. Were not good at rehearsals. They dont know im here. I cant connect. Getting into these songs for me is commitment. In the morning i feel a little ill, a little bit nauseous, i know whats coming. I have to step inside the songs. Its going great, the songs are singing you and its just a transcendent thing. That doesnt happen all the time. Its a deep fear that youre going to be singing them. Were rehearsing, its like whats the point. Rose writing. Is it hard for you to write a song . No. Ive been writing melodies since i was a kid. Since the piano keys were taller than my head. So i remember and i didnt know how to play but i remember putting my foot on the pedal and finding out where the reverb was and making a sound, a note and finding another note that felt good with it as a child. So i have that. Rose its just talent. I guess it is and one shouldnt be arrogant. Its like inherited wealth. Being talented. I say this to beautiful girls too. I say be humble. You didnt work for this. This is like gifts. Were all given these gifts. To have such beauty and talent. Rose but take songs of experience. How many have you written. 16 songs on the cooker. We have to boil it down to 10 or 12. I rather it be 10 but it will probably beer 12. Rose whats it about. Whats the question youre asking this time . Well, im not sure i should say this but theres a great poet, we were discussing shamous heany. The last poem called tight for adine which is i think about a premonition. Another poet advised me once, he said to write as if youre dead. He said that. To do that is to be free of ego, to be free. Go. Rose please nobody but yourself. So ive taken that position and its, ive written some very very personal songs to people, to my kids or our kids, to friends, to ali, to our audience. Then i caught myself writing to myself. I didnt know it was me. I said whats this one about. One called the Little Things that give you away. Oh god who thought about that one. Me. Rose theres one called the morning after innocence. Yes. Thats kind of the theme of it. Thats odd. I told you about that and i shouldnt have. And that song, the morning after which i shouldnt give it away but i just told you. Rose it against i was living a lie and calling it compromise. Isnt that right. Right. Rose thats personal. What was the compromise . I sometimes think that the younger me, it was very black and white. A bit judgmental. To be honest. But write a lot. Rose as in correct. Well yeah. But you know, might look at me now and be disappointed. Ive written a couple of songs from that point of view. Although i feel like ive had the freedom as a person as well as a writer that i didnt have as a younger man. Rose we talked about terrorism earlier and how its all around us. Its in paris and its in the United States and its in brussels and its everywhere. Theres also Politics Today that some people are worried about forms of populism. They worry about it in france. They worry bit here. When you look at donald trump and his tenancy and you have said wonderful things about america you said america is more than a nation, its an idea. Does trump come to you as somebody whose a change agent because people are so unhappy about status quo or does he come to you as Something Else . Look, america is like the best idea the world ever came up with. But donald trump is potentially the worst idea that ever happened to america. Potentially. It could destroy us. Because what were saying, because americas not just a country. Ireland and all the rest. America is an idea and that idea is about justice and equality for all. Equality and justice for all, you know. And this, you know, i think of lazarus, those lines, give me your tired, your poor, your hddled masses yearning to breathe free. This is america. This is not from Donald Trumps play book. Look, i have spent 20 years, nearly 20 years now fiercely bipartisan and im going to stay that way. I have enormous respect for the party of Abraham Lincoln to move the greatest workers and the one Campaign Come from conservative tradition. Republicans are very Close Friends of mine. I dont think hes a republican. I think he hijacked and the party and i think hes trying to hijack the idea of america. And i think its bigger than all of this. I think its, this is really dangerous. And i think you know cannot, wise people of conscious should not let this man turn this country into a casino. Rose why do you think this race is about evil running against a woman who has been secretary of state as United States senator first lady of the United States. And a race is about evil. I would not diminish Trump Supporters or under estimate their angst. Because i feel that in a way, they have correctly assessed that the center parties havent yet become clear. Rose their angst is real and genuine, a sense that i worry about. We really want this kind of person in the oval office. This is a sacred office. This is an in credible country. By the way, the people will wake up out of this dream. They shouldnt make a protest with him. Rose some will argue and i know her well and respect her greatly, that part of the issue of his rise has to do in part with her, that she is not a popular candidate and so people want to see change and they dont think theyll get change with her. So theyre prepared to take a chance with him. Its a huge risk. Because hes not a pop starer show man or show woman because hes not simplistic. Rose i dont think its the heart of shes not something. Ive talked to them about this last week and they recognize it. Theres this issue of trust. Im just saying that is part of thats so mad. Of all the mad things, think about it. Just on a pure psychological profile, the woman is almost pernickity. We walk into the state department, she is like all over us. She is, its tough love with her and shes very proper. Its so mad that people would think that theres something. But i dont want to be on your show talking and you know, dont tell people how to vote. Rose but you are alarm by donald trump. I am ready and to speak in a way i havent spoken for 20 years. And im not rose this is not comfortable for you but youre doing it because what. Because i feel like this country is in real danger. This is really a dangerous. Theres climate change. Theres Nuclear Weapon proliferation, you know, theres terrorism. Theres all kinds of stuff. Actually the biggest danger is right here, might be right here. And its fear of the other. Im irish. He talks about illegal aliens. Its the spotted pig. Half the irish people in there probably stayed too long or whatever it is. Its not the level of mexican, mexican people are some of the Extraordinary People youll ever meet in your life. They are working doing incredible jobs some very sophisticated, some of jobs that americans dont want them to do. But im irish, im very offended. They were refugees. Economic refugees. We got off thet here smelling and we were rough and you know no blacks and irish. We know this story. Weve made a contribution to america. I think most americans will agree the irish are part of your story. Rose the countrys been built on immigrants. The country is built on this principle, for those who need it most surely. Rose are you campaign, will you get involved. No, i cant do that. I really cant do that but i just feel like stand up and be counted in some kind of luminous way and ill figure out a way. Rose let me talk about 10th anniversary and a couple philanthropy things but also a new push to electrify africa which i think as good idea. Its really interesting. I was thinking about you and i and i remember you coming to sit at this table talking about debt forgiveness. Thats at this table. Rose thats true. Came here selling the idea of debt forgiveness. When was that. This was a long time ago. That could be 16 years ago. Rose weve got countries in africa that cant get on with their development because they have an overwhelming debt and the only way to telewith del with it is to find a way to deal with it so they can use those resources. Laser by the way and 46 million africans going to school because thats where that money that was saved was spent. Isnt that incredible. Rose its unbelievable. What is electrify. Going on, i think now the whole narrative about development has changed. Its changed because the worlds getting excited because the continent. By 2050, it will be twice the population of china. It will be a third, i think a third of the world youth. It will be african. Can you imagine. Rose every country culture to music. So i think people are saying well how can we be part of this rising africa narrative. And so president obama has been really keen on partnering with, you know, bringing power to africa. Mark zuckerberg is trying to bring the rose internet. To africa. Theres a lot of people. And i think actually theres about to emerge a new security and development narrative. Started in africa but partnered in europe and in america thats going to change the game with regards to africa, certainly north africa into the middle east. With the refugee crises people are looking can we go to source here. What can we do here. Because theres a phenomena, the three extremes you could call them. Right along there, you have extreme poverty, extreme climate and extreme ideology. And this unholy trinity is where all the problems are. If you go to from northern mali Northern Nigeria across sudan all wait to somalia, you could argue goes all wait to afghanistan, people screening to make a living, hard hard life. We need to understand this. We need to be there. And African Leaders are, the president of nigeria, entrepreneurs of africa saying we have to deal with this. In north nigeria ive just been to borneo in Northern Nigeria, there are two Million People displaced there. Boko haram is there. They cant return to the home group. Two Million People displaced in Northern Nigeria. The stated objective of boko haram is the destabilization of nigeria which is a gray zone. One thought in your head. Thats ten times the population of syria. If nigeria rose the risk is ten times the population of syria. If you see what syria did to europe, the refugee crises probably resulted in brexit. Nigeria is two Million People. In nigeria fails, africa fails. If africa fails, europe fails and if europe fails a