Transcripts For KQED Charlie Rose 20161227

And by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Arnold palm certificate with us for this hour. He is a legend who came out of the hills of pennsylvania with his fathers hard driving lessons deep in his soul. He had the strength of a linebacker and the magazine tism of a movie star. All of that and he could hit a golf ball a mile and then roll it into a small hole with the touch of a master. He won four masters, one u. S. Open, two british opens and 62 pga tour events but never, never the pga, although he came close coming in second three times. He was once chosen athlete of the decade, not just in his sport, in all sports. Golf has never been the same. It is bigger, better and more popular in every dimension. He changed the game. Every one that followed is indebted to him. No one has had an army like arnies army. No one has been so courtedded by president s from eisenhower to obama. No one has had so much respect from his peers. He and Jack Nicholas defined great rivalry like Magic Johnson and larry bird, like john mcenroe and bjorn boring, like the red sox and yankees, like duke in north carolina. When jack kennedy was in power. Arnold palmer was winning everything. He was the best, so good that the president wanted arnie to look at his swing and come play a round. Arnold palmer is a pilot and hugely successful businessman. He and the late macmckorm ak showed us what endorsements were all about. He was most of all a competitor and a gentleman. And he still is as he approaches his 82nd 82nd birthday. We visited his home in pennsylvania. He still live there and also in florida with his second wife during the winter. Right across from the golf course his father helped build. Nearby is an office with enough awards to fill a museum. We began with a tour of so many memories. And then a conversation about so many experiences. This is a Norman Rockwell. Well, i will tell you a little more about that, with this, it was done a number of years ago. Yeah. Is obviously. When i first saw it you said do i recognize this guy. Well, i wasnt, you know, sure everybody would recognize who it was. Rose Norman Rockwell painted your picture. Yep. Rose not bad, not bad. This is a number of times. Rose that is you and sam. Yep. We played in the world cup a couple of times together. And we won both times we played. Rose you and jack . Yep, same thing. Rose a unique concept of gulf, first of a five part series. Sportsman of the year. Sports illustrated. Yeah. Rose here is. Billy kasper. Thats one we talk about every once in a while. Rose it is the toughest one to win or the masters . Well, you won more masters. Of course i hung out at the masters. That was sort of pie i loved it. Rose that is your favorite. It had to be. Rose you cant ignore the open. Its still. Rose because st of america. Thats one, thats it. Rose the american championship. Right. Rose here, this is when you turned 40. This was 40 years ago. Yep. Rose 40 years ago. See how much you have changed. This is you and the famous winnie. Yep. Rose again, thats that 1967. There are you. Lets look at that swing. Out of the water. Rose yeah. There is you and jack and gary. Yep. Rose u. S. Open. You and jack again. Golf kings must be selfish. Do you think you have to be selfish . Well, i dont think so. I done think he is selfish and i dont think i am. Rose and what is this . Those are my buddies. That is the blue angels. Rose tell me about flying for you. Oh, i love it. Rose a second passion. Yeah. You know, i started by being scared. When i was an amateur i played a couple tournaments and i had to fly and got into weather and stuff and it scared me. And i decided that will not work. I had to learn to fly. I had to find out what airplanes andary nautical engineering and what it was all about. Rose you stopped flying now. Just. I still have my license and the only thing that keeps me from flying is going through recurrent training which i havent done. If i wanted to fly again i would have to go back. Rose your license lapses if you dont go back. Well, in the airplane im flying. Rose did you fly all those famous jets you had, the citation ten and the other jets. I am going to show them to you before we finish this tour. Rose so this is your office. Yes, sir. Rose pictures of family. Family, everything. Rose does your dad speak. Yeah. His given name was deacon. Milford jerome. Now you know why he is called deek. Rose exactly there is the guy. Yep. And he was he was a great guy, he was a strong dude. And not a real big guy but very strong. Rose but the time after the amateur and by the time you began to be who you were and are, he fully appreciated it. It was great. He was great. This is my first tournament, the canadian open. Rose that was in what, what year . 1955. Rose three years when i started really killing it. And then im now as you know approaching 82. And i have never shot four rounds in an official tournament lower than that. Rose 265 for four rounds. Right. Rose wow. 64, 67, 64, 70. Pretty good. Do you think if you were today playing today and back with the same age and skill that played in 5862. So when you won the most major tournaments, when you won all your major grand slams, if you were playing today, would you be number one . I cant answer that. Rose but if you had the will to win . Clubs are different . You would be stronger. You would like to give it a shot, wouldnt you. Yours damn right, i would like to give it a go. Well, wake forest. Have i spoken twice at commencement there. Rose yeah. That say picture of the school in winston salem. Kettle beach which im a partner in. Thats the hole i drove to cherry holes. Rose when you actually reach that green, you were so infused by the fact of what had been said to you. Yeah. The determination and the things that we talked about, they were. Rose first and fore most in your mind. Everybody believed that if you had wanted to be you could have been governor of pennsylvania. Did you think about it . Well, i had no choice. You know, people pushed, pushed for me, tom ridge is one of my good friends. Rose the future governor. Yep. And so that was something that i wasnt a politician. Rose did you but you are also an american, and a citizen. I love it. I loved it. Rose but you just didnt want to do it. I didnt want to spend i wanted to play golf. Rose and you dont have to be in politics to make a contribution to the country. These are all commencements i speak at. And various universities around the country. This is one that i just got last summer, that im very pleased about. Its st. Andrews. Rose oh, indeed. My degree from st. Andrews. Well, come on, well show you some more. Rose great. So tell me what i am going to see here, because this is legendary where you come down here and hide and. Thats it i love it. I come in here to work on golf clubs. And a lot of people say i destroy more than a build. Rose are you convinced that what you do in here to a club fits it better to your swing. I always said that if i had the perfect club, i should play the perfect game. Thats what i tried to achieve here. Rose and you would grind and you build and you get the parts sent in to you. Can i do anything. I put them together. Take them apart. Most people say i am very good at taking them apart. Rose what kind of club do you play with today. Kalaway. Kal away. Rose of course you do. Yes, sir. Rose can we talk to you a moment about president eisenhower. Uhhuh. Rose your 37th birthday. Uhhuh. Rose he shows up at the front door of your house. Yes, sir. Rose hes come with his wife to pay tribute to your birthday. This was the president you had the deepest relationship with . Oh, yes. I played golf with him the day after i won the masters in 1958 at his request. We became ever lasting friends. I was with him a day before he died at walter reed. And thats very familiar because they are closing walter reed. We just became very close friends. And even we played golf together. We played hard exhibitions. We did all that kind of stuff. And then when the doctor told him that he really should not play golf any more, so he used to call. He would spend his winters in palm springs. And he would call me and he would say arnie, what are you doing. I said well im going to go play golf, i think. He said oh, he says if you get time, stop at the house and well have a beer. Well, i wouldnt play golf. I would go over and sit with him and wed just talk about golf and business and military and the whole thing, country. Rose you have passion for that, that is what made it possible lar. You can say that in spades. Rose then there was jfk. Uhhuh. Rose who also sought you out. Yeah. Rose i want to you look at his swing. Right. Rose because he was a guy who loved winners. He was a good golfer. Rose when you saw his swing you said, you know, he is supposed to have played better and had a more fluid swing than any of his president s. Right. Rose and you said that you could have worked with him. That never happened. Rose what didnt happen. Well, actually, i was on my way to palm beach to play. Rose this was 63. Early. Rose was it 63ee . Well, it was yes, it was, 63y. Rose he died in november of 63y. And we were going to play some golf and the white house called me and said arnie, forget it. And i said why. I want to go do it and they said well, he hurt his back and hes going to take some time off. I dont think hes going to pay golf for awhile. That was the end of it. Rose so this is the famous shop. This is the shop. Im going to show you. Rose a place Arnold Palmer esquire makes them and breaks them, handles anything, no house calls. Yeah, were going to go right here. Back to the right now. Rose all right. Youve always had a very Good Relationship with the press. I enjoy the press. I understand their business. Rose right. And doc has helped me with that. But the guys from the press are guys that, you know, i could get with. I could talk to them. Part of what made the arnie armey so famous was that there was a sense that you were this guy who could, you know, play to win. But there was a sense that you were of them. Buddies. Yeah. Rose they were buddies. We have a beer together. Rose oh my god. These are big time medals. This is the president ial medal of freedom, United States of america. Rose that is the highest award that the United States can give to a civilian. Right. This is the one from portugal. Highest civilian award. I build a golf course there and the president and i became friends. This belt is the hicock belt. And in 1960 i won that for the professional athlete of the year. Rose you also won it for the professional athlete of the decade. Yes, sir, yes, sir. Thats what this relates to. Rose this is a picture, it looks like president bush. Right. Rose that is a great honor. Yes, it is. Rose what is this . That is the national amateur. Rose so that is the 54y. Yep. Rose that stands pretty high up. Oh, thats major. Go over here, well wind it up. This is charlie, this is my president ial corner. This is the things that happened with my various president s that i have associated with and spent some time with. Rose just talk about them. Over there is richard nixon. Did he play golf. Yeah, he did, yeah. Jz and gerald ford here. Right. Rose good athlete. And he was a great guy. Rose loved golf. You can tell by the laugh. This is a conference and nixon called of all his friends to talk about how to negotiate the war. And. Rose you were considered among a friend. Kissinger, the whole crowd. Rose to negotiate the end of the vietnam war. Yeah. Rose wow. This is george bush 41. Hes a great guy. He played a bunch of golf. Very, yeah. Rose here is ronald reagan. These are Like White House dinners. Rose here again with the bushes. Here again who is the lady in white . She happens to be the queen. Here we go with various ryder cup, open championship. Rose tell us about the ryder cup. Well, it is a Great International competition. Rose more enthusiasm for it than. Well, we hope so. I have always been a big thinker that the more, Even National competition we can create through sports, the better relationships will have with countries. Rose the more Common Ground we can find, the better off were going to be when push cometo shove. Thats right,s that the the name of the game. Rose here are you with bill clinton. Clinton here, clinton here. Now he loves golf. He is a great guy. Whatever you. Rose what is his golf. Well, the ball just didnt have a zip code on it. Rose he was driving the ball t wasnt necessarily the same zip code. Thats right. This is a letter he and i were playing golf one day and when you see the date its 65. I can read it . Sure. Its dde which is dwight david eisenhower, gettiesburg. August 14th, 1965, dear arnie, enclosed is payment for my debt. Never was there one more reluctantly paid. Also a tamped is a picture 69 philadelphia enquirer, it indicates deject, please remember that a couple of accidents will not be important a year from now. You will win a lot more tournaments and forget all the roads closed by bridges, locks and complaints about a tree. Love to win, keep hitting them, all the best, keep hitting dde. Very nice and here is 150. The bet was what . The bet was, he bet me i would win the pga championship this year. And i didnt. Rose hell of a life. A lot in it. It was full. Rose its an honor to be here. Well, thank you, its an honor to have you here, charlie. Rose thank you. You once said this about golf it is deceptively simple, endlessly complicated, a child can play it well and a grown man can never master it. Any single round of it is full of unexpected triumphs and perfect shots that end in disaster it is almost a science yet it is a puzzle without an answer it is gratifying and tantalizing. Precise and unpredictable. It requires complete concentration and total relaxation. It satisfies the soul and frustrates the intellect it is at the same time rewarding and maddening. And it is without doubt the greatest game man kind has ever invented. Thats well said. Well, thank you. Thank you much, that was a long time ago. Rose when did you fall in love with this game . Well, charlie, i have to start at the beginning, i guess. And its right here about 200 yards from where we are sitting. My father started on this golf course at latroaf when he was 16 years old. And he was digging ditches and they were building the golf course. So i was raised right here. Rose you were raised with golf. Thats right. I was raised with him. I played cowboys and indians in the trees. And when i started hitting the golf ball with some clubs that he sawed off. And i was raised with him, really, with my father. Rose did he once tell you hit it as hard as you can and you can work on accuracy later . He did. He said hit it hard, boy, and go find it and hit it again. Rose served you well, didnt it . Well, it did, yes. He was a very tough guy, charlie. He was i was the first son and first child and when my sister came along, well, she was two years younger. And i had to go to the golf course because my mother couldnt handle the whole, all the action going on. So so i came from about the time i was a year and a half old with him to the golf kowrgs and i spent the day with him here. And it just worked in naturally. And it was fun, for me being with my father. And doing the things that were, for a kid to do were just great. Rose and what part of your game today do you look back and say that was because of deek. Every part. Rose really. The whole part, everything. My manners, my, the things, my being was him. I wanted to emulate him. I wanted to be as stuff as he was. I wanted to do the things that he did. He i watched him. And we had some guys that worked on the golf course in those days. This was, when i was born in 29, as you know, that was depression. Rose yeah so the golf course was manned by my father and two guys. They worked with my dad. And they took me with him everywhere they went. And it was fun. And of course pat was a guy that, he had infantile paralysis when he was born, the year after he was born. And so his upper body was very strong. He chinned himself with a straight bar and he could do either arm 10 to 15 times. And he did it every day. And he just through here and his upper body was very, very strong. And i did that too. Many people who have gone on to find the kind of fame and fortune you do dont come back to their hometown but you did and do you and will you till the day you die. Youre right and i will. I lev it. I think you said Something Like this. Your hometown is not where you are from, st who you are. So you think of your father is here, golf was here, the things that molded you. When did you know that you could play this game well . Well, of course that was another thing about my father. That he never let me feel like i was i knew everything or anything. Erode hard and he made me feel very quon shus of the fact that i wasnt very good. And that i had to prove to him that i was good. And that hung with me. I have always wanted to pay golf with him and show him. And he said just dont ever. And he looked at me just like im looking at you. Dont ever tell people how good you are. Show them. Rose every young man wants to prove himself. Every young man wants to say to dad, i did okay, you know. Dont you think . I never dared. When i won the amateur he came from here to detroit to watch me play the final round. And i really barely won. I scraped it out and i beat a guy by the name of bob sweenie. And i was national an actual champion which was one of the i was 24 years old. And my father was there. And i couldnt wait to see him and my mother. And i went up and i was waiting for all the accolades and my mother, of course, was very teary. And my dad looked at me. He says well, boy, you did good. That was it. You have said after that that was the most, the greatest triumph in your life in a sense. It was one that was most important to me. Rose moses important to you because that is when you got your dads approval. Why wake forest . Well, again my father, he you get tired of hearing about my father. Rose no, it defines who you are. I worked for him on the grounds and i was in high school. And i said you know, i wanted to go to college. And he said well, he says you figure it out. He says ill pay for your college but he says youre going to go to st. Vincent. St. Vincent college right here. He says that is about as much as can i afford. He says you work here and you pay for your school, that will be it, right here at home. And i said what if about if i can get somewhere else. He says if you get there its your call. So i played golf, played high school golf, played amateur 2k3w068. And i got a lot of offers. The offers started coming in, because i was playing pretty good. I won amateur tournaments as a junior and the whole thing. And i was playing in the National Junior in los angeles with a buddy much mine who was from washington d. C. , his name was marvin bud woresham. And his brother was lou, the proat automatic lawn and won the open in 47y. That was the year we graduated. And we were out there playing in the junior. He says arnie, where are you going to go to college. And i said well, im looking at a couple. I said i have had some feelers from penn state and pit and one from miami. And i like the miami because can i play golf all winter. And he said hey, he says if i could get you a scholarship, would you go with me. I said where are you going . He said im going to go to wake forest. I said where is that. He says its in north carolina. I said oh my, you play golf all year. So he said if i contact them and they give you a scholarship, will you go. I said you bet. So he called the Athletic Director was a guy by the name of jim weaver. Did you ever hear that name. Rose yes, indeed. You should because he is the guy who founded the atlantic coach conference. Rose exactly right. And i grew up, as you know, some 30 miles from wake forest. Henderson. Rose indeed. Well, jim weeks i had no idea who it was. I didnt even know where wake forest was. But i came home from that tournament, went to play another one and came home and got on a bus and went on bus to wake forest. And i will never forget it and jim weaver became one of the best friends i had ever had. He was the Athletic Director, golf coach and did the whole thing. And that is how i ended up at wake. Rose were you there, bud was there and jim flick, was he not . Oh yes. Jim is a good friend of mine today. Rose so he is a great golfer. He and i roomed together after the accident, bud got killed in an Automobile Accident our senior year and my roommate then became jim flick. The death of bud had a big impact on you. Terrible. Z. He was like a brother. He we did everything. We played golf against each other. We did everything you could do together. And when he got killed, it was me. It was about as bad as it could get. And i finished the semester and i couldnt stand it so i decided that i had to do somethingest. And get my mind cleared up. And so i joined the coast guard. And i spent three years in the coast guard after that. Rose so you come out of the coast guard. And are you ready to be a golfer. Yeah. The coast guard, what if did for me in three years was as much as wake forest did for me as a school. It matured me. It allowed me to grow up. And when i went back to wake after the for my final year, i knew then that things were better. Meaning i felt like i could handle myself. Rose more mature. Exactly. And i enjoyed it and then i went back, after school, my senior year, i went back to cleveland. And took a job there and worked there for the summer. And thats when things started happening, the amateur and so on. Rose what was it about the charge that so electrified people and made them feel like that you connected to them more than anyone else . I am not sure i can answer that. Can i tell you that the thing that i was scared i was going to lose. And i didnt want to lose. Whether as much i was going to win, it was i didnt, any time i got close, i felt i had to win. I had to i couldnt lose. I couldnt let that happen to me. And it worked. It worked for me. And a lot of times that i can remember gee, i made a bad shot and i got afraid i was going to lose the tournament. And it seemed to work. The putts seemed to go in. Just the desire. Rose the best time, from 58y to 62y, that six year run, your swing. I had a system. And the system worked. It was a system, and it lasted, it was better later than 62 or 53. I suppose that i had a psychological feeling about things. And if i have something that i need to accomplish, and i accomplish it, i letdown. And that happened to me in golf. But i played better golf from oh 65ee to 75, from the standpoint of hitting the golf ball. And hitting it where i wanted to, and doing what i wanted to do better than i did in the years that i won all those events. Did you not win a major between 65 and 75. Thats right. Rose but you were playing better golf. Well, i was the second five times in the open. Rose exactly. Thats what i meanment thats exactly what i mean. Rose take me to the 1960 u. S. Open. Well, the open in 60, i was playing good. And you know, i won the masters. And my game was good and i went to oklahoma city, played good there. And then the next tournament was cherry hills. And i had been to cherry hills to practice. And then i went right up there and practiced and got feeling pretty good about my game. And for 54 holes i hit the ball on the green and two putted, on the green, two putted, just went on and on and on. If and if i missed a green, i made a boeingie. And i will never forget, you have heard this story. Yes. Rose about bob drum. Yes. My friend from pitsberg, a friend, i was in the locker room and i was very disappointed. And i was going to have a sandwich and go play my second round. I ran into drum and i was do you want a hamburger. And i looked at bob and he kidded. We always kidded with each other. I said bob, i said you know, i said i am so upset, i said i played good and nothings happening. I said what do you think, and this was real serious. This was the way i was talking, i said bob, what do you think, if i can shoot 65 this afternoon. And he looked at me and totally insulted me. He just he said it wouldnt help you at all. He said you cant do anything. Well, i never finished the i was so upset. I went out to the practice team, hit a couple of drives and they called me. Rose you kept the driver in your hand. And now im going to tell you something maybe you do know, maybe you dont know. That driver was a hogan driver. Is that right . Arnold pairm, i was with Wilson Sporting Goods and we were talking about clubs and everything. And ben gave me two drivings. And that was one of them. And of course i doctored them. You know. And i went to thety and took that driver and i was and drove it on the green. Rose on the green. 300 and some wards. 36 yarsd, 336 yards. Rose you drove the green. Yep. And i two puttered for a birdie, almost three putted, i was so excited. And then i made six birdies the first seven holes. That got me going and i was walking down the eighth hole and i knew things were happening. And i knew that people were talking. And the crowd was getting bigger and bigger. And who comes walking down the middle of the fairway, bob drum. I was like what the hell are you doing here. And he looked at me and he says youre playing pretty good, arent you. And then i wouldnt even talk to him. I walked right by him. What did i do . Rose what did you do snr. I bogied the hole. I pitched it out of the sand trap about that far and missed the putt. But i shot 30 on the front nine and that was what i needed to do. Rose 30 will get threw. Yeah. Rose will get 65 if you have a 30 on the front nine. And you won the u. S. Open. I won the u. S. Open. Hi won by two. Yeah. Do you remember the great shots and the great tournaments or do you remember the almost where you had if and you bogied the final hole . I remember the ones i lost. I remember some that i won but more importantly, i remember the ones i lost. They probably as much as anything. That is something that i will never forget and did it ruin me or hurt my career, i cant say that it did. It taught me something. It taught me about life a little bit, how to take the bad with the good. I have had a couple of those as you can well remember. And yes, they hurt. They really hurt. But when i reflect on it now and i look back and say, they taught me something. Taught me how to live and how to be a better guy. And not let it defeat, the be the end of my life. And i am thankful for that i wouldnt have i was never felt good if i hadnt experienced losing. Because losing is part of your life and its something that if i could teach people to understand that and get to them with that, i think i would help them a lot. When you think about the army that followed you, z did it make a difference for you. Did it give you something that no one had had on the course . No question, it did. I loved them. And you know, my mother would be in my gallery just to give you an example, and it everybody was calling it arnies army. I would look right at my mother and not remember. Rose when did you first see and play with Jack Nicholas . Well, im considerably older than jack. Rose not considerably, ten years, maybe. Almost 11. Rose okay. And first time i met jack i had heard about his golf and his prowess. And i admired what he was doing. And i was playing in the ohio amateur, i think. And then this is before i even turned pro. And then hit a wall, had an exhibition out in ohio. And he asked me to come and play with jack and he and ho bard sanderson. I went. I met jack for the first time. And we hit it off immediately. Rose liked each other. Yeah, a and we became friends. We were friends. But we competed. And charlie. Yes. That was about so many years ago, i dont even remember now. But we have played gengs each other. Were still friends and hes one of the best friends that i have. He is a guy, we dont spend a lot of time together. But if i felt like i needed something that he was the guy i needed to talk to, i would go see him. Do you agree that the rivalry that took place is part of the magic that everybody says made modern golf . You you, television, Jack Nicholas. Well, no, i dont know. I hope so. I hope that it helped. I think about television. I think about ike. I think about jack. I think about hogan. And how that influentialed me a little bit, and the people had an affect on my life and certainly the relationship with jack was a good one. But it was competitive. And it still is today. How is it competitive today . We do business. Golf courses. You not a great deal but when it comes to something thats good, we agree. If we have something that we need to do as a team, we do it. The competition, did it make you both better . Oh, i think so. I think it i think i know it helped me to have jack playing the way he did. Rose because are you such a competitor, therefore having somebody who is going to challenge you made you better. Exactly. And of course the fact that he was so determined and he had a personality that was very good for what he was doing. And he. Rose what was that personality . He shut everything off. And played golf. And he was very good at that. He could concentrate on what he was doing. I never seen him, maybe in the time that i have known him all our lives for the best part, have i never seen him waiver on the golf course, in competition. The only time that ever happened or that i can recall was when we would be playing in a tournament and we would be playing together. And we would start trying to beat each other. And that sometimes it happened this way. There were occasions when we got to playing each other so much, someone else came along and beat both of us. Rose 18 majors makes him the greatest golfer of all time . Well, until somebody shows me a better game, st makes him the best, yes. Rose do you believe tiger will break his record . No. But i shouldnt say that. I think tiger is as close to it as anyone has ever been jz jack has 18, tiger has 14, you have seven. In between that, there are three or four others. Yeah. And tiger still has a shot at it. But you have got to believe, dont you, that if somebody had the game as good as he has, you can recapture it . Or not. Not sure about that. Once you vary, and you lose that thing that were you talking about earlier, what is it . Sometimes its hard to put in place. What is it . Im not sure i know. Im not sure jack knows. I know what he did and i know how good he was. Is but have him describe to you or to anyone what it was, what was that thing that you grab . I know that he that his concentration was so good that he could play and play the way it was. But i have seen it wander, even with nicholas, as good as he was. Is and now when you have a disturbance in your life thats major, can you get it back . Can you get that thing that you cant put your finger on. And get hold of it and choke it and keep it . Boy, thats a tough deal. Thats something, you see it in every sport. Ive seen it in golf, baseball players, football players. Ive seen them so good and then all of a sudden something happens. And it could be a psychological thing like you dont you say well, ive done it. And thats it. And then you say well, im going to do it again. And it isnt there. You cant find it. You cant grasp it. You cant hold on to it. Some call that an x factor. Exactly. You dont know what it is. You cant define it. But you know when its there. Yep. And you had it, jack had it. A a lot of people. Hogan. Nelson. Buy ron nelson had it. Sam s snrks eed had it. Stam sneed was probably a little further from what we are talking about. And had an ability that was more natural than anybody that i knew in golf. Sneed was close to a natural player as anything that ever happened. But you know, now heres a guy like you sa say lonnie never won the pga. Sneed never won the open. Well, pie goodness, if anybody, if you think about it, anybody that should have won the an open was sneed but didnt. And why. Why. That x factor. But you kept that thing about winning to this very day. You had it. You feel it. About business. Its a drive, its a thing that feels like when gi to bed at night gi to sleep. Ive never met a winner. And i mean that in the best sense of the word, without didnt have a work ethic like youve never seen before. Ive never had somebody come to my table and say i just have so much tam ent that naturally i won. They all say i wanted it more. I worked harder for it, i did more, i focused more. Nags it. Youve got it. Of course i talked sphirs, i talked to my grandsons, two of them, about their games. And i tell them to develop a system. Now theyre young. And if they can develop that system, its going to be the crutch that they need to be good. And stick with that system, make it work for them. But know what it is and know what you have to do to make it work. Rose tell me what a system is. It can be anything you do. It can be the way you swing a gulf club. Rose yeah, right. It can be the habits that you develop when are you learning to play golf. It can be just so many things. But it all has to do with doing it day in and day out. And when you get in competition, when you get under pressure, and you are up over that ball and looking at it and you know where you want to hit it and you know what you have to do, then its doing it. And having that system to depend on, to get the ball to where you want it to be is the secret. Rose said in another way too. Your swing wasnt a perfect swing but it was your swing. It was mine. Rose it was your system. It was what you knew you coo depend on. Thats right. Is it different between you and jack that jack didnt take the kind of risk you took. He wanted to play a conservative game and play the odds and you, it was in your dna. It was just fun. It was fun. Just go at it. Rose just hit it. Hit it, go, as my father said, hit it, go hit it again. Or when there is a when there are two tree there, in front of you, and there is an opening to the pin between them, go through. I had to. I couldnt back off. I was forced to. Rose Phil Mick Elson is a bit that way. Yes. Rose so times you would lose tournaments that you ought to win, and sometimes you win tournaments that you are likely to clues. That is very true. I would like to think that i won more than a lost. But i suppose theres an opinion about that. The most painful loss was . Oh, gee, i could think of a lot of them. Rose a whole list of them. But i suppose san francisco, the open, with the lead that i had. Rose how big was the lead . Seven shots. Rose go floog the final day. Back nine. We were nine holes to play. Rose you were seven strokes ahead with nine holes to play. Yep. Rose how tough is it not having won the pga so that you would have won all the majors . Well, i make excuses. I firned second a number of times. And i played good a couple of times. But i felt like i should win the pga. And it hurts. The fact that i didnt win. And i suppose there is some x factor that says why didnt you win. And my excuses are i have won the australian. Ive won the british, all pga championships. But i havent won the u. S. Rose you give credit for chging golf. The magazine tism that you brought there. And people say that that is much more important than the number of tournaments you won. That because of you and because of the style and because of the drama you brought to the game, that you made it so exciting. And you also brought new fans to the game and that that is a legacy that matches whatever tournaments you won. Does it match it for you . Well, i hope that is i have done a little bit of what you were saying ive done. The game is so fantastic. And people who get into it love it so much. And the fact that if i have had a little bit to do with some of the enjoyment that i see today, i am pleased with that. There is no game like it. You know, you go out there and youty it up on the firstty, charlie. Rose yes. Its you. A golf ball and the golf course. And there you go. And if you can handle it, go at it. Do it. And do it good. But whatever other game there is always someone else in the other game. The guy hitting the ball to you or you throwing the ball somewhere. Or Something Else that, there are other people involved in. In golf. You are the person thats doing it. Rose are you doing two things. You are playing yourself and playing the course. Thats it. And you cant change it, thats the way st. Rose gary player and others have said all of us should give 20 of our earnings to arnie because without him they wouldnt have been the endorsement, there wouldnt have been the attention, there wouldnt have been the television contracts and it would not have been nearly as good for us as it has been. Well, i think you or gary or anybody that says that, but the truth is that its such a great game and its been so much fun for me to be a part of it. I think about what influenced me and what made me do some of the things that you are talking about. Like the golf associations from when i started right leer in western pennsylvania area and played in the west End Golf Association tournaments. And then theu sga, the United States golf association. What those people, whether you like them or dislike them what theyve done to make the game so great is part of what made me do what i wanted to do. And have the opportunity to do what i wanted to do, to play the game, the history of the game. And you know, those things are so important to me that people, talk about the galleries. People that have inspired me to do what i did and to win and to have the pleasures that i have had in my life, my wife winning, kit, my wife now, what they have done, how they have helped me do what i have wanted to do, is so important and i am most grateful for that. And i could spend the rest of my life just thanking people for the contributions that theyve made. And the fact that i have had a big success. Mark mckorm ak, we havent talked about him too much. Mark was great. And we had differences but he was great for me because he taught me something about business and about the world. And the other people, the doc givens, people that i am associated with in life and in business. What theyve contributed just to me mentally in my life is something that i could never thank them enough for. Rose thank you for allowing us to come here. Thank you, charlie. Rose pleasure. I will tell you what, i dont play golf much any more, but if you find your time, you just come here and well try latrove country club. Rose you have made my day, thank you. Very good. Rose thank you very much. Thank you. Rose for more about this program and earlier episodes visit us online at pbs. Org and charlie roast. Com. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications captioned by Media Access Group at wgbh access. Wgbh. Org rose funding for charlie rose has been provided by and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Youre watching pbs. Man its like holy mother of comfort food. Ion. Woman throw it down. Its noodle crack. Patel you have to be ready for the heart attack on a platter. Crowell okay, im the bacon guy. Man oh, i just did a jig every time i dipped into it. Man 2 it just completely blew my mind. Woman it felt like i had a mouthful of raw vegetables and dry dough. Sbrocco oh, please. I want the Dessert First [ laughs ] i told him he had to wait