Transcripts For KQED Charlie Rose 20160419

Director Lorene Scafaria. I didnt want it to be a traditional motherdaughter story. I wanted to stay with marny and let you see what your mom is doing when you are not calling her back. But really explore this character deeper and kind of change what a meddler means, see that a lot of it comes from loneliness, a lot of it comes from just caring too much and having a lot of love to give and not really knowing what to do with it. Politics and the meddler when we continue. Funding for carlie rose is provided by the following and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Servicesworld captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Good evening. Im John Hellemann of Bloomberg Politics filling in for charlie rose who is on assignment. We begin tonight with a look at. Polls show done ald trump continuing to hold a commanding lead over his republican rivals. Hillary clinton also leads in her home state though by a smaller margin. Joining me dan senor, a former advisor to mitt romney and paul ryan, matthew dowd, chief political ansys for abc news and mike feldman, democratic strategist and former chief of staff for Vice President al gore. Im pleetioned to have all of them here at this table. Gentlemen, let me ask you this question. So we just set up the pred cat which is likely victories for the home state candidates. What could happen tomorrow that is within the realm of plaws ability that might surprise you, dan . Well, trump has pretty consistently underperformed his polls. So if he if he just hit just shy of 50 , that would be a big story. I think it would give probably kasich a newer lease on life. I think its highly unlikely to happen wz mike . I think thats right. I think that is the most cons quengs thing that could happen. I think senator sanders could do better than expected. He could pick up more delegates than expected but i dont think that will fundamentally change the outcome or shake up the diemic of the race. Every delegate matters in the Republican Party so i think thats right. Matt. I think the most likely and probable thing is that it goes long into the night for the democrats. That its not settled for a long time. I think the hikely hood is that 901 all of the them call the trump race and dont wait whether it is 49, 50, 51, or 52 but there is a possibility it goes long into the night and hillary pulls it out but not as wide as the polls say. So lets talk about republicans and then well talk about democrats and unpack bots of those a little bit. Two weeks ago in wisconsin donald trump lost, inarguably the worse moment of his campaign so far, dan. An there was a lot of discussion about whether that was a blue print for how to beat him in future states. There was a lot of talk about whether the campaign was kind of reeling, was losing steam. There has been a lot of that rhetoric. What has happened over the course of the last two weeks other than donald trump having the good fortune for coming to his home state, what has happened in the republican race . The first thing is i think trump has prosecuted effectively, unfortunately, a very disciplined Campaign Making the case about how the quote system is rigged. And i think that that has tremendous purchase with a substantial section of the electorate. And im struck by the degree to which he seems to be carrying that forward. The other thing which i think is more important is that ted cruz has not been able to capitalize on his win in wisconsin. So wisconsin was supposed to be this big Inflection Point for ted cruz. He runs a Great Campaign in wisconsin. Going forward, what is the next state he is being to win . Its not going to be new york. Maybe indiana, maybe nebraska but as long as trump is staying as disciplined as he has been over the last couple of weekend s and as long as john kasich is still in the race, trump is probably going to keep winning these states. I just dont see cruz at all having any momentum that could have been spurned by spawned by wisconsin. The trump argument which is that this is a ricked system, that ted rigged system, that ted cruz has been picking the delegates in states where the delegates are averse or adverse to the will of the electorate or where there is no vote whatsoever, this is the argument as dan says, he has been making very vocally for the last few days. One way of looking at that is whining. That is what ted cruz says, hes whining. Another is he is tapping into this populist same kind of energy he has been tapping into throughout the campaign. How does that sound to you as a message person. Is what trump is arguing effective or does it sound like sour grapes. I think its smart. I think its effective. Its not only been effective rhetorically but hes also insulating himself a little bit and preparing, forth fying himself a little bit receipt orically for what will ultimately come down to a delegate fight on the floor. If he is within a couple vote, 50 or 25 vote, this message will come back and come back in a big way. He is sending a message now to the various decision makers. This is not going to be a tech any kallity and my voters arent going away if this comes down to a handful of delegates. If you think he has won 30, 35 plus states if he is 33 million votes ahead of the second place fin irer, ted cruz, it sets things up perfectly to say just look at this. Im losing to the guy, on the second ballot, im going to lose to the guy who won 11 or 12 or 14 states when i won over 30 states . Its powerful. To me, the flawed messenger that he is and that we all know he is in the course of this, it has the benefit of being true. I was going to ask you, is the system rigged. Yeah, it is totally rigged. And its been rigged since it started. I think what hatched, what trump has done, i think actually is a good thing, which is he is basically, everybody is eating hot dogs but he has basically opened up the factory door and showed people what its like, whats going into the hot dog. Its not that pretty. Even though they have been told its all within the hot dog, when you see it, i think the voters out there, different than the delegates because i think there are two separate messages going on. Cruz is arguing to delegates, trump is still arguing to voters, it is an effective message. When you look at the system as it is et is up, it is not a one person, one vote it is not a system designed for that. It is a system designed to empower elites both on the republican side and democratic side. Both have a system that way that it is not as transparent. Even though the rules, i constantly hear well, the rules were known, the rules were knownment you could know the rules and still have a rigged system. There are many things in our life that the rules are known but are still rigged. Wall street is a perfect example. Rules are known but it is a rigged system that certain people can benefit from. This is something brewing for a long time. Most of the focus is what happens in washington, right . Congress is ineffective. Nothing gets done. What do our elected officials doing. With this process to matts point has done is lifted the vail on how we actually choose our candidates and brought that in in a way that wasnt known to america. Frirs of all, trump has Something Like over 40 of the delegates and has been getting on average under 40 of the vote. If the system is rigged it has actually been rigged one could argue in his favor. If it was any more rigged i agree with you receipt orically its effective but on the substance im a little more sceptical. Is it any more rigged than the Electoral Colleged. The Electoral College say rigged system, that was designed to be rigged because it was basically, instead of going to pure popular oat vote which is what most of the Founding Fathers wanted to do, they want to a system where they awarded more Electoral College votes to smaller states to get their votes on board. They designed it that way. And also so one region couldnt dominate. Yeah. That was basically to gather votes, a political decision. If you look at a couple of feks. You have to say it say rigged system when basically some state can cancel a primary because they think that somebody is going to win and then go to a different system six months before election day. Or you take a look at the votes, washington d. C. , the d. C. Primary for the republicans, 2,000 people voted. They chose 20 delegates. Thats one delegate for every hundred people. Michigan voted, 1. Something three million vote, they chose 50 delegates, that is 20,000 people for one delegate. So the system is not is not transparent in a way that people thought it was. And done in a way that was actually consistent. Its not at all. I enjoy the moment when i come to the realization that matd u dawd is the cynicallist. That is what we come to. No he is antiElectoral College. Its all a bunch of rigged systems. I have to say, i love this process. And i love this year. For many different reasons. And one of the one of the reasons. Your love is my nightmare. One of the reasons is that we have two institutions that are dinosaurs. Bernie sanders on one side and donald trump on the other are going to accelerate this country to a place that it needs to go which is an entirely different system not based in two legacy parties that most of the country feels doesnt represent them and isnt working. And i think thats a good thing. Let me ask you this question. You are have publicly, you have worked for marco rubio for a little while. Were you very close to paul ryan. You are out front, never trump, wont vote for him. Under any circumstances ever. So the Never Trump Movement, i want to go back to wisconsin. The Never Trump Movement had a moment in wisconsin, right . Understanding that trump has seized on a message that is powerful, has come back to his home state, luckily for him, where it fell on the calender. But what has happened to the Never Trump Movement . Because at this moment as we look down the calender and we look at how trump is will pooing in these various states, like is there a plan now in the Never Trump Movement to try. Whenever the question is what is the plan. There is never a it assumes that. The Never Trump Movement seemed to have suddenly momentum. The momentum seemed to shift in that direction. Now what . A few things worked in wisconsin. One, i think trump stepped in a little bit. And said some things that were unartful on abortion. Attacks on ted cruzs wife. So trump was part of the problem. I think the role of scott walker in wisconsin was very important. Trump going after walker as a sim doll of the establishment, i get in trumps head why that model of going after a prominent republican in a state that has endorsed your opponent would work. But it doesnt work walker is not considered the establishment in wisconsin. Hes been at war with the unions. Hes been at war with these college kids who took over madison with these fights over pengs reform. So walker was effective. The conservative talk host, the conservative Media Community in wisconsin, talk show host, they were very effective. So i think you had something going on in wisconsin that is hard to replicate in other places. Not impossible but hard. So maryland could conceivably, Governor Hogan is very popular. You could mobilize him. Down the road there may be places like in indiana and nebraska where you could mobilize something comparable to wises business. But its hard. One thing have i been struck by with cruzs campaign is he put something together in wisconsin, part of it was his work, part of it was organic. You know, walker and these conservative establishment getting organized. He has not been able to put it together so far in other places. Someone who is trying to stop trump, im worried about that. The thing that always stopped trump is not some external force of never trump. It has always been trump himself. Trump is winning, has won in spite of himself and not having a real professional campaign, not because of it. D i think that came to bear in wisconsin. In the aftermath of wisconsin the question you first asked dan is i think theres been a couple of changes in trump world that have actually helped him head into a very good state for him, new york. And where the nemp Trump Movement was not going to be all that effective anyway. Is one he has become a more disciplined candidate, right. He went offer the radar for a long period of time whether intentionally or his tail was between his legs, whatever the reason. It actually turned out to be a very good move. Now he brought in some folks that looked like it is beginning to professionalize his organization that werent there before. All of those things and the calender it sets up, all of them are a benefit which makes it very hard. And i think one of ted cruzs problems, i think in the course of this is the more voters see ted cruz and the more hes exposed isnt a good thing for ted cruz in the course of this. Thats why he wins in small states with few voters and few people and he doesnt win in large scale voters. One thing, kasich staying in is also helping trump immensely. If you look at the other potential Inflection Points Going Forward in this race, maryland, indiana, certainly california. I mean california is winner take all by congressional district. If kasich and cruz splitting the antitrump vote he could be winning these districts with 35, 40 of the vote. So kasich can obviously make his case for why hes staying in. You can make the argument that ted cruz staying it is helping trump. Of course. I think trump has a better shot, i think krz has a better shot of accumulating more delegates and get closer to trump than kasich. So heres the question, mike. John. Trumps running, has a very strong now populist message on the question of a rigged system. Hes professionalized his campaign. He is likely to win new york, possibly win all the delegates in new york. Hes got the calender ahead with a lot of states favorable to him, not all but many. Can donald trump be stopped now . Very hard, very hard. I think the threshhold, we talk about the number of 1237 but i think the threshhold is lower, given the fact he is effectively prosecuting this argue about the rigged system and given the fact there is a coshent of momentum delegates. If he gets to 1100 or 1150, it looks like hes cruising towards the nomination. Those uncommitted delegates from here, from there, a deal is cut, he will get the number he needs on the first ballot. I think its very hard to stop him. I think it will be even harder by tomorrow night. I think the number for trump, i think, we were talking about this before. I think the number on june 8th he needs to hit is 1150. That gives him, 87 more delegates he needs to pick up between june 8th and the convention. I think that is the number. If he goes in with 1147 delegates or 1152 and hes won 33 states, he has 4 million more votes, 300 more delegate, what do you think at the convention. You dont think trump can be stopped. I think he can the only thing that can stop trump as we always said is trump. I wouldnt be surprised if in the aftermath of new york, because he who he is, he starts making mistakes again because he gets bravado. Maybe he is better off when he loses because he performs better. I wouldnt be surprised if he continues to make mistakes but if he continues to operate this way, it will be hard to stop him. He is et going harder to stop before the convention. At the convention if it goes to a second or third ballot, i think there is a play if the Convention Opens up. But i dont think it necessarily means it goes right to cruz. I think that will be a tough case. Let me wrap up republicans real quick. Paul ryan is for real, right. Not going to be a white knight. Who is the white knight. I think the first set of White Knights we should consider are people who have actually run the cycle. Scott walker, marco rubio, john mentioned i worked for rubeo, this is not what rubio is planning to do im just saying. I think just about any of the republicans who ran, and particularly those who accumulated real delegates would be competitive. I think walker did so well in wisconsin, he had such a good second act in the election gif enthe first act was so bad, if it is a lockdown, dead lock convention i i think a guy like walker could be compelling. You have not mentioned the actual guy still in the race, john casek. John kasich, is there any scenario in which you see john casek as the republican nominee. Its not likely but there is a scen scen ar yovment john kasich at some point has to start winning delegates. There is a delegate thing. I needs to win some in new york and some in maryland it would be nice if he won in other state, not ohio in the course of this. The interesting thing will go to is when we go to a second ballot and a third ballot. Does john kasich start picking up a larger percentage of those ones that start moving then ted uz cruz. If that starts happening. If he gets a hundred delegates and ted cruz gets 60, then you start seeing that happen, then i think thats john kasich scenario. I think that is what they think their only scenario. I want to move to democrats and start with you, mike, i ask a similar question to the one i started the republican conversation with. Bernie sanders won huge in wisconsin, coming to new york, Hillary Clinton how many state, the clinton said they thought this would be a competitive primary, a lot of money would be spent here as there was. Bernie sanders would get big crowds as he has goten. Yet the race at least on the basis of public polling has not tightened as much as certainly the Sanders Campaign thought and the Clinton Campaign feared. So what has happened here in the last two weeks in this new York Democratic primary . I think the Clinton Campaign has run a met odd kal statewide election here. They prepared for it early on and are executing on it. She has some experience running in new york state. Shes got the right team of people around her. They know how to run a race here. If you look at her pattern until now, she is met oddically going after every strand of the democratic nominating electorate that Bernie Sanders has failed to capitalize on. And he just cant win a statewide race if you want to look at it that way, in new york city with 28,000 person crowds of very fervent young supporter, cant do it. It helps her that its a close primary. He cant have an expanded electorate. Only democrats. No independents, they cant vote in this. Another part of the rigged system. That we have seen on both sides. Conspiracy ther rests. Done all j trump. Conspiracy means it is hidden. It is right there out in the open. I think that that is the case with Bernie Sanders. But you know Bernie Sanders to me is, if donald trump wasnt existing in this, Bernie Sanders would be the story of 2016. Its an amazing story the fact that where he has come from, who he is and how he has risen in the course of this, i think also fundamentally, and i think weve seen this, it exposes the vulnerability of Hillary Clinton. There is a desire, amongst a lot of people of somebody other than Hillary Clinton but they think thats the only chance and only shot and the only thing they have the interesting thing, if you look at the polling numbers for Hillary Clinton over the course of the last 30 days as shes methodically moving, her unfavourables continue to rise across the country, they are now in 56th territory, not far behind done alt trump of 63, or 64, not far behind and the race naltly, even though a National Number at this point doesnt matter any more, but the race nationally between Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton while she is closing the nomination is close. Now within Single Digits between the two of them. So i think she pulls it out. She wins the state likely. I still think there is an outside shot that Bernie Sanders, something happens tomorrow night. But i think she is pulls it out. But she ends this process incredibly vulnerable. To just about any candidate on the republican side, the two most likely to win the nomination. Donald trurp and ted cruz. The only ones higher unfavourables. It is maddening that the end of this process with hillary so vulnerable we are left with candidates, any one of the others could have biteen her. Let me ask you about lex ability of republicans but back to the rigged system. The democratic system is a rigged system and openly rigged system. Superdelegates are as much of a rigging device as you can imagine, to basically say we are going to create a back stop so that if the actual voters do something not sensible in the view of the establishment, we have a counterweight so the establishment can step in and select a different nominee. In this case it looks like Hillary Clinton will be ahead in pledged delegates and popular vote and superdelegates who are largely for her will be able to stay with her. Is there an argument the Sanders Campaign can make, given that either one of them will need superdelegates, neither one will get to a majority by june 7th on just pledged delegates, is there an argument the Sanders Campaign can make to those superdelegates that could be per vais persuasive to bring some or enough of them over to his side . Maybe a handful but i doubt it. In the end, you have talked about the phenomenon at the end of one of these races when you go toorsd the convention and somebody has a head of steam it is to consolidate support around that person, not suddenly break away support, especially among the superdelegate class. And by the way i think both dan and matt would agree they wish they had superdelegate this particular cycle. I dont. I am a total independent. Right. In the ind i dont think thats likely to happen. Who say stronger general election cap candidate, Bernie Sanders or Hillary Clinton. I think Bernie Sander is stronger for one reason. If you were going to bet on something, bet on authenticity. And thats one of the reasons Hillary Clinton is continues to be vulnerable is there is a huge swath of voters that dont think shes authentic, that dont trust who she is. You get the argue he is a democratic socialist and all of that. I think people sort of weigh all that out. And its not based on policies or issues. Its going to be based on the feel of the person. I think the feel of the person for Bernie Sanders, he is the only one out there other than donald trump that can generate enthusiasm, generate a crowd, generate movement in that. I guess they will spend all kinds of money and tar him and do all that. In the end i think Bernie Sanders is a better general election candidate. The democrats arent going to nominate the best general election candidate. They are each not going to nominate the best general election candidate. There is no doubt she is an established political brand and probably the most vir you lent antiestablishment political cycle that i can remember. Having said that, as soon as we get past this process it becomes a choice. The choice, the choice election and at this point the most likely republican nominee versus Hillary Clinton, if you actually look at this state by state among the strands of the general electorate, she holds up pretty well. If Bernie Sanders does not shock us tomorrow and wins the new york primary, what is the next teuntd for him to do something that could be a game changer . Look, i think his strategy and i think new york is included in this, is to continue to amass delegates, to continue to energy identifies his base of support and roll that into the convention. I think probably you put truth certificateup in and Bernie Sanders they would say its highly unlikely he could get the nomination thought right. Can he have an impact at the convention or moving forward, can his support and the energy of his supporters help the democratic nominee ultimately in the fall, you bet. I think tomorrow night Bernie Sanders last chance for a political earthquake. I think he has a chance to do better in states, but they will be like tremors or aftershocks. He has to have an earthquake tomorrow. It is the only possibility he has. In order to do this, he has to finish ahead in pledged delegates in order to make the argument that the superdelegates should go for him in the course of this. So if he doesnt win tomorrow, i dont think theres really any opportunity for him left. So theres the reality is that no matter what, if you wered nominee you want to have a unified, ecstatic party behind you when you come you out of your convention into the fall. It is a divided country, it is going to be close on most metrics. Hillary clinton wants to have unity. And the strange thing about these very long contested nomination fight is that the loser has all the power at that moment. Because the loser is the one who can either encourage their supporters to shift to the nominee or not. In 2008 Hillary Clinton grudgingly slowly but event eventually by the time they got to denver she was behind barack obama, all of those women, mostly women who said they would never support barack obama eventually ended up voting for obama. Does Bernie Sanders have it in him as somebody whos is not a member of the democratic partied, never loyal to the democratic party, does he have it in him to take all those millenials, those 28,000 people in Prospect Park and eventually hand them over to Hillary Clinton and say you must believe in her, go vote for her. Here is what i think. I think if you look at the two parties, i think the democrats have a lot better changes of union fying their party than the republicans do of union fying theirs. If you look at how people, hillary voters perceive bernie and bernie voters perceive hillary, this he are both very positive one wants bernie and one hillary but the underlying numbers, they dont hate each other in the democratic primary. So i think its very easy to union fie. I think its very hard to transfer enthusiasm. So i think hillarys problem is not union fying the part and i think that will happen. I think Bernie Saners will give a great speech, do all that, and say she is aes our person. Rnie sanders, i thinkcause ofear hillarys problem is not that they would vote for donald trump or ted cruz but that they would say im not going to vote. If the nominee is dorch ald trump or ted cruz on our side, isnt that all the other, the democrats need for enthusiasm. That is like pressing a button. Right. I as we know, i dont even think they need enthusiasm at that point to beat donald trump or ted cruz. Unit, ultimately. Yes. Enthusiasm. Yes. Especially if again you go back to the choice, almost under any scenario, there is going to be a lot of Energy Behind the choice in the election. Right, three of my favorite new yorkers or at least sued owe new yorkers all the people, people who hang out here a lot or live here a lot, dan senor. Im voting tomorrow. Michael feldman and matthew dowd, you guys are all great. Thanks for doing this. And well be back in a minute. Good evening, im melena ryzik of the new york timeses sitting in for charlie rose on assignment. In the meddler, marnie an aging widow from new york follows her daughter lori to los angeles. There she begins interfering in every aspect of loris life without realizing it is programs her own life that needs fuksing. Writer director Lorene Scafaria sophomore effort explore this complex relationship between mother and daughter. Vanity fair calls the film subtle, inspired and metic lusly observed. Here slt trailer for the meddler. Lori, lori. Lore, are you not bring in the mail today . Mom, you have to ring the door bell. But ive got the key. How do you feel since your there are a lot of hours in the day. And so sometimes i call lori. Brought you bagels. You should have called. I did. But i didnt answer. You condition just leave someone with bon glie orchid. You left let it die too. I think we should get you a hobby. Maybe you could be my hobby. I have to go to new york for a few weeks. New york. I leave tomorrow. Tomorrow. If i go with you, i could be like your assistant. No. Marnie, what are you doing here. You said you needed a babysitter. I brought bagsels. Mom, dont talk to my friends. What you have to do is have him tip you upside down. That is what joe and i did to conceive lori. Call me and let me know you got in safe and remind me to tell you what your therapist said. Do you maybe need a ride. I would kill my daughter if she died on a motorcycle. This isnt a motorcycle t is a harleydavidson. That makes you a libra, scales, justice, you should be a lawyer. Maybe. And not married, thats so funny. My daughter is not married either. I know im overstepping my boundaries. What if i gave you the money. Would lori be upset . Why, shes not getting married. You got kids. Beautiful girls, the one that doesnt like me lives over in palm springs. Its not my business but you have to call her. Can we take a selfie. Who are you sending a selfie too . Who are you texting . You just texted someone and you cant be here for it. I still need a ride to the airport. Joining me are the stars of the film Susan Sarandon and rose byrne and the writer and director Lorene Scafaria. Im pleased to have all you will of you at this table. Welcome. Thank you, thanks for having us. Thank you for joining me. Now lorene, this is your second film and it is a personal story for you. It is based a little bit on your own mother, ask that right . Very much on my own mother. Was it a film you always wanted to make or a project that you came to in the middle of other idea sms. No, i started writing it in 2010 about a month after my mother moved from new jersey to los angeles after my father passed away. And she got an iphone immediately and started calling a lot. And a few voice mails later i started writing the opening scene. I wasnt sure how personal it was going to be, ultimately. Ultimately its very personal, got even more personal as i went. And yeah, so its very much based on my mom, the character is very much baisessed on my mother. And the setup is mostly true. But we deef yaited from there. So it was a little bit of an outlet for you as you were dealing with this own change in your relationship with your mom. Yeah, yeah t was very therapeutic. I think both of us, we did have a lot of great conversations about grief and what we were both going through. Because ultimately that was what the film was about both of us grieving really differently and trying to, you know, maintain our very close relationship while being a little closer than usual. Did you think always that your mom, the mother character would be the center of the film or did you think, you know, there is a character that rose plays in the film that is a screen writer. Did you think maybe i will make the story about her. No, i was adamant about not even having it about a twohander, really. I didnt want it to be a traditional motherdaughter story. I wanted to stay with marnie and really see, you know, what your mom is doing when you are not calling her back. But also really explore it, this character deeper and kind of change what a meddler means. See that a lot of it comes from loneliness, a lot of it comes from just caring too much and having a lot of love to give and not really knowing what to do with it. So at no point did i want to do that. Certainly people encouraged me to do so in order to get the film made. But no, i only wanted to tell marnies story, really. And you right away thought of susan as a person to play the part, right . I did. In my wildest dreams. I mean i had always pictured her, once i was done picturing my mother i was picturing susan. And so yeah, i just i, you know, shes got this quality to her. I mean youre so funny. Are you so funny. But but she is so warm and mat earn and you know, as a humanitarian, just the most giving and generous person. And i just thought, i mean, this is sort of what my mother dreams of being, the kind of person who is actually saving lives, you know. And so yes, so susan is kind of the supermarnie in a way. Susan, when you got the script, did you know that you were walking into a situation that was so personal, that was so based on real life. Yeah, because i got a letter. And i really laughed out loud and i was moved also. And then when i met lorene, you know, her passion and her story and i really liked her. And then i got the little real of her mom doing the opening of the film, five minutes of the opening of the film and that just cinched it. When i saw that, i said we have to find a way to get this done. And of course everything, when you are working for no money and are you working very fast, you have to surround your self with people that really are in the same tone. The players that are going to not be commenting on it, somebody that would play it really. And lorene was great in assembling this cast. We got rose and j. K. Simmons, and those were two huge pieces. And then all of the other comedians that are in it, standup comics. And just gals that were so much fun to hang out with. And guys too. I mean Michael Mckeen was great. And all these little parts, theres not a weak link in the whole thing. Its a real comedy lovers dream. Yeah. You met lorenes mom, her name is gale, right . Grail, yeah. Were you thinking im going to do a little bit of an impression because she has an accent, this brooklyn. Hi the accent and i yeah, i mean t was written that way. I think it was a very important part because when she goes from new york, new york, long island to l. A. , you notice at the baby shower she is all in black. I wore all her moms clothes too. Like all the tops are. Her real clothes. Yeah. So shes develop isolated, isolated where she is sitting, in the way she looks. Her accent was very important to for that but of course you dont want it to get too big. But i had it on my phone, tim who is a friend of mine put it on my phone for every scene so i would check. There was something that we really didnt get on an improv or something, then we could go back during the dubbing and mix some of the things. But it was just a great group of people. Because we were movek so fast. We really only had 23 days. That is a short indy scheduled shoot. Definitely. Yeah. And rose when you walked on to the set, did you know, you had the mother daughter situation twice over because here youve got susan playing your mother based on your directorwriters own mother. Was she there, did she come on set. Not on set. We didnt let her come on set. We had a double date, the four of us. We had dinner together. It was fun. So was that a strange experience for you to have this doubled sefns a mother Daughter Relationship to deal with . There is a sense of responsibility, absolutely, having you know a real story. But for the most part i really enjoyed it because lorene was so candid and open with information and just sharing anything and everything she could with all of my questions. Liked context of the scene or where the character because she is sort of emotionally unstable and volatile when we meet lori in the film. So as an actor it is great, you wants as much information as you can get and obviously throw it out the window. And you just are in the moment, in the scene. But i kind of really liked it. Because it was so sperveg and intimate and i hadnt done nik like that for so long. So i really relished just being able to work opposite susan was such an honor. Such a fan, been such a fan of her work my whole life. For 50 years. I really am, she is such a soulful actress. Thank you. Such an incredible body of work. So it was really pretty, pretty cool to go to work with her. I want to show another clip. We have a scene where you guys are out for a romantic valentines day dinner. And one of the ways. Together. Together. And one of the ways that marny med els in her daughters life is she Takes Initiative with your exboyfriend. So i think that is a clip were going to watch. Its really good timing for me, you know. I can get out of town. And be busy and finally take my mind off things. Jacob. Exactly. Hey, i two. Hey, you two. Hey, marny yns jacob, good to see you. You know i never said anything bad about you. You know elise, right . Yeah. Well, we dont want to interrupt your girl time. No, no, no. Its fine. We were just doing a driveby until i go out laterment i didnt want her to have to spend valentines day alone. I didnt want her to spend it alone either. Im not alone. No, were together. Until later when im meeting other people. I thought we were having a sleepover. Well. Thats so cute. I wish my mom and pri that close. Oh, well, maybe when you get older. Were you just taking notes as your mom was living this life alongside you. Oh, yeah, there are so many things that are just fortunately i never had a runin like that but we certainly have spent valentines day together. And i think even on our double date i kicked her under the table once or twice. So you know, yeah, a little bit. For you, is it more intimidating or nerve racking it play someone who is a real person, who you have met who you know is going to be watching the film later on . As rose say you have a sense of responsibility. Certainly in a comedy t wasnt as painful as i have played people, you know, in one whose daughter had been murdered and they came to the set. Which was a complete recreation of their house. And i was wearing the daughters watch and you know, and they were at the moniter in a very difficult scene. And that was a bit much. And i have played historical figures, of course, sister hell then deadman walking. Really was nervous about that because of the implications of, you know, the political thing. But on the other hand, as rose said, you have your jock is to make it as specific as possible. And so you have this wealth of things to draw from, little details. And that makes is easier. So its you know, pros and cons to did it. But i think in this, there was i guess its only thing that would have been terrible, if there had been really no winking at the audience or i have seen some of these kind of moms that were very, very extreme. And though it felt kind of extreme, i tried to grounds it as much in her love and in reality and nopt comment on it. That was, i guess,ed trap for all of us. To get so wound up that you start to make fun of the people instead of just being as objective as possible. Of course when i saw it for the first time from the outside i thought shes crazy. What did i do snr so annoying. But everyone seems to forgive her. And it is from a good place. So i guess she ultimately, kind of do that a few times it is a bit cringe worthy. There is one other scene with him that is really cringeworthy. Wellintentioned. All wellintentioned. All wellintentioned. One of the things that is striking is when you have a film that is about women, primarily, you know, there are so few films that are carried by women in this way that every role starts to have this outside importance. It takes on a different depth because you start to think well, does this woman represent all mothers. And why should she . But there is that sense because we simply dont have that many films with women at the center. With her voice. Yeah. You can see women on screen but a lot of times the story is definitely, even when its about the woman told from a males point of view, there was a movie that was a book that i saw recently that the book is written in the voice of the woman and the movie is definitely the voice of the male and it made a huge difference. I mean not to say ones right or wrong but how it works is definitely different. Right. And i was really struck watching the film that we dont see this kind of character on screen very much. And we even seeing you on screen a loin, there is not even, there are so many scenes because your character is lonely, shes in the center of the screen just by herself. And im not dying. Im not helping someone die. I dont have alzheimer. Yeah. So lorene are you telling this personal story. Was that also a part of it that you wanted to bring female characters that we dont usually season screen to the screen. What was fun was it want i didnt s3t out to do that. It just sort of happened which is great. Just to be able to tell the story about people. And allow them to be a part of the human condition. Allow women to be treated as people. To be a part of that. I mean it just sort of happened. And i lover it. Obviously. I feel like we fail the opposite of the test almost. Because there are very few scenes where men are talking to each other. And. Yet the guys that have seen it really enjoyed it. They seem so surprised and happy that they really laughed. And a lot of them said it reminded them of their mom or something. So i dont think we made a chick flick. I think that it is something that everybody can be moved and laugh. The movek moments that i like about it is you dont see them coming. You know, i dpnt feel like we really lorene didnt sent mamentallize the times when something, you know, its kind of surprised me when i read the script it was one of the firs times that i have read a script where i didnt know in the first six pages exactly what was im terrible to watch a movie with because i will look and say oh, she has akoff. Were going to see why is she smoking that significantar, hmmmm, you know, and can i call every development that is about to happen to the point where its really annoying. But i didnt feel that way with this. So lorene, when you were making this film and trying to fill it, did you get the kind of notes we hear about all the time from studio executives saying maybe put another guy into it. Maybe you can make the character younger. Yeah. The sort of Horror Stories that we hear, did that happen to you. Yeah, i heard it all. We said put marnie in her 50s, put lore ni her 20st which definitely didnt make sense to me. Have the male character come in much earlier so that its a traditional sort of romantic comedy. Make the daughter role a lot bigger. Maybe even from her point of view. And i just refused. It all seemed to go against the entire idea of the film. I mean not only about characters that are at certain stages in their lives which i think if lori was in her 20st, it wouldnt have been the same. If marnie was in her 50st i dont think it would have been the same. So resisted all of that. I just really thought that it just had to be kind of exactly this. I mean kind of a daughter on the wrong side of 35. And you know, a woman who if she wanted to, could have hung it up and felt like well, that was it for me. And yet here she is making a go of it. And finding a way to move on. What did you learn, what did you guys learn from working together especially all female environment because you had female producers involved too. But i think its a specific females. I dont want to burst anyones bubble but i have worked on the last, all the last three or four films i have done have all been directors that were women. Thats rare. And i think that ive worked with women on other things. And just like all men are not particularly commune cattive, sometimes i worked on one film that had a lot of young women and the director ended up being really mean. Really mean. The girls hated her by the end of the film. And so i mean, i any that you especially notice, i think womn, if you are going to generalize as producers because we have been taught to facilitate without the power thing komenting into play as often, you dont have to blame someone when something goes wrong. You just fix it. I notice that is the difference on a set when you have good Women Producers or first adst are really good, also, as women. That can talk to people and anticipate, multitask. A lot of those things. And especially the more women you have on a set, definitely the vibe changes. But to say that, you know, all women directors are one thing would be as silly as saying that all men directors are the same, you know. So i hope that there will be more and more women because i think the goal is to make sure that women have a chance to be as big assholes as guys are. That is the direction we need to go in. The mawlt might shall ultimate. Yeah, we dont all have to be on Good Behavior or anything. Yeah, but certainly its to tell a womans story, from a womans point of view, i mean i suppose you know there have been famous gay writers that have done that, Tennessee Williams or, you know, other directors have i i have worked with that have been able to do that. But i think you stand a very good shot with a woman especially if its her story. The moments that they seem to miss are the moments where no one is talking. And also the editor, thats very important. But to see where something lands, to see where the thought is beginning, lots of times people just want to edit, edit, edit to what they think is the meat of it. Which is the talking part, is the dialogue. But to be able to understand, to give characters a moment, to have the reaction, is really where a lot of difference happens. And when we did that, you know, you can see things developing. And the audience goes along with that. And thats really special. Are you the kind of director that likes to do a lot of takes. Likes to have rehearsal. Who knows yet. Because we didnt have the time or the money to do any of that. I mean i dont think i would be the kind of person who would like to beat something to the ground even if we had all the time in the world. Certainly would have liked double time on this, just to allow these great actors to have, you know, one more, two more. But we didnt really need it. That was what i mean it was we had to go it this way. But it with these people it felt like, you know, two, three takes, and you kind of got it. I mean gosh, i dont know. There is i like working sphas. Sometimes if you have too much time you lose the focus. I mean and you its also nice on a small movie the crew, can stay focused for 23 days. Yeah. And they will do those long days. And theyll which we had and we were doing one of those weeks that starts early in the morning on monday and goes all the way through saturday till dawn and you start all over. You cant do that for months and months without people getting cranky. You can hang in for 23 days to do that. And lorene had her birthday it was a very close group of people that wanted to be there. Surely not for the money. But for the experience and the script and the company and everything else. And so it was very celebratory. I dont think if you are doing that for four months, you cant sustain that. But to be able to focus, its almost like stunt work. We were kind of doing stunts. A lot of camaraderie when are you all in it together. I group up in and that film i am used to a very short, very fast, very cheap kind of setup. Especially people who bounce back and forth between indie films and bigger budget films like you do, there is a sense when i talk to them that indie films are fun because it is a different kind of film making for sure. But you have that were all in it together, lets put on a show intensity. It really is true. And you do have to focus. People are there because they want to be, not necessarily because they are getting a great paycheck. And at the ind of the day, whether you are on a big film or a smaller film like the meddler, it is still you, the script, the director, the other actor. And it is still the same, ste end of the day its still the same kind of thing. So i try to remember that, in all situations, whether you are being rushed and you dont have time or whether it is intimidatek and overwhelming. But to have someone that you are working with that has a great sense of humor and great comic timing that can be that emotionally accessible is really unusual. The only other person i have met beside rose is mel isesa mccarthy who was surprisingly able to tap into crying take after take, you know. With her hot lod hair. So open and so full. But i think, you know, the scenes that rose had were, i keep calling it the xgames of acting because you had to go in angry, then cry, then be happy, then get angry, then cry again. And you know, like only you dont have a lot of time to go off somewhere and get yourself situationed. She had to come up with it right away. And i was pretty just following her lead most of the time in it was fun for me to just watch her and respond. But she had to be the one driving. Did doing this film change your relationship, rose, for example with your mom . Well, my mom is very, not overbearing at all in that sense. If she does, you know, med el, its very rarely so its quite a powerful move when she does. So i really perk up and listen. But theyre very australian in that sense. Quite restrained and very lowkey, and no fus. They would do anything for me, but theyre great, theyre wonderful. But it definitely makes you examine all relationships in your life whether it is your parent or a boyfriend or girlfriend youve had that is a little bit too involved. And i have a hard time being aggressive and a sertive with people sometimes, so i do tend to get myself in situations where im all of a sudden just doing what i am told all the time. Like im acting because im quite o bed yent. Just tell me where to stand. Lorene, what was the experience like of watching the film with your mom when it was finally over . I mean weve had a few stages of it, i mean she saw every cut, you know. She wasnt a laked on set but i did call her every day, let her know how the day went. I would let her see dailies and stuff. Its been surreal. It was certainly therapeutic at some point. And now i mean shes just having a great time, you know. E says oh, daddy would have loved to be married to Susan Sarandon. So it is surreal on so many levels. But it is more personal now than it was before, honestly. Like this is the weirdest part fome. At least, is sharing it with people. And because it was certainly personal on paper but then when we went to work and were just trying to make a fim trk wasnt. But we were still in your house, with your dogs, with her clothes and now, now its screut niezed by the world. I know. Hopefully. And they will be like whats with her tops. Blame my mother, please. Yeah, no, its by glamplet and we screened it and we had a premier in los angeles. And my mother and i experienced that completely differently. As we have experienced almost everything differently. But my friends were all wailing and sobbing and having a hard time. And she and her friends just had a blast. Arent we nuts. Arent moms crazy. Just had a completely different night. Did you consider doing there as a tv series. I was told to. And i was told to because i was someone said that female characters are allowed to flourish on television and that just made my head explode. So i tried to imagine it. What is funny is i just didnt want to live with it for that long. Now i feel like. I wouldnt have wanted to either. It has just been years but i was excited to give this character a cinematic life it made me feel like well sure, she might not have been a giant in the world, but i just thought that there should be a beginning, middle and end for a character, you know, that doesnt change all that much. But allow her to have, you know, an experience. And it was sort of the reason for the story was to allow for a very, you know, human character to undergo some great adventure and fun and you know, a Love Interest that doesnt exist in real life. But yeah. Yet. Yet, yet. I know, were working on it. It is a genre of film that kind of strad els the boundary between comedy and descrama which people are saying is disappearing from the multiplex as we are going into this tent pole you know action movie universe. What can we do to convince people that we want to see more of this besides you know, butts in seats. Butts in seats, you know, money talks, i think. And its hard to argue with superhero movies that people just come out in droves for. But i dont know, these are my favorite kinds of movies. Theyve been my favorite kinds of films for ever, dramedys, drama comedies, the 80s had james brooks there were so many films like this that i could reference that are over 20 years old. And i miss the betweeners. I miss the movies that are, you know, more than 2 million and under 100 million. I dont know, i hope that people just spread the word and maybe just not say that all movies starring women are genre film, that are chick flicks or something. I mean i think its about opening up to people and being inclusive. They dont call the other ones flicks. They could. They probably will. Im curious to see, i would love to see what happens in other countries. Because you know, moms have very strong influences in italy, spain, i was even surprised when we did the client press in swrap an. I had never thought of that as being a country where the mother figure was really, really important cuz its kind of, to me was a subdued culture. Compared to greek moms or italian moms, ones that i knew. So i am curious. I think were going to take it to italy to see how they react there, you know, whether or not the mom. Is a universal. Problem. I think youre going to find that that is the case. You find this character in a lot of different cultures. So thank you all for coming. Meddler is out april 2 27bd. Everybody go see it and call your mom. For more about this programnd earlier episodes visit us online at pbs. Org and charlie rose. Com. Z captioning sponsored by Rose Communications captioned by Media Access Group at wgbh access. Wgbh. Org. Rose funding for charlie rose is provided by the following and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services wor this is nightly Business Report. With Tyler Mathisen and sue herera. Big blue bruised. Netflix retreats. As old tech and new tech issue Earnings Report cards for investors. Talks collapse. No oil teal in doha but crude prices didnt crumble as much as expected and theres a surprising reason why. Fighting zika. The drugmakers developing vaccines to help combat the newest Public Health concerns. The first of a threepart series on nightly Business Report for monday, april 18th. Good evening and welcome. The dow topped 18,000 for the First Time Since july. But we begin tonight with a look at old tech and new tech in to