They, are you know, pushing the opposition in many places especially around damascus and they think they are going to win soon, so they are not really, you know, in the business of making concessions. This is what we were facing in geneva. Charlie we conclude with veteran sports broadcaster Verne Lundquist. Let your imagination roam a bit. Earlier in my career, i started in austin at president johnsons television station, i was there three years and i thought, im not devoting my life to something serious. So i took a job in san antonio at woai, the nbc affiliate, and for a year anchored the 6 and 10 00 news. I realized, in the midst of it, i missed the frivolity of sports, i guess, back then. I missed the absence of the parameters. I felt like i had a little more freedom to express myself as a sportscaster. Charlie the Malaysian Airliner, syrian negotiations and Verne Lundquist when we continue. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Charlie we begin with the Malaysian Airliner. The search continues for flight 370, boeing 777, its disappearance has captured the attention of the world. Reported is significant changes in altitude. Cnn reports indicated it miff crashed into the indian ocean. The u. S. Is searching the bay of bengal for signs of a plane. Joining me from washington is colonel stephen t. Ganyard, previously Deputy Assistant secretary in the bureau of Political Military Affairs and is a pilot. I am pleased to have him on this program. Welcome. Thank you, sir. Charlie where are we as we tape this conversation at about 7 00 p. M. New york time . Im glad you put the hour in there, charlie, because its amazing. The story is changing by the hour. I think ive changed my personal opinion two or three times about what the possibilities are. This New York Times story that came out tonight was very interesting because it says there were radical altitude changes in this aircraft as it proceeded up the strait of malacca. If this is true, this would lead to one potential scenario. There are others who are saying this radar data, because its just what we call a reflection of the radar energy with no transponder data associated with it, that this is not reliable and was probably straight and level and these are anomalies. So if the aircraft was straight and level and there werent big altitude changes, i would favor a different scenario. But what we do know, i think, given the evidence thats evolved today, is that this airplane was under the control of somebody, whether they were pilots or somebody back in the cabin, and it flew 90 degrees out essentially from its original flight path and it looks pretty certain at this point that that airplane is somewhere in the bottom of the indian ocean. Charlie and the assumption is that that person flying it probably turned off the transponders that might have been sending information about the plane . Right. So lets back up on the flight path. You remember it took off from kuala lumpur and basically went due north out over the gulf of thailand headed toward beijing. About 49 minutes into the flight the transponder was turned off, that gives the data, heading, speed, identifies the aircraft to the ground controllers. After that, about 17 minutes later, theres a system called acars which is sort of a Health Management system that reports on how the airplane is feeling, how its doing, whats broken and reports back to the maintenance people. That was turned off as well. Little did whoever turned these box know that this acar system continued to ping satellites that said, im here if you want to talk to me on a regular basis. Thats whats given us the new Additional Data today that has shown us the aircraft at the 49 minute mark or shortly thereafter made a 90degree turn to the west, proceeded out over the peninsula, up the strait of malacca and likely after that southward into the indian ocean. Charlie and what do they know in terms of how long the flight continued . Because it four hours as some people have suggested . I think the evidence is pretty solid that it was on for another four, even five hours after that initial loss of transponder data. So think about it, the airplane flys north about an hour, everything is normal, crew says good night to the Malaysian AirTraffic Controllers as theyre handed off to the Vietnamese AirTraffic Controllers and at that point the flight changes. The satellite pings another four or five hours. You think how far could it fly . At least 2,000, 2,500 miles maybe. Maybe. Charlie no other information other than the pings on the flight . There is a military radar, generally different from an air Traffic Control radar at an ai airfield called butterworth out by panang, and it tracked the airplane to the edge of its capability. The physics on the radar dont last much past 200 miles. So it tracked this airplane out there. And the New York Times is reporting not saying theyre wrong they reported massive altitude changes up to 45,000 feet which is hard to believe because that airplane is heavy and thats well beyond the service ceiling, then diving down to 20,000 feet and back up again. So from a scenario point of view, my personal opinion is if you look at an airplane going up and down like that, i think there was probably somebody who knew something about how to fly the airplane who turned the transponder off in the gulf of thailand, but when we see the wild altitude changes over the strait of malacca, to me, thats someone who doesnt know how to fly an airplane, trying to maintain control at night not understanding the instruments. On the other hand, if the airplane was straight and level and continued up the strait of malacca and made a southern turn out into the indian ocean, it would suggest probably a pilot or two pilots who still had control for the airplane but for some unknown reason were flying it into oblivion. Charlie do the american investigators believe they have all the information that the blaingsemalaysians have . The short answer is no. Its been a frustrating week for the United States because the malaysians have held the ntsb and have not brought them into the investigation. For whatever reason, trying to protect military capabilities of the radar, probably discontinuities between the different agencies and the malaysian government, but they have not handled this well. We finally have the ntsb and the faa participating almost as full partners. Its Getting Better but not where it needs to be. We have the ntsb involved so the professional level of investigation will be where it needs to be. Charlie do you believe the change in altitude took place . I believe it probably did. I would say its marginally above no altitude change and the reason i say that is because theres a difference between civilian air Traffic Control raiders and control radars and military radars. Military is there to prevent attack so they cant rely on the transponder saying hey, this is my altitude. So the military radar can can look in three dimensions and give us altitude and the military radar is giving us the data. So even though it was at the limit of capability, the fact we were seeing significant altitude changes that would at least suggest to me that the people flying this airplane didnt know how to do it and were disoriented. Charlie and what would do it to a plane that goes up to 43,000 or 45,000 . Well, youre just not going to climb anymore. You will have the throttles up and the airplane wont get up that high. It wasnt designed to do that. It could have zoom climbed up there but wont stay up there that long. You may have heard theories about hypoxia, about how the whole cabin could be put to sleep. How might that work . Lets say somebody takes it up to 43,000 feet and theres a switch in almost every airplanes cockpit where its pressurized and you can flip it and immediately dump all the pressurization in the cabin. If you did that at 43,000 feet, you would have about ten, 15 seconds of usable consciousness in the cabin, but the fact you do it immediately, an explosive decompression, that cuts it in half, so maybe five to ten seconds of consciousness for the people in there. Now, the pilots have oxygen masks. They reach back and pull them over their face and right there. But there are all sorts of ways we can think about this. Theyre talking about lithium ion batteries, and we cant rule them out, but i think this week and especially today were beginning to get evidence thats narrowing down the possible scenarios. Charlie how long would you believe it might be to find the wreckage if, in fact, theyre in the broad area it is now suspected the plane miff crashed . Im going to go out and say right now that if they went south into the indian ocean, we may never find that airplane. Charlie wow. And ill tell you why. If you remember the air france crash back off of brazil. Charlie yeah. We found debris five days after that mishap and human remains. We did not get the wreckage on the bottom of the ocean and the black boxes for two years. So we knew where it was floating on the ocean and it had to be somewhere just down underneath there, but it took two years and four dedicated expeditions to get that airplane. Now we dont even have the wreckage. Charlie that was a distance in the mid atlantic about two miles, was it not . It was, about 15,000 feet. You know what . The indian ocean, 10,000 to 15,000 feet. Charlie same scenario. Same scenario. The indian ocean is very, very rough. Its hard to get airplanes and ships out there because its such a remote part of the world and ocean. You know, its not like being in the gulf of thailand which would have been easier, its shallower, the seas calmer, the water is warmer and the elements arent so difficult. An open ocean, indian ocean recovery of aircraft remains, boy, that is a tough, tough nut. Charlie i assume you dont buy the idea that this plane miff landed somewhere might have landed somewhere in some remote location . No. You know, i wish. I really do. I wish with everybody. And you feel for these families, but there is just nothing to suggest that they might have. You know, hopefully lets not ever rule anything out, but its just not likely. Charlie steve, thank you so much, its been enormously helpful to have you here and trying to understand where we are in this search for the missing airliner. Thank you. Charlie Lakhdar Brahimi is here to talk about syria and the possibilities or the absence of possibilities to end the civil war. It has been more than three years since the outbreak of the war. The United Nations called it the worst humanitarian crisis in the world. More than 9 Million People have been forced from their homes. Over 140,000 have been killed. Two rounds of u. N. Brokered talks failed to produce any agreements between president assads government and the opposition. Dr. Brahimi chaired those talks. He is the United Nations and Arab League Special Envoy to syria and i am pleased to have him once again back at this table. Welcome. Thank you very much. Good to be back. Charlie ill read you what you said because when i heard it i thought, he clearly feels a commitment to these people. You said, i am very, very sorry very, very sorry, and i apologize to the Syrian People. I apologize to them that, on these tworounds, we havent helped them very much. Help us understand whos at fault and whats the problem with so many lives at stake. It is so difficult to bring the parties together on some kind of understanding. You know, in these situations, you always have, naturally, the people who are at war. They think that they are in this war because they are going to win, and for a long time they are not ready to compromise. What happens is that, at the beginning, both sides think that they are going to win, and then maybe you have one side who starts to understand that perhaps winning is not in the cards for them immediately, while the other side thinks that they are winning. What is happening now is that the government thinks that they are going to win, and soon. Charlie and soon. Oh, yes. They are making progress. You know, they are pushing the armed position in many places especially around damascus and they think that they are going to win soon. So they are not really, you know, in the business of making concessions. This is what we were facing in geneva in those meetings. The other thing is, you know, i told what we call the initiating stage, the russians and the americans who called for the negotiations on the 7th of may of last year, i told them that the two parties are not really ready for compromise, so we are going to bring them in and start, but, you know, the likelihood of us getting anywhere is limited. But the Syrian People were extremely hopeful because this is, as you said it has cost them so much. It is costing them every day so much. So there were huge exe expectat. So that is why i went out after the failure of the second round of talks and said, i apologize to the Syrian People, we have let them down. Charlie was it a mistake to have those talks . No, it was not a mistake, but, at the end of the day, we let the Syrian People down, and that is what i said. I briefed the Security Council and the General Assembly, and i said, you know, once again, that these talks havent gone anywhere and probably they are not ready to get anywhere anytime soon. Charlie when he thinks hes going to win, president assad yes. Charlie how would he define winning . For him, winning is you know, i think he said once, the proof that we have the support of our people is that it is almost three years, and they havent defeated us. Charlie he said that to me. Yeah, he said that to you. Well, he said it, again, i think, more recently. Charlie yeah. And, you know, ther they are now having negotiations or talks with people whom they had surrounded all around damascus and they think that they are making cease fires and arrangements for them. We think that this is very fragile and, you know, you are going to win today, and tomorrow things are going to change. So, you know, we think there is no military solution to this war. You know, as you remember, a year ago it was the opposition who thought they were going to win, and we told them that this was not the case, they were not going to win. Now we are telling the government you are not going to win. There is a new factor now, and that is that, you know, the term of president assad is coming to an end and, you know, there are noises out of damascus that they want organized elections. If they organize these elections, of course president assad will run and he will win and, most probably, the opposition will see no incentive in talking to his delegation. So we are really in very, very difficult situation. Charlie what concessions are you asking of the rebels . You know, i dont think im asking concessions from them. What i am telling them is that what is needed is a compromise, what is needed is a piece where there is National Reconciliation between the two sides, and the process the process of reconciliation and of making peace between all the people who are fighting one another, isolating the very, very bad guys and there is plenty of them, you know, the terrorists, the jihadists who have no time either for the government or for the opposition. So you need to isolate those guys. I mean, those are reall real i mean, bring those who are really concerned for syria together and lead the country on a new basis, what i call the new syria. You know, we are not going to go back to the syria of the father of the president or even the syria of the present president. It has to be a new syria that is built by all the syrians. Charlie can Bashar Alassad be a part of the new syria . He definitely can be a part of the building of the new syria. Whether he will be its president is a different story. The opposition are absolutely certain that he cannot be part of the new setup. Charlie where would he be if he did not have the support of iran, the coups forces and hezbollah . A lot of people say that he owes the successes to the support that he is receiving from outside. Definitely, this is making some kind of difference, but i think its not fair to say that he would have been swept away without the support. He has you know, he has an army. There have been a lot of defections from this army, but there are not enough to have the army collapse, and he has, as you said, quite a little bit of popular support. Charlie if, in fact, the rebels had gotten more support they got support from turkey, they got support from qatar, they got support from saudi arabia yes, from the west. Charlie from the west. Yeah, sure. Charlie suppose theyd gotten a lot of support and it was a united opposition, would it be a different circumstance . I think so. I think the fact that the opposition has been divided has weakened them and has probably also been a reason why a lot of people are supporting the president or have gone back to supporting the president. Definitely, if they were united, probably it would have mid a maa difference. Charlie hes probably helped, is he not, by the fact that some of the worst acts of some of the worst players on the opposition side helped him. Very much so. You know, but then the opposition will tell you theyre not part of us. Charlie yes. And that the terrorism was not there at the beginning of our movement. Terrorism has come in from outside and from inside because of the repression, because of, you know the conflict has gone on for a long time, that if it had been solved earlier, probably wouldnt have had terrorism at all. But as i told you a moment ago, terrorism is now certainly a very, very serious problem. There are organizations there that are a danger for syria and a danger for the region and farther afield. We with are like afghanistan in the end of the 90s. If you remember, when i told the Security Co