Rose we return from u. S. Politics to pakastani politics and Husain Haqqani. But i think that during the visit with president obama, mr. Sharif attempted to try to create a sort of a new basis for partnership, and the americans obliged, approved 1. 3 billion, et cetera, but is the old pattern and in that old pattern things will not move smoothly, the americans think that just by giving aid they will get pakistan to change. That wont happen. And the pakastanis think they can continue to tap the american treasury without changing, and i dont see that happening either. So what we will see is fits and starts on certain things pakastani leaders will be cooperative and others they wont. Rose we conclude this evening with pavel khodorkovsky, the son of the former russian billionaire now in prison. My father sees himself as a person who went back to russia out of principle. He knew perfectly well that he would be arrested. He sees himself as a person who went to jail because of his convictions. Whether in the longterm it is going to be perceived as one of the dissident, dissident stories is going to be up to seat. Rose u. S. Politics, pakastani politics and russian politics when we continue. Funding for charlie rose was provided by the following. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. We stand here tonight showing that it is possible to put doing your job first, to put working together first, to fight for what you believe in yet still stand by your principles and get something done for the people who elected you. Rose so we had elections this week in america, who better to interpret what it all means that john dickerson, he has some thoughts on politics. He is the chief Political Correspondent for slate magazine and political director of cbs news. Welcome. Thanks, charlie. Rose let me begin with new jersey. What is the message in that resounding victory for Chris Christie and what he said in his victory statement. Right, well the message is Chris Christie is running for president if we listen to what he said in the victory statement, what he said the old expression on that bridge, what trenton makes, the world takes well he basically says what trenton takes washington makes, look what we have done in trenton where a republican governor can do, get things done in a state full of democratics and then be reelected. And use his ratification as a ratification of his whole pitch to republicans he is saying look there is the model for what we should do nationally as a president ial candidate we should have somebody who is effective and bring both sides together but also making a pitch in the general election to voters saying this is what i can do here and i can take it to washington. Rose i can bridge the parties . Thats right. I can brink the parties and bridge the parties and get things done we look at the polls where four out of five people dont think politicians are getting anything done. Even when they try their basic task, passing a budget they cant do that and it costs the government 24 billion by shutting down the government so they cant do the basic job so people have looked for somebody who can do something and when you listen to what christi said he didnt mention one specific policy mention, he mentioned Hurricane Sandy which is a special case but he didnt mention about the item, he just said i get things done and that message, you know, they didnt want to clutter it, thats the message they are trying to get across so that thirsty country will hear something that they can take away from it. Rose nor did he suggest it was a victory for moderates. He clearly said i am a conservative. Thats right. Now rose i have to get through the republican pry may. A week ago he wouldnt have said that, a week ago he was happy to be smeared with the moderate label, now he is a conservative, but what is he really . Well, you know, he is prolife, he is against same sex marriage, he did cut taxes, he did fight the unions, so he has a list of things he can say this makes me a conservative, now what conservatives will they have two critiques one is specifics, he took the medicaid money as a part of the president s Healthcare Plan but also he has friends in the establishment, certainly in the moneyed establishment and the press likes him all of which makes those diehard conservatives suspicious of him and if you look at the Republican Party and its history since the 40s they always have been two types the establishment candidate and antiestablishment candidate he is the blipts man now we have to figure out who plays the second role. Rose and the conservatives are not happy about virginia either. They are not because what happened in virginia according to the story they are telling themselves is accuse nellie he wasnt a great candidate there was the Government Shutdown that got in his way a little bit. Which is an interesting story on the one hand you have a conservative candidate and various conservatives who helped the shutdown come to pass so they got crossways with each other but the main complaint about conservatives is that the National Republican committees didnt put the money in at the last minute as the polls were tightening and if they had, perhaps he could have pulled it off in the end, what the mcauliffe democratic pollsters and staffers say look we knew it was going to tighten because of the shape of virginia, but it was going to tighten only so much, and so that money, even if republicans had sent it wouldnt have really changed the shape of the race. We will never know. Rose but what he did do cucinelli he campaigned on obama care on the last week and that seemed to have worked for him and might portend unless the administration can build a better case it will be an issue in 2014. Is is the great debate coming out of this race because the Mcauliffe Campaign says we saw nothing in our polling that said obamacare caused any enthusiasm, increase among republicans, they had seen the race tightening a week before and they say this is all natural factors, now republicans say no the minute we turned this into a referendum on obamacare the numbers started slinking, all that is necessary yes, sir is for republicans to believe that and they will. And run on 2014, the question is you put quite rightly is a year from now is the public going to be engaged in a conversation about obamacare in the same way they are right now . It is a white hot issue, bad for the president , because of healthcare web site doesnt work and a lot of the program doesnt work. Where will we be in a year . Will it have worked itself out and people signed up and looking good and you got enrolled and have a Financial Base for it a and all of this these things. Democrats want to defend their team, wait a minute our president is getting attacked on his Healthcare Plan we dont like that so in fact support among democrats has gone up and so in the virginia race one of the things that may have happened is democrats thought, no, this is going to be a referendum on obamacare, we want to defend it so we are going to get out there and vote. Rose the president s very low Approval Ratings, dipping a little bit lower which is about where george w. Bush was near the end. Thats right. And he also so the gallup daily track a lot of people quibble about gallups method but dropped to 39 which is that important, below 40 number but also in the wall street journal, latest wall street journal poll the personal Approval Ratings were upside down for a long time people, their feelings about his job in office have been going down, but they always thought he was a pretty good guy n is a change. When in the wall street journal poll now more people dont like him than do like him and that is a problem. Because that personal likability had kind of been holding him up as much as he had been held up and once that changes that creates a whole new dynamic but how do you get out of it and there are not a lot of options to play in terms of doing things to kind of get himself. Rose . Into Immigration Reform and the things he wants to make a point in. The interesting thing about him to me, i have always been fascinated by him because of the candidate he was is when people look at his problems they tend to ask the question, is there something about him . Is he too detached . Is he not willing to play the political game . Is there a theory to explain barack obama as he approaches the sixth year of his president ial term . Well, it depends on which catch you are in. There are those who say, he is clearly a political talent in the campaign environment, but those talents dont transfer into governing, the question is, and for him, you know, there are certain parts of governing he just doesnt like, he doesnt like the schmoozing and what his defenders say he can schmooze all local long he has a Republican Party that is impervious to schmoozing. Rose john boehner played golf with him several days a week and if he couldnt control the tea party he had no deal to make. Thats exactly right. And in a sense that argument is ratified by the recent shutdown because you had the party themselves saying to their Tea Party Caucus this is madness, you are killing our best issue, the attacks on obamacare by creating a diversionary action over here that the country doesnt like. So if the republicans couldnt even control their own base how is the president ever going to deal with them . And so there is some support for that. Having said that you talked to the chiefs of staff of previous administration, you talk to even some people who have been in this Obama Administration, and they do, they do cite a gap between his intel elect the and that sort of the force that can just kind of get things done that makes its own weather that happens in leadership where they thought there was no exit and then the person find one and it is kind of a mushy quality of leadership that is hard to put your finger on but often sounds like people are making it up but when you do interviews and talk to people about his leadership style there is that missing piece and people still havent come up with a way to exactly define it but that is there. Rose and you also have from the former secretary of state, Hillary Clinton, the beginnings of some things that she talked about as she goes around the country, one being common ground. Yes, common frowned. Well it will be interesting to see and Chris Christie obviously ran on common ground. Rose thats right. The reason it is so interesting to define what the challenges are for barack obama is what does that tell us about the person who is going to replace him . What talent, what skills are needed by the next person to fix the problems that the president maybe didnt solve. You know, you can argue with this president that healthcare he sort of rammed it through with his stimulus panel and, package and maybe this notion of a people who can bring people in a room and reason together it just isnt possible in politics. Rose certain kinds of people do who do not have an instinct for compromise. There is no longer an overlap between conservatives and liberals in the two parties. They are just this far apart. Given that is the situation, a person who promises to reason together or as the president did when he ran to kind of listen to both side and come to a common understanding, that just doesnt it is unrealistic so what do we think about with Hillary Clinton and you hear her husband talking about this too and one of the most interesting things is when bill clinton wrote a review on lbj it was like a letter to obama saying, listen, read this book, take the lessons of working together. Now a lot of the president s defenders would say again that was a different world back then. Rose different congress. But Hillary Clinton is going to run on a similar message that Chris Christie is going to run on which i can get it done by knowing how to bring people together and the implicit criticism there is that this president didnt,. Rose and that they Hillary Clinton can argue and governor christie can argument, we have had a different kind of experience in terms of management and in terms of execution. Yeah. Thats right. Now the question then will be, Chris Christie will say, okay i have done things as a governor and executed x, y and z ways where does Hillary Clinton get the execution piece . You can talk about her time as secretary of state, but then that gets complicated because, you know, chris, Chris Christie can talk about taxes and thing that affect people in their daily lives, Hillary Clinton has done a lot of extraordinary things but they are a little mushier in the Foreign Policy context and be interesting if they faceoff against each other how they will debate that out and how she will talk about her executive talents in an area that is a little more detached from people. Rose Hillary Clinton said i could be the first woman to be president and governor christie, what will you be . John dickerson, thank you, pleasure to have you. John dickerson from slate and from cbs news. Back in a moment. Rose Husain Haqqani is here, the former pakastani ambassador to the United States, tensions are high today between pakistan and urban, is after a drone attack killed a taliban leader, the strike came on the eve of peace talks between the pakastani government and the pakastani taliban, pakistans interior my minister says the attack murdered the hope and progress for peace in the region. On monday, a ruling pakastani party voted to block nato supply lines november 20th if u. S. Drones persist, pakistan Prime Minister sharif met with president obama in washington last month to talk about operation between the two an advisor to sharif and with a new book, magnificent delusions, i am pleased to have him back at this table. Welcome. Pleasure being here, charlie. Rose there is so much to talk about. Lets begin by talking about this drone attack in yemen. How significant was this killing . Well, massoud was the leader of the pakastani taliban, his group was put on americas high value target list at pakistans explicit request. Rose right. He was responsible for killings of hundreds of pakastanis if not thousands, attacks on pakistans intelligence, attacks on pakistans army, and also he was partly responsible for the attack on the cia camp across the border in khost, if you remember, where seven cia officials died so in context of the war against terrorism i think the United States was right in taking him out. And there is no evidence that there was an agreement between pakistan and massoud on talks. He had said yes, we want to have talks but always made it conditional, so as i see it, the reaction by some people in pakistan essentially reflects what i call the pakastani psychosis, people want terrorism to go away, but they dont want to fight it, and the leaders are too weak to take responsibility for fighting the bad guys, and instead trying to shift plame on the United States all the time. Rose so are you prepared to say that you think the pakastani government, no matter how much they protest are happy to see the u. S. Use drones if, in fact, they wipe out people they think might threaten the state . Absolutely, i think that pakistans policy on the drones has always been at two different levels, on the one hand they say we dont like the drone strikes but the pakastani Ministry Announced the casualties on drones was only 67, that is the official count. That totally belies the numbers that you read in the press and that are bandied about critics of the drones, that is not to say that americas drone policy is correct, all i am saying is that pakistans attitude towards drones is definitely political. They want extremists and terrorists to be eliminated but because pakistan makes a distinction between good taliban and bad taliban, taliban that are aligned with its regional objectives and those who are opposed to them, they often make a distinction also in terms of their reaction, the guise fighting the military is good the guys cooperating with pakistans military objectives in afghanistan, their elimination is bad. Rose do you believe that there will be significant negotiations between taliban and the government of pakistan and also the Afghan Taliban and the government . Charlie, if you recall, some months ago, i actually wrote an op ed in the New York Times in which i said dont talk to the taliban and here is my reasoning for it. Look, negotiations take place when people have some common ground. The taliban want and eighth century world and whoever is talking to them is definitely from a different century. They have historically always used negotiations to buy time. They believe that time is on their side. There is a maxim of the taliban, americas have the watches we have the time. Americans have the watches and we have the time. We have the time. I am not against negotiations, per se but what are the borne educations going to be about . They are going to be about reinstalling the taliban into power and giving them a shake in afghanistan and give them a shake in power in pakistan, i dont think the negotiations will go anywhere. The taliban if they step the constitutions of afghanistan and pakistan respectively and want to moderate their stance and become political actors rather than militants and terrorists, then there is some room for negotiations, i dont think we are there yet. Rose you assess the sharif government for me. Well, look, sharif is a conservative in the pakastani political context, he was a prod