Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. The late, great late nora ever frons says i try to write parts for women for women that are actually that interesting. She has done some of that. Her work brings to light the confusion, quantity disand excitement of being a young woman. She catapulted to success as creator and star of the hbo program girls, here is a look. Are you okay . You and me . Yeah. Are you serious . Yeah. Are we like less close now . Of course not, we are not less close. I mean you moved out, so people dont live here anymore they are a little less close but not less close than that. Maybe we need to work harder and make plans for just the two of us. Well i was working and if i am not grumpy, i am writing and try calling you a lot last week. And i told you i have a third fulltime job which is taking care of adam, im sorry. I am having a really hard time right now. I have no job, no boyfriend, i am starting to feel like i have no you. That is not true, okay . I am right here. Okay. Rose the Second Season of girls begins this sunday, january 13, i am pleased to have lena dunham at the table for the first time, welcome. Thank you so much for having me. It is very exciting, looking around at the studio, well, this is where the magic happens. Rose we hope. You create magic too, by the way. Thank you so much. Rose how would you define what you do . I guess i would define what i do generally outside of girls as i write and direct film and Television Shows that that have Strong Female protagonists and are aimed at illuminating the Human Experience but more specifically what it feels like to be a young woman in america right now. Rose and how does it feel to be a young woman in america right now . Well, you know rose it depends on the young woman . It depending on the young woman and one thing that is a challenge, with the title of girls, they sense we are trying to speak for every woman and obviously i am very specific, you know, i was raised in new york, i went to liberal arts college, i am a democrat, i no longer am a vegan but once was, there is a lot of i think that i am a specific as any female is and therefore trying i think one of the problems about entertainment for women up to this point is people trying to speak universally to an audience that is just as complex as men are, and so rose and the audience, i mean the women that you represent, and through your expression of character and story are what age 24, five, 26 . Characters range from 21 to 33 but the four main girls, three of them are currently 24 and one is 21. Rose and do you think it has been such a surprise hit because, a, it is written good and acted well and it is directed well, because there was a hunger for somebody somewhere in media to tell my story . I think that i did feel a feeling when i was, there was this kind of an amazing, almost electric sense when i was first making girls that it was right when bridesmaids was coming out, when the new girl was coming out and it felt like there was a more mass culture desire for entertainment aimed at women that wasnt just sort of, you know, fantasy kitchens and sassy divorces, it was more than all of that so i really felt like girls came along and i think it was a really right place at the right time thing in that both in that audiences were making their hunger for that clearer and more fed up, female audiences but also people who would watch girls, audiences in girl were making it clear they wanted that entertainment for women wasnt just a fad, and i think the networks and movie studios were hearing that in a totally other way, and i work at hbo which is has always been i would argue, not to sound like a bit of a cult test, a bit ahead of the curve. Which is a huge touchstone for women in entertainment. Rose lets talk a lot about this. Let me see how you got here. You grew up in new york. Uhhuh. Your mother is a photographer and your father is a painter. Yep. Rose they are both artists. Yes, when i said he was a painter i had to clarify because people assumed he painted houses and or chairs. Rose and their influence on this series is profound because of their influence on you . Yes. I would say that although i am i am playing a character who had a lot of biographical details that differ from mine, she is from michigan and a contentious relationship with parents who dont understand her, i have been to michigan once and my parents understand me a little too much but my parents sort of firm belief that selfexpression was like the holy grail of life and something hard not to soak up. Rose you also hung out with the adults. A lot. I mean,. Rose so did i. Did you . Rose oh, sure, yeah, i had to because my parents had a Country Store which therefore the only people that inhabited the Country Store were adults. You have the kind of voice that i imagined belongs to someone who was raised in a very nice Country Store. Rose how is that . It kind of has a little to it, like a slight southern gentleman quality you cant quite pinpoint, i am ram blink but it is a sensation i have. Rose so you grew up in that environment . Uhhuh. Rose and went to oakland college. I went to owner land and owner land was my ideal college, i didnt get in on the first try and i got my only fourpoint to the gpa. Rose and went back to owner land. And check it out and promptly dropped by gpa by more points than i would like to share here. Rose when did you decide this is what i want to do . I want to act, i want to tell stories . I always i always loved i was always very h enamored of acting but didnt think it was a job i would be given. If that makes sense. Rose because . Because even as a young girl i didnt think i would cast as the edge knew and not. Cast as the obese nanny and there were not it is funny and sounds like insane to say this about school plays but there werent parts and i remember preparing so hard for an audition for alice in wonderland and being cast as a bouncing ball. Rose so once you had the time, though, to create things, did you immediately say there has to be a place for me . I will create a place maybe because i still want to act . Well, you know, it is funny when i started writing films and i was making them on a very lowbudget i thought the character is based on all of i will play until really good. Rose a real actor. A real actor will come along and replace me, it is funny when hbo came knocking i definitely had access to a real actor and suddenly i didnt want them, i had real actors around me and suddenly i thought it was the first time i was forced to confront acting was something i had more than a passing desire to do. Rose there was satisfaction, psychic income and all of that. Exactly. And so what was the first thing you did . Short films . I made short films, i made web shows, i made two different webster irs, which was the first thing that made me think of writing in an episodic way, and a short feature called creative short fiction and i met so many people. A festival down in austin. Exactly, where that has been very supportive of me and the first season of girls all premiered. Rose right. So and then i made the movie tiny furniture and that was sort of the thing that broke everything opened and i had created nonfiction, it was funny, tiny furnish imhur is kind of like the breakthrough because it is what got me, gave me the chance. Rose paid attention . Gave me a chance to work, but when i created nonfiction gave me access to the collaborators and that there was an actual sense of a chance for me, and it was a short feature no one will watch. Rose are you surprised by the success . Yes. Rose are you really . I mean, i think we all have fantasies that our work will be lauded in a way we all secretly think it deserves to be. Rose because you work on it believing in it. Yes and you have to, and i guess there are people who are riddled with selfdoubt and on occasion i am one of those people but i think that you need to at your core, i mean it is so weird, making a movie, any kind of art really, it is like, being the captain of this crazy sinking ship, i cant believe all of these people trust me, i dont know how to move the steering wheel, what is the wheel on the boat. Rose what is the sail for . Exactly. But you need at your core believe you are taking people somewhere good so you hope for this kind of reaction but i think i am practical and not a window shopper, i have always kept my dreams pretty manageable. My dad has this expression, he says love the possible and usually used in response to my mom wanting to buy real estate that is way out side of our purr view and i have really taken it with me. Rose that is a great expression, love the possible imagine the impossible and love the possible. I like the charlie rose amendment to it. Rose i will take it. So that is season one behind you. Yes. Rose here are some of the things people ask about. How about writing males into this . I dont write males differently than i write females. Rose meaning that it is is same thing, you write what you know about an individual . Yes, i write what i know about an individual. Rose character. Maybe when the male characters are a little more observed and less inhabited because i have spent so much time in my own female head but i have not had you know, when i write, i try to write a sympathetic of a man ditching a girl that he doesnt necessarily want a relationship with, but i have only been the girl, so i do my best to make it feel expansive and generous. Rose what about the first year would you change . , you know, i am not a big love the possible person f i am not a i are gres receive person. Rose one person said you dont do do overs. My mom is such a regress person, she is just, it is constantly like i ordered the wrong thing at dinner, i shouldnt have worn those boots and she felt, it was a little sobering for me so i tried to stay chipper about what has happened, maybe to my own detriment, but, you know, the first season i think most of the stuff that i change was not what appeared on the screen because i think we needed all of it to understand what the rules of this world were, you know, there is, there are a few storylines that work better than others, there are moments that didnt feel completely things that felt broad or comic in the wrong way but we needed to try that to understand what we needed to touch all the lulls and understand what this space had in store for us. But i think it is really intense to be thrust into a managerial position, in what feels like slightly before my time, so i think rose you can be assured it is before your time. So my main regrets have to do with just wanting just thinking that i could have handled things differently. I can be both i can be both sensitive and bullheaded and it is an odd combination so i am learning more and more to work with a team, especially because i come from, you know, a house where two artists worked alone in their studios and also come from independent film where the biggest crew i worked with was seven people so that was definitely a learning curve. Rose let competent talk about the characters, hanna is you, of course. Uhhuh. Rose describe hanna. Hanna is i would say sweetest rose loving it . Loving it. The sweetest words i can use to describe hanna would be sort of happen less, hal, hapless anxiety ridden. Rose that doesnt sound like you. Hanna is the most, it is weird sea mix of the most anxious, selfconscious, unpredictive parts of myself, and the parts that feel the most free to express themselves and the most and feel they have the right to do whatever they want, it is nun any because i both find than na, i mean she can be painful to play because i always say she has two choices in front of her, the right one and the wrong 1 and 1 is labeled right 1 and 1 is labeled wrong one and she will think about it po for a long time and choose the wrong one so that can be a challenge to play sympathetically but i learn from her. He is so she cannot tell a lie, she can not betray herself, she, you know, has a genuine desire to make people around her feel good. Rose you said i think this is about hanna you said in writing if i feel there is something shameful about something or myself, i want to expose it. Yeah. Rose i want to get it out there and ripoff and make it transparent. Yes. I think that is what always comforted me and loved and responded to in film and tv and what i have always rose authenticity yes, authenticity and also a sensation that the work is making us feel a little less alone in our own heads. Rose and marnie . It is funny because they is super fucially the easiest to describe, she is type a, she is beautiful, she is productive, she is seductive, but rose is she all you would want to be . I think she is i think that she is, if you were to see all the adjective written down on paper, yes, i would choose that one but they is the most tortured because she doesnt leave any room for improvisation, so one aspect of her day is off, she is utterly thrown by it and not prepared to have any kind of confusing emotions so like rose because they is so good, i mean she has all of these assets. Yes. Rose that work for her, all of those things you just said that there is no room in a sense to be different . Yeah. Rose she never had to be different. Yeah. Rose she never had to rely on her own wits or skills or the ability to change. No. Rose because it wasnt necessary . Yeah. And i think that a little bit, i mean, she has a little bit of what i call pretty girl syndrome her life is sort of like laid out for her, so her she has no, no problem solving skills but hyperspecific. And allison is like shockingly, when you meet her, so hardworking and so well adjusted she is just a walking delight but it is interesting because allison, has had this, when i first cast her, i sort of i told her this before, i was like, do i really i mean she just gotten out of yale and gorgeous and wants to be an actress and i cast her, you know, a month out of college and i said to her you know what i was, first i was resistant to being one of the contributors to the Allison Williams success story, i cant help it, in high school, i would have heid you for reasons that you cant control, and now he is one of my favorite people on earth. Rose then there is s soshanna. Yes who was initially not supposed to be well, i am half jew on the show, i am a half jew in life so i decided i would represent the the bi religious. Rose one and a half. But me is full jew, and she was initially supposed to be this sort of character who bopped in illuminated the difference between our new york and, you know, ran off to go drink another cosmo, so she was not supposed to be a recurring character but now she plays it so beautifully she became one and a little younger than the other girls and a little more innocent and outwardl liam wishes and really fun to write. She talks very fast. Rose what do you not have that you want . Great question. I feel so lucky in in way, it is almost st stupid because i think about it all day, kind of thanksgiving for me, but i feel like i am still working on the balance of the whole thing, a lot has happened quickly and so i dont want to be the person who sort of disappears underground, and their friends think we shouldnt invite her to the dinner party. Rose of course she is too and then start saying you have changed although you havent changed but they have changed in their reaction to you. Yes. And it is a challenge i think for me what i am striving for, and i burn the candle at both end and get lots of colds so i really rose really rose what happens when you burn the candle at both end. I would like to say i burn the candles burned at both ends. Rose and then you go out on the town. But alas it is a stuffy nose, i feel i could have a better understanding of when work stops and life begins, and i think it is a frustrating thing. Rose how do you learn that . I think it is learned with time and things learned with time are so annoying. Rose patience is not a virtue. No, i want to learn everything now. Rose i do too. So then these four characters, it is going to change in what way in year two . Well, in year two, i think the first year just on a basic level about writing tv, the first year you have to establish all of the rules and understand who these characters are and really give people, i mean you have ten episodes on hbo to show people who they are and what their own personal value systems are and then once you have made that super clear you can deviate and tha that is so fun because e most fun in the world is show acting counter to their own beliefs, or acting delusionly in the name of those beliefs so season 2 w we get to create all new kind of drama. Rose you said a lot of this is informed by isolation that you had. Yeah. Rose you grew up in a family that took you with them so you had exposure at Art Galleries and all of the openings that they were a part of. 02 yeah. Rose you were in the adult who world but there was isolation and a feeling of a loanness. I was so frustrated i loved my parents so much and loved spending time with them but there was this feeling that, you know, you guys can do all of these adult things and i have to go off to school with all of these kids i dont understand and they dont understand me and i dont feel connected and i dont feel like i am in my body or life here, it is funny when i look back on school, college is different but when i look at age kindergarten through 12th grade despite Great Teachers and great educational moments it is like i cant believe i spent that many hours in school considering how alone and peculiar it made me feel. Rose you went through that . Yes. Rose were yo were you ever insecure or always confident . I think that i i think i was confident in that, but i was also defensive because thats the child reaction, and so i think sometimes i look back and think it was just as much my fault i didnt haxn friends whn i was little as anyone elses, i was sort of keeping myself in this strange bubble where, you know, i sit alone in class and read the Audrey Hepburn biography inside my math notebook and didnt feel close to my teachers because i wasnt interested in what they were talking about. Rose what were you interested in . I was interested in reading. Rose story telling. Story telling, i liked to read and write and play games and i liked animals, anything that allowed me to sort of play a role, i liked animals because i liked being the boss of a lot of creatures and telling them what to do. I liked reading because it took me to new places. I was into historical fiction and went into a writing historical fiction phase but i didnt have the Fact Checking know how. So you had a sensational year and get to know people who call you up and want to have lunch like the late nora ephron. Yes. Rose what do they say . They say you have done something remarkable and i just want to that is sort of the gist of it. Nora did this thing i now know is vintage nora writing an email saying i loved your movie, i just wanted you to know that and lets have a lunch some time. Rose a collector of people. And i talked to so many young women who were championed by her and the thing that is so impressive to me is when people do things they dont have to. It is like nora was at a place where they she could have gotten, eating ravioli for the rest of her life, but she had this incredible desire to keep learning and amassing knowledge and friends. Rose what did this relationship do for you . Other than give you a sense of pride and inspiration . I mean, i think having a role model of somebody who has had, i mean nora was a mother and writer and a film maker and a i didnt critic of culture, politically vocal, seeing how someone sustains that over a lifetime. Rose and a ferocious friend too. And one of the most i know she is very fond of you and it is one of the most wonderful things you can one of the most generous things people can do is live well in front of you. Rose how much jealousy is there about your success . It is funny i am not i am bad at telling when people are drunk or jealous, and i feel as though people have been really kind, but you definitely feel the shift, it is almost like, you know, i never want to complain because i have the luckiest job in the world but there is a complicated social thing that happens which is like people stop at first there is just a wealth of congratulations and a wealth of i am so proud of you and then like the morning of the Golden Globes not like i was getting a million texts because well this is what lenas life is good things happen to her and i am sure she is off celebrating on angelina. Mr. Contreras lys yacht so it is a funny feeling. Rose with Leonardo Dicaprio caprio. And that was not the reality i was you everything in my bed worrying i was allergic to the wallpaper. Rose people but one stroke of luck could be me . I could have been her, i know everything she knows, i have every skill she has but she had a break. Well, it is so funny because i feel like that is sort of the crux of most of the most of the distaste that people have had for me, and maybe that you, again you never want to subject to try to understand why anyone dislakes you, it is their right rose do you feel it . I mean there is definitely more there was too much sort of negative attention surrounding the positive attention for me to totally ignore it. Rose what was the negative . Categorize the negative. I think that the show, there was a lot of hype before it came out and i understand someone who used to i used to have that feeling if everybody likes a band then i dont want to like it, i am over that now but it was definitely rose if everybody likes it, i dont want to belong. Exactly so i think there was this sort of feel the show was over hyped in its birth. Rose it is not that good, folks . Exactly, exactly, and i think people had, you know, strong reactions to the characters and feeling the characters were unlikeable, the socioeconomic breakdown of the show and it is funny because i understand it all, there is no criticism that i would go, you are out of your mind, i just want to keep making it so i am a big i am so glad what is so amazing about the internet age we can all find what you want to see and if you cant find it you can make it. Exactly. Thats the more important thing. Yeah. So i have never had rose everybody has the capacity to do what i do here, maybe only one person will watch it but they have the gas to do it. Exactly. So i think when people, i think there was a sensation that people had that was like any of us could have written this show about our four friends hanging around and if we had the proper publicity and advertising support. Rose . It is funny. Rose not talent but something else. My mom told me this funny story where there was a woman, and he mom takes photos of little dolls and setups and the art world is a small world but inside of it she has had a great career and been able to support herself and she one time a woman, she overheard that a woman who she vaguely knew had said i could have been lori if i hadnt had children and she was like i am lori simmons and i did have children. Rose yes. Zero so there is always a sense the world has fed you in some, you know, unexplainable way. Rose are you an exhibitionist . I dont think about myself that way, but if someone were to argue it based on seeing the show and seeing that i am naked, you know, more regularly than a lot of women are on television, people who have more traditional rose because of the character or you like it, it is kind of like it or not guilty at this i think it is character based and wanting to depict sex and bodies in a way that has that is extremely realistic and unabashed and healthy but i also think that if i difficult, i would, if i didnt i have too low a threshold for discomport to write in something i hate doing all the time. Rose so you do it because it fits and you enjoy it . I do it because it fits and i enjoy it wha and what i like, wl the is something a lot of people wont understand because not that many people get named naked on tv. Rose there is something vaguely satisfying but i will admit it, very penetrating eyes, but so i have to tell you everything i feel, but i feel like there is some satisfaction to watching people sort of squirm and think that sort of you cant do that on television feeling is definitely is a little bit of a high. Rose so it is a turn on to know they are saying you cant be doing this. Yes. I have an authority problem. Rose and is there any chance hanna this year in this season will say i tried to lose weight and she said no because i decided to have other concerns. And it is hot that being healthy cant coexist with being creative, it is not like you have to sit around and sit nine pizza hut pizzas. Rose you not unhappy are you. No, i think i am really happy, i mean, you know, i can be anxious but really. Rose this is about whether yes, totally. Adjust like every day anxiety i see. Jeff has a funny line, his friend said this, if you are working out, you cant work on your jokes. And it is like, i didnt phrase it perfectly but that is his rebuttal to buff comedians. Rose what influence does he have . Because he gave you notes and other things . A huge influence, anybody who works with him who says he is so generous and tireless and so skilled, and also so good, i think so many talented people have trouble letting somebody else express themselves without major interference and judd, you know, judd gives notes but he doesnt try to mold anyone into his own voice, he is a really, clear and wonderful about the fact he is there to support, but also when he has a note, i listen. Rose thank you very much. Thank you so much. It is such an honor. Rose a pleasure. Girls starts january 13th that is sunday on hbo. Back in a moment. Stay with us. Nonnations for the Academy Awards were announced yesterday morning from los angeles, Steven Spielbergs lincoln was leader of the pack, life of pi was a close second, it received 11 nominations including best picture, best director, tied for third was Tom Hooper Les miserables and Silver Linings playbook. And now a new book, do the movies have a future, tony scott of the new york times, dana stevens of slate and Annette Insdorf the director of film studies at columbia, and graduate film program there, i am pleased to have all of them here at this table right after we heard the nomination this morning, i think the Biggest Surprise was captain bigelow didnt get a nomination for zero dark thirty. That was a big surprise. I think you know that although that is a movie that has been hamstrung a little bit by the controversy that has been gathering around it, having rose how would you define the controversy . Well, this is a movie a that on the one hand makes certain claims towards being, you know, not absolutely 100 percent literal but very journalistically accurate portrayal of the last ten years of the war on terror, from september 11th to the rose what you are saying is in particular, there are sequences of torture or water boarding that seem to imply that these techniques of interrogation produced some good intelligence, and that, i think, has made some people very, very upset. Some people i think have bonn so far to say that the movie glor the guys or apologizes for torture which i dont think is true. But it put itself in the middle of what is still a very raw political debate about the conduct of the war on terror during th the administration. I think to conflate something that happened in another interrogation session with this one, in other words there was a guy who provided scraps of information that led to the courier who was subjected to enhanced interrogation, he was beaten up, in he was put in a box, he was denied sleep, but he was not water boarded, and what they did was to bring something in from another interrogation in order to have is a unified narrative that led directly from those sessions to the night of the raid, so you cant at the same time claim the authority of fact and the license of film. Rose if you were voting would you have nominated captain bigelow . Yes, absolutely and i think it is a great movie despite what i just said. Amazingly directed movie. Thinking of best director you look at whatever you think of the politics of the story of this film it is an extraordinary piece of direction, there are good performances and a good script, but just as sheer film making technique and mastery of a complicated story da high grade which is what 25 minutes, it is astounding piece of film, absolutely. Rose 25 minutes, took 40 minutes. It is virtuoso film making and those not one to say one was robbed, because it all takes place to some sort of calculus we would say captain bigelow was some way robbed, th the best director no, maam neegz were an expacks of the of the best picture category, Silver Linings and ben for piece of the southern wild would not have gotten on there except for the expansion of that category. And the fact that category of best picture is almost twice as big as that of best director which means someone got robbed. Rose they have nine nominations for best picture. If we placed this in perspective who did the nominating of the five directors, right . I check and you know how many, the Directors Branch of the academy, how many messages there are . 371 people did these nominations. It is not just captain bigelow, i was surprised ben affleck was not nominated. Rose we all would have nominated for best director ben affleck. We prove he directed three features and gets better and better, Quentin Tarantino as well. When i compared them to the Directors Guild nominations addressed two days ago and have 15,000 members voting perhaps a better crosssection of the industry, well, it was spielberg and ang lee, but they nominated tom hooper, and excuse me i just blanked for a second i had it in my head a second ago, ben affleck and captain bigelow, so what happened was that excellent but ben assign lynn and michael hanukkah cannot be crying these two wonderful directors, one who first time made a feature for 1. 8 million in new orleans and michael hanukkah considered one of the greatest directors in the world, i am pleased they are in there but i am shocked a film like argo or zero dark 30 which earned many other nominations managed to leave out the director which preferred the ones we just acknowledged. Rose how about the actress everybody from 85yearold to yes, the widest range ever between two nominees. Rose so how does this shape up and the early choices that may very well be i would love it to be for apower. Amour. Rose you think the she is one of the favorites. Well, amour is more than i would have expected from the academy. I wouldnt expect them to pop that knowing what the subject matter is and it is about an old woman being shepherded to her death by her husband and people sat down wit and gave it their attention. And i have to say it is a big surprise, and the welcome one that i mean it had the best Foreign Language film nomination from austria but it really broke out of that category into four others, into screen play director picture, and when was the last time that a foreign film got this far in the oscars. Life is beautiful. Can i just say a word for Jessica Chastain, who is becoming our greatest, i dont know how old she is but like five movies last year, she can do anything. Anything from the help. In the help she was like a Marilyn Monroe type of southern, you know, flight at this sexy woman and she was great, and what is wonderful about this performance is that she is a woman, very womanly and also tough at nails, a killer and that keeps throwing you off, i mean, you keep trying to understand her, and rose and confident. And you never really understand her and right down to the last shot, which is very mysterious. Rose and the interesting question is whether she is, in fact, modeled after a character that played the role that is suggested in this movie and you assume that there is somebody that may not look like Jessica Chastain but sod of the same qualities as far as the makeup that presence and temperament. Obsessive. Rose so that is two. Wallace. Am i pronouncing it right . She is i will say by the way everyone in the cast as far as i understand in southern royal was nonprofessional, which right away might push ben zeitlin into consideration for best picture. I dont think she will win but i will put a good word for naomi watts. She offers such a harrowing and wrenching performance and doing superb work for at least a decade and i believe that she has a very good shot of winning this too. I guess that leaves jennifer lawrencely put in a world for jennifer lawrence, a wonderful actress of great kind of range and resilience, i really liked her in the hunger games, she was amazing in winters bone, that was her real breakout and i think what she does in Silver Linings playbook is the most underwritten and most conventional character in the movie, the kind of kookie love interest, she makes this an interesting, complex dark, unpredictable character and i think does a lot to make the movie work. I know some dont agree that it does work. I dont think any of it works but i would go down on my knees before i the think she is absolutely remarkable looking as well as a great talent. So if she does it will be fine. Rose you dont like the movie but like her. I like her, i dont know any man who doesnt not like her. And she became a movie star in the hunger grapes a promising young actress to a movie star, it is great to see what she does. Rose best actress should we say anything other than daniel daylewis is nominated and therefore. When he wins i wont say if, he will become the first actor in Academy History to win three best actor awards because all of the others who had multiple wins it has been a combination of supporting and best. So that will be history making. Rose is he by definition now the greatest act for of his definition . Well i think, yes, by the way a buffalo way of putting it was tony kushner at the film critic awards when he was accepting his award for screen writing for lincoln, he turned to the actor and said, i can only describe your performance as daniel daylewis ian and what he meant was, he is one of a kind. Rose yes. You have to feel bad because the other actors in this category are some, quite i thought Denzel Washington, i didnt think it was a great movie but i thought his performance the way he played this really kind of damaged, angry rose . He was drunk. It is a movie about lying. Any high functioning alcoholic has to lie constantly and i thought Denzel Washington really got that. Up to the very end. So if daylewis werent there Denzel Washington might have won. Rose his third time, isnt it . Has he won two or not . One best actor and one supporting. Training day. Rose let me talk about supporting actor, christopher waltz is there, i do not de niro is there, hoffman is there, and who else. Tommy lee jones, and i thought he was rivetting. And alan arkin lets not forget. In argo. Rose but if there is all previous winners, by the way. Rose yes, exactly. If there is sort of a tide that rolls and the tide is lincoln he may on the other hand, if there is kind of a wavelet for Silver Lining playbook which is in all of the four categories, that is as well as a bunch of others that could carry because this has been seen as kind of a comeback roll. Rose best supporting actor it django wins anything it may be he really does honestly any one of these best supporting actor nominees i think would make a perfectly likely and acceptable winner, never all great and many like Robert De Niro are unexpectedly great, he may have, he might have not been there for in the way he really is present on screen. Philip seymou philip seymourh walk master and phoenix unstable explore toifer quality and you didnt know where they were going to go, it was almost frightening how free ranging those assistance were and i cant imagine that any two actors doing what they did, so rose . What you said about daniel daylewis before i would say phillip, they were the second greatest actor. Rose and certainly best supporting actor. Lets talk about lincoln for a second. What was the genius of spielberg in that movie . I mean it has an intimacy, it is an inside film, it is not glorious battle scenes, it is one month. It is not a political process. Rose it is not david lean. So what is is the gene use of it . I think the gene use of the movie is a kind of, an amazing interplay between Tony Kirschners script he is one of the most brilliantly verbal writers in any media, he can write speeches and arguments and conversations and spielberg is a malls search of a kind of visual impactful, you know, just making the pictures tell the story and deliver the emotions and i think those things Work Together, so that while it was, you know, sometimes very, very talkie and almost very stagy it also has the spielberg moments where it delivered the feeling with enormous power and force, and i think those things Work Together zero so you had sort of the cerebral Tony Kirschner side and the spielberg side working to the. Rose i loved how he approached this film, meeting with the lincoln scholars and talking about lincoln and then convincing, then convincing daniel daylewis to do it and changing the script he sent him, starting over and all of that. Some of the historians have nitpicked at small things, but when you get rid of those it in picks there is a great film there and i think that what they dont want to admit and real grudgingly admit this is not only a good historical movie it is a contribution to historical understanding of what happened. Rose . Not part of popular entertainment. In part because the actor understood voice, i mean one of the amazing acting and instincts he had was to go find what the voice might have sounded hike. And yet he has the power when he needs the power. I mean a the moment at the end where he rises up and demands they give it. And one thing, i love about this movie, especially coming out in such a politically intense year, was that it suggested that political process in a democracy can generate enormous drama and suspense that there are real things at stake, principles and also lives and that the kind of the nittygritty of legislative work is interesting and dramatic. It came out of the election too which at was brilliant marketing. The day before. Rose you say david is i dont think spielberg, correct me if i am wrong has ever worked indoors. Rose that is my point. Onset, onset as much as this, and that is hard for a guy who is kinetic the way as you are saying as he is, and i think he really got good at moving the camera around like in all of the legislative scenes and all of that is intensely dramatic and you saw the class there as director and stuck to kirschners script and really honored it and it is a true collaboration just as mark bowl and Catherine Bigelow are a true collaboration i can do my antitourist think, either of those movies. Rose the collaboration between the two of them is, clearly is between steve and tony, but also catherine and mark, i mean, mackerel informed that film by the sort of because he is a former reporter, what he went to find in terms of the experiences and then figured out how to make a movie out of those experiences in a driving narrative, you know, and they chose they had to change it after the assassination, after the killing of osama bin laden. Yes, this he threw out the, out the earlier movie and started all over. Rose so tell me about ang lee and what you think of this movie. I admire ang lee greatly and i dont think i would have put it on the best film of the years myself but it is technically very invasive like pi and i think it was one of the few occasions in the past few years with the wave of 3d films that it actually took me some place i wasnt expecting him to take it what he did with High Definition and the different textures of movement of water on the screen, it is an incredible looking film. Rose tell me what it was you saw in the beast of the southern i saw an Extraordinary Energy and imaginative freedom, one thing, because it is an independent movie, it is small scale, you know, lowbudget, kind of seat of the pants production and so many of the movies that have come out recently that fit that template are very kind of somber and grim and kind of literally realistic and about sort of the misery and struggle of people in trouble and this one was stomach cal and so imagine if it had all of that kind of, you know, social conscience and neorealistic exploration but also this sense of really the only word i have is magic, and it went it kind of invented this world and got so wonderfully inside the consciousness of this child, it remind med of the first time i ever read huckleberry finn, just the childs perception assort of wise and also innocent and organizing how the world looks and how it might be and how you want it to be and taking terrible tragedy and deprivation and disaster and turning it into something that was joyful and just it blew my mind, i have seen it a bunch of times and it doesnt lose anything. Rose how many times. Four or five. Can i on the wild. I know there are other critics and viewers who agree with in, i felt all of that trying to happen and trying to do all of that and i admired the utopian vision that brought it it about and the actors helped build the set and the story creation is great but i found it so shapeless and bludgeoned by the magic realism and over blown poetry of the voiceover, the girls voiceover never convinced me it felt like a little girl reading something put in the girls hand she had a great physical presence just being herself, but there was something about the verbosity of that heavy voice over that never, ever convinced competent and it went from one emotional high point to the next without any kind of narrative tissue inbetween. I understand what you are saying but her voice over reminded me of another film extremely stylized and that was days of heaven, and in both cases i can feel the hand of the director, the writer director so to speak, but there is something beautifully about that voice with its, you know, rather lofty terms sometimes she says she wants to be coherent at one point and no a little girl wouldnt say that but it worked in a certain way and the industry individualness of her imagination and the resiliency somehow carried through for me both in terms of the words and images. As a comparison i feel like she understood the words she was saying i am not sure she did. Rose let me sum up what is the name of your book again. To the, do the movies have a future. Rose thats what i thought. Or else we dont, by the way. Rose so what is your point . My point, i was not attacking the movies, i was saying the movies rose do they have a future because of the business of movies . It is the big six studios which i think are burr suing a destructive Business Model and as we have said earlier, you know, filling the theaters with Market Driven decisions and until that magical period starting september 15th when the audience iq goes up 40 points in one day, only to decline the day after christmas back to where it was, i think they have abandoned the grownup audience and not building them the way they should. Rose didnt you argue the exactly the opposite . I would sort of say that it did, i mean, you know, argo is Warner Brothers lincoln, as disney. I mean, life of pi with fox, i think, i mean i plea with you about the calendar, that jamming all of the adult movies so to speak, i guess that is not the phrase, into the last three months of the year is a mistake and it is driven by the hopes someone will get through and get nominations but i think that an awful lot of these movies are being made and are being made at a scale and also by the way getting some box office returns, i mean a lot of these movies we are talk about have done very well. Yes, that is a relief, i wish there were more of them and distributed throughout the year and i wish kids were interested in more of them and that they werent grabbed by these franchises at the age of eight and expected to remain in kind of pa goofy euphoria until they are 30, people forget movies were essentially made for grownups until 1975, yeah there were always family movies and cartoons and stuff but when you were ten or 11, you were taken by your parents to the movies and you half understood what was going on and half didnt understand, that was part of building an adult taste for movies, and part of growing up, and i dont know now whether they are building that kind of audience, i dont see them doing it. And a lot of those kids when they get older will probably just fade off into television which is perfectly reasonable, given that television is the beast of the southern wild well, the revolution has yet to come. It can come because you can make movies so much more cheaply. Rose . I am not sure the old regime is quite as decadent as you think. Rose do you want to weigh in . I think i am on tonys side. It cant be the grave of the movies, it cant be. It is a good final three months of the year. But even earlier, i dont want to sound still he but some of the films not mentioned today, we saw Matthew Mcconaughey we thought he might be nominated for magic mike, i thought it was an absolutely magical film, as an educator i am not as despondent because i do see my student respond as Columbia University not just to old films and not just great to the great awe towers but the fact cinema can be designed widely. My husband says some movies open wide and others run deep, todays nomination suggests there is some of both. Rose i have to end it there. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Thanthank you for joining us. See you next time. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications captioned by Media Access Group at wgbh access. Wgbh. Org rose funding for charlie rose has been provided by the cocacola company, supporting this Program Since 2002. And american express. Additional funding provided by these funders. And by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Be more, captioning sponsored by wpbt this is n. B. R. Tom good evening. Im tom hudson. Its one of the worst flu seasons in a decade. How all those sick days could impact a companys bottom line and the economy. Susie im susie gharib. Wells fargo posts better than expected earnings. We review the results and pre view a wave of Big Bank Earnings coming out next week. Tom and boeings 787 dreamliner undergoes a comprehensive safety review by federal regulators af oqr severl problems surfaced this week. That and more tonight on n. B. R. Tom if you are sneezing andc feverish tonight, youre not alone. The flu has officially reached epidemic proportions in the united states. The centers for Disease Control and prevention say more than 7 of deaths last week were caused by pneumonia and the flu. Its expected to be the worst flu season in a decade. But its not just a Public Health issue, theres the potential for a real economic