start steaming like a bit o out liars at least in theeneral elecrate, we are nothere yet but i think we will be there in the next four or five years. >> rose: we look at a new documentary about the new york times called page 1, inside "the new york times", we talk to three people featured in the documentary, they are david car, bryan sfelter and gay toliz. >> the suggestion of people not only could "the new york times" go out of business, but that it would be a civic good that it did, i find to be fatuous and silly, because we have lost so much journalistic horsepower from the ecosystem of news that it could be regardless of the organization's faults which are, you know, we could argue about all day long, you can't aord to lose the boots on the ground, the muscle that, you know, the 1,100 women and men that, you know, make the phone calls, that go to the place. >> rose: michele bachmann's candidacy, same-sex marriage and inside the new york times when we continue. >> funding for charlie rose was provided by the following. >> >> every storyeeds a hero we can all root for, that beats the odds and comesut on top, but th isn't just a hollywood storyline, it is happening every day, all across america. every time a storefront opens, or the midnight oil is burned, or when someone chase as dream, not just a dollar. they are small business owners, so if you want to root for a real hero, support small business. shop small. >> rose: additional funding provided by these funders. >> and by bloomberg. a provider ofultimedia news and information svices worldwide. >> from our captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: congresswoman michele bachmann declared her presidency for the presincy of the united states today, she made her announcement in her birthplace of waterloo, ia. >> i didn't seek plic office for power or fortune, but simply to make life better in our community and o public schools that are for our children and now i seek the presidency, not for vanity, but because america ist a crucial moment and i believe that we must make a bold choice if we are to secure the promise of our future. we cannot afford four more years of barack obama. >> rose: bachmann is a tea party favorite and joins romney of massachusetts, pawlenty of minnesota, and newt gingrich, former alaska governor sarah palin has yet to announce her decision, joining me now from washington, mark halperin of time magazine, welcome, sir. >> good to see you, charlie. >> rose: who is she? give me a sense of what he is as a person and as a politician. >> well, the first thing i would say is, she is proving right now that politics is still, filled with the unexpected, very few people and i put myself in this group would have thought of her as a serious player in this nomination fig, up until the new hampshire debate just a few days ago, since then she has been remaking herself in a remarkable and skillful way, she is someone relatively new to politics and only been in the house of representatives f a few terms, she is someone w has a following national liam mongs tea party conservatives, religious conservatives, homeschools not respected by some of her colleagues on capitol hill but a real force now in this presidential process, even if she doesn't end up the nominee. >> rose: does she have advisors helping never in terms of her public political rollout? >> she does indeed, she has some experienced people who have been with her a while and she brought in some people, some from mike huck beebe huckabee's campaign, ed rollins, when he ran for a second term, brought in ed g improvement az, one of the top pollsters in the republican party, brett o'donnell who is one of the best forensic coaches in the rublican party, they are working with her very closely, they are preserving what has made her a national figure among certain americans, while trying to expand her appeal, and if you watched her on her sunday show performances over the weekend, if you watch her in the intervis she has done around her announcement today, he is extraordinarily skillful in choosing words and how she is presenting herself, the mainstream michelle bachmann peoe on the left will scream and howell this isn't who she is, she makes mistakes that -- they are tryingo put that in the past and she is trying to deflect and sand the rough edges off what is a follow dollar rising per, parizing persona to make her more acceable. >> rose:his is chris wallac onunday, roll the tap >> are you a flake? >> well, i think that would be insultinto say somhing like th, because i am a serious person. >> but you understand when i say that that is what the rap on you is. >> well, what i would say i that i am 55 years old, i have been married 33 years, i am not only a lawyer, i am a postctorate degree in federal tax law from william and mary and worked in serious scholarship and in work in the united states federal tax court, my husband and i raised five kids, we have raised 23 posterior children and applied ourself to education reform and started a charter school for at risk kids and also been a state senator and member of the united states congress five years. i have been very active in our business as a job create the for and i understand job creation and we have been actively, have been active in the movement in washington, dc with those who are affiliated with fiscal reform, do you -- a i think it is important to say that, but do you recognize that now that you are in the spotlight in a way you weren'tefor that you have to be careful and n say what some regard as flaky things? >> well, of course a person has to be careful with stament that they make, i think that is true, and i think now there will be an opportunity to be able to speak fully on the issues, i look forward to that. >> rose: it seems to me she did quite well in that answer. >> pitch perfect in all of her answers, i mean, you know, charlie people like i say sit and watch these interviews and we critique them and score them like we are watching some sort of theatre performance. i think her answers are pitch perfect for what she is trying to execute, preserve th parts of michelle bachmann that a appealing to her current pporters while reachin out to people and presenting herself, if you take her resume, as she .. enunciated it there, what she has done with her career and what she has done in terms of foster children and raising her own family she has a remarkably compelling story, it has been obscured for most of the national media and for a lot of republicans, mainstream republicans by her outrageous statements at times, by hermes statements at times, but she is toning all of that down in a way that is, again, got the potential to broaden her appea >> rose: okay, but what should we be saying about those statements that you just characterized as outrageous? i mean what is it she is saying that is outrageous? >> well, in the past, i mean the one people have really focused on in the last couple of days is she told chris matthews that she agreed with the motion that president obama was potentially unamerican, anti-american and she wouldn't really explain that, she backed off that a little bit this weekend. she has been adivisiveigure, one part of the reason he is so beloved by the right is because she said things right on the edge of acceptable and sometimes over about the president, and about the democratic party. >> rose: does this make it more or less likely that sarah palin will run? >> well, that is a good question, i always like to say predicting what governor palin is going to do islike predicti the actions of the north korean government , there is no rational data to rely on, i think governor palin could look at her and say i can do that and do it bter and bigger, so there is clearly room for me, on the other hand, she may say, michelle bachmann is now at the top of the polls in iowa and has a fund-raising base and up and running with a staff, maybe it would be difficult to overtake her given that they do share a lot of the same voter appeal in iowa and in south carolina and nationally. >> rose: in iowa she is tied with mitt romney. >> and they are at the top and who one is even close. they are both in the low 20s, herrmann cane, who i don't think many people will win iowa necessarily is ten percent, everybody is below that, the thing that i michelle bachmann has, the big three we discussed before, mitt romney .. john huntsman and ten pawlenty, none of those three guys will ever walk into a room and have people act like a celebrity or a rock star just walked in the room, it is just not their nature. last three people elected president of the united states barack obama, gege bush, bill clinton all had that in spades and in the culture in which we live now that is big deal, that is something you would rather have than not have in presidential politics, michele bachmann has that in spades and in iowa when he is in living rooms and seeing somebody they have seen for years on tv and from iowa, she announced in iowa but not spent all that much time there, but she is going to be able to make up her lost time because she is already so well-known to the kind of conservative activist who participates in the caucuses and she will do well in debates based on what she did in new hampshire. >> if she keeps that up she will do well this the debates, again i am so impressed by what she has done in the last few weeks since she started working with the new advisors and since she decided to enter the race, there is a straw poll in august in iowa, that the republican party puts on there, i suspect she will do very well at that, her appeal, her grass root support her celebrity is taylor made for that kind of event. >> rose: speaking of other political news, huntsman, how has he done since his announcement? >> you know, a lot of people looked at the announcement and were a little disappointed, his energy level, his aggressiveness or lack of aggressiveness, is off putting to some peoe, i think the realey for hi is fund-raising, because the way he is going to establish himself as a credible candidate is if he is able to raise, not money, but the first couple of weeks of his candidacy to show he is a first tier candidate in some -- a category that is really important in terms of mon. he is, i think, got the potential based on fund-raising and based on wha what happens in iowa straw poll to eclip tim pawlenty as the most likely romney alternative but he and everybody else is oversdowed by michele bachmann and so r by rick perry the governor of texas who may also enter the investigation and also would be the kind of high energy, grass roots supported candidate that could put the big three in a disadvantages you position when it comes to energizing crowds and building support. >> rose: you, you have become almost like tim russell was in terms of people waiting and then argue about whatever your pronouncements are. i am now preferring to -- this is what he said, quote, in a profile he wrote for the new york times sunday magazine about john huntsman he said, quote, halperin declared huntsman to be more comfortable campaigner than even george w. bush or barack obama a pronouncement that struck even huntsman own aids as implausible but dutifully disseminated it to the press. >> you know, i haven't gone back and checked the tape but i think my friend is slightly misquoted me, i don't think he said he was better than those gs i said he was as food as them and he was, when i saw him in new hampshi he was as a grass roots campaigner and a gun shop in a harley store, vfw hall, he was extraordinarily good talking to people, and i tched him at a town meeti in mielment last week sitting, you watch these events, charlie, anyone who covered politics, sitting with business people, talking about the economy, it was a more genuine and human exchange where he really listened to what they were saying, he really was seeking ideas than i have seen any candidate do. those are his strong points his weak points which i am more familiar watching now for a second time in florida, he is still does not project well. he still does not have the kind of high energy rhetorical presentation that voters he really want and there is no doubt the animating spirit within the republican pay right now is get barack obama out of office. and he is running not just a campaign based on civility but he often doesn't mtion or barely mentions barack obama in his stump speech that is a real weakness for a party w from the far right of the party to the center right of the party has, again, as they are animating, unifying force, get rid of barack obama. >> rose: animus toward the president which really you nights them in some cases. >> the is this you and i both believe in, that a narrative can make a difference in terms of giving you traction as a candidate, especially when you are at the beginning. romney narrative seems to be, i am the guy, i am a manager and i can manage this economy back to prosperity. huntsman's narrative is what? civility? or what? >> that is a good question. i think not all that defined, i think his narrative is we need to make different choice ms. this country that we are currently making but with reasoned rhetoric rather than shoiting voices. >> rose: and pawlenty's narrative? >> paul plenty's narrative is, i was a governor in a blue state and i governed in a conservative fashion and can do the same thing in washington. >> rose: and get america to five percent gdp growth in five years or some remarkable projection. >> as a goal, that would be awesome if he could do it. >> and bachmann's narrative? >> i think that is still in formation, i think her narrative revolves around the notion that she is an outsider, even though he is a member of congress and ironically the only sitting officeholder in the field right now, she is someone who says, i will challenge my own party when i disagree with them, rather than saying i am a loyal republican, you know, no matter what happens. so as an grass roots, on a grass roots outside irrelevant who can go to the white house and shake things up, but because she is standing, sanding down these rough edge i think wherehe ends up on some issues where in the past she has been on the barricades, maybe a little bit different d will be interesting to watch. >> ros the debate within the republican party will be what? >> well, that is a plate question, i still think the end of the day it is going to be about electability, i still think the person who looks the strongest against the president will be -- againstarack obama will be the nomine mitt romney has played his hand very strongly, he has had a weekend in some ways based on healthcare, based on the narrative about him as a flip flopper who is not genuine i think they have done some tactical and strategic things that have been smart to get him to this day going into the year he was the front runner, he is a stronger front runner with a financial reports come out about second quarter fund-raising he will even be a stronger front runner i think the narrative will be can someone knock off mitt romney and is that an establishment candidate like romney or tea party candidate like a bachmann or palin or a rick perry. >> rose: and huntsman is hoping that in fact is true, because he believes he can make a case for electability an because will aeal to independents and if he can do that, he will have the party maybe not be so upset over the fact he worked for obama and that kind of thing? >> that is correct, and i still think, you hear areat debate in the republicaparty about the fact he served as ambassador to china under barack obama is disqualifying my gut tells me it is not but there ar plenty of smart republicans that it absolutely disqualifying, again, when the animating factor in the party is, force is we don't like barack obama why would we dominate someone who intent two years working for barack obama? >> rose:. >> clearly some people that will be a problem. huntan can either knk romney off or if he is strong enough to stay in the race, he could be the beneficiary ifomney is basically knocked o bmichele bachnn or rick perry, huntsman could step forward and say the establishment, while rom my is too weak but i am right here to pick up the pieces and save you from someone who you don't think is electable because there are plenty of establishment republicans who do not view michele bachmann or rick perry as electable in a general election. >> so if if he can gog to new hampshire which is close to massachusetts and beat bachmann and win -- >> yeah. >> rose: he has got the momentum to roll into south carolina? >> i think if he -- if he is able to win iowa a new hampshire he will win the nomination right then and will, it is very rare somebody wins both of those and it could happen, they are down playing it, he doesn't want the expectation he will play big in iowa he did poorly in iowa after spending a lot of time and money there, he will clearly spend less time, he could draw in some money at the end, the most likely outcome of this contest is romney wins the nomination after a big scare or two against one or more strong challengers, e second most likely outcome is romney wins the nomination winning iowa and winning new hampshire, and then rolling forward into south carolina, utah, super tuesday or nevada super tuesday in a way that money can touch him. >> rose: does front runner help him or hurt him? >> it helps him historically, i mean the republican party has nominated the front runner every election since reagan, so i mean being the front runner historically has been a good place to be and like i said i think they have done a skillful job of leveraging the positive parts of being a front runner, particularly a fund-raising and hiring of staff and they have been able toeep the narrative from being solely about healcare, flip flopper, which is still part of the conversation, but the more he can keep that out of the front, the front of people's minds, the stronger he can be and the more likely it is he enters 2012 the way he entered 2011, which is as the front runner. >> historic legislatation in new york state as the senate approved same sex marriage, the republican majority and all but one democrat passed a marriage equality act, 11:55 p.m. andrew cuomo signed the bill into law which will go into effect late next month, it makes the new york the sixth and largest state to legalize same-sex marriage and joins connecticut, iowa, vermont and but as well a washington, d.c., many are wondering how this law will impact the on going debate over the rights of gays and leians in this country, jeffrey toobin of new yorker magazine and adam nagourney of "the new york times" i mad to have all of them he. give me the legal fix. >> it is up to eh state at thisoint, and many states, i believe it is 29; is that right, have constitutiol amendments saying that they can not. >> new yorker, we are like big picture guys. now, 29 states, and it really looks like the proposition eight case will end one way or anotr with california having same-sex marriage, so soon it seems likely there are going to be approximately a quarter of the people in the country living in a state with same-sex marriage. the question i have is, when will the supreme court arrest the issue? because i don't ink they are in any rush to do it. i think at the end of the day they will say that same-sex marriage is a constitional right,ou can't have one kind of marriage for straight people and one kind of nonmarriage for gay people. but i don't think they are in any rush to do that and i think it will maybe be five years or maybe be ten years and at that point the whole country will have it. >> rose: will they be, will they be able to pass i >> no with roe v. wade the supreme court will say it is a