liar. he's a bully. a narcissist at a level this country hasn't seen. >> what's behind his change of heart? >> two police shootings this week. >> don't shoot him. >> peaceful protests are growing around the country as we grapple with the question, what can be done to keep this from happening? joining me for insight and analysis are doris kearns goodwin, hugh hewill, gwef ifil and mike murphy. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." good sunday morning. it's an nfl sunday. really, this feels like a pregame show. the big game is tomorrow night on new york's long island. with a super bowl size audience expected. most important campaign moment until the next debate. probably not this time. hillary clinton comes in with nervous democrats feelin a little bit better about things. four national polls showed clinton up. three of the polls she's up by six points. in today's washington post/abc poll she's up by two. some show donald trump doing better and have a path. trump has never been more competitive than he is now. there's a sense doesn't knock him out tomorrow, she may never be able to before november. both sides are engaging in psychological gamesmanship. the clinton campaign has placed mark cuban, a huge trump critic, up front in the audience as a way to rattle trump. in response, as hard as this is to believe, trump has invited gennifer flowers to sit in the front who had an affair with bill clinton in the '80s. two candidates are taking very different approaches, getting ready for tomorrow night's big debate. while trump huddles, clinton is in her home. both preparing for the most important presidential debate in decades. >> you are going to hear donald trump doing a lot of trash talking. >> clinton is trying to -- >> she she ate like a pig. >> on stage, clinton will try to get under trump's skin. >> excuse me. i have given my answer. >> the challenge for clinton, predicting which trump will show up. >> people ask, are you going to go out there and do this and that? i don't know that. >> will trump lose his cool, be impatient, be too subdued or be crass. >> he referred to my hands. if they're small, something else must be small. i guarantee you, there's no problem. i guarantee. above the temperament questions and throw clinton off her game? >> he needs to worry about first of all not taking the bait from her and following her attacks. second of all, trump needs to make sure he is readied to talk about policy in a way that matches her. >> trump is watching videos to spot clinton's vulnerability. doing no formal mock debates. >> how is debate prep going? >> i'm his restlessness with preparation into an asset. >> i don't think he is locked up for two weeks like other people have been or currently are. cramming their heads with microchips and binders. >> trump can't afford to stumble on substance and he has to avoid looking like a bully. as for clinton, she's not afraid of going negative. >> your profusion of comments about your feelings toward president obama are a little strange given what you said >> and she's had her best performances when opponents came off as snarky. >> i don't think i'm that bad. >> you are likeable enough. >> or rude. >> we will shake on this. >> i want your signature. >> she can sometimes become defensive, particularly on questions of character. >> i communicated about classified material on a wholly separate system. >> she can get tangled up with >> for hillary clinton, sometimes for that -- that wall seems like it's 25 feet wide for people. at the more that she lets people through the doors, the better off she's going to be. >> both prepare for the most consequential day of this campaign. >> while you can't win an election in a debate, you can certainly lose one. >> joining me is the chairman of the clinton campaign. welcome to "meet the press." >> good to be with you. office in 2000. how is the preparation for this one different? >> look, she takes the debate preparation very seriously. she respects the american public. she wants to tell them what she wants to do for them. it's about laying down policies she thinks will improve the economy. make it an economy working for everyone and not just for people at the top. she has a challenge, because donald trum aren't true. he comes in and he was rated liar of the year last year. this week, "the new york times" did a graphic of the 12 whoppers of the week. she's got to be able to both make that positive case but also not let donald trump get away with what he is likely to do, which is to make stuff up. >> it's clear that temperament, you believe, is his achilles hill. you are running. 14 ads you have unveiled, 13 of them have to do with trump's temperament. >> donald trump doesn't see people like me. he just sees disability. >> how would you answer that? what sacrifice have you made. >> i think i've made a lot of sacrifices. built great structures. i have had tremendous success. >> he's a xenophobic religious bigot. >> all it takes is one wrong out of them. >> just one. >> what if the donald trump you are portraying is not the donald trump that shows up on stage monday night? >> there's only one donald trump. i think he has run the race in a way that those ads i think fairly show. but i think again, you showed an ad about disability. what hillary wants to do is what she did this week, tell that an inclusive economy, make spaces for everyone. donald trump will have to think about what he said in the past. his disparagement of that reporter that you saw in the screen with disabilities. going to have to think about the names he called to families, to mexicans, to muslims. you know, he may try to -- he is a good television performer. he may try to adjust for that in the debate. the reality is, he has run his campaign that way. is to get under his skin? is that why you gave mark cuban a ticket in the front row? >> no. i think mark cuban is one of the business leaders who was never involved who has endorsed hillary, because he thinks she will do better for the economy. you saw his reaction which is to do his favorite short, to dive in the sewer and go for a swim. but i think that we're looking surrogate for her from the time he went to his hometown of pittsburgh and gave her a full endorsement she would be best for the economy. >> you referred to diving into the sewer. you believe that inviting gennifer flowers is diving into the sewer? >> you know, i will leave it to mr. trump to decide what he will do. but i think that -- what he will do tomorrow night. but i think that he is predictable when you poke him a little bit, he that's why he got in so much trouble when he attacked the khan family. that's what he does. that's who he is. that's why he is dangerous. >> one of the things that hillary clinton has to do is restore this issue of trust with the voters. wasn't to play a debate clip from earlier this week. it was a congressional debate that featured charlie crist, the hillary clinton. here is his answer and the reaction to his answer. >> the thing i like most about her is i believe she's steady. i believe she's strong. i believe she's honest. and i look forward to voting for her. >> it was when he says the world honest, the crowd groaned. you hear laughter. this issue of honest a trustworthiness, how much progress can she make monday night on restoring some trust andho >> look, i think she has to talk directly to the american people about what she wants to do. i think when you think about what's honest about her, it's that from the day she got -- left law school, she has been a champion for women, for children, for families. she's done it all her life. she's gotten real results for people in contrast, donald trump has been about himself. i think she can look directly at that is going to be brighter, more optimistic and improving their lives. >> very quickly, today's "new york times" has an extensive report on the ties of hillary clinton to goldman sachs. it talks about various ways they have been close, whether it's the paid speeches, whether it was supporting a philanthropic operation while she was at the state department. does this undere clinton's credibility that she can be tough on wall street, that she has so many close ties to one of wall street's biggest brands? >> that story was -- again, it was kind of false equivalency. what it said was she supported a philanthropic program that gave 10,000 entrepreneurs around the world a chance to get started. what she has done is put forward what everyone agreed, including "the new york times" itself, that is the most comprehensive program to regulate wall street. to wipe away dodd-frank, everything that has been done to make sure that wall street doesn't wreck main street again. what she wants to do is make sure that there is no institution too big to fail and no individual too big to jail. i think she has pursued a very aggressive path on wall street. >> thanks for your time this morning. >> thanks. joining me now is general michael flynn, former director of the defense intelligence agency and a top adviser to donald trump. he has been in the room for debate prep sessions. welcome to the show. >> thanks for having me. >> let me start with this -- the public perception is that donald trump isn't doing the same type of preparation for this debate that hillary clinton is. the campaign manager said she's not been locked up in a cabin for two weeks. need to be rehearsing flash cards. are you concerned though that the preparation is enough? >> so a couple things. the very last thing that john just said is no individual too big to jail. that should include people like hillary clinton. five people around her have had -- have been given immunity to include her former chief of staff. when you are given immunity, that means you have probably committed a crime. i don't know how he can sit there anday that with all the things that have been going around just swirling around hillary clinton with her e-mails. in terms of preparation, to answer your question, donald trump has been preparing. you know, it's like where is hillary clinton this week? donald trump has been in pennsylvania. he has been in florida. he has been in ohio. i was with him last night in virginia. he is out speaking to the american public, large groups, small groups. that's how he is bringing his shift in the polls. one of the things i think that you ought to do is not only talk about where the polls are today but where they were a week ago or two weeks ago. huge, huge shifts. the way we feel, the way i feel is that there's a huge shift in momentum. the american public are starting to wake up. >> you are confident that he is going to be able to pass the commander in chief test? so many of your colleagues in the national security w, staffers, bush appointees, former service, letter after letter just hundreds of former national security professionals who say they cannot endorse donald trump. how does he convince a public that he is up to the job when so many folks who have worked closely with you, closely with others, believe he is unfit for the job? >> there are hundreds -- there are hundreds of people that have said just the opposite thing be commander in chief, ability to be the president of the united states and kind of move this country forward in the right direction. a lot of those names on those lists -- i look very closely at these things. some of the things that they say. they offer no solutions. these are people that represent the past. they represent so many of the failed policies and really the stupid decisions that were made that have kept us in this perpetual conflict that we are in in the middle east and places like afghanistan. military and veterans. but i'm going to tell you the decisions that put us there, many of those people that are on those lists are the ones that actually put us there. >> you are a general. does he know more than you? >> let me tell you, i have been advising donald trump for over a year now. he is a great listener. one of the things he has -- what we have in this country is we have a deficit of leadership. donald trump brings a strategic are as america and how do we make america first? how do we bring america forward? how do we improve our economy, our military? there's so many things that we have to get fixed in our country right now. just look at what's going on in the current situation. >> i want to follow up and state on the debate here. in response to the invitation that hillary clinton made to mark cuban, donald trump tweeted that he has invi gennifer flowers to the debate. should we expect to see her? >> the debate will be the most watched show in the history of tv. donald trump has been out speaking to the american public and they have been listening and they have been hearing. you said it up front when you talked about the shift in the polls. the momentum is on donald trump's side. thank god for that. confirm this gennifer flowers talk? has she been invited to do this? do you feel it's appropriate? >> i would just go with what you have seen. we will wait to see what happens tomorrow night. >> do you think it's appropriate? >> i'm sorry? >> do you think it's appropriate to invite gennifer flowers to the bait? mark cuban? he's not a legitimate person. why is he invited? again, i would leave this tit for tat. this is about the big issues that this country is worried about. i'm worried about, that's the reason why i'm sitting here this morning with you. our country needs to go in a different direction. it's failing in many ways. we're struggling. the difference between the bubble of washington, d.c. and the rest of america is such a see big leadership. that's what donald trump provides. >> we will be watching tomorrow night. general flynn, thanks for coming on. later in the broadcast, we will go inside the debate prep war rooms. i will talk to two who have prepped candidates. when we come back -- >> this man is a pathological liar, a narcissist at a level i don't think this country has seen. >> what's behind tedc after all? to get you all psyched up for tomorrow night's debate, we will show you highlights from donald trump and hillary clinton. debate moments they have been participated in, beginning with this from one of clinton's 2008 debates with then senator barack obama. >> what can you say to the voters of new hampshire on this stage tonight who see a resume and like it but are hesitating on the likability issue where welcome to the world 2116, you can fly across town in minutes or across the globe in under an hour. whole communities are living on mars and solar satellites provide earth with unlimited clean power. in less than a century, boeing took the world from seaplanes to space planes, across the universe and beyond. and if you thought that was amazing, you just wait. ?? for lower back the search for relief often leads here. introducing drug-free aleve direct therapy. a high intensity tens device that uses technology once only in doctors' offices. for deep penetrating relief at the source. new aleve direct therapy. can't see it. can't taste it. but there's so much more to it. here's how benefiber? works. inside us are trillions of good microflora that support digestive health. the prebiotic fiber in benefiber? nourishes them... and what helps them, helps you. team, what if 30,000 people download the new app? we're good. okay... what if a million people download the new app? we're good. five million? good. we scale on demand. hybrid infrastructure, boom. ok. what if 30 million people download the app? we're not good. we're total heroes. scale on demand with the number one company in cloud infrastructure. hewlett packard enterprise. welcome back. the panel is with us. mike murphy and is doing something that very few people do. he launched a podcast. gwen ifill. more podcasts coming from her. and hugh hewitt. there's one topic -- i want to spend a couple minutes on the ted cruz news. as you know, this is what ted cruz said about -- said about donald trump -- fiery donald trump three days before he dropped out. here is a montage. >> you are a coward. this man is a pathological a bully. a narcissist at a level i don't think this country has ever seen. >> mike murphy, he is now an endorser. >> i think the editors of believe and absolutely nothing magazine have a new cover. he made the big move of the convention some people thought it was to the point of rudeness. he distanced from trump. he claimed principals. there's a case to make there. now threatened with a primary in texas, a 180. from this? is he a portrait, hugh, of transactional politician? his chief super pac donors became trump's. kelly anne conway is with trump now. you have a congressman thinking about challenging, rick perry. this feels like it was a move of political force. >> i have to disagree. i talked to the senator monday. i talked to i disagree he is in trouble in texas. i think he got what he needed from trump. what wasn't a race is now a race. in august, when you oppose donald trump at the convention, no one thinks he is within ten points of secretary clinton. now the supreme court is in balance. if you look at the list that mr. trump released to add to the names, you will see a very interesting name, margaret ryan. she's a clerk and a thomas clerk she's a terrific judge as were the other ones. ted cruz is playing with the supreme court. >> it wasn't enough for him six weeks ago and it is now? >> the problem is, beware of ambition. teddy roosevelt did almost the same thing. many good republicans decided we can't go with him. he promised to do it and then he said, i gotta go with my party. he said, i betrayed myself. will ne people. they were with him. they were with his principals. i wonder how he will feel about it. >> i have to put -- there's a meme going around. ted cruz's favorite movie is princess bride. look here. >> i will do the accent. you know, i understand the supreme court thing. if that were true -- i understand that set the except they were not long ago. it wasn't that donald trump is more likely to be president than he was when he was more likely to be nominee. ted cruz is playing a game for ted cruz which obviously -- maybe there's a dancing with the stars slot. maybe it's time for ted cruz, texas politicians on dancing. this wasn't even a dance. this was a capitulation. i guess we will see clearly why. but i don't know it changes votes. >> you are a you are in that world. did you feel betrayed? >> no. i have always thought cruz is a cynic. but i think politically, this is for him than a normal politician. cruz has always presented himself as the one guy who is uncompromised by washington, the one man against the machine. the creature of principal. now, he seems like just another politician. that's kryptonite for him. i agree the best argument is requires trust in trump. that's the bridge i can't cross. >> to do it before the debate. i have to say, hugh, that's -- what if everything that cruz said about trump in may comes true tomorrow night? >> i just have to disagree with everyone. the difference is that trump was not viable in july. he is not only viable, he is ahead now. >> you are making the political argument? you are saying ted cruz -- >> i can now save the supreme court. because a justice appointed by secretary clon will last for 40 years. ted cruz is a constitutional scholar, he is a genuine originalist. >> do you agree that this is not about whether the supreme court so much as to whether ted cruz can survive? we're talking about him. that wasn't going to happen. >> he will win a primary in texas easily. i would bet everything. i will defer to mike on that. i think he would crush mike mccall. >> just being back in the air again. while, how fun to be back. it's almost -- >> okay. i don't know. >> watch that primary. i'm not sure. there's the potential for a great primary. >> i will pause here. we have more to go both on debate and the other big story of the week. later we will talk about the police shooting in north carolina. >> don't shoot him. he has no weapon. he has no weapon. >> plus, the shooting in tulsa, oklahoma, and the queon do to stop this from happening? whether we come back, inside the war room. what goes on in the debate prep sessions? will talk to two insiders who have been in the sessions and have prepped presidential candidates. and as we go to break, here is a memorable donald trump debate moment from earlier this primary season. >> let's see. i'm at 42. you are at 3. so far i'm doing better. >> doesn't matter. >> so far i'm doing better. you started off over here, you it's not a banner that goes on a wall. it's not something you do now and then. or when it's convenient. it's using state-of-the-art simulators to better prepare for any situation. it's giving offshore teams onshore support. and it's empowering anyone to stop a job if something doesn't seem right. at bp, safety is never being satisfied. to me the acidity of foods and what they can do to your teeth. thinning of the teeth and leading to being extremely yellow would probably gross me out! my dentist recommended pronamel. it can help protect enamel from acid erosion. my mouth feels really fresh and clean and i stuck with it. i really like it. it gives me a lot of confidence. pronamel is all about your enamel. . welcome back. everyone has been speculating about whether donald trump can be presidential tomorrow. or whether hillary clinton can be more likeable and avoid being too lawyerly. joining me now are two people who have been in those debate war rooms before and have faced what donald rumsfeld might have stephanie was the deputy campaign manager for president obama's re-election in 2012 and was part of the debate preparation process for john kerry in 2004. welcome to you both. stephanie, let me start with you and the idea of gamesmanship. which is the clinton campaign deciding to put mark cuban in the front row. obviously, the donald trump campaign may or may not be following through with trump's pledge to bring flowers. my guess is others are trying to talk him out of it. did you this in '04. >> i seem to recall that we had some 9/11 widows in the audience in 2004, just to make the point that we had a lot of work to do to get back on track in afghanistan and iraq took us off course. iraq took us off course because of bush not telling truth about what clinton and trump are doing are trying to throw each other off their game. the difference is, hillary clinton is doing it with a legitimate businessman, also a celebrity. as john put it earlier on your show, trump is just jumping right down in the sewer and swimming by inviting gennifer flowers. part of what you want do is reinforce a positive about your campaign or make a legitimate point about your opponent. what he is doing is not help him. >> it would have made more sense had trump responded with bringing a grieving mother of one of the benghazi family members. that seems to be would have been the counter that would have made sense. >> you just saw the effectiveness of the tactic. it was designed to provoke donald trump. it provoked donald trump into going down the gennifer flowers rabbit hole as opposed to what tomorrow, one of the big tests that donald trump has on this debate stage, can he comport himself like an american president should comport himself? is he going to be able to be seen by the american people as a plausible commander in chief, somebody who could address the nation in a crisis? i think she's going to try to push his buttons all through this debate and get a volcanic eruption like you saw throughout the primary debates. >> steve, i will s as -- for john mccain to stand in there for president obama. how important did you find the mock debate for john mccain? i think if i remember, there was some concern that president bush didn't do enough preparation before the first debate in '04. >> look, i think that if you look at incumbent presidents. ma in 2012. it's hard to tell the incumbent president, time to practice. they pay for it when they don't. rob portman was spectacular in the preps. it was a real live fire scenario for the candidates. he was exquisitely prepared. he was tough. and he gave a very accurate and precise preview what was coming at john mccain. there's no question that john mccain's performances were better because of the preparation he went thh >> stephanie, i know you used john kerry as the stand-in for mitt romney. i guess we know it's felipe ryans. a personal spokesperson for hillary clinton. he is playing donald trump. it's interesting that i guess the idea was to find somebody that could be snarky enough and feel comfortable going after hillary clinton in a small room. >> well, that's certainly felipe. he will know how to push her choice. what you want to do in these prep sessions is do -- roll play every potential scenario so that you have a good understanding of how your candidate is going to react. whether they can keep their cool when they have the right judgement to go on attack or they are keeping in mind their larger vision that they need to communicate to the american people. i think felipe testing secretary clinton's limits is very important. because we don't know -- no one has ever debated debate stage. we don't know exactly who is showing up. >> final question for both of you. part of the debate prep process isn't just prepping the candidate but it's also you have to prep for the post spin game. every cycle it gets faster and faster. the way the debate gets perceived is suddenly goes faster and faster. stephanie, what did you learn right and wrong from 2012 about the necessity of being prepared for that? >> well, we were prepared but we 2008 campaign instead of 2012. what we hadn't realized is what a powerful tool twitter was going to be in defining the narrative of that. we could see the narrative being set in the first 15 minutes of the debate. who knows what's going to happen this year in 2016? every year it's a different format, it's a different technology. but you have to understand how people communicate and how quickly narratives can get set. by the time you get in the spin room, it's done. >> what's harder these days, post debate fallout? >> when you go into the spin rooms after, they're a tradition of days past. the verdict of what happened in this debate will be rendered by the middle of the debate. certainly, by the end, by social media. the ability of the campaign teams to come out to be able to tell the american people, here is what really happened when 80 million-plus people just saw it, here is to communicate completely, what are they trying to accomplish? managing expectations on the front side of it is much more important. >> steve, stephanie, all right, we're given the longest pregame you could have for a debate. we're doing it the day before. thank you both. we'll be back in a moment with one group donald trump needs help with. it's not the voting groups you might think. >> i'm asking you to sign it. >> well, i would be letters -- >> right here. sign it right now. >> we will shake on this. >> i want your signature. i think everybody wants to see i think everybody wants to see you signing something that you today i am helping people everywhere do what they do... better. i work with startups like alpha modus to predict markets five times more accurately. i am helping tv networks use social data to predict what people want to watch. and i worked with marchesa hello, my name is watson. working together, we can outthink anything. i was out here smoking instead of being there for my son's winning shot. that was it for me. that's why i'm quitting with nicorette. only nicorette mini has a patented fast dissolving formula. it starts to relieve sudden cravings fast. every great why needs a great how. every great why you're not a cook, if you don't cook. you're not a firefighter, if you don't fight fires. and you can't be our leader, if you don't lead. our next president needs to take action on social security, or future generations could lose up to $10,000 a year. we're working hard, what about you? hey candidates, do your jobs. keep social security strong. don't let dust and allergens get between you and life's beautiful moments. only control one inflammatory substance. flonase controls 6. and six is greater than one. flonase changes everything. ? before i had the shooting, burning, pins-and-needles of diabetic nerve pain, these feet played shortstop in high school, learned the horn from my dad and played gigs from new york to miami. but i couldn't bear my diabetic nerve pain any longer. so i talked to my doctor and he prescribed lyrica. nerve damage from diabetes causes diabetic nerve pain. lyrica is fda approved moderate to even severe diabetic nerve pain. lyrica may cause serious allergic reactions or suicidal thoughts or actions. tell your doctor right away if you have these, new or worsening depression, or unusual changes in mood or behavior. or swelling, trouble breathing, rash, hives, blisters, muscle pain with fever, tired feeling or blurry vision. common side effects are dizziness, sleepiness, weight gain and swelling of hands, legs, and feet. don't drink alcohol while taking lyrica. don't drive or use machinery until you know how lyrica affects you. now i have less diabetic nerve pain. and these feet would like to keep the beat going. ask your doctor about lyrica. we are back. it's data download time. we're asking the question, what hillary clinton has substantial leads among african-americans and hispanics. so trump needs to run up the score with white voters. let's look at some of the key demographic breakdowns within the white vote. among whites without a college education, trump's biggest strength, he is up 26 points. that's not bad. except romney won that group by a similar margin. it may not be enough. among college educated whites. here is what's striking. clinton is up one point among college educated white men. this is a group that mitt romney won by 21 points four years ago. all told, clinton leads him among college educated white voters by five points, a group mitt romney won by 14 points. trump is only leading by 11 points a this will pose a major challenge for donald trump. mitt romney won by 20 points four years ago. remember, whites are still the biggest part of the electorate. that nine point difference is enormous. this is the problem for trump. he has to do better than mitt romney somewhere to win because romney lost in 2012. it's not going to happen with african-americans. we know it's not going to happen with latinos. if it's not going to happen with young voters, it has to happen romney still lost. clinton has her own struggles. it's hard to see a path to the presidency for trump if he doesn't improve somewhere, particularly amid college educated whites. some debate moments we remember that i'm sure the candidates would like to forget. >> let's see. i can't. the third one, i can't. sorry. oops. hey, jesse. who are you? 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nourishes them... and what helps them, helps you. welcome back. it was a week in america that saw two black men in two cities shot and killed by police officers. in north carolina, protests continued well into the night. tulsa, oklahoma, a more subdued stricken. it started with colin kaepernick in august with a singular protest when it comes to racial justice injustice. now athletes from across the nfl have joined him, to the wnba where there have been protests for some time now. they have joined in protesting during the national anthem. look at this on friday night at an smu football game, marching band members knelt while playing the national anthem. a high school footbaea oakland laid on their backs with their hands up. by the way, colin kaepernick himself taking a knee beside that team. all against the backdrop of the grand opening of the new smithsonian dedicated to black history and culture perfect president obama referenced the last few years. >> men can win the gold for their country but insist on breathe t-shirt and grieve for fallen police officers. >> it has been tough. it will probably be part of the debate. wasn't to read something that charles ramsey wrote today. police officers carry at love baggage. in some cases they were enforcing unjust laws. when i went into the chicago police department, it wasn't the most popular thing a young black kid could that will take time to repair. this challenging moment is a tremendous amount to make real improvements. i hope none of us squander it. gwen, i read this this morning from charles ramsey. i felt like he was almost throwing up his hands in frustration, because it doesn't feel like a solution is in sight. >> it's no, sir despair as this amazing dichotomy of this week. we had the president -- if you athletes in the olympics who raised their fist during the anthem. yesterday, the national anthem was played at the beginning of the ceremony and the black national anthem at the end. at the beginning, the emotion of the people in the audience, singing full throatedly, reminded me of what are the things that are true in this country. which is that we want to, we aspire to, we hope to make it better yet we see the clash, the ho museum put up against what we see happen in the streets. the conflict of what happened in tulsa, which was mostly peaceful and how it was handled in charlotte, there where there was not a peaceful response having do with transparency. >> it is. it does -- i feel like you watch even hillary clinton and donald trump, they had -- i don't want to say uneven reactions. but they don't know how to respond anymore. the solution, we kind of to know like it's happening. >> things are happening. it seems when donald trump said to the african-american communities you are living in the worst times ever, ever, it has never been that bad, that's what the museum shows is not true. the bottom of the museum shows blacks in the slave pens. it shows them under jim crow. it shows them making uplift. we have made progress. even in the police situation, there are best practices in some cities. in tulsa, they did a better part because they had a riot there. they learned from mistakes. despair. for many people in the inner city, it doesn't seem like much has changed. but it has compared to where we were 120, 130, 140 years ago. >> transparency, you can see the charlotte police chief has been grappling with this. they didn't release the full video. it didn't erase the skepticism. >> it won't be gone for a long time. i think it's unfortunate that we're not spending more time on former president yesterday and we aren't spending more time on transparency as we have to. i think more many in the country, that's one event, charlotte, tulsa and the presidential race and the national anthem are one event. for a lot of the country, the national anthem is a different event. a lot of people are feeling suffocated by the cultural left. they don't associate it with race. they associate it with being overwhelmed by change. i think it's the most important column that's been written. >> >> i want to put it up. >> let me say, she and george w. bush get along really well. you have seen this at other events where they are holding hands and ignoring their spouses. that was two people who like each other. >> you know what was? the fact president bush signed this legislation that senator brownback worked on to create the museum. that's the kind of thing we should be celebrating. this is a great moment. >> this is political leaders >> we're unused to that. >> i'm in the position of being a republican who can't support the nominee of my party is he has been in the code language business for a long time. sometimes even pretty explicitly bringing those tensions forward under the guise of what was politically incorrect. it's a politically correct way to say things in our dialogue that maybe don't belong there. so i think this is -- imitation of this sort of thing can do a lot. >> that photo, and i've been thinking about this. a president trump, what happens at the unveiling of president obama's photo? what happens -- there are moments where you have to work with expresidents. i just -- that's a hard thing -- >> i spent a lot of time trying to imagine different people, not just donald trump, but hillary clinton in that position. i couldn't quite do it. your numbers, the numbers you showed in the data download about who he needs to win over explain a lot of what we have seen with donald trump going to white audiences. literally in the room but also more broadly. and his people have come to realize the way you get those voters he is not doing as well with as romney did is you show sense of tolerance and that's who he is really speaking to. when people say he is speaking to black voters, that's not who he is speaking to. >> that's clear. let me pause that. have a little fun here. those unfortunate debate moments that just make you do this. we'll be right back. >> coming up, "meet the press" - even parents need a time out sometimes, especially from communications technology. so why not spend one hour totally unplugged? read, talk, make art, or whatever. no batteries required. "meet the press" end game is brought to you by boeing, at a time. >> back with our end game segment. we don't live in a bubble. we're not the only show on television on a sunday morning. >> what? >> i was shocked myself. apparently on another program, kellyanne conway and mike pence have said gennifer flowers is not coming to the debate. >> trump breaks out of the cage. so three hours from now what campaign. there are people floating around donald trump. the bottom line of the debate will be he will start out sedated maybe for real. the real trump like the tweet i think will break out. >> do you think that hillary clinton has made this too much about donald trump? trying too hard to make it about donald trump? i sit there and say, what if donald trump is not the caricature? >> the most important thing is to not necessarily deal with trump. >> you would avoid it? >> i think what she needs to do is -- it's te likability shouldn't be what we are voting on. yet it matters. it's a reservoir of good feeling. that's why the phrase was i like ike because ike is easy to like. if she can own the e-mail scandal and talk about how she wishes she could turn the clock back, not simply on the e-mail thing but in the future if she makes mistakes, all presidents will, all possibilities will, i will own it right away, i will be more transparent, i will be more forthright. if she could do that like she affected her emotionally, then i think that's what she's going to be relaxed, know more than he does. he her body language shouldn't let him get under her skin. >> by the way, we have you on because you have made both a james blaine reference and have the campaign song and ike. this is why -- >> she sang. and i did the accent. >> of course, hugh, it's all -- is this going to be where issues are >> they disagree on a lot. >> i don't think issues matter. there are two architects on the stage. there's the smartest, toughest teacher in the high school, hillary clinton. maybe she spends too much time writing recommendations for the smartest kids. there's the football coach who wins, wins, wins and steps on people's toes. never the two shall cross in the hallway or like each other. i think -- professor kearns generation for some people. >> good news for her, nixon won twice. by the way, i hear you. >> that's the answer. >> the story of the debate from hillary's point of view is less dealing with trump's antics but can she fix hillary? she is under performing the vote she ought to have. she has to connect to people. she will have the audience in the moment to do it. tru the m word on this broadcast, which is moderator. >> word. >> you have done it here. it's amazing how hard they are working the reves. some of it has been -- some has been destructive. >> it has been. they worked me when i moderated. you remember this. but here is the thing. people need to understand the difference. much except the candidates try to get your head. lester is a pro. not going to happen. hillary clinton has done it for running for senate. she's been the stage alone with someone else. donald trump when he did his calling people names, there were ten other people on the stage. it's a different thing. there won't be cheering, the commission doesn't approve of cheering at a general election debate like there are primary debates. we may have our popcorn and wa but i don't think it's going to be the debate people will expect. >> speaking of popcorn, and a little bit of candy, here is a little candy for everybody. a reminder that one reason the debates are so very big is because they can so very wrong. >> who am i? why am i here? >> commerce, education and the -- what's the third one there? >> the vice-president doesn't believe in expiration. of eastern europe and there never will be under a ford administration. >> commerce, education and the -- >> let's dispel once and for all with this fiction that barack obama doesn't know what he is doing. he knows exactly what he is doing. let's dispel -- this notion that barack obama doesn't know what he is doing is just not true. >> there it is. the 25-second speech. ther >> i have had a record of appointing judges in the state of texas. that's what a governor gets to do. >> commerce. and let's see. i can't. the third one, i can't. sorry. >> there's differences. >> oops. >> look at this. you have lost it. when i got doris, i was going to go to you, and you can't talk. >> i'm finished. >> you are out. >> that's how you end up on >> the sigh thing is a reminder, none of us picked up on the sighs in the room. a lot of people thought gore trounced bush. the audience was offended by gore. >> i sat on the stage when sarah palin said, can i call you joe. i never heard her say it. you are in your head and you didn't know it. that's what started that whole debate. >> a quick programming note. in case you missed the point, there's a debate tomorrow night. nbc news will provide full coverage beginning at 9:00 eastern. other networks claim they are airing it. >> on pbs. >> that's all for today. we will be back next week because if it's sunday, it's donald tr next president. when will he stop this ugliness? >> and democrat hillary clinton, warming up for their first debate on monday, what they can say or do to win over arizona voters. under this decision when it is not clear the defendant is guilty. >> guilty of changing a diaper under arizona law. we clean up the mess made by a state supreme court decision.

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