Thank you for having me. A presbyterian in general is someone who believes that god is in charge and we are called to put faith into action. The term actually gomz from a greek work which is a term for i woulder. So we are edder. We are comprised of he will ders. And some elder is. We try to be his hands and feet in the world. Wonderful. And you are the pastor at calvary press i did tearian located in Pacific Heights a wellknown neighborhood in San Francisco. The church has a long history established in 1849. Tell us what calvary presbyterian is like today and the type of people who are drawn there. Okay. Thank you. So calvary, were actually in our third location. We started out on bush. Then we were exactly where the st. Francis hotel is and now were in Pacific Heights. We draw from all different neighborhoods and communities in city. We have people who hike up the hill, who take the bus, who come from all over. A lot of people from business backgrounds, some people who just love the arts and the music. We have a very strong music program. And a growing social Justice Program to make sure we arent staying on a nice hill and come out and look at the bay that actually come down the hill and open our hearts and try to serve as best we can. Speaking of business backgrounds, before you were a pastor, you were a Business Marketing person for ten years. Yeah. And then felt called to ministry, i assume . Yeah. How do you use that Business Marketing background in what youre doing now . Well, everyone is in sales when it really, you know, comes down to it. Whatever we do. Yes. So cystian at this often christiany problems has its challenges. So we like to reclaim christ name in meaningful ways of service, with people of all backgrounds. So in terms of my background, one of the things we do on the business standpoint is a series of faith in business conversation down in the financial district. So several thursdays each month we get together and people talk about faith, their career, the challenges that they have, you know, hiring and firing and working with colleagues and all the things that make up our days between sundays. So we try to bridge that sun monday gap in ways that are meaningful. Help people translate into their day lives. I know thats a passion of yours. Yes. As serving as a pastor. Youre also interested in global and local kind of Community Service projects. Tell us about briefly the upcoming Global Ministry trip youre planning. Were taking a vision trip, can shmeans a small group of people considering how we may serve to cuba. So theres a longstanding Presbyterian Ministry in cuba. And one of the initial takes just to understand, there is an opportunity for relationship there. Theres some cultural exchange. But on the practical side, theres a significant lack of access to clean water in cuba. So we term calvary being involved in providing systems that can help ensure 3,000 to 5,000 people in each community are able to have access to clean water. Wonderful. Have you been to cuba before. This is my first time. Ive been to some other places to serve. Water we know in california is a growing issue and we certainly care about it here. But want to make sure we are serving our brothers and sisters around the world for their water needs too. Nab a wonderful trip. I know there is many local interests i read on your website. Name some others. Yeah, one of them were especially excited about is new door ventures. They provide job training and Entrepreneurship Training for 17 to 24yearold disconnected youth. Well hear more about that. But were going to take a break right now and well be back with the reverend and our new guest. 0. Welcome back to mosaic. Weve added another colleague here to the show. Welcome, Bishop Jackson. But your full name is rev vand bishop ernie jackson. But ive been told i can call you Bishop Jackson, is that right . Thats fine. Thats fine. Good. Good. You serve at Grace Tabernacle church in bay views hunter point. Yes. That has perfect i apent costal tradition a pent cost al. Tell us about pent costal christianity and your particular parish. It really is comes out of the new testament, the book of acts. And american pent costal is actually started in 1906 in los angeles. Its belief in the outpour of the holy spirit that dwells within and is evidenced by speaking of uncs. So pentecostals is a movement to be honor with you. And its a fastmoving in central and south america and africa. Many of us believe that pent costal is in every church that will receive it. In churches here in america. So as a classical pentecostal, our we believe in as i said, we evolved out of the 1906 experience in last los angeles. So when someone comes to worship there, what will they experience there . Its a highly spirited experience. Singing. Music. Music. Preys worship, drums, organ. Tambor evens. Clapping and people expressing their thanks and praises to god. Are you leading the services apastor or is the spirit leading the service . How does that work . We believe the spirit leads. But there is theres a form and theres theres an order. Yeah. But we we feel that fill that by the holy spirit. And we invite people to freely express how the spirit is leading them in worship. So there might be a time of testimony . Yes. Yeah. One of the things, however, that has shifted in the church is we dont have a traditional testimony services that we used to have, which a period of time was just blocked out for people to talk about an experience that they had and how god delivered them and helped them how they were divinely healed. We believe in divine healing. I myself have prayed for many people with some very dreaded diseases. And they theyve been healed. So we flow in that vain of the spirit as well. Reporter vein of the spirit as well. Your congregation is located in bay view Hunters Point. Yes. Tell us about the congregation itself and what ministries youre involved in in your neighborhood and in the community. Our congregation is probably like a lot in San Francisco. Black Church Congregation where we have people that come to our service that live as far as away as sacramento. And as far south as san jose. Our associate pastor, reverend dr. Robinson, she comes from san hoe say. And so people people are commuting in. And one of the reasons why, is theres the attachment to the ministry, but what has influenced the migration of the the commuting is theres an outmigration of african in San Francisco. It is now below 3 and has been a tremendous impact to our congregations. Not just mine, but even dr. Amos brown of the baptist church. Hes experiencing it. That was considered at one time a black mega church in San Francisco. All of our congregations are being impacted by it. But those who come in, they have they love the ministry and they have a loyalty to the church. Wonderful. Were going to hear more about your ministry and your two ministries after we take a break this morning. ,. We are back with our guests this morning. Bishop jackson from grace at that better knack el, both tabernacle in San Francisco. But both located in very, very different neighborhoods. I want to start with you Bishop Jackson, how did you connect with reverend john and calvary presbyterian church. Its a very fascinating church. I was actually attending a piece down in sanford hosted by mr. Bland. And i got a phone call, a cold call. Uhoh. From the reverend who expressed a desire to meet me in person, marion staton. Suggested that john get in touch with me. And we began to talk about some of the issues that were affecting the africanamerican community. So what precipitated what precipitated the phone call, then . Well, after the charleston massacre, i think, like many church felt compelled across the country, envisioning this church that had welcomed a man into their inner circle, into their bible stud, and then having him turn on hem was heartbreaking. When speaking with marion from the seminary as bishop had mentioned, she grew up in alabama and just expressed the sentiment that San Francisco often seems more divided than her hometown growing up. We did not feel like just offering a pray in a Worship Service and then moving on like everything was all right. Was appropriate and wanted to take some kind of a next step. And that led us to Bishop Jackson. So the two of you are developing a friendship, a relationship with each other. Youve been involved with worshipping in each others congregations. Yes. What do you admire the other . You know, being a pentecostal, i am am very familiar with the form of wereship we have. The highspirited worshipping. John has a pipe organist and i enjoy hearing the pipe organ and he has a wonderful choir. So its the refreshing change for me. But also its the spirit the spirit at calvary is very welcomingment and our congregation enjoys going to calvary and participating in our service. And i think the same is with the calvary congregation as well. What do you enjoy . Sometimes presbyterian are named the frozen chosen. I thought that was lutherans. Well, maybe its all of us. But Bishop Jackson through the spirit is helping to thaw us out in meaningful ways when we worship together his prayers so powerful and feel directly from the spirit that i hear from people who have never even worshipped at another church who are just drawn and feel moved in ways that they havent in the past. And Bishop Jackson is so involved in the community, you know, he doesnt talk a lot about himself. But when ive been out at Different Community events, the quiet way in which he leads and speaks up when necessary is an inspiration to me. And the man can play the organ, this hammond b3. Hes a great musician. His congregation has wkd us now multiple times. When we come in, sometimes presbyterians including myself can be very awkward huggers. We dont know what to do. Ive never been hugged and welcomed more warmly in any church than i have at Grace Tabernacle. Its wonderful to hear. Are your are there relationships being developed between your members . Are you do you see that happening as well between your congregational members. One in particular that i would like to point out, to a shoutout about is david barns is the youth. Director of youth ministries. And director of huge ministries and weve all connected with david is we did praise and worship at calvary. And she it was our first time there and so we were inching our way along and feeling our way, but theres a point in worship where you lose yourself and youre into the spirit. And so she said this is the way we do it at grace. And she was singing a song about dancing before the lord. And she said, is there anyone that would love to dance before the lord with me . And david barns who is a wonderful brother in christ came out and he just went out with adrian. And david is responsible for breaking the ice, if you will, at calvary because the rest of the congregation felt at liberty to go forth and worship the way we did. So it was a very pentecostal moment. Yeah, a beautiful moment. Absolutely. It sounds like. Yeah. You mentioned that you dont want to exploit certainly a horrific situation that happened in charleston, but rather youre using that as an opportunity to bridge gaps and develop relationships between your two congregations. Where do you see this going . Well, idealy and bishop please chime in here, through city hall, throughout the city, through places where voices of justice sometimes arent heard as fully as they otherwise would be. And absolutely. I work very closely with the center for innovation and ministry at the seminary. And i think theres an opportunity for john and i and grace and calvary to do some things that will probably be innovative here in the city and county. Our desire is to work with the with mayor utley and chief sur in dealing with some of the issues that we serious issues that we have. You probably know about the shooting of mario woods. And that night, calvary and grace were together. We were walking the streets and having prayer in bay view harris point the very night that mario was shot and killed. And it just reinforced in the divine work that the work we were doing, the work we are doing, is much needed and necessary. And it really forced the bond between our two congregations that night. As a response to the shooting. Absolutely. You worked together. We worshipped together. We were already out that night together. So everyone was out with the candles, the idea is that we would have a walk and go to different places where people had had been killed. And that was already planned and Bishop Jackson called about two hours before and told us about marios shooting. And people still proceeded, david shoot came out that night as well to join us. But many eyes were opened that evening. What a powerful community statement. Yeah. That your two congregations made together. Were going to hear more about those kinds of opportunities in just a minute after we take a break. 0. Welcome back to mosaic. I have with me this morning two pastoral colleagues, two friends now. Reverend john weems, calvary presbyterian, Bishop JacksonGrace Tabernacle. Both serving congregations in San Francisco. Very different neighborhoods. As we shared earlier, we had discussed, or we just realized that some of your congregations had never been to each other neighborhood. When did they learn in that experience . Well, in in our case and some people sheepishly said ive lived in San Francisco for decades and ive never been to bay view Hunters Point. Maybe i went to a niners game. But not many people not venturing beyond their comfort zones. What our people learned again, in addition to the warm welcome received at Grace Tabernacle, was really how small the city is. How inner connected we really are. Some didnt realize riding the bus connects you from the walk and the bus will drop you off right at calvary. So were continuing to learn how deeply connected our city is and how issues, police interactions, et cetera, do impact all of us, regardless of our neighborhood. Wonderful. Were connected and yet its easy to believe we are not connected. Absolutely. Bishop jackson what did your people learn when they visited Pacific Heights, calvary presbyterian. I think one of the things is unfortunately with with africanamericans, theres always a hyper sense hyper sense sensety. Being welcomed with such warmth really changed the minds and attitudes of most of the people in our congregation. And i hear comments like, i love i love it when calvary comes to grace. Or i love it when we go to calvary. And its weve been very mindful not to try to exploit a tragic situation or to try to exploit each other and give the perception that were just in it for the moment. This is were in this for the long haul. We both have cornerstones in our ministry of social justice. And we believe that the call of christ is to not state in the same in the sanctuary but to go into the highways and the hedges and give a message to those who are hurting, those who are marginized and those who have been disenfranchised by the powers at beand in the city where they dwell. You talked about going to city hall together. And i would like to hear a bit and i know our listeners would like to hear, what is the work that the two congregations are doing with the Police Commission and the needed changes on our police force. I see it as an uphill battle because so far, the mayor has not heard our voice. And and neither has the chief. And weve we have some things in mind that we feel that are very important for policing in bay view Hunters Point that would help forge a better relationship so that our people dont have to be afraid that if they stop theyre going to be shot. And the police are not on edge that somebody is trying to do harm to them as well. But its going to take a lot of work. But we need people like mayor utley and the chief to listen to to what we have to say. We believe we have a compelling story to tell and argument. And we have some solutions that might be helpful. And we just dont have time to talk about them on this show. Well, whats significant is you want to do this Work Together as two congregations. One from our perspective, if someone was shot outside of calvary at jackson, it would be a frontpage story. One of the times when we worshipped with Bishop Jackson, aman had been shot right down the street and it was buried inside the paper. You had to go look for it to find it. That is not right. And we, from Pacific Heights to the bay view and everything in between, wish to be a voice to raise those concerns. What a learning for both of your congregations. And a deepening of faith as well. You also do some fun things together and there is an event coming up in april that could can be described as a celebration. Share about that event. Well, our church is blessed to have probably one of the most prolific song writers and gifted musicians in the country. His name is steven roberts. And steven heads up a group gospel music workshop in northern california. Its a delegation of singers about approximately 100 singers. And were going to be coming to calvary and actually the calvary some of the calvary choir members are going to be joining in with the gospel music workshop and were going to have a concert in april. Whats the date . April 17th. Time. 55 00 p. M. Everyone is invited. Im going to invite Saint Marks Lutheran Church to the concert. Thank you so mu