Called marriage meetings for a lasting love. Welcome debbie and marcia. Shall we say naomi or marcia . Either i go by naomi. So how did you each come to the idea of your respective books . Debbie, how did you come to keeper of the scale . Well, i actually have a real life diet partner. Call her diet buddy. And we used to meet atal a store actually a store sort of similar to the scene where i set my book scene in. We talked about anything and everything but not dieting and we sort of gave up don dieting and had fun meeting and said one day i was in the store with her. And i looked around and i thought you know i have this crazy idea for a book. And from there it sort of like just took on a life of its own. And as circumstances had it i happened to be doing an article for a magazine on a local jewish author jr. What braff and he put me in touch with his publicist. They said if you have some sample chapters ill give it to the editor here, at algonquin publishing. And at that point i hadnt written a word. I hurried and got some chapters to them and then over the course of really five years, this editor back and forth read my entire book. So thats sort of got kept me going actually. Wonderful motivation. Yeah. And naomi how did you come to your book . My book started shortly after i got married. I was considered the expert that agencies who taught other therapists how to work with couples and families. And then i got married. After id been doing that far long time i got married. For a long time. I got married. And i realized that its really different from the inside when you marry than from the outside when you can be objective. And during very shortly after we got married. We heard about this class called time for a better marriage and we took the class. It was about eight weeks and one evening a week. And just a few minutes were spent on the idea of having a weekly marriage meeting. And that was what we took from the class. And really really used and consciously implemented and then one thing led to another, and i after a while. I published an article about marriage meetings and i started giving seminars and workshops. And finally, the book evolved from that. Fantastic. And i know well talk a little bit later about writing style, everybody sort of has their own particular way of literally writing whether its pen, paper on the computer. But im wondering if you might talk a little bit debbie about how you actually came to publish your book. After i finished this book and i had been going back and forth with the editor. His name is chuck adams a very wellknown editor. But they published that type of thing. As chick lit. He suggested arame should get an agent and thats one of the hardest things you can do is to get an agent because they only talk about 1 of writers on. But i pitched and pitched and i think i must have sent out to like 60 sect agents and acts and final i agents and finally i got a really good agent and he pitched it to all the Publishing Houses. Great foodback but unfortunate at that time this genre of chick lit was pretty much dead. And he was trying and trying and i thought i dont know if i want to wait. I dont know how long this could take. Is it ever going to happen and at a certain point i was getting good feedback from the Publishing Houses although they were saying they were not taking on any for hem right now more people right now with chick lit. Just decided so selfpublish it. I just went on through amazon. And it started out asen ebook. And an ebook. And then i did it through create space as a pretty on demand and print on demand and it just got picked up barnes noble and ive been getting great feedback actually im on good reads and readers from all over the world and reading it which i was really surprised. But i think independent publishing is really changing. It seems like its much more respectable way to go than it used to be. Is this ending. I mean how did you come to publish your book . I met the editorial director of my publisher, new world library, at a conference. National womens Book Association conference in san francisco. And she said shed like to see my book proposal when it was ready. So i sent it to her. And i had also been talking with an agent who i like very much. Weve become friends. Her name is katherine sands. But before either of us committed, georgia told me that they wanted to publish my book. Wonderful. Naomi, debbie were going to come back in just a moment here after a quick break on mosaic. Nature valley crunchy granola bars contain 1 3 of your daily whole grains, so 1 3 of this commercial is dedicated to what you could do with all that energy. 1 3 of your daily whole grains means energy to take the road less traveled. Welcome back to mosaic. Im rabbi eric weiss and pleased to be your host. When the middle of a wonderful conversation in honor of jewish book month. National novel writing month, and national nonfiction writing month. And so wed like to reintroduce you to debbie cohen, author of keeper of the scale. And marcia naomi berger, author and psychotherapist and author of marriage meetings for a lasting love. Welcome back naomi and debbie. We were talking about the ways in which you got published. Naomi, you got published in what people might think of a traditional day with a publisher and Publishing House and debbie you actually self published and by demand i guess you could say, barnes noble now picked up the book and theres just different ways of publishing and so i wonder for anybody out there who is in the middle of writing their book, looking for a publisher, just thinking about this issue. What kind of words of wisdom and encouragement you have for getting a publisher and getting your work out there. Well, i would say you know, maybe first try and go through the traditional route. If thats what you really want. But if that doesnt work out, to not give up. And to dont despair over it. That theres the ways nowadays just a whole new world in publishing. And even some established publishers have even jumped over to selfpublishing the theyre very wellknown and they can make more money that way. Its sort of like the options are changing. And to not get discouraged if at first you dont succeed. Well, i would say the first thing to do is to really write the best book that you can. You have a first draft or a second draft and you may have five or ten drafts or even more but you want to turn in the best work and you do get the best chance of having an agent or a publisher. If you want to get your book published, you can get it published one way or another. So just concentrate on doing your job to get the best work you can and hire if youre going to do it independently, hire editors and work well with your publisher when you get one. You know, i was thinking earlier that in any culture, literacy takes on many, many different forms. And in our particular culture, in lets say the americas, literacy primarily is the written word. Reading, writing, being engagement with the word, the ways in which that then stimulates imagination and teaches what we learn. Critical thinking. And im wondering in this world whether theres so much that goes on where content arrives whether its on the web or on the computer or in the newspaper, or in literally a book that you hold, there are electronic books, there are kindle books and i wonder from your perspective now as published authors, what do you think about this notion of the importance of language . The importance of writing, reading, and engagement with language as a kind of foundation to a vital and healthy culture . Well, i think its just its important to get people reading. And especially young people. Reading and engaged no matter what the form. And nowadays, so many you know young people are using the ereaders and the ebooks and if they prefer to read it that way, fine, at least theyre reading or for people who prefer some older people still really just want the real book they can hold. Great. I just think as long as theres many options of ways that people can read. The important thing is to read. And to get reading out there. And naomi, how did you actually write . Did you handwrite literally . Did you wry on the computer . I write every which way but mostly on the computer. But i will if i have an idea and im in bed ill pull out a pad and start writing that. And then will bring it to the computer and develop it and a better way. And debbie, how did you actually write . I wrote mostly on the computer. But also i always had a notepad with me and if i was sometimes the idea would come in the shopping store. Sometimes id be at the carpool picking up my kids and i had just an idea i hurried and would scribble it down. And then later id go to the computer with it. But you have to always have to note pad. I abrie with you. Agree with with you. The writing process is in some ways very complex sometimes. Its somebody has a very disit the discipline. Im wondering its kind of a big question, but how to you write . Do you wait for a moment ovens ration and literally just sit down no matter what in your schedule and whether you feel like it or not you write for an hour . How literally do you engage yourself in literally the act of writing . I have a background as a journalist. So im used to writing on deadline whether you feel like it or not. You cant really wait for the muse. I think that actually helped me because of course there were many times i didnt feel like writing but i had to. I just made myself the deadline that i have to do so much. Even if i dont feel like it. And i think thats just thanks to years of having to write on deadlines. And naomi . Well, i like knowing that somebody cares that im writing. Its hard for me to write if im not going to get some feedback on it. So i like being in writing critique groups. I need something ready to send by a certain date. That was really important for me. I dont wait for inspiration. Its great when it comes but if im going to writement i sit down and write and i will often block out time in my appointment book. Im going to be writing from this time until this time. Interesting. Naomi and debbie, believe it or not were coming to the end of our time together. Were going to welcome in just a moment Howard Freedman from the Jewish Community library and in the meantime we want to thank debbie and naomi for spending their time with us and enjoying their books debbie and naomi, thank you so much for being with us. Its beenly pleasure. Thank you my pleasure. Thank you. Well be right back here in just a moment on mosaic. Welcome back to mosaic. Im rabbi eric weiss, and honored to be your host. Were joined now by Howard Freedman whos the librarian of the Jewish Community library here in san francisco. Welcome howard. Thanks. Thanks for having me. So whats new at the Jewish Community library . Theres always something new. Because there are always books coming out. But we have a lot of programs at the library. One of the programs im most excited about is a year long program that we have called one day, one book. And thats where we invite the Community Everybody in the community, to read a single book and discuss it and discuss its themes. The book we selected for the current year is i dont know if you can see this. We hold it up and just put it right here. The new novel called the betrayers and its a really interesting novel. David is originally from latvia. Hes a young writer and this is about an israeli politician who was once a soviet dissident and he unexpectedly find himself back in ukraine where hes face toface with the man who had betrayed him to the kgb. And the hitch is that he sort of lacks the moral high ground that you would expect when hes confronting the man. Because we the readers know that this man is having an affair and betraying his own wife and family. And so its really about the murkiness of morality. And makes a lot of references to the bible. To the story of king david who also was a you know sort of a hero at one level and also had a very sort of problematic moral career. And interesting. So the issue of betrayal on both the personal and interpersonal and on the more communal. Exactly. Yes. Set against the backdrop of history and at the same time it is intensely personal. Its an historic nonfiction . Its not historic. I mean it takes place in history but its a work of fiction. And its one of the interesting things is how many themes it draws out and one of them is to look at this history that for you know, for you and me was really just part of lives being the breakup of the soviet union and the yearning for jews to get out of the soviet union and now looking back at that as history. And sort of trying to find the meaning in that. And so somebodys interested in one day, one book in this particular novel then how do they participate . They can actually just go to our theres a website onedayonebook. Com and they can as an institution actually join in. Whether they have a book group or actually affiliated with an institution. They can actually get books from us and sort of have a sponsored book discussion. Our idea is really to bring the library out into the community so that we can have exchanges of ideas really where people are at. Whats really nice is that when people have book discussions it goes way beyond the book itself. Thats what we really like is for books to stimulate meaningful discussions. I think one of the reasons people join the book club is for the conversation about what theyre reading and comment. And how what is the elixir there that leads them to sharing more personally about ones life among the members of the book club that goes beyond the topic of the book itself . What do you think is at work there . I thinks the one of the powers of literature. Is that really when we are ohm pathic with the characters in a book, it stimulates our thinking about our own lives and others lives and thats the case whether the issues are ones that are really are ones that are relevanttous personally or to us personally or you may find that something isnt resonant but for us individually but when were within a group, there may be somebody else for whom that experience is powerful. And for us to be able to hear and Exchange Ideas with that person that expands our own understanding of the world around us. So i think its its a unique experience and when you dont participate, and just simply read alone you lack that kind of social dimension and ive come to believe that thats really important. So in a way really the book club is a kind of crew of social interaction and community building. I think so. Yeah. And so the library essentially provides the scaffolding for a book club. So do you literally go into the book clubs themselves and facilitate the conversations or do you give suggestions for it . Or how does the architecture of it work from the viewpoint of the library . It is really according to what the book group needs. So sometimes we provide a facilitator, sometimes we have a whats called book club in a box program and we provide the physical books free of charge and other times we just simply provide resources. We prepare dit cushion guides for the book and for a lot of other books. Howard a quick break and please join us back in just a moment here on mosaic. Good morning, and welcome back to mosaic. Im rabbi eric weiss, were in the middle of a wonderful conversation with Howard Freedman the director of the jewish Communities Library here in san francisco. We were talking earlier about a book club that one book, one day. And im wondering what other programs you can tell folks about at the Jewish Community library. So the library has a lot of Public Programs and theyre all free and theyre available i mean anybody can attend. Certainly dont have to be jewish. And one thing we try to do as a library both in our collection and also in our programs is to provide lots of different inroads to the jewish experience. Meaning that we focus on literature and also focus on history and on music, art. Film. And so for example, this coming thursday, well have a program by a visiting israeli scholar and performer about hee brie poetry primarily from the Medieval Times and primarily set to music that really took it took root in north africa and the arab world among jewish communities and theyre doing a workshop. That will be happening at the library this thursday. Next month related to the book that i mentioned. Well have robert alter, the professor of hebrew literature at uc berkeley present on the psalms because the psalms also plays a significant part in this novel and one of this things we like to do is to tie it in to have programs that are related to its different themes and sort of branches. Then we have other film and music programs and literary programs. And thats basically what we do throughout the year. Making connections between the literature that we have on the shelves and events and opportunity for people to come together around them. Wonderful. You know, libraries i think have become such a common place that they are as if the air we breathe. And so whether its a Public Library or a Public Library, people are just used to having a library to go to or to explore and yet, libraries need to buy books. And they need to pay rent. And they need to make decisions about the kind of folks that they employ to support readers that come through the door and im wondering, how does the Jewish Community library gain its support to buy the books for its shelves and the periodicals and the newspapers for people to come in as if its the air they breathe . Thats tough. Fortunately, we are actually a program of jewish learning works which is a nonprofit organization. So that provides some of our scaffolding. And we also have a friends of the Jewish CommunityLibrary Organization which were very dependent on and very grateful for. But the truth is that its a real challenge to be a library in the 21st century. There is a perception among many people that a ply bay area and physical books are something of the past. Basically i have a vested interest in an opposite opinion and i also think that as we do have sort of a contraction in many ways with bookstores shutting, with video stores shutting and some libraries in in retreat in a sense, that the role of the libraries that we do have actually is become becomes more important and thats even more important with some very sort of specific special Interest Library like our own. Because it i dont think sod to be that synagogues had libraries often and it used