Would 7 K.P.S. Get to the people rather. It. With the. With the. With the. With. With. With the. With the. With. With the. With the Justice Brett Kavanaugh the face of new uninvestigated allegations of sexual impropriety when he was in college the G.O.P. Controlled Senate confirmed Kavanagh last October after emotional hearings over a sexual assault allegation from his high school years the New York Times now reports that Kavanagh faced a separate allegation from his time at Yale and that the F.B.I. Did not investigate the claim Cavanaugh has denied all allegations of impropriety California senator and presidential candidate Camelot Harris told N.P.R. The allegations against Cavanagh. We're never given a thorough investigation you know our. Guys I mean I think it activation and I don't know what the level of attention that normally would have around crime is out of. Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren New Jersey Senator Cory Booker and former HUD secretary who Leon Castro were among the other candidates calling for a Kavanagh's impeachment former vice president and front runner Joe Biden said the matter needs looking into hundreds of thousands of people are expected to join worldwide demonstrations this week ahead of a U.N. Climate summit in New York as unions and some businesses lend their support for faster action to fight climate change organizers said today that more than $400.00 rallies are planned in Germany alone for Friday's global climate strike campaigners are also staging protests in Australia Japan India South Africa most other European countries the U.S. And Canada climate change has become an increasingly important issue for voters in recent years particularly in Europe and Germany Chancellor Angela Merkel's government plans to announce a package of measures that would put the country on course to cut its emissions 55 percent by 2030 compared with 1990 levels a report released last year by U.N. Science panel concluded that there is still a chance to meet the 2015 Paris climate accords goals of keeping global temperatures from rising more than one and a half degrees Celsius by 2100 compared to pre-industrial times but achieving this would require drastic measures including ending the use of fossil fuels such as oil gas and coal by mid century. There's a massive search underway for $35.00 Indian tourists missing after a double decker sightseeing boat capsized in a flooded river in southern India drowning at least 12 people. Rebecca Bundanoon has more. People drowned after the boat capsized on a river in the south Indian state of Andhra Pradesh although some people were rescued there are still many people who are missing officials are told local media that there are many boat operators that don't follow the necessary safety rules all of the passengers on the boat were Indian nationals are back abundant Mumbai. And I'm Max Pringle letters in politics is next good day and welcome to letters and politics and it's just award winning author. Is Here he was shortlisted for the Man Booker Prize for his novel Sea of Poppies in 2008 his novels and non fiction writings often span the globe and their work in the world's real dilemmas into them especially that of climate change His latest novel is called Gun island and it is rooted in a Bengali folk tale I'm a tough Goshen a very good pleasure talking to you to our radio station thank you for being here thank you much thank you very much for having me it's a great pleasure to be here it's good to have you here in Berkeley and you'll be having an event for our home station K P.F.A. At the 1st Congregational Church on Tuesday at 730 that's right and I'm very grateful to keep your faith for going to sing it and we will announce those details as we go along in the conversation you know in preparing for our chat I watched a few videos of interviews that you have done previously and I saw this one video and this one conversation you were in that really made me think about your writing in your approach to it and the interviewer asked you about your book being about climate change and you said no no it's not about climate change it's about the world I'm paraphrasing the world as it is yes that's exactly what I would say are 3 my book is the reality of the world we're in the reason I feel resistant to you know the description of the book as being about climate changes because it makes it seem as though it were about something separate from the for from you know normal already for that it's about the future. What's to come whereas these realities are here you know the reality of today's very much inflicted by what's happening in the atmosphere. And. Her book from 2016 The great to range meant. You charge a contemporary fiction has failed to treat climate change as a central issue. I would I would have said that. I charge myself for having failed to address this issue and in my work and I was there I talked of that book The Great Derangement is really being about you know a kind of introspection that's the what makes it difficult for us you know our writers artists and so on what makes it difficult for us to look at this reality and understand this reality because it's there it's as I said again it's completely unfolding all around us and it's you know I guess know in California you're very aware of it because of the wildfires and so on and our you know but you know I'm from that part of the world which is very exceptionally low level you know this is Bengal Yeah you know the Bengal Delta. Which is you know by all kinds of impacts and people are very very badly affected so I guess it's been on my mind for a long time and the Bengal felt this is eastern Indian Bangladesh and you tell me a little bit about that region Yes Well. The Bengal Delta really it comes out of the confluence of 2 great river systems the Ganges and the Brahmaputra these are very many rivers so it creates this huge delta and it's a very it's very heavily populated almost star you know if you take the if you take Bangladesh plus the Indian part of Bengal which is called the West Bengal it's almost 280000000 people and all of these are you know a very large percentage lived within one metre of sea level rise and the seas have been rising quite inexorably and you know at the same time there's a sort of manmade impact which. The Delta systems all over the world are thinking you know because of our water extraction and so on and at the same time the Bay of Bengal is notorious for its side clones and these are clones have been hitting this region for a long time actually the worst natural disaster of the 20th century was the cycling in 1970 there killed you know around the world half a 1000000 people. So you know it's I mean today that they shot and the West Bengal had become much better at dealing with psycho and especially you know because their early warning systems and so on. But what actually happens is that you it's possible to get people out of harm's way but then when the psycho nor the honey can as it's called in America when it hits it creates such devastation that it actually takes a very long time for people to get back to normal life if indeed they have to do it you know I mean you've seen this in behind in the Bahamas just the other day you know yeah. And dangling language as you said at the center of what we're seeing concerning the climate sea level rise Why didn't want Island already have to be evacuated. Yes So it's an island called Bull island and half of it went underwater but you know this is the thing when we think about island sinking we tend to think about Pacific Islands. But you know the entire populace population of Tuvalu in the Pacific is like 10000 whereas this one island you know. The sinking of half of the displaced or half a 1000000 people where they go. You know there's a lot of internal migration within monger nation and then there's a lot of migration you know across the Bay of Bengal and also there's a lot of migration to other countries to the Middle East to Europe. OK So more and more of that as that caused issues itself the migration do you know what yes yes it's been a very major issue I mean you know as you can see one of the weird impacts of climate change is there are political fall out of migration I mean you know you just truth that our social systems our political systems are so much more fragile than we had imagined I mean imagine 10 years ago if someone had said to you or to me that the. Political systems of the Western world or Europe of America would be completely up ended by the arrival of a relatively small number of people yeah would we have believed that yeah you know and that's actually happened I mean Britain which is like you know being so stable for so long you know I mean just look at it it's in complete shambles because there are so. Because a few people created this care about people from Poland settling in Britain and so on and who you know actually even you think about it it just doesn't make sense to bit scary when you describe it that way I think a lot of the migration it was seen specially in Europe over the last 10 years or so then because of wars and civil wars but as we see the changes that are going to occur because of climate change this is only just the beginning oh yes this is just the beginning I'm saluting. Of course some people say there's a connection to climate change and what and what happened in Syria to you know is that essentially of no and that is certainly being argued because there was a long Syrian drought but you know what we do know is that there's a mega drought in the Mediterranean region and it's going to go on for a very long time and actually you know if you go to say in southern Europe for example if you go to Sicily you know it's very striking that it's not just people who are migrating it's the entire ecosystem of the sound of that's migrating so Mrs Lee is also being hit by a negative note it's been hit by these going to we're. Runaway wildfires they have a major water problem there because of the drought you know there are cities there which only get water at certain times of the week yeah so you know these these impacts really accelerating everywhere. Even include this dynamic you're right enough an island I do you know I mean you know as I said again my book is about this reality this reality that's unfolding around us you know I think you know we the question is not what the my the question we have to ask ourselves is how is it possible to do to write about the world that we're in without noticing these things you know how is it possible to carry on writing as though we were in 1000 century or in the mid 20th century when all that really mattered was how people felt or you know. Or what their lives were private lives were like you know because you tell it literature to largely is or is largely doing there is a lot of that isn't there I mean there's a lot of I think which is that what happened over the course of the 20th century especially in the latter half of the 20th century is that literature became increasingly. Personal increasingly individual and retreated deeper and deeper into the individual consciousness if you like you know and it's very hard to come out of that people I mean I mean these are the writers that today's writers are growing up reading and they emulate right magic exactly but you know there are other models I mean I think of for example if a Californian the great John Steinbeck you know you know and I mean he's been His know who the Grapes of Wrath is absolutely about in a sense about can't change I mean the 1st chapter of the book I mean could be about today. It's a magnificent novel The skating that US will greatly California from migrating to California earlier and you know it's very interesting how Steinbeck row. Because you know he spent you know the visiting migrant camps are talking to them about talking to my grandson you know listening to their stories. So it came out a full sort of long interaction you know it came out of this long process of observing the reality of the world and you know you can imagine what California was like in those days you know these old trucks crammed with people with buckets and things hanging out of them you know but you know that's a reality that's repeating itself today you know I also think of Mary Shelley reading Frankenstein 816 my understanding is when she's writing this it's after a major volcanic eruption in the world that occurred that kind of plunged Europe in the darkness it plants the whole world into dark. The mount you know that's right if you need me in what's now Indonesian but this month I'm going to pump so much dust and debris into the air that it actually led to a sort of massive global cooling so it was popularly known as the. 815 as the year without of that without a summer Yeah which actually led to the book of science fiction because it so happened that Lord Byron was in he rented a house near Lake Geneva and Mary Shirley and her husband the porch Sally was were also in Lake Geneva. And Lord Byron he had his secretary with him I'm forgetting his name in Italian so he said let's write a let's write a story about you know what we're experiencing so Mary Shelley came up with Frankenstein and love burning incense came up with the 1st vampire story interesting. Interesting times they were living through that interesting times we're living through that now. Yes exactly we encourage I guess fiction could be anything that anyone wants it to be whether if you try to place it in grapple with today's world or. The thing about fiction you know is that meeting all about art or whatever it is that you think exactly it is that it could be about anything but actually within within art within fiction there already is all kinds of conventions you know which push it in a certain direction. And I think it's interesting to cover those conventions you know because it gives you a sense of gives you a sense of for you know why people write in a certain way and so for example one of the one of the great conventions of fiction the is about settings and placements you know so fiction is very often about a certain you know it would be set in a small town it could be winds were go higher order could be New York or it could be Berkeley and the writer has the right they develop you know they try to please the reader if you like within the thinking. Now the problem about the world that we live in today is that these things don't exist in the same way anymore you know it's very hard to write about our reality without taking account of the ways in which now place is everywhere interpenetrate each other it's partly because of technology because of you know. Because of the Internet and so on but it's also because there's almost a sort of physical displacement you know I mean there are the people who are displaced to begin with you know and also because the weather systems and everywhere are changing so suddenly I mean if you read Jane Austen today it's hard to believe that you know the temperature of the weather in England is not sometimes hotter than in India you know I'm right in that in Victorian novels I mean you know industry men all this fame thing when they break into a sweat and. Know. That you know the very well they're devastating he plays devastating he believes Yeah across Europe I mean there are this some of them are 2 major heatwaves in Europe. It makes me think you know movies television. That it's a whole maybe a little behind of the world we're entering. That is absolutely right Actually that is absolutely right I mean you know even now when you turn on say for example something like the Discovery Channel or something you get these beautiful vistas for you know lovely places where they never show you you know you see the ocean what you don't see is the plastic you know that's so killing in this ocean and it's really our media drowning under our own waste and actually that is really what it is you know for. Centuries No you know human beings have consumed in such a way as if you know their ways to didn't matter I mean after all what is this carbon dioxide or what are these greenhouse gases that we are emitting you know I mean basically there are there are forms of waste you know and no there's no escaping the waste it's all around us and an island takes place all over the world and particular takes place in Brooklyn or New York. The Bay of Bengal. As well as Venice and any reason for these particular places. I'm sure there is. Well in one sense I suppose I was trying to sort of explore the you know the connections within the world which is something that I've been doing for a long time with all my books but. In this particular book it took a certain form you know the 1st place I didn't want to write only about one place I feel that if you're writing today you have to acknowledge this reality which is you know this kind of a global interpenetration you know and it busts on me all of the time because you know in Brooklyn 30 years ago you very rarely met someone who could speak Bengali now I open my window and I can hear people speaking in the street and it's the same in Italy so you know that reality is really kind of changed it's shifted in some important way so I wanted one part of them are for all of this book is actually set in California and it was a very curious thing writing that section. Because. It's a chapter set in Los Angeles there's a great museum in it and suddenly there's a wildfire which is coming towards the museum so they have to evacuate. And as you know this actually happened I think it was last year to go there to the Getty Museum but you know the really weird thing that really weird an uncanny thing is that I wrote that chapter before it happened. You know and this is one of the curious things that we see today. Around the world that. Fact is outrunning fiction you know often it happens now that you know you write about something and suddenly it happens it's all happening happening sooner then he died and I say we I mean generally speaking sure there's it's happening much sooner than we thought and it's going to it seems to be it seems that it's going to exit or it yeah I think this is one of the means of our going is scientists are surprised you know because everything that they had predicted seems to be happening much faster than they had imagined earlier in the stairs go Bay area known for its. Climate temperate temperate climate known for its beautiful views usually because we're right at the ocean our air can be quite nice and then 2 years in a row we just had We're inundated with smoke from the wild fires and never mind was having where the fires are happening as well but leap year it just completely transformed everything the way the way we lived for weeks I know our. Yesterday I heard that the air quality here was often as bad as it is in Beijing or Delhi which is kind of so unbelievable but it's not just California it's all the way up the west coast as far as actually know as far as Alaska they have so many wildfires going on there you know I mean when you look at when you look at what's actually happening the way that it impacts I was you know it is terrifying enough but just imagine if you how it impacts I move how it impacts trees how we can back to you know all these other elements so far. Of our world you know this is letters and politics and we are in conversation with award winning author gauche His latest book is called Gun island for listeners in the stereoscope area gauche will be speaking at the 1st Congregational Church in Berkeley that is on Tuesday night starting at 7 30 pm 2345 Chani way in Berkeley will get those details again a little bit later in the book Gun island. It end to your story in itself is somewhat based on a Bengali folk tale Yes What is that folk tell. Oh it's a very ancient story you know it's about. A merchant or a you know you could call him a trader or a businessman and his conflict with the goddess of snakes you know and the story goes that you know the goddess of snakes wanted him for his. As a devotee but he refused so she pursued him the disasters and calamities and you know until he had to escape across the sea but she still pursued him and pursued him and finally he sort of gives in then he builds a temple to her and so on the reason why this story I think is so interesting to me is because it completely conceptualizes you know the heart of the problem you know which is what is the conflict between the profit motive if you like and what human beings or to. The environment or to the world you know to work to. Other beings of all kinds are animals trees etc So you know we the whole idea of the goddess of snakes is that she is as it were giving voice you know to the world around us to the natural world so in that way you know it's a very interesting and beautiful story I think and it just truisms that you know cows in the of years before today humans already knew of the destructive of their destructive potential you know and they realize that you know there has to be some kind of balance in the world which is in effect what the story is trying trying to do trying to achieve you know it was building a temple finding a balance. I think you know there is the physical act of building a temple if you like but what the what the Temple symbolizes is in some way. Your your recognition. Of the world you know your recognition of the earth you know and if you if you think about it before modern times. This kind of symbolic recognition was very common in human societies I mean let's take Venice perhaps the most recognizable monument in Venice is the Basilica of something many other lesser Luther you know it's magnificent I'm sure you've seen it white marble with this magnificent dome and it was built in the 17th century between 16301670 you know now you know when you see it now you look at it and it's just a beautiful building Yes but it was erected for a particular book which is that in 1630 there was a sort of major time I mean in the 17th century there was a major climatic disruption you know. Especially in Europe it's known as the Little Ice Age and one of its one of its fallouts was. An outbreak of the plague you know and then it was devastated by this plague and after certain point you know the Church Fathers started praying and they I mean the 30 fathers started praying and started great and appealing. To the Virgin Mary and let the legend goes that in fact the plague did Rich start to retreat and then they promised to build this to build this beautiful church but you know so what does that church actually represent I mean it's a kind of memorialise nation of disaster you know and the form of the Virgin in the church is. The Pentagon messed up and you know she is the mud on the mediator you know and she's mediating between the Earth and and there and humans if you learn so people have all of us really in many cultures conceived of this relationship of mediation of recognizing you know. What is out there in the world not to do you think about that think of these terrible wildfires that have been in California. Nobody believes anymore he wants to that you know even in even in Italy today nobody would think that well I think it's because we think we don't know anything to the to the earth deep in our hearts we become convinced of this you know all our monuments now or do ourselves you know and how does how does this how does this Lizzie and happen how is it that we have come to think of ourselves as being as it were. Devoid of earthly dies you know. And you know if you think of letting poetry you know one of the most popular buns in America was this pond which I'm sure you'll remember. It was written by a pilot I think in the twenty's and it has a line slipped the surly bonds of Earth you know which was again quartered by President Reagan after the fall of her team disaster you know slipped the surly bonds of earth and reached for the face of God I forget the exact line but you know if you think of that if you think of the way this is put you can't help wondering why is the earth Surly you know I think. It's true today the earth is very slowly it's a lot sillier than it was 90 years ago you know but why would you describe you know why would you describe the earth in this way it's not only home you know so you know you know or you know sensibility you know there is of expressing our ourselves we have come to be filled with the kind of contempt. You know for this planet you know which is why you know technology entrepreneurs and are dreaming of going to Mars or going anywhere anywhere but here as it were you know it's almost as if. They want to destroy the earth you know so I think we do have to ask ourselves these fundamental imaginative questions you know it's not just a matter of technology or for you know fixes or you know be carbonized nation and so on we have to decarbonize our imagination really the carbon is our imagination. You know we have to we have to go back to thinking in some way any of the. You know in different symbolic terms and in that way I think it is beginning to happen you know are there I don't know if you if you read about this but recently in Iceland. A show disappeared so they actually held a funeral ceremony for it you know and you know this is that kind of thing often happens in indigenous cultures but that this would this that this was happening within a sort of European culture was a very striking thing because Europeans especially over the last 10200 years. For them landscape has become devoid of any kind of sacredness you think religion supported me well it can be you know it depends on the religion. But I think just thinking about the country the creation of the basilica and Venice as altar your time or earlier and then go you know. I think it can be look I mean. Look at what's happening today and how I mounted a mountain that I don't know if you have been following this there was a telescope they want to know that already there are. So many telescopes some are no longer form and they want to know that they want to build a track on top of the mountain and who the people who are protesting it's the. Indigenous elders you know they're not like a bitter or protesters but you know this mountain means something to them it's something important. You know if you think about that. You know you know Westerner would propose building a huge telescope on top of let's say St Paul's Cathedral you know or St Peter's in Rome I mean they wouldn't think of it because you know for them they can understand the concept that a building is sacred you know that it has certain sacred connotations. What they can't understand is that feature of the landscape should be sacred you know that the land itself can be sacred you know and actually but if you think about it why don't. We the land these humans have always considered certain aspects of the land secret. I mean if you just think about it even within Christian traditions Jerusalem is kind of has a certain flea crudeness you know you know. So. I think we have to go back to thinking about the earth and the world in certain symbolic ways if you like me you know or just we have to be have to conceive of it in different ways. It's interesting to think about climate change over history which of course it has changed over history and. And people having to deal with it a year ago or so we did a show with. Harper about and his thesis that climate change played a critical role in the fall of the Roman Empire and he'd say You know I mean there are multiple things going on other than climate change but because again disruptions caused from volcanic volcanic eruptions and these things caused a lot of migration including the Huns. Created pressures upon the empire that are oftentimes are not studied or looked at yes yes I mean now we see that climate change actually I mean a shift in weather patterns that have profound implications for human societies everywhere in the ancient world in the. And later. But you know what's really interesting is actually what happens from the 15th century onwards you know I think the critical event was in many ways the discovery of the Americas. Adam Smith famously said that the most important events in world history were discovered of the Americas and the discovery of the sea route to the Indian Ocean and if you look at climate change in that way as a geopolitical reality rather than you know a technological reality of the present day but the geopolitical continuity from the 15th century on with I think you see something quite. Print because. You know what happened very soon after the European conquest of the Americas. Is that there was a catastrophic mortality amongst the indigenous peoples of the Americas you know some people think that up to 90 or 90 to 95 percent of the indigenous populations burnished you know of disease and war and conflict and so on so so what happened then is that huge tracts of land you know across the Americas resulted to Forest which is why today you know in the South and Central America people are constantly discovering pyramids inside the forest and huge sort of cities that overgrown by forest it was simply that the people just died you know after the after the European conquest and after encountering these diseases and so on you know. So what happened then is that when these forests sprang up over these vast tracts of land they had what's now to talk to the reverse greenhouse effect which is that is they stocked up so much carbon out of the atmosphere. That they had a cooling effect and that along with certain natural variations I mean this is that this is of course a hypothesis but it's increasingly sort of influential. So that was what actually helped to bring about the Little Ice Age. You know. And it's very good to feel for us in almost sort of the death of people the enormous. Sort of reforestation of the Americas so already there you see you know sort of anthropogenic sort of human caused impact upon our global weather systems you know and if that was the case then we would have to say that you know. Essentially after the discovery of the Americas what the world has been living through is a continuous process of death now forming you know it's changing landscapes of changing even the atmosphere I mean you you think about the Americas today I mean essentially they're adopted but you know European. Flora imported a lot of European foreigner as well you know so it completely changed while exterminating the native you know the famous the famous birds carrier pigeons you know there were millions billions of them in the sky Now that they're extinct. A very determined effort was made to eradicate bison populations you know so it was a continuous process of you know. There are forming as well making. And you know when there's a clear continuity between that and the present day it's just it's just the scale is different the explanation is much greater. It's pretty incredible when you study the natural geography of any place in America maybe inflation a world now days. Most species would really plant or vertebrates or whatever that may be or actually and they said species now yes yeah yes absolutely I mean you know and our forests have been colonized by invasive vines from South America you know. I mean actually if you look at the ways in which we've interfered with the with ecology is I mean I suppose human beings of all is interfered with the ecology is but these systems are now reaching some kind of crisis and I almost think this is important of. Parks cardinals in some way I don't know if we're ever going to have and we try to preserve as best we can the areas that are still somewhat intact quote unquote. But maybe what we really have to do is do are we now have to control that's probably a terrible way of saying it nature in conquering it but helping it grow. I think nature. Really. Is going to overwhelm us in some way but look in the 1st place I think one thing we have to remember is that the interaction between humans and the natural world goes back to the beginning of you know human history and humans in many ways know it's a forest you know so the tribes of the Amazon for example you know they play a very large part in the in the ecology and you contra get I think it's very important to remember that a certain kind of conservationism or especially that led to think of parks like Yellowstone and so on were based upon what you might call environmental racism that is massive election of indigenous peoples and the creation of this fiction or for pristine forest you know now we know the forest on pristine ever I mean there always exist in interaction with people who've always lived there and know how to interact with it and it's not just an American or we see this in India there are actually you know it happened on a very large scale in Africa indigenous populations expelled tourists moving interest infrastructure moves in so it becomes a part of a kind of. It's actually the creation of those forests is a part of a kind of for profit profit creation and for some people I mean if you think about it what you actually have over there is a kind. Population exchange you move out the indigenous peoples and moving tourists it's a kind of ethnic cleansing on was I receive that it's one of the it's one of the stranger and terrible ambiguity though for you know that particular approach to conservation if you're like and you certainly see that here in North America the indigenous people wasn't that people had settled the lad exactly for it wasn't just pristine absolutely no no I mean that they had a very large populations we know no you know and they had they had a way of interacting with the land and we increasingly discovered that in fact are there ways of interacting with the land were perhaps much more much more reasonable rational even then I was because simply because they thought about the future they thought you know 7 generations ahead which we don't. I mean to have gauche is our guest so Ward winning novelist His latest book is called Gun island for listeners in a sense the go Bay Area I'm a tough go she will be speaking Tuesday night at the 1st Congregational Church and Berkeley starting at 7 30 pm that is 232345 Chani way downtown Berkeley 1st Congregational Church I'm a time goes you begin your book with a word and that word is but do you mean. You know Arabic. Going to many Indian languages means gun. And actually you know my book takes its title from that word Been book so gun island. I don't think I can say very much more than that except that the book is built around and I'm a logical mystery and you know I often think that this book has all my passions and all my interest invested in it and I've always been very interested in Tamala G.'s and words and the connections between languages or your protagonist but anyway Dean Dean and I guess the American version of his name. Is a rare book dealer Yes Is that another life or what you want to do. Well of course I haven't I spent actually now you know it's what I've spent my whole life reading and you know writing books so books have a very important part in my life and Dean is the rare book that he ends up and an antiquarian and he ends up on the stranger on this strange sort of journey but you know what was interesting to me really is that I think. I think what we're seeing today is the reality that we're seeing today is the product of a. Particular history you know. Often when people write about the contemporary world they projected towards the future to me what's interesting is the way that the past is present in the in the present you know. And that's the that's the part of it that really interests me and that past manifests itself in the present often through language through books through images you know I mean you know the very names let's say San Francisco or Los Angeles I mean you know they're the product of history and they manifest that history in the in the very words you know so I think that's that aspect of it that really draws my imagination you know the book collection. I'm not a collector really no I don't have that sort of collector. Employment I do have a lot of books but I'm constantly trying to give them what so no rare books no no I have no read books. While I was dean or read rare book dealer. You know I thought having your character as a red book. Would make him very dull I wanted to kind of dull character of a kind of bland. Figure but you know I don't think I succeeded in making him like that because everybody always says that they find him very interesting you know. Do you think what do you think if action were to take on the world as it is we're talking about earlier. And not just in novels but maybe in movies T.V. Shows to do you think but do you think that does. Well I would have to think you know that I think are actually a film and T.V. Have been more responsive to fiction you know I mean you know actually curiously if you know. Look at all the serials the look at all the films I mean so many of them are. You know have some connection with. You know the crisis of the present if you like you know. Many of them are dystopian many of them are present the kind of future vision of a sort of dystopian future and so on but I think Schumer's actually have been quite have been quite responsive if you think of that film or to the called The Day After Tomorrow Yeah you know with I mean or what or 15 years yeah yeah I really am probably thinking about 2004 you know as intense for it was an intense 3 I really enjoyed it I thought it was wonderful for the problem though is that you know if we think that shillings and thrills are going to. Are going to make a huge difference then the existence of that film disproves that hypothesis in a way doesn't it. And I think you know we need that's the issue really I mean if films. Television or novels are going to engage with what we have today if they do it in terms of projecting it into a future. Then I think that message gets lost you know because it's what is happening today is not the future and I think this is being a problem with the whole sort of climate change interface along we thought it something down the road exactly you know. The old has been being spoken of in terms of grandchildren and so on but it's not it's nothing like that now it's impacting on of us all our lives our everyday decisions do you have the dystopic view of the future. Look I think it's fairly evident that they're going to be many disco pick impacts but at the same time the the die limit today is that we don't really know about the future because we don't know how human actions will change it's certainly within our hands are to make the future not as bad as it could possibly be. You know so you know these young campaigners and activists I think they're very remarkable and I completely support them and I think it's wonderful that they're doing what they're doing and as they constantly say it's not between. It's not out not to choice between the perfect and the bad you know it's a choice between bad and less bad if you like yeah but less bad could mean any anything it could mean really the difference between dystopia and you know some difficulties ahead and I think that's what should motivate us at this point I guess here in the United States we have a bit of a different political dynamic around climate change than you'd find in other places of the world that you find using one similar let me know and that is climate deniers it's not just the United States it's actually a feature of. What some people call the Anglosphere that is if you see the same thing in Canada you see it also very much in Australia you know. And I think that's an interesting thing because the kind of language to the English language and in a sense to English language yes. I mean if there's been studies of it actually. It's kind of a curious thing but at the same time it's also not a curious thing because after all I mean the whole American economy the whole American worldview the whole has been built on oil you know similarly Australia's economy etc Again built on energy Kowloon. In that case the same is true of Canada I mean you know Justin Trudeau speaks often of you know he makes various sort of gestures towards the climate crisis but you know when push comes to shove you opens up. He makes it possible. To accelerate you know or oil extraction and so on. So you know what can you say I mean we definitely see this today as worrying about the news stories of Saudi Arabia refinery behind their back doing what that's going to mean for the prices of gas on the global market people trying to assure people going to be a short term disruption is really we're painting historic lows for forecasts and there's no end it's not when we talk about that story we're not connecting it to yeah I may change yes there was a time once when people thought that they would be you know that the world would run out of oil in fact what has happened is that we've run out of the space to keep the waste for you know at multiple levels that from from plastic to greenhouse gases. So you know if you look at the petrol economy around the world. It's it's like it's like it's got housing in this sort of death grip I mean look at the whole way of life here anyways and I speak for everyone but here here is so dependent on it even us doing it recording this conversation is relaying. And upon fossil fuels at the moment very much so very much so but you know if you forget that if you forget those kinds of everyday reliance There's also a political reliance on Saudi Arabia wields enormous power within the United States you know the same is true of the United Arab Emirates and you know many other oil producing countries they have disproportionate wealth and they've become very skilled at spending it you know to get their own way is I mean in track today. And . Have a. Higher per capita carbon footprint then the US or Australia you know so you know. The oil economy is so powerful and so all police is that it has us in this kind of group and how do we best out of it well I think. You know these young activists. Give us cause for some kind of optimism and we have to have easily you know there is that idea if we just all stop driving our cars but of course we're not. Almost as though it has a mind of its own that we're just a part of. Well you have to really you have to acknowledge that in fact. That happens because of decisions taken you know 7080 years ago decisions in reach corporations played a large part so instead of creating an infrastructure of public transport you create these giant highways which are always full anyway no matter how many of them you create. You know in Brooklyn. I don't have a car. You know I go everywhere on my bicycle or on you know public transport but actually you know what is really what is really kind of extraordinary is to realize that New York is perhaps the only city in America where that's possible maybe Portland. I don't have a car you do here in the Bay Oh not as easy. As many York believe me go to gripes about our own public transportation system but nonetheless you I there some of us here don't remember yeah you got money. You can manage your disappoint you can go yeah I'm a tough go shop enjoy the conversation very much thank you thank you much to thank you very much for having me on a tough go she has been our guest Ward winning author his latest book is called Gun island for listeners in the San Francisco Bay area on the top gauche will be speaking at the 1st Congregational Church and Berkeley on Tuesday night as 2345 Channing way Tuesday night starting at 7 30 pm. And it does appear letters and politics the show is produced by Deanna Martina's Kristen Thomas is our engineer you can find archives of our previous shows on line at 8 pm at a. Time it shows rich and I thank you for. The 21000. Members have until October 15th to cast their vote elections. For candidates written statements video. 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Happy Monday everybody and welcome to global village and your new Monday host and I'll be with you until 1 pm. How we're going to have some fun together as we explore Africa Cuban and Latin rhythms from around the world and down the block with lots of other interesting musical stops along the way we got things kicked off with a neat though from his classic recording why he'd go with the tune situation and F. Minor. So let's keep going let's see. What this Monday morning will be like with some happy music for you today global village right here in Los Angeles. Read it here they. Did not and they were only one but they were OK I thought I had a little. Guy here will get all grammar. For. Me. Like you're going to. I. Told him one time. Not to make your name will be on. Your. Part. By. A couple of pages. Of a lot of. What . I want to get a bit of.