Doing our interview for the magazine and it's actually during the January eclipse. So here we are in a July eclipse is talking about then and I think we actually conducted our interview right around April Fool's Day. Right yes and again being a Libran dilly dallying person you were wonderfully persistent right and so you got in touch with me in January like whoa Ok because we've all had our Plutonian underworld adventures and it was at that time also that you told me that was going in for his surgery and that it wasn't as. Desirable an outcome as everyone had wished so the so it's been a long and short you know connective dynamic and then. Well I love everybody everybody's tried but but to honor Mercury because for all of us now in this collective field stationing retrograde it does seem I ve gotten so many quirky messages and doors opening and closing and hearing about other people who have died and other people it just I mean so that's why it seemed great that some trickster some mercury is scheduled ing all of us and and are. Today because it's like that's really great it's kind of like where's the field opening and you know again it is so fluid I when I say it's a fluctuating field and may all beings feel relaxed and Jonty and we can have a great ally David Grimes reminds us that in the most turbulent of rapids there's always a silver tongue of. And want to feel our way to that. But you pointed out let me let me let me toss it to you that now Mercury stationing Retrograde is right on time talked or is your nose where your nose was when he was born rising and anyway you want to tease us into this and then I want to bring in your innocent or some Democrat again a Muslim but you pointed that out to me. And. It's really interesting one of my teachers is Maurice Fernandez and he kind of talks about the 12th house as more of a career house necessarily than the 10th or the 6th and so I find as a needle placement for time having that you're honest in the 12th house and how much he has been such a huge influence in our community and particularly about allowing a publication to honor all the vote different voices and the different ways that astrology can be spoken and practiced and sorry feel like he's just been such a beautiful tribute to that and so for us to be talking with you know Mercury Retrograde stationing on his ear honest it's even more of that opportunity for us to be able to communicate his life's work and celebrate all of us that practice this language and share this language. Beautiful great and I love I love the Sabian symbols again where we're in a metaphoric realm of storytelling you know and see if it resonates in all of us but we're more curious now where are you and this was when Ted was born rising in the east its image as a deer with folded horns and a and formally dressed man it's an animistic totem it relates to the part of all of us that is sort of disco ised as human in some form and and then I'll say this because it's cool for the astrologers but then will dance with it so Mercury's on is your Innes and your Innes 1st time in 84 years is stationing at 6 degrees Taurus which is Thames Midheaven the point pretty much overhead when he was born that astrologers call work right many many complex parts of the language and it is work but it but I think it's really even bigger it's our intent into the collective you know what we're calibrated to send and receive and I'm. Wild About as in country as the previous show we like many voices many voices but about your newest natures evolutionary genius trickster liberating all liberating arts and all I think of the 12 houses everything that has been dissed exiled forgotten but is said to be where our cultures soul is right so it's work in that sense and so you have time and it resonate within all of us you know you're honest astrology as Rick Tarnas says it's become the gold standard of contempt for people who aspire to be intellectuals. But who don't know anything about it because it's in fact this exquisite language of our interior psyche and its connection to the whole larger thing but but I love and to honor you know the dedication of town and on way out but going in oh he and I want you to bring up the nature camps and all and how we and how we want to evolve how we gather and then to say this beautiful thing and the power of gathering and the image for his son in Leo It's Mardi Gras and you know honest the animism that has been exiled just but which we need most now and then you're in this on his mid haven't sensual participatory animism wheel and deal next 7 years you know as the only. Way to go really so. Yes And and I forgot where I was going to hand that to you but but feel free to converse or to invoke I was I was reading the interview you did with me bless your wonderful kind incredibly indefatigable and persistent heart and I realize I did go ahead and then you asked a succinct question and I was like What about it so however however you want to you know jump in but but. You know it and then we can bring your charge into play too because it's all it's all prudent There we go. Again you're going to talk about your own son Neptune and Neptune in quality of you know I had to be persistent to make sure that this energy you happened with you and I and honestly my main motivator was Tim and I was like Ok I can't let him down I've got to make sure I don't interview halfpence So again I find it very secretive state I feel his push right now for us to be doing this interview and I love that you talked about the baby and symbol for his Iran as you said it was a. It's about your withholding horns in a formally dressed man it's the world of humans part of. And again one of the things I had noticed when I looked at his chart when I 1st came onboard to t.m.a. Was that he and I as Mars are conjunct his is 23 degrees Pisces and minus 25. And in my studies you know Mars in Pisces is very affiliated with animals they tend to feel more at home in nature and more connected to animals sometimes than they do humans so I feel like that symbol is so perfect for him and you were talking about the nature cam still so what he did was he planned to plan it camps and part of that was he didn't like necessarily the stuff the aspect of the way a lot of astrological conferences are you know we go to like a Doubletree Hotel and we certainly have air conditioning buildings and he wanted a place where we could all gather in nature I say we I wasn't there I was a child. Where astrologers could gather in nature and also you know kind of do the impromptu like what do you want to talk about get on stage and you don't have to be a big name or. Somebody special it's let's all get together and talk about this language and celebrate our love of the planets and so again this kind of bringing in both of those aspects of this human element and the being in nature and being connected to animals and talking to everything and for me I think one of the ways astrology is so beautiful is it does give us more words more language to understand ourselves and how to talk to everything you know talk to the plants talk to the animals build books talk to you. That's beautiful know that's great that's really great. And. What it also is how shall we gather and I. I didn't go to those planet camps it sounds just exactly what I would wanted some way maybe I did back in prehistory But yeah the stuffy aspects of the conferences you know we want to honor. Discrepancy as an incentive to experiment because it is it is trippy being in corporate hotel talking about liberating ideas the corporate hotels are designed so that liberating ideas can barely escape. Right and it's a question for all of us how shall we gather and you know I've been you know and see it and participated in many music festivals all of which are great gatherings great gatherings you know but it is you know how can we gather in the way that you suggest and many I have a have a category now of prison masquerading as freedom and it's nuance but a lot of the festivals are like. At 5 a and I go one of the birds think about that. So manners manners you know and I think you're innocent Tauruses me our species have collaborative manners again and we know that in the nature you know even predator prey has manners right that it is it is this this dance there's much to say about that but but yeah so the gathering is is is wonderful and. Addressing the contrast and then let's bring up the power of symbolism you know that is so strong in for everybody right for everybody and so when Tam was born he has. You know he's a fire water guy you know steam you know with little earth only one air but the air is Neptune that's a good one and the image for his Neptune is a person in deep gone unnoticed a glowing circle of angels arounds them well. And he's had a sun quintile Neptune so if you're only going to have one heir which means you're really working hard to put that magazine out it's not flibbertigibbet. But you have irresistible eloquence to be an agent for the power of metaphor and the liberating imagination in the world we go off that. And so so are all or all kind of Neptune in here because this beautiful language really does want to guide us back into thinking feeling symbolically that the world is speaking to us all the time. In symbolic form we start with astrological chart is stylized actual factual map and we go real maps symbolic map. So just one last thing before I toss it back to you 2 which I think is so important what you what you just said which is. Leo Leo Leo Leo Leo part of a celebratory. Thames chart Mardi Gras sun rising. Volunteer church choir Leo ascendant Pluto moon. In Leo with a 100 part of the Yoda at 150 degree angle to Mars in Pisces Mars in Pisces back to Neptune up in Sept I would like meaning I think it's so important for all of us that our creativity and that performance thing be all was in service to Mars in Pisces. The dedicated magic collective well being right. And and that's. But well does that resonate with you part of what what Tim was caring for us all yes absolutely and again you know you're talking about his son and it was Leo still any you know triple Leo Sun Moon ascendant Plus you're honest and Pluto. And there's this element you know when you have sun and Leo in the 12th house that you know fame can kind of naturally find you and what I really loved about his spirit was while he was able to really grace this t.m.a. Stage and create you know beautiful work through these magazines he was also so humble and you know wasn't somebody who was hungry for the stage and he really wanted to share it. And I think that that was you know and integrity part of who he was. Yeah and we might say you know with the Politico the mysteries of. Life you know that we can't live through the dead but we can invite what we admire in the dead to live through us and that's why I think we've sort of been convened and convening with you know with yourself and a digital when I was like oh well but this one by original guest on Wolves will be future in the hubbub about doing radio now Ray and you're like oh great it's like I think you've combing through the good we want that to be true and it does those fuel like it you know and. You know Fareed and I especially love that within our interview we actually kind of talked about the wolf model of leadership so for you to say that your guest today was going to be speaking on wolves and couldn't come. And again you know to kind of bring in an element of the transits went past him and he was having a venous return of the innocent cancer in the 11th house and one of the ways I see that is you know he was very much a goddess worship her and in the leavened house it being Astra which is I think he had a particular affiliation and affection for. And so right now kind of in the wake of him leaving is there is there's actually 7 women here who are carrying the team carrying the magazine one of those being his wife and I feel like he would have wanted that just empower us and the fact that he has the last magazine being the August September issue which is his birth month and it being a celebration of women you know women of consequence in the interview with you it just felt very. Symbolic very in tune. Yeah and again it is we're all we're all we're all in this dance together you know everybody's got a you know a Saturn Pluto a culture of death rebirth into which you know throwing and collectively the micro macro again which is such a crucial part of this language that Thames really honored with the authors that he had you know contribute to the mountain astrologer for years really smart interesting collective teasing of strategy and pattern tracking and just just what it should be again mountain astrologer dot com team. You know it's a it's a very smart guy and maybe even more. Now when we receive Gratefully the baton and I love that your honest which has always been a struggle with astrology that which has been dissed but which is in fact liberating in that we need more than ever before it's right on is Mitt haven't you and I love you no esoteric writer Dion Fortune saying the purpose of ritual magic is to spiral into group mind expanded wisdom and tolerance we go that's great and. And then. Toss to the Jupiter transits I find it so heartening Jupiter the intelligence of curiosity blessing and journeys often long journeys is is very often the signature of departure of death but as great astrologer Evangeline Adams said in the 40s she goes we all come under death aspect 2 or 3 times a year it's a question of when we go it's a wrap or go to Jupiter was exactly trying times rising sign when he died and we I mean I don't presume to know at all about these mysteries of death and what it really isn't everything but according to his language we go we would wish that from the challenging ordeal of illness that's so hard to friends you know who died that way and then may it be the relief. And and then you yourself you know are having a Jupiter transit right this 2nd Right right the 2nd which I excuse me while I reach for a book briefly. Because I just wanted to read the same b.s. Because they are it's uplifting So when temp dies Jupiter in the sky is retrograde in Word the outward journey is inward and deep at 16 degrees subject areas his right. Since I'm 16 Leo and we do find solace in meaningful patterns going it's not a random thing it's a living breathing thing and we are pattern tracking beings and we're all in the stream together so the image. You know as you put or danced with him in May May be so May His Spirit be bright and liberated the images a gloriously changing ring of golden light circles the horizon drawing people from their houses in reverent admiration the unfolding glory of the cosmos devotional worship of the divine blossoming of cosmic consciousness the kinship of the spiritual He dedicated dedicated to promoting a new age you know and as he time could say that without it being choosy desire for group experience of a spiritual nature of just what you were saying go well done lad. And then way back it's very beautiful it's the Steve version of the Sabian symbols but he's a scholar he's allowed to mess around with them and I like that one and then for yourself just for the fun of it as you kindly sent me your choice because we're all in this dance together and we're all parts of each other and there we go but I thought look at you and and and the fact that you are a 2nd generation astrologer which is great and your Saturn is 15 such a terrace rising in the east keeper of a teaching tradition that has been dissed but once to come alive. And as Jupiter has changed degrees and is right on that right now expanding what you've been dedicated to it's images equitorial explored drift down a jungle stream in a sailboat life is a grand adventure determination to see through one's life ideals come hell or high water you know we go is that. Does that resonate with yourself as a you know it's your Saturn but it's like it's coming alive yes absolutely and again Michael and let me and pushed. Today I hear you go right take the stage with Caroline honor me honor the magazine carry the torch of the magazine return one of the things he placed in my hands bravely and. Talking about the Jupiter Trying to his ascendant and his son as he passed chairs definitely a release and I was talking to Kate his wife just before this and you know one of the things that needs to be said was just how bravely he faced all of this Lake Hughes just I mean honestly want to be kind of men but just you know not hardly a peep of you know complaining you know he just took it all in stride and really kind of trusted this path trusted what was the following him and it was. An inspiration and a lot of ways to all of us of how to honorably and with dignity face our. Disappearing our going to the other side of the veil. Yes And I remember you an analyst saying some years ago going you know it's even tougher for modern wizards I don't. And I was thinking of all the wizard the men that I know right and many are hanging in there and we wish along with. But you know himself noticed all the young lived a very long time but he said that many of his magical equal men friends all died young the last you know and so it is it is it is it is challenging to be a wizard and then maybe are I like thinking really of all men underneath everything as wizards and maybe we speak about the initiation of the gentle man and because we might say the world is being run by a uninitiated Mars sociopathic 14 year old with no Venus in every round of toxicity and minor annoyance you know the full spectrum of like an annoying kid you know. And or that's a dangerous toxic kid right and so that idea of you know wizardry initiation and men coming into gentleness. Mars and Pisces Thames Mars and Pisces which is you know strong enough to be gentle It's what I tell my giant muscular dog Captain moon strong enough to be gentle and he's like Oh Ok And there was a there was a kind of biker guy in and he's like oh I'm looking for another tattoo What should I have and I go how about strong enough to be gentle he's like That's cool and I have. 0 but but I mean just that also is that a quality of times medicine strong enough to be gentle Yeah. That's the it's the best you know and what you say about you know facing an arduous Nyssa mean we all you know often given a couple of bitter wine or or the little transits which is always something we drag or not you know and it's. You know and then again we let's go back to Neptune for all of us right how shall we metaphorically cooperate with our customized circumstance personal and collective. And I love my longtime astrological buddy Sylvia Handley it was Sylvia. That I've known for 40 or more years. But she said quintiles they are irresistible eloquence and as we've kind of come to understand they're really democratic and just to speak of something is to make it available to everyone listening. Is the capacity to hold a true perception and be like a tuning fork meaning we don't have to convince or believe you are could call anybody they go oh tell him so and so I read that article or since you guided my gaze that way Orson I see that now right so it's guiding everyone to their own autonomy which is a long lasting influence and what Sylvia said yes it is all those things but it's also the capacity to open doors to open portals you know and to open portals and let the imaginative pour in you know and and the rich history of astrology it's like Arnold said to be cultured is to be acquainted with the highest possibilities of the human spirit timing with Oh it's a good start. But I think also the astrological you know all the Ask a lot you know and how and what do we want to visualize even if it's if we if we just wanted to be true that the e