Brings his story to life. I'm New York City attorney and author Michael Steven Smith and New York City Attorney and activist. In 2012 the Ecuadorian Supreme Court ordered the oil giant Chevron to pay $9500000000.00 in damages to 5 indigenous tribes of the Amazon rain forest it was one of the largest judgments in history the court ruled that Chevron systematically contaminated a patch of the Amazon forest the size of Rhode Island the people there are suffering from cancer and other diseases and forced to drink toxic water and grow crops on poisons land Chevron retaliated they sued in federal court in the southern district of New York they got Judge Lewis Kaplan and extremely pro corporate judge to side with them and to side with the 2nd largest oil company in the world the judge blocked the judgment from being enforced and instead had the people's attorney Steve Dons are charged with racketeering he was arrested confined to his home forced to wear an ankle bracelet and suspended from the practice of law and March 4th of this year the judge declared the judgment null and void he said it was the fruit of an illegal shakedown the result of a quote 5 year effort to extort and defraud Chevron. The odds are responded saying that the judge was an accomplice in quote the biggest corporate retaliation campaign in history he told Rolling Stone magazine that quote Chevron has spent over $2000000000.00 trying to wear us out and shut us down the old company's sole witness to its central charge of bribery was a corrupt Ecuadorian ex judged named Alberto Glendora Chevron gave him $2000000.00 They got him American citizenship they relocated him to America and installed him in his family in a home in the United States. To talk more about this case we're joined by returning guest attorney Martin Garbus Garbus is one of 3 pro bono lawyers representing Don's Iker and attempt to get his law license restored We're also joined by Paul Pozzi Mino associate director at Amazon Watch since 2007 and a professional human rights corporate accountability and environmental justice advocate attorney Martin Garbus and Paul positive you know welcome to law and disorder in your case Marty Welcome back to londis are thank you very much Marty never before have indigenous groups in the Amazon obtained a large environmental judgment in their own courts against a u.s. Oil giant Tell us about the case in a nutshell what is an extraordinary event and it has a great deal to teach us all that how you handle this kind of litigation if you look at what happened here you can see what was done these he means in the problems that you face if you try and litigate the cooperation with the assets of something like Chevron a judgment was obtained in Ecuador for close to $20000000000.00 because a Texaco and Chevron's ruination if you will of the environment and the destruction of much of the country's water ways and mountains that judgment was reduced by the Ecuadorian court to roughly 10000000000 in a New York court Judge Lewis Kaplan said a site that judgment and also started a set of proceedings against one of the lawyers who had been involved in the case some call Steven Danziger that's your client that's Mike Royko and I presume he representing him along with Rick Friedman. And Aaron Paige in a disciplinary proceeding which is going on as we speak. The case teaches us how you have to deal with the industry that is so involved with respect to climate change if he chooses how you deal and we'll get into that with the fuel fossil industry and Paul was a witness in the case that we just try we're trying right now before a referee who are a man concerning Steve's ability to practice law in New York which is really the end result of the case and the discussion about Steve should not obscure the extraordinary achievement in getting this result and the difficulties in forcing such a result Michael you in are you have litigated frequently against the government you and I both know what happens when you have the power in the resources of the government against an individual here which you have is the power and resources of company like x. Like Chevron against indigenous peoples in Ecuador and it's a lesson in for the future and had a litigator these things Paul talk if you will about Chevron's retaliation campaign against their main adversary the indigenous people so attorney Steve Dines or. Sure Chevron from the outset had known that they couldn't win this case based on the merits that's been incredibly obvious to anybody looking at the case because the evidence is still sitting in Ecuador and they actually admitted to the deliberate dumping 1st so their strategy has always been to delay and try to derail the king and the prince or way of doing that has been go after the even done thing and they actually internal emails from Chevron showed their strategy back in 2009 was to quote demonize done and so after delaying the case in the 1st case brought against Texaco and having it moved to Ecuador which took almost a decade they began to try to drop as much dirt as they could and tarnish the reputation and to prevent them from being able to enforce the verdict because of course Chevron pulled that out of Ecuador before they lost the case there and so in order that actually make them pay up they had to be changed in the the to other then use and what so diabolical about their strategy of going after Don King and fabricating the lies about the case in Ecuador was that they preemptively brought that case in the United States before the Ecuadorian the done thing I had an opportunity to speak to enforce that rhetoric here and that what they wanted was to prevent any us judge from ever actually looking at the evidence of what happened then that quick or and so by making the case about done which is what they've done they've taken the spotlight off the heinous crime they were responsible for in that regard and then that you know it's people who are still suffering from the contamination there it's a terrifying strategy actually because when you've got a crime that so overwhelmingly obvious and criminal who has the ability to actually pay for reparations and make a difference. They're able to subvert the truth of what's happened in the case and turn the focus on something else and so in order to do that they fabricated lies about ghostwriting and bribery and Ecuador ironically are things that Chevron was responsible for doing they actually accused Steven da and some of the other Ecuadorian lawyers doing in that order. When in reality it was Chevron that was trying to derail the case and did so for close to a decade why do you think that Chevron is afraid well this was. The most important environmental or oil related case in history there's no question that Indigenous communities and other farmer communities successfully sued and won against a large u.s. Oil company that's a precedent that they could not allow to be set at rest of the industry has been looking at this case as well because the indication could be devastating for the press and it could be devastating for them and other countries where Chevron operates with many many places where Chevron has highlighted environmental regulations violated human rights and in fact there's an annual anti Chevron protest in over 20 countries based on that what happened in this case and what they're doing in other places so Chevron is terrified that they actually would be forced to pay and not only pay out the pay to individuals they hire which is different even than what you saw in the b.p. Case where they've set money aside was written which has been arranged with the government this is what the government backward or this is actually having to pay the people that they harmed who would be related to the destruction it cool want it paid to Chevron's respect to the same issue doesn't pay at the end of the day is horse until whether or not Chevron will have paid more for its lawyers then b.p. Paid in the settlement of the case let me also go further than the polls saying the key here is the fear the fossil fuel industry this case holds them accountable for pollution particularly in the developing world regulations the lax it says Paul said it's a bellwether for the 1st time indigenous groups and rain forest communities have actually gone to court to hold someone and then to the share of run accountable at a liberal commensurate with the problem. The company is reacting not only to the tremendous risk it faces in this one lawsuit because as I said this lawsuit is a paradigm it shows you how to do it also the case relates to the question of climate change and so many of the companies that could be sued or the people who or negatively affecting the climate it relies incentive such that a bigger well company will be less likely to drill in sensitive eco systems like the Amazon which are critical to the preservation of the planet if Chevron has to pay the real cost of the harm it causes. And other companies do the same thing it will cut down on drilling it will cut down on all the activities that lead to the destruction of the world through climate change. Turning Martin Garbus Pol Pot as the Meo associate director of Amazon Watch how does this case affect climate change well Severn is actually. A company of the bone or a company or hold that the stink of having created the most warming gases of any private company in the history of the world so more than Exxon more than shell b.p. Etc They play an enormous role when it comes to that can the climate change movements pressured to roll back the fossil fuel industries attempt to that as they raise the temperature and profit off of the destruction of the planet so the climate change movement is looking at this case and Chevron specifically as one of the work if not the worst actor and that billet the for the movement to come together pressure them to not only make reparations for past tyrants but cut back their activity and to this day they're still refining oil that's coming out of the Amazon which we can't as the world can't afford to even burn let alone drill and refine So the implications for Chevron if they're held to account are pretty powerful movement but indicate not only that Chevron is is back on its heels but that the rest of the industry will have to suffer some of the same kind of pressure and that actually gives a great hope to Martin Garbus you alleged that the main witness against Steve Dobbs figure was paid $2000000.00 by Chevron and was resettled from Ecuador to the United States given citizenship a new home sustaining income you say he framed dies or how so. Well he testified falsely before Judge Kaplan that Danziger had committed a number of improprieties Now the significant thing is that it's Kaplan's decision that basically sets aside the judgment he's a lower court federal Judge Lewis Kaplan he sets aside the Rico judgment and he comes then with this list of grievances that with respect to Steve Danziger Steve dancer who is just one of many lawyers and there were at the Dorian lawyers who were involved in the case there were very reputable law firms Steve was the thrid throughout the case subsequently as I said the judge a lawyer and where is testimony to can then Steve subsequently it turned out that all the information that you list namely payments to him by Chevron taking care of him through and his family a long time preparing him enormously days after days after days that he was 53 solid days I don't have the number in front of me with respect to whatever testimony he was going to give then when Judge Kaplan can see it's there where I was lying may have been lying he still does not change his underlying opinion from having rely primarily on where were in the in the original decision even after where shown to have been lying it needs to have been lying the judge does not change his decision what also happens and we'll get into that is the judge then recommends that a criminal prosecution be brought against Danziger and he goes to the u.s. Attorney and the u.s. Attorney refused to do it and apparently he goes a number of times in the used turn he says I'm not going to prosecute because says the u.s. Attorney I don't have the resources that's a polite way of saying I'm not going to prosecute. With the judge then does is under particular statute very rarely used he appoints private lawyers to be the prosecutors So Steve is now facing a criminal prosecution as well as contempts as well as disciplinary proceedings before the Board Association again I wonder in a way take the case away from Steve all the years more or less beside a very tortured human being now by the Kaplan proceedings for which he's fighting enormously. He's just a model of what can happen to a lawyer who goes into a case like this acts properly when and then Chevron has the power the money the ability to affect court decisions. Then the and they're successful attempts in this case to undercut the Ecuadorian courts so I want to ask both of you gentlemen why did Judge Kaplan call Steve an immediate threat to the public interest Marty well. The. Language that he used was the Bar Association when it decides whether or not you can discipline another lawyer looks to see whether or not that lawyer is a threat to the public interest. So that's the defense Steve has to allege in his defense and Paul is one of the people who testified on his behalf they didn't read he's not a threat to the public interest and we had witnesses who came in from the leading organizations in the world and this Greenpeace others all came in testified as to their relationship and there was one witness called a professor at John Jay who had known Steve long before he got involved in Ecuador and she testified at great length to what he had done in the years of criminal justice working pro bono long long before he got into this case and the extraordinary reputation he had in the civil rights civil liberties world long long before this case Marty just Incidentally have you been threatened by Judge Kaplan I'll take the 5th Amendment. What Steve status now Steve status now is he's under house arrest he has a bracelet he can't leave his apartment unless he gets the permission of a representative of the court he has had to post a bond of $800000.00 with somebody is done on his behalf otherwise he has he would be in jail now there are people walking around him charged with very serious crimes who are out on bail the idea that a lawyer is stuck in his house with an ankle bracelet and can't leave the house after having posted an 800000 dollar bond seems to me totally unprecedented I've never seen anything like it now I don't know every case in the southern district and there's certainly a lot I don't know in court throughout the United States but this seems to me a remarkable punishment. There's a Canadian case going on which Steve is essential to with trying to enforce a judgment that Kaplan set aside his passport has been lifted he can't go to Canada on behalf of his clients and represents in the air so confiding him to the house not only punishes him here but it deprives his clients of a lawyer who has been the linchpin in the case for say for more than a decade and that's something that's really important to think about too because Judge Kaplan. This if a clue wrote in his decision that it didn't preclude the Ecuadorians from the camp to try and force their judgment out by the United States and the reason you put that in there is because before he even heard the Rico trial in 2010 I believe Judge Kaplan filed a global injunction. Saying at that time that no country in the world couldn't force the Ecuadorian judgment imagine the overreach that was immediately thrown thrown out by the 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals but it demonstrates Kaplan's implicit bias from the outset right he wanted to tell the world it couldn't enforce its judgment anywhere and then when can Don singer and others continue to try to enforce that judgment in Canada and they were making progress there that's when they suppressed his ability to to practice law by going after his license that's when they took away it asked for it now it's gone out because even though there's a there's a Rico verdict in the United States against dancing are saying that you can't benefit from the judgment United States he continues to work for justice in that quarter he continues to try to hold Chevron to account and Chevron does not want that to happen they thought this was going to go away what happens order and it hasn't and so the additional pressure not only on Steven but the other people who he's worked with and this is at the crux of the issue because they've subpoenaed other people who have continued to help Steven and others enforce the verdict outside the United States and that's why they want to see his computer and his phone and get an email password so they can continue to target the people that have been helping keep this going and stop them from working the whole chapter on to account wherever they are not just in the United States to the users remailing phone they got some stuff early on this list so he has not yet given. What are the next steps I ask both of you to try to collect the judgment for the injured people well presently I'm involved with a Canadian lawyer John Phillips and they're going to try and enforce the judgment in Canada now they're going to try and do then as soon as possible Chevron is all ready heavily involved in trying to defeat that attempt so we'll see how the Canadian courts will treat this hopefully differently than the American courts Paul what groups are back in the indigenous people and Steve and Steve's Steve's clients. Well in in many ways throughout the course not only in this case going back to the 1993 when it was 1st filed there have been many human rights in Iran and organizations supporting it Amazon Watch has been campaigning since 2000 we've worked with Rain Forest Action Network tachometer lions at points and understand Greenpeace the largest most influential environmental and human rights organizations at one point another have weighed in on calling out Chevron attempts to suppress free speech to suppress corporate accountability actions to prevent people from working on behalf of the Ecuadorian So you're seeing more and more groups rallied behind glass because this case is considered not only by environmental the rights community as such a pivotal important case but on the other side groups that are trying to stop corporate account of it or the efforts like the Americans for tort reform for example see chevrons retaliatory actions as a playbook court a playbook for stopping corporate gadflies and this this is going to be a continued point for many of the organizations because if other companies are able to launch these pressure Rico attacks and sensually ads laps to prevent people from organizing organizations from organizing campaigns and bringing legal action it takes away a huge tool that we have to hold corporations to account so you're going to see more and more organizations like Amnesty like Global which of course Greenpeace coming to the defense of Stephen and to the Ecuadorian to try to hold Chevron to account whether it be in Canada or fighting the attempts to restrict freedom in the United States one of the things that's going to happen in Canada is I will be cooled down and then when Mr Phillips is witness to testify as to the nature of Judge Camping's decision and. The thick to which this is pressure being bored to upset this judgement and stop the judgment from being forced namely to testify before the Canadian court as to what legal activities Chevron has done and will do in this in future cases so how can people follow this case and how can they support it it's very difficult to follow it's difficult to follow in point because for