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With the reclamation change in Western civilization Dr Steven Nichols joins us today right here on the Christian religion radio program where the mission is to sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians and to share the good news that all people can be reconciled to God through faith in Jesus Christ I'm David Wheaton the host of the program and our Web site is the Christian worldview dot org You know it's been said that the Protestant Reformation not only altered the course of the Christian church but also the entirety of Western civilization including our American way of life today so how did an era that started 500 years ago and 1517 and lasted into the mid 16 hundreds have that much impact what were the conditions and the years and centuries prior that led to the Reformation in what made the leaders of the Reformation so bold in why are they ideas and doctrines they espoused so important for us in 21st century America. Dr Steven Nichols is our guest this weekend on a question or of you he will answer these questions then several more Dr Nicholls is the president of reformation Bible College the chief academic officer for Ligonier ministries and the author of several books including The Reformation how a monk and a mallet changed the world Steve it's great to have you on the program for the 1st time and I often ask 1st time gas just tell us about your background how you became a follower of Christ and what you do now I'd be glad to take you for having me on the show my dad was a pastor so I grew up in the church and I remember every Sunday morning every Sunday night every Wednesday I was in church and it was a Bible preaching gospel believing church and I was just surrounded by the Gospel as it were from birth up and I was very grateful for that and very grateful for parents who love the Lord and saw to it that I was surrounded by these good things and so I remember very distinctly when I was just a young kid of recognizing that as one of my heroes has come to say. Jesus died that's history Jesus died for me that's doctrine and remembering that very distinctly just coming to grips with my self as a sinner and my separation from the holy God and my need for Christ and what he did for me and putting my face in Christ and coming to accept him as my Lord and Savior and. Very grateful for that that that was early on part of my life I want to address Mr Sumner in Philadelphia and just love the academic world I had some experience teaching undergrads and was was able to. To. Have a job I sure did my doctoral work at a college up in Pennsylvania called Lancaster Bible College and my wife and I recently spent 17 years there and was teaching their church history theology and then a few years got to know the folks down here in Ligonier and made some friendships with them and Dr scroll who founded live near ministries back in 2011 founded a Bible College and as I thought about some of my experience of those they looked at me just toughest might be a good fit to them so and 2014 we moved from Lancaster down to Orlando and able to serve as president here at reformation Bible college the college that r.c. Founded and also to serve the Ligonier ministries Ok let's get into our topic today which is how the Reformation changed not only the church a Western Civilization you know I think a lot of Christians. Understand Christian history up until the end of the 1st century and then all of a sudden from that time all the way up to let's say the Reformation started in $157.00 team there sort of this black hole nothing happened yeah tell us an overview of what took place in Christianity from the 2nd century to the start of the Reformation I know that's a question you could go on for an hour or so but just trying to give us an overview of what was taking place during that time period I think it's 2 key time periods you have the end of the 1st century when we're finished with the New Testament and we're moving from that era of Apostles into the church and the closing of the New Testament canon and the end of that so we so we ended with the 1st century and really on into the middle of the $400.00 so into the fist century and the collapse of Rome that's sort of the 1st phase of the church from. 10450 s and then there we see you know it starts off as a time of persecution we see this in the pages of The New Testament this is a time of martyrdom this is a time of the church being marginalized in Roman culture and where we we have these great stories of martyrs who come to us one of my favorites Polycarp and we even see martyrdoms of of women in the church the martyrdom of Perpetual is as a a story that was handed down to us through the ages so it's a time of martyrdom it's also a time this $150.00 of solidifying key doctrines and and really the attack comes with the doctrine of Christ we see this in the pages of The New Testament 1st John is talking about those false teachers who will deny that Jesus is come in the flesh and so it's do we should be surprised that in those early centuries the church is wrestling with this question of who is Christ and so we have a great I seem counsel in the Nicene Creed we have accosted only in council on the 407 the definition of couse And on that Jesus is truly God truly man and those 2 natures are can joined in one person is very crucial to get Christ right you know because that's the center of the gospel so those are some of the things in the early church then you go from the 4 fifties up to the 1500 and we call this the Middle Ages we called it the Dark Ages and the big key here is Christendom and this is the growth of the Roman Catholic Church I'm a Protestant so I do not believe that the Roman Catholic Church can trace its pope's back to Peter I think the papacy really originates in the $506.00 hundreds and it becomes a dominant factor in church history and the shadow of the Roman Catholic Church then of course is the Catholic Church dominates this time period now there are certainly bright spots there are people like Tom Thomas Aquinas there's. And sound we get closer to the Reformation there strong Wycliffe That was John Haas prog So you know we have these really. Folks who are clear standing for the Gospel and and pointing people to the truth is a vital but it is also a time of spiritual darkness and a time of corruption and so so we look at the Middle Ages we have to see to this these bright spots but we also have to see where the wheels are falling off the wagon here and the institutional church Dr Stephen Nichols with us today on the Christian real view of the president of reformation Bible College and also the chief academic officer for Ligonier ministries He's also been a professor of historical theology and written many books we'll get to some of those today so during this time of the Middle Ages are sometimes known as the Dark Ages were there other churches outside the Roman Catholic Church or were believers within the Roman Catholic Church someone like Mark Martin Luther who was a monk who came out a Roman Catholic Church where were the true remnant Salan believers during this time you know the really only is one church it is the Roman Catholic church so the options are Islam is on the rise after that of course and then you have to pay again religions so you know the Druids are the Celtic sort of pagan religions and you do have some syncretism with the pagan religions and Catholicism but the only church in town up until the Protestant Reformation is the Roman Catholic Church and what you find within it is the remnant and you know we see this even in the Old Testament you know we see examples of Alija you know I'm the only one and God has to show had no you're not the only one and so while it is a kind of spiritual darkness we have to wreck. Nice God has always preserved his church there's always been a remnant of a witness and as wrong in the Roman Catholic Church was in the Middle Ages and he ingredients were there for the Gospel to be proclaimed. And so while we have to see it for what it is we also have to recognize that it was that true church that it never it never took a hiatus and went into hibernation for a few centuries Dr Stephen Nichols with us today in the Christian world view you were part of a documentary that's coming out later this year in October of 2017 and along with there and Steve Lawson the preacher and President one passion ministries had this to say in that documentary of you comment he had no idea that he was striking the match that with a light at Western civilization he said that about Martin Luther that he was striking a match in 1517 when he posted his 95 theses to the church door in Wittenberg Germany What were the conditions going on in the early 15 hundreds if we've come up to this time now that made their reformation so easily to be lighted at that particular time for this to disk all across Europe and really even come over to the new world eventually Well 1st of all I think I think Dr Lawson exactly right I don't think Luther was fully aware very quickly he became aware of the consequences of his action but I don't think he was aware at the time of of where this was going to go you know I knew this example of a painting it's like a painting done in $1516.00 and it I mention this in that documentary that you're referring to and it was a painting called The Hey Wayne triptych so he waited in the hay wagon and the triptych is like a 3 panel painting and this was. Done in 1516 so this is the year before loser pose the 95 theses and if your listeners can just Google this painting and look it up and it's very revealing to me in this huge oversized a bale of hay on a blag it in the center of the painting and all around it right up against it you have sort of the keys you have to go hierarchy and they're sort of the fat cats so to speak. And then you have the masses of people who are sort of distance from the hay sort of kept at a distance and and they're sort of painted in dark hues and so you get the sense that they're sort of oppressed and kept kept the down. And on the top of the hay wagon on the hay bale is an angel and the angel is pointing up to Christ and at the top of the painting is Christ and nobody's looking up. And as I as I don't attempt painting I think this really depicts well. What's happening on the eve of the Reformation and you know we go down to Geneva Geneva's motto was post 10 of Ross looks after darkness light. Well that means they're starkness and there was a moral darkness there was a moral decadence in the culture that that was a symptom of what was ultimately a spiritual darkness and here's the church and the Hate to me is a metaphor so here's the church that has access to the hate and instead of hoarding it it should be you know giving it out freely to the masses and here's the church that really should be pointing to people to Christ because the ultimate solution to all of these issues and they're not doing it they're not even paying attention to him and so the church abdicated its role as the church that's where we find ourselves in 1516 and what Luther is doing in 1517 when he posts his 95 theses he's calling on his church to be the church he's calling on his church to get back to its task and its vocation of proclaiming the gospel and it has lost its way and we're going to see this flame now is going to burst forth into this new reformation if the churches uncle anything to do with him for they're going to communicate and condemn him as a heretic. Dr Stephen Nichols with us today in a Christian real view the president of reformation of Bible College and we're talking about how the Reformation not just the search of Western civilization much more to come across in real view coming up I'm David we. The Christian worldview fall conference is coming up soon on Friday evening September 15th and Saturday morning September 16th in the chapel at Grace Church in Eden Prairie Minnesota there are 2 compelling themes this year world events Islam and the clash of civilizations and the Reformation justification and the authority of scripture. Political analyst Soren current Pastor Troy and David we will be the speakers there will also be a live radio broadcast and special music Friday evening dessert Saturday morning breakfast and a preconference speaker reception are also available you are encouraged to come and bring others to registration is not required for the conference but doing so by Tuesday September 5th guarantees you a seat discounted hotel rates are available details and registration. World View dot org or call one triple 86462233. Mike Gendron former Roman Catholic and founder of proclaiming the gospel was recently on the program to discuss his d.v.d. Why are evangelicals reversing the Reformation Here's a clip where he details 7 differences between Catholics and evangelicals 1st and foremost we have a different authority we read and study a different Bible we worship and trust a different Jesus we believe a different gospel we have a different order of salvation a different view of justification we have a different path to eternity these are critical differences for a limited time we are offering the d.v.d. Which contains 2 messages for a donation of any amount normal retail is $15.00 not including shipping to order go to the Christian worldview dot org or call one triple 86462233 or write to box 401 Excelsior Minnesota 55331100 points of the word pair but it might pose a risk or chose comment out this Saturday August 12th I'm going to be in studio but I'm going to be talking about the upcoming taste of Douglas County it's coming up on Thursday August 16th this is the 15th year theists is one of the great food festivals of the front range information is that taste of Douglas County dot com If you say Well Mike we live in El Paso county we live in the Pike's Peak region why would we want to come up to Castro because you can enjoy such local favorites as Chicago pizza and taproom the airplane restaurant will be there Dave Weber from Colorado colonels gourmet popcorn put a bunch of restaurants all up and down the front range tickets Corney dollars at the door but only $10.00 in advance and you can pick them up at l n l why and barbecue $5050.00 barge Barnes and powers to make plans to join me make plans to attend you will have a ball at the 15th annual Taste of Douglas County coming up on Thursday August 17th for me might boil. In the restaurant shut. The record mation changed the church and Western civilization that is our topic today right here on the Christian real view radio program David week in the house Thanks for joining us we have one of the best guests on this topic today Dr Stephen Nicholls He's the president of reformation Bible College also the chief academic officer for Ligonier ministries and the author of many books also the host of a pod cast 5 minutes in church history and look that up if you want to hear of afterthought cast Let's get back to the interview with Dr Nichols in that documentary Barry Cooper who's an author and speaker talked about some of the things that happened as a result of Luther posting these 95 theses and he played the audio of that lets you comment. This was the man back going to use to recapture the gospel. Game restored the Word of God the Bible to the center of Christian life and worship in reestablish the importance of family the value of music the dignity of human labor but most significantly of all every call that the truth about a person's justification and they always have gone comes by grace a line or face a life. From the Luther documentary guess coming out later this year talk about Steve some of the important points of those 95 theses because Luther doctrinally I don't think you'd say he got everything right but there are many things that he was getting right right there from the start the Reformation. Yeah right and you know we need to really look at like 17 truth that's 221 foundational moment in his life and. See that hope. Take so if we go to the 95 theses he's knocking on the door but he's not entirely there at that moment but there's some crucial points he's saying one point in the theses he says that the church is true treasure is the gospel of Jesus Christ this of course is a direct attack on the indulgence of the system where you could literally here's the problem it's been the perennial problem we have only God and we are a sinful person people and there is a separation between a sinful people and a holy God And so one of the things the church was saying by this indulgence literally put money in the Kafir we will hinge you a piece of paper and that indulgence now wipes out your sins and you are no longer separated from the holy God. That troubled Luther he knew that based on God's righteousness and God's holiness you can buy your way of the heaven so he's he says in there the church is true treasure is the gospel of Jesus Christ and at the end of the 95 theses he says something very interesting he quotes from Isaiah the prophet and he says away with the false prophets who say peace peace and there is no peace so it's what the indulgence hawkers were doing by this indulgence you'll have peace and no you won't is what we are saying instead he says we instead we say cross cross and there is no cross so when leaders trying to say in that any developed of us more fully in the next couple of years it is we look to the cross and there we recognize that there is no cross for us because Christ did what we could not do and bearing the penalty of scent and so when we say that's how they should is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone we are saying cross the cross and there is no cross. For us to bear because Christ bore it for us so that gospel and enter of what Luther was doing but Ellsbury point out Rachael we don't like spokes on a wheel now you know we're going to talk about reforming the church service with the trial of the preaching we're going to talk about when you look at this which why John how it's one of the reasons why John Haas was martyred in 1415 because he promoted congregational thinking. And so something can be reformed the family. Especially because priests are non I want to see a priest more spiritual. Luther come along and. Elevate the family the dignity of work through Luther's rediscovery of the doctrine of vocation I mean really from an entrepreneur gospel just springs for all of these glory to mention. Both doctrine but also of life yeah and he had discovered all these through reading the Bible himself I'm assuming which is something that the common people could not do at that time because he was a monk in the church he had access to the Scriptures the outside world did not and so he started to read these and compare what the Bible was saying compared to what the church was was teaching and that brings us to our next soundbite from the documentary by S