Cooperation agreement on july tenth in two thousand to take the relationship is now even closer. On todays program where can i get to have mrs stephen pate and whos the director of the new zealand industry and commerce and Industry Office hitting taipei taiwan to share with us to stay off the bow tied to relations between new zealand and taiwan will come to progress to that. Thank you very much thank you for having me on your program and im delighted to get to talk to. Many people around the world about what new zealand and taiwan to be doing to get the recently yes and the silly thing applies here too happy on the program and then the one that sweet discuss those new zealand has always had a very close relationship with taiwan in terms of tree commoners Investment Education culture many areas. But neil gillis issued two landmark agreement Economic Cooperation between the two sides. Bill was signed on to like ten in two thousand and eight. And the name of the agreement is called the agreement between new zealand and the separate customs territory of the taiwan phone call came in and matsui on Economic Cooperation while and stacked social. What is the significance of signing up this Economic Cooperation thank you very much is that denying that the u s trade out of the now full to the base is coated and stick to it at its worst its been a mainstay is certainly a significant development. For new zealand and taiwan. I mean forever nice to sit together. Tom. A mistake as both economic and political significance. Okay i think ultimately economically its probably more significant for new zealand than in taiwan not because taiwan is such a big mac at Telecom New Zealand compared to the small black and a single review of the open market and bought it its its called Economic Significance of both of us and optimistically that i won of course its very significant because its the first such agreement that taiwan has been able to negotiate with an oecd member and economy. With that economy that is doesnt have formal diplomatic relations with taiwan and so do with menace to open up a pot and a pathway to protect others can follow the meds it to me at it was done something thats very significant for both of its use and will stand the negotiation has taken place for the past few years and also lee was conducted in such a way that was scary how long did it the pto Legal Framework and which is the dead will be yours feel somewhat hopeful model for other countries that might be interested in signing something similar but Economic Cooperation agreement with taiwan. Hell meet me to consider when even anyone in the future of sydney we had to find a way of because in the absence of formal government cup and relations in and out we couldnt use to the normal approach. For the sorts of trade agreements or Economic Cooperation agreements in the end of pathway that we found was to negotiate as steward of the tm in this because we have both nimbus of the wto that night and the sorts of agreements identity. It negotiated in terms of wto rules and they refer to the wto standards and wto approaches so it was in that role. Mean mean that all Legal Framework to it all and then use havent succeeded. Using this methodology has a twitter this is them. An approach that others sat up on that income. Im not thinking about it may not be the anyway as of the taiwan can negotiate with another common in the future for the sydney now we printed one way ok and will extended negotiations taking the number of years. The lse human eye it mean that defra said he had discussed about this. And in the league in on the fact is they give us the pain you know periods of points being the negotiation process. There were some differences between the two sides for example on this fee settlement. And then go with dinner at the moment or moments that the two sides held in the way to heal really too far apart on these issues and that we know how the people have problems with people with the ever moments like that they were very few are they waiting until they were very few of. Negotiation handle the sticks that relate to it and took the lead of two years its that last day of this i did actually its one of the fastest that new zealands if the company is certainly time. So we we formally announce that we were stepping into been to this onto the pathway. In october two thousand with them. We had had some discussions before that time preliminary discussions but the oct two thousand and we announce that we would both undertake independent studies this site to see if we wanted to proceed. Now i think on both sides have probably already done a bit with it so those studies didnt take long itll take just one month later knighted in the two thousand uneven. We have formally announce that we would. Take this the knicks to get all of the joint study them and that was sweet we sat down to give up meat and we check to buy cat threw up what might be in the agreement has been talked about what we would want on outside what the side with one hand we built for the bonus that Common Ground peanuts and we tried to start that we have a sensitive issues would be ok and at the end of it consists in fact the new zealand side took the formal decision to proceed of club but i think i won it probably already decided at that point we have slightly different ways of doing the sling. And so the unknown. In july nineteen ninety two thousand total thats when we go once the negotiations for molly and i took a little bit every year. She seemed resigned in july this year with us since they had the ratification process is how we voted for the parliaments in both economies had to re define the neo con and in that it has entered into force. I changed into force on he fist it does seem to be so to just a little over two years and now you asked about the prom with thirty points wee wee. Almost all go a little road with a win would not show with the we can proceed on. Inevitably he has a twist on the areas of difference and its one of negotiation as of now. Ended after a scrum. I think it would be no secret to say they have a new red light to take a Cocoa Products. In a particular what new zealand exports by waitakere Cocoa Products in taiwan. Tom and the seeds of a decent day at time concerns on the part of a can of coke from the ski and then im about to whither they can continue during production. In the face of competition from new zealand me. Now the reality is that with very few real concerns like that. New zealands agriculture and taiwan second coat of very different taiwan has a tropical subtropical agriculture new zealands temperate zone nine the nostril. So we come from each other very well including the native culture and thats why it seems the taiwan would be able to motivate the cocoa quotes from the ceiling. But there were a couple of areas in particular. And if you look at the end the outcome of the year of the negotiations if you go to the teeth of the year that the agreement itself. On that in the areas where im from we have agreed to a long face and one so the current era productions take place over long period of time copious the two areas liquid milk can and do you go but oh no im not sure where that many of the era of us would would of told the developer would be an issue then untied negotiation like this but it was because it is one area where we thought it from is producing the same product in time to teach me in competition with each other and held his hands and so does so. Dell is really a point of contention because of me i can list the real sensitive issues i have to just sew them. There were a few other things but basically the negotiation and very well mostly think about it was a toddler can do with the teams on both sides we can turn on a thousand times yes im up to ultimately weve a successful film. And that given the fact that deal with these negotiations took them to steal altogether fun start to finish. Over two years and then actual official negotiations the lesson that bill fourteen months altogether people signing in july two thousand fifty. And the meal you mention the fact that because the two economies. Actually more complementary to each other saying hell cup competition against. Also hell get to the fact that you know what will be pleasantly surprised but the fact that she said you know this is the first no such Economic Cooperation agreement that i once i did with anybody in a livable a member of oecd has developed a comment. And though the practice hell come on isnt really being involved in this high profile actual mall to actual negotiation for some time. Those that do people feel the New Zealander what kind of surprise folks like myself pleasantly. They were able to move seemed so quickly. You know and since negotiation is such a short period of time. I guess us apart is the only new zealand side to the people were a bit surprise to me that we would during the negotiation an old man. I mistakenly that we did the complete with this politically as it did to me and reached a such a good conclusion. The Indian Government official period of time okay. I would have the time to say that in response to your comment on this is not the first time that taiwan has been involved in technicolor jewels of course im deleting the wto decision is contained in taiwan has some of the five of six that yes that regular units with some of your diplomatic allies set on the particularly from that right there from the wto accession is this which was a very big. The negotiation than that taiwan is pretty neat. Economy inking the wto that im addicted theres a lot of experience they are reading and then we found that when he sat down at the table with taiwans negotiate this. They did this if it all seemed good. And though were looking at me on to regional pictures. We all know ourselves. Will that and then the signing of the aztec help me clean the ceiling tile wall was surly be a very important meal he knows hell first that bobo sites in terms of becoming more active on the regionals. The ahl for example how one sortie. Hell sign the phone with china and also healed knew that new zealand is part of the ppp. I also lost. And that given the fact that note i was also trying to pee more often regional economics family the asia pacific. Oh would you think hell truly from the uks meal your observer no point of view. Dad said this will help both sites into sub branch in l a and b p penetrating deeper into the other markets that might be of interest in the intermediate longer. We shouldnt forget of course that he felt i was also signed with singapore. Heres another very important state that you take in a state has some up from new zealands point of view we negotiate over taiwan. Not as a state towards it i once that is a patient in ttp or us people with things like that. We negotiated for financial reasons. Taiwan is a very important market for new zealand could hide various times in the now tag team died just a tv in both the present pontiff the goods on end. Taiwan is a very reliable in loyal lack of adult meal we had some very longstanding that commercial relationships in this market which are very important to the new zealand high end media was to improve access to pile on the basis of and that we negotiated with the lace um i mean from taiwans what you mean i know the prison than others the pope a lot about taiwans interest in joining the ppp youll very aware of whats going on in the region. And youre very wise to be following that trusty because things are moving a particularly when ppp is is done and with aussie acting of the lease has been important developments. I answered taiwan needs to be thinking about the positioning itself to an end. Although it was a bit in a scene set our own hair and teach them. Neither the least i think the negotiation that the taiwan is now done with the zeal and in with the singapore for example and does it to the experience that i won already. It is and its more than just the negotiators at the table in the scenes id yell you you have to find Team Negotiators from the ministry of economic status but the spirit of these agreements of the complicated than my info but the wide range of government agencies. And and other organizations sometimes im in one of those have to have some experience. Its not in the end you who dont call those agencies nieces are the typical experience of these things and they have to develop that contains a three d experience of anstey and the steep that this helps youve also been caught the knicks terribly them the skill of popcorn might do more to it. And also consulting time. Privately as if were with them with industry with Key Stakeholders through the precious name so that people are surprised away by what to think and i handled it. It used its important to build up experience of reading this well exactly and then youve got the experience that so that you all are a bad day just like this have to pay he said that they come to this agreement or understanding what that is able to them able to see certain that all complete two to approve the its a very important first step while lockheed exactly not to take negotiates the would you take the first break on the program will be back in just two minutes. Fans. I am is. Steve. The welcome back to the second of april then beyond that of wild look on the host read will will continue our conversation with mr stephen pate and acoustic director of the new zealand commerce and Industry Office here in taipei taiwan Steve Gilmore talking about the signing of the stack flew this talk about some of the intangibles built the process of course meal was finished in a little more than the year which is a meal possibly a record. And and that given the fact that the ot will win and then said motivation on both sites but you also some of old tactics that would use but both sides to try to demonstrate a sense of appreciation and sensitivity. Del course the position of your site up some of the more sensitive issues of the bill for example to negotiation. It was very little if gnome much at all in all of the News Coverage of the negotiation itself. And then the signing ceremony in on july ten the pair we took place in the university. You know back home in wellington. And then the deal also be known though very few if any. No senior officials from either side hell presiding at the signing ceremony. Your the one of course represented you know new zealand. And all the scene tentacles key to think that really helped interests of both sides help building up confidence each other. Also keep the negotiations is going for school. Well family is having those were important issues this out but it can i just distinguish between them into two states of issues please some one is question of how much publicity is given to a negotiation as the proceeds in from the negotiators point of view the us has the least the bits of clay. Now im its clear that the year the and to the legislation is another people like that would like to know what is going on. But the reality is you cannot compare to the Trading Commission issue like this on the front page of the newspaper or woman on the internet not it does need a degree of confidentiality of its kind in the in quite a few people are in a bowl and then consulted during the course of of negotiation and its important that both sides trying keeps take Key Stakeholders that hed been in touch with whats happening movement particularly those. In the realm of the vm them the most sensitive issues which maggie. You need to be negotiated very carefully in the final stages but generally speaking its not helpful to have a lot of publicity. The end of this negotiation in that mistake was no different from any other one that the wood to conduct an outcome. So that viewers may be a winner of off the discussion thats going on around cpp for example and they have come there is a more publicity to a pre negotiating round is being held in a different economy in a different city and that will not in our stakeholders are invited to come along so they can be priests during the course of two of the week or ten days of moment to think that around this time. Inside theres a bit more. People want a lot more done with information about whats happening in the third layout being disappointed because uconn conduct a negotiation that way not in the in the case. It was the realm of the straightforward negotiation the wood seats to the peace that stakeholders with being consulted on both sides through the negotiation but we when telling the world it freed me to. We had lists of things that end i dont think people would consider going down. If the point where we came to us today to start is interesting to them with a fixed the bin there was a lot of consultation of people wouldnt wear it with them. A brief two thousand and eight. There was opportunity to question to protect it and now they want it to the issues of the other set of issues is that is really about the fact that in the absence of the government a cup of the relationship and in terms of the one china policy that new zealand operates um we head to the conduct of the mission but differently to how we would do a normal the negotiation time. Ive already mentioned that we had to find a different legal basis is around the distinctive name bishops of the wto to abandon some other theory is we have to observe a certain form mohawk negotiation. So that we couldnt fit to keep what we wanted to do than he i make a distinction between form and substance. The substance was the important stuff inside to achieve that we had to observe certain form. For example gets there was a fitting the key signing ceremony held at them. A Sydney University in wellington a very attractive venue i have to say i tend to view this tea had some relationships with the proceeds. One of their academics that the matter independent study and look like they dont cause and effect of all i had the privilege of signing them rather than say a new zealand he kept the minister was another way in which we had to adopt a different approach because of the circumstances but ultimately we have come up with that of a world class agreement. That no one has objected to go. In fact its being widely welcomed around the world and yet do articles in the economist magazine in the wall street journal about the disagreement in town. No